On March 31 2010 21:00 nitdkim wrote: since zergs lay lurkers down in such a way to prevent storm killing more than 1, i think it would be possible to get those lurkers alive throughout the battle (this would be during the time when zerg defends with only lurker/crackling for transition to ultralisks, which is the main focus for this strategy).
Maybe you could use dark archon arbiter teams to recall the lurkers out from the battle to behind your zealot lines. -_- Or maybe you could give up and use unit combinations that aren't ridiculously inefficient.
On March 31 2010 21:05 justiceknight wrote: how about MC the ovy so that they cant get ur observer how about MC a ling and bring it to expo and deny drone how about MC 10 hydras and attempt a hydra break in his 3rd
MCing a lurk is useless imo since zerg always bring ovy with his army ,then ur MCed lurk will die in an instant
well my timing for using MC would be 1a2a3ccc4t(t)(t)(t)
in my head, it would be right when zealot reaches lurker to attack it. toss army would be on top of the lurkers you just mindcontrolled basically.
On March 31 2010 21:00 nitdkim wrote: Totally useless
We are agreed.
Under this topic please also see carrier rush, pure zealot scout, pure corsair scout, mass expansion cannon reaver and much, much more. And if you don't mind sacrificing style then there are hundreds more of entirely boring ways to play really badly. Shall we list those too?
On March 31 2010 21:00 nitdkim wrote: Totally useless
We are agreed.
Under this topic please also see carrier rush, pure zealot scout, pure corsair scout, mass expansion cannon reaver and much, much more. And if you don't mind sacrificing style then there are hundreds more of entirely boring ways to play really badly. Shall we list those too?
fuck that all we need is scouts forget zeals and corsairs scouts scouts scouts
Kwark, may I request that you use this strategy and show us the flaws of the strategy and upload a replay? Someone of your level using it and posting replay would be more convincing it sucks rather than me using it and posting a replay.
Actually, I just want to watch someone good use this lol.
Does nitdkim know everyone else is being sarcastic and that the strategy is completely unviable?
1 dark archon = 250mineral/200 gas, mind control takes 200/200 to research. Which equivalents roughly 2 zealots and 1 high templar. This makes dark archons very resource inefficient. Basically they are only useful for mind controlling expensive units (carriers, BC) maelstroming mass zerg air army or taunting with D level noobs. Using them against lurker is stupid.
Did you know if you use dark archon this way, they are pretty much one time use only? Every time you mind control a lurker, you will also definitely lose the dark archon to hydra fire when it drains its shield (note, mind control range isn't very far.) Dark archons are also gas heavy. In order to make lurker mind controlling effective, you will need quite a few more than 1 dark archon. You also need constant dark templar production to meet the loss of dark archons due to reason mention above. That sort of dark templar production, puts high templar out of question. Mind controlling a few lurkers won't stop your high templar-less army from being overrun by hydra/ling.
Using lurkers in your base defense is even more hilarious. How do you plan to mind control a lurker and then get it to where you want it alive? Lurkers are normally in fields (sorry but i haven't heard of people burrowing one single lurker in the middle of nowhere for you to mind control.), that lurker you mind control will get killed by surrounding lurkers the instant you unburrow it. (also your opponent will start having his overlord around his lurkers when he sees what you are planning.) And if you mind control lurker in battle, please read above.
To summarize: there is no way you can mind control that many lurkers and get them in position, further more there is no way you can survive that long with this sort of unit combination.
On March 31 2010 21:15 nitdkim wrote: Kwark, may I request that you use this strategy and show us the flaws of the strategy and upload a replay? Someone of your level using it and posting replay would be more convincing it sucks rather than me using it and posting a replay.
Actually, I just want to watch someone good use this lol.
Why would Kwark do that? He deconstructed the entire idea in his first post.
Watch the hour-long Stork vs. GGplay match on Andromeda if you want to see mind control vs. Zerg.
On March 31 2010 21:22 phaleos wrote: Does nitdkim know everyone else is being sarcastic and that the strategy is completely unviable?
1 dark archon = 250mineral/200 gas, mind control takes 200/200 to research. Which equivalents roughly 2 zealots and 1 high templar. This makes dark archons very resource inefficient. Basically they are only useful for mind controlling expensive units (carriers, BC) maelstroming mass zerg air army or taunting with D level noobs. Using them against lurker is stupid.
