EPTForeigners > Koreans? - Page 2
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Ver
United States2186 Posts
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The6357
United States1268 Posts
On April 03 2010 07:22 LunarDestiny wrote: I thought kimchi gives you +100 apm while cheese only make you a noob. lol.... | ||
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GogoKodo
Canada1785 Posts
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Piy
Scotland3152 Posts
Even low level b teamers are better than all but a few foreigners could ever be in the curent foreign environment. | ||
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peidongyang
Canada2084 Posts
Anyways, Koreans generally have flawless play. Even if you look at the top foreigners like PJ and F91, you see lots of mistakes in their play. Idra, who has been in Korean has gotten rid of these kinks in his games, but generally ends up doing disadvantage builds or underestimates his opponents. | ||
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Azrael1111
United States550 Posts
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LarJarsE
United States1378 Posts
thats because his style is korean. he plays with koreans. and he is a dweeb. | ||
Carnivorous Sheep
Baa?21245 Posts
On April 03 2010 07:35 Ver wrote: So because Korean pros only play against great strategies that makes them vulnerable to terrible ones? Might need to rethink this a bit. Foreigners win by doing stupid shit cause they're fucking skilless newbie ofc. | ||
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never_Nal
Costa Rica676 Posts
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MorningMusume11
United States3490 Posts
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Cambium
United States16368 Posts
Poll: Nature vs Nurture (Vote): Nature (Vote): Nurture | ||
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zee
201 Posts
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AllFear
44 Posts
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LuCky.
Zimbabwe91 Posts
On April 03 2010 07:27 Insane wrote: The top koreans are way better than the top foreigners. If the top foreigners had had the exact same opportunities / environment to play SC in, then I'm sure we'd have foreign players the same level as people like Flash, Jaedong, etc. It's not like there's something fundamental about Korean DNA that makes you better, it's purely the environment. damit havent you read the news articles recently? it was discovered that flash contained 80% lead in his blood, making himself essentially a piloted robot (oxymoron, but w/e). | ||
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skypig
United States237 Posts
On April 03 2010 08:31 never_Nal wrote: Koreans are better in a lot more aspects than "technique", they know the game a lot better and know how to react to almost every scenario. The only thing I would give foreigners is that we are somehow smarter players, since we don't have our heads in "Robot Mode", but this won't apply to all koreans, for example we can se Sea.Really being such a technical player, its amazing how he won't miss a single unit, micro perfectly and macro too, but he lacks that "smart play" that UpMagic has, and UpMagic lacks the technique Sea.Really has, and that is why Flash is so freaking amazing, he has perfect technique and his play is pretty smart, his decisions and reading of the other player is just flawless This is basically what I'm driving at; I think you're the first person that mentioned it - playing "smarter" can win you games, even if you are technically less solid than your opponent...I don't think I need to give examples of this. In fact, I think that there's sort of an inverse relationship between how much you THINK and how much you ACT in SC, because to consciously think, you have to slow down on your "acting" in case you do something stupid in that "robotic" way that we all know. I definitely think there are foreigners who could out-think Koreans, and use this advantage to win. Koreans DO make stupid mistakes, and they're not just "Oops I forgot to scout my opponent so now I make the wrong units" mistakes...they can make mistakes like "I DID scout my opponent but I don't know how to properly counter this because my Korean practice partners haven't used this against me before." Which is a mistake that can cost you games, no matter how sound your technical play is. Micro can only help so much. Heck, the current featured article on Liquipedia right now has Artosis saying (and I quote): "(...) most people, including pro gamers, don't really understand how to play it against Mech exactly, they don't understand the fact that all you really have to do is protect your economy and mass up." I remember reading that and thinking, "Huh, how ironic - the 'invincible' Koreans don't know how to counter something properly"...and then I remember thinking, "Hey, maybe they're just NOT THINKING because all they know how to do is ROBOT PLAY." Scout build -> initiate counter build. No thinking, just clicking...until they see something that hasn't been drilled into them a thousand times by their practice partners. Which is when they can lose because of not thinking. Obviously I'm exaggerating a bit because you DO see Koreans adapting literally in-game to new things (at least the good Koreans) but my point is that they still have a high amount of "programming" in their gameplay that could be exploited by better-thinking opponents, even though the Koreans would have the physical, technical edge. Also, I never implied that Koreans are "genetically better"; I'm not sure why people are thinking that I did. I admit that their practice environment is much, much better and I admit that you can't judge them because of the pathetic IESF losses...however I'm not willing to admit that they're "perfect" or "the best" by any means. I still think they can be "out-thought" to the point that foreigners (meaning people who don't have access to the Korean practice pool, for all you people that think I'm being racist) can win against them consistently until the Koreans, too, learn to think. StarCraft 2 will hopefully put this theory to the test by forcing Korean-foreigner games on a consistent basis so we can really see who ends up on top. | ||
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Adeeler
United Kingdom764 Posts
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skypig
United States237 Posts
On April 03 2010 07:57 Azrael1111 wrote: Koreans are "isolating" themselves with a majority of competitive Starcraft players, how does that not make them better? Because then that "minority" of competitive StarCraft players will show up with strategies and thought patterns that aren't familiar to the Koreans. Then the Koreans will wish that they weren't so isolated - they'll start losing games because they'll be unused to different strategies and different thought patterns, and be unable to adapt and still play technically perfect simultaneously. Even Flash can be beaten by opponents who out-think and out-smart him, even if his technical play is better...it's not like he never loses, even if he does win the majority of his games. If foreigners can recognize stupid Korean mistakes and act on them, they will win - it's that simple. Even better, if foreigners can exploit Korean assumptions and "popular strategy tendencies", then they can THINK their way to victory...you see Koreans doing this to Koreans; I'm not sure why foreigners can't do the same. | ||
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Nytefish
United Kingdom4282 Posts
A lot of your argument also seems to rely on the fact that when you say "koreans" you're ignoring the best ones, but when you say "foreigner" you're only talking about the very top ones who have had a chance to face koreans. | ||
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LunarDestiny
United States4177 Posts
What are you trying to say? You now say that koreans can exploit assumptions by other koreans and foreigners can't do the same. So why are you saying that foreigners are smarter starcraft players than the koreans are. One way to prove who is the smarter player is to have the smartest Starcraft players from the Koreans and the Foreigner coaching two players of similar skill level and see who wins. | ||
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heroyi
United States1064 Posts
On April 03 2010 09:33 Nytefish wrote: I think you're really confusing intelligent/smart play with risk-taking. Foreigners can snipe a game here and there by doing cheese builds, but they're not winning because they're outsmarting the koreans, cheese is just that difficult to block and varied you can't win every time. A lot of your argument also seems to rely on the fact that when you say "koreans" you're ignoring the best ones, but when you say "foreigner" you're only talking about the very top ones who have had a chance to face koreans. ^^this i had to sign in just to do this. you are describing alot of regular korean players while the top ones like jaedong and flash...well they are good. btw wasnt a lot of korean top players like...oh idk BOXER who pretty much went "LOL GUYZ THATS NOT HOW YOU PLAY TERRAN, LET ME SHOW YOU THE INVINCI MODE." | ||
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