Did you know if you use dark archon this way, they are pretty much one time use only? Every time you mind control a lurker, you will also definitely lose the dark archon to hydra fire when it drains its shield (note, mind control range isn't very far.) Dark archons are also gas heavy. In order to make lurker mind controlling effective, you will need quite a few more than 1 dark archon. You also need constant dark templar production to meet the loss of dark archons due to reason mention above. That sort of dark templar production, puts high templar out of question. Mind controlling a few lurkers won't stop your high templar-less army from being overrun by hydra/ling.
Using lurkers in your base defense is even more hilarious. How do you plan to mind control a lurker and then get it to where you want it alive? Lurkers are normally in fields (sorry but i haven't heard of people burrowing one single lurker in the middle of nowhere for you to mind control.), that lurker you mind control will get killed by surrounding lurkers the instant you unburrow it. (also your opponent will start having his overlord around his lurkers when he sees what you are planning.) And if you mind control lurker in battle, please read above.
To summarize: there is no way you can mind control that many lurkers and get them in position, further more there is no way you can survive that long with this sort of unit combination.
the timing of mindcontrol research would be towards when zerg would be Lurker/Ling based army in hive tech. if they go defiler/lings only, then D.archon would be useful for feedback also. I didn't intend for this strategy to be early game when zerg would have lurker/hydra army.
On March 31 2010 20:23 KwarK wrote: Yeah, if only Protoss had a unit that couldn't be seen without detection that could do a load of damage under swarm. That'd tip the balance. It'd be worth sacrificing 2 dts to make a darchon in order to get that kind of unit.
On March 31 2010 20:53 KwarK wrote: Mind controlled lurker, damage recieved from cracklings, 7, damage dealt to cracklings, 17. Hp 125. By my estimation about 4 cracklings could take him down. Cracklings have absurd attack speed and because he'd lose any ranged upgrades it'd be 3 hits to kill a single zergling. Explain to me how it survives long enough to do 3 hits. Of course, if he was behind your army he'd function much like a reaver, throwing out splash damage in support of the zealots. But given he's surrounded by zerg he'll be lucky if he even fires once. All you're doing in battle is trading 200 energy for a lurker kill. You're better off casting two maelstroms as those can really mess up the pathing of units trying to enter the battle behind them and clump units into storm bait.
There is absolutely nothing good about this idea.
Here's the missing piece!
Once you get the lurker, you hallucinate it, so the opponent doesn't know which one is real, and makes the real lurker that much more effective. (Can hallucinated lurkers burrow?)
On March 31 2010 21:00 nitdkim wrote: since zergs lay lurkers down in such a way to prevent storm killing more than 1, i think it would be possible to get those lurkers alive throughout the battle (this would be during the time when zerg defends with only lurker/crackling for transition to ultralisks, which is the main focus for this strategy).
Kwark, I see many of your points but I'm not in anyway trying to say that I'm right or that you are wrong. Of course this is a very (very, very) flawed strategy since no one uses it but I think it would be on the similar level as Terran nuke rush. Totally useless but epic.
The nuke is near useless, BUT epic because it's a freaking nuke. It makes a big shiny BOOM.
hahaha this thread is gold, it's like that one strategy I read before I saw team liquid..
goes by the lines, if you use scout and corsairs at the same time you will be an unstoppable force. you disruption web all ground units then you kill them with your scout. Incredible idea!
The main problem protoss has versus Zergs is the fact that they are being overrun. Some extra splash damage support like lurkers would obviously be very nice. The main problem I see here is that sacrificing units to tech up to DTs is already bad if you aren't able to use the DTs for anything purposeful. Then sacrificing your first two DTs for an Dark Archon. This will put you slightly behind. And the question here is whetever the MC of the Lurker(s) will make up for this disadvantage?
I would like to see this being tested. If you can get a few Lurkers throughout the game they would be able to pick out quite a bit of lings if you make sure to play them like Reavers, as Kwark said earlier.
On March 31 2010 21:00 nitdkim wrote: Totally useless
We are agreed.
Under this topic please also see carrier rush, pure zealot scout, pure corsair scout, mass expansion cannon reaver and much, much more. And if you don't mind sacrificing style then there are hundreds more of entirely boring ways to play really badly. Shall we list those too?
On March 31 2010 20:33 Manifesto7 wrote: It is because you are still reading general. I thought I told you to cut that shit out. It is for your health yo.
Why did you post here and leave this open? Disappointed
EPT
