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Yeh, because everyone thought SC had potential when it was released on day one.
Please, please PLEASE get your heads out of your asses. This is a BETA. It's not the finished product. All you need to see is promise, not the final frigging product.
Even debating this is head-poundingly stupid. Starcraft might not have taken a decade to get good, but it certainly took a few years (Remember the mighty 1.08 update?).
Esports isn't driven on the quality of the game. It's driven by sponsors and spectators. Remove one or the other and the game suffers. Naturally, if you have a mediocre title then people lose interest - and so do sponsors.
But does anyone for a fraction of a second really think that SC2 is going to suffer from a lack of community interest? I doubt it.
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17 years gaming experiance, lets listen guys.
Your arguments fall short, and I will reiterate what everyone else has said - we're 1 month into a closed beta game, get some brains and realise this isn't the final product.
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These threads are kinda lame, in my opinion. I think the only correct answer is "let's pick this discussion back up in a year". The rest is a bunch of half-formed ideas backed with little to no actual talking points.
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starcraft 2 is AMAZING for a beta , can u imagine the actual game? AMAZING
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i agree with the post about e-sports that is, i just hope the game is fun.
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Dumping on StarCraft 2 at this point is just insane. It's already a great game, in BETA stage no less.
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SC1 had hard counters. Honestly if you don't know that then you shouldn't commenting on the whole SC1 > SC2 as an esport thing.
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Mostly all of your points are wrong.
Im sorry you are so short sighted and ignorant.
SC1 didnt become a major esport straight outta beta it took years to patch and get it to where it is today.
Is SC2 going to reach the same high spot as a major esport game straight out of the beta? Of course not thats just common sense.
Is SC2 going to make it in the world of esports? 99% chance of HELL YES.. and why??
1. THE MOST IMPORTANT FACT!!! - THE GAME DEVELOPER STANDS BEHINDS THE GAME AND ITS COMMUNITY AND ALSO WANTS IT TO BE COME A ESPORT GAME. Hardly any other game has that going for it. So with that the game has a huge chance to succeed as an esport.
2. Read number 1 again. They have added TONS of great things already to make the game easily accessible for spectators IE the features when watching replays. Lots of good tools to work with, and you have to expect them to work and grow those features as time goes on.
3. Lots of Pro Leagues/ Teams are already picking the game up and running events!! and its only in the beta stages!! Open your eyes kid the shift has already started. Ex: MLG, ESL, WCG, Zotac,.... do i need to go on?
kids now a days dont really know what esport is anymore.
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I think the only thing that isn't evolved in Starcraft 2 is the player. It's impossible to make such definitive accusations about a game that develops around player understanding and strategy, two things that arguably take years to develop. If you look at the evolution of Starcraft and its players, you'll see that it took a very long time to become what it is today. There's a very drawn out timeline. For example, there were periods where players like Boxer could excel with creative strategy, and then there came periods where players would only excel with very mechanical play that required endless hours of monotonous practice to compete. How radically different is that? All these things happened and developed over years. I can't fault people for expecting Starcraft 2 to become what Starcraft 1 is immediately since both games carry the same title, but these games carry a very delicate balance that takes time to understand, and the games are very different. The level of micromanagement you expect to see in Starcraft 2 can't even begin until people begin to understand core game mechanics, something which is just beginning to happen now.
As a spectator sport, the game will only be as interesting as the players are developed, and people are basically beginners at the moment regardless of their "gosu" backgrounds.
I just wish people could stop being so declarative about the state of the game. Inexperienced players and strategies does not mean that the game is poor, less monotony in macro does not mean that the game is easier, and just because people play and think about the game, at this time, in black and white terms with hard counters does not mean that the game is about hard counters. Give the players time to evolve.
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He is right about everything, it doesn't take a genius to figure that out. Look at the way SC2 is being made.... SC was a complete fluke from a programming point of view, and it is a perfect game now because of the core content and the 30 patches came later slowly perfected it. All the silly bugs remained in the game turned out to be completely perfect for the game.
What they doing in SC2 is doing hard counter. They are trying to make it perfect forcefully . When you force something to happen it won't happen. Even if you get all the originall SC team together they won't make a game better than SC.
Comparing beta makes no sense at all, the main point to compare the core content of the game.
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All threads like this do is make me angry that I'm not in the BETA, and that people so overly disappointed with SC2 at the moment get to play and whine about it.
:'(
It's like I'm trapped in my own personal death trap designed by the Joker.
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BW wasnt a hardcore esport when it was a BETA. Thx for making yet another one of these threads.
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I agree on point number one. Espesially protoss, the race that actually used to have the most basic and allways used units like zealot and dragoon, now only have those counter units like immortals and colossi. Actually, this way a protoss can easily crush any ground army with double cost/supply. This can make macro useless to a certain extent. What good is it to have more units if your opponent can assrape them with only 3-4 of the "right units".
This is like running marines up a ramp with 3 lurkers and swarm on top of it.
Point number two has a bit of truth in it, but I dont think if you think about spectators, them most of them - being young anbd interested in PC games - will choose the better looking game rather than the deeper and more demanding one.
In general I do not think we have enough experience with the game to really judge it yet. And if Blizzard fixes number one, I don't see the problem. By the way, it might be better if Korea does not give a fuck about SC2.
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The only problem I have with the OP, and with many people's reaction, is the tendency towards absolutes in their judgements.
I think a lot of the points/concerns you have are reasonable to an extent, but you take everything to the extreme. It isn't just you, though, it is lots of people.
Ex.
Potential problem: A lot of the units in SC2 are just as effective without micro as they are with it.
Assertion made in TL forums: "micro is DEAD. SC2 suckssssss!!!!1!1!!1!!"
Ex.
Potential problem: The units can be hard to distinguish in battle.
Assertion made in TL forums: "I can't tell what is going on no one will ever watch this game, it will never be an esport"
etc. you get my point.
Lets just point out potential problems rather than try to decide in the next week whether or not SC2 is a success or failure.
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Well it is beta, but what other starting point can they start at other than hard counters? There is really no way to evolve into a soft counter game without some level of hard countering. It is BETA and patches are coming out to address these issues. It's possible that some stuff that make it newbie friendly could be gone tomorow, and some graphic changes could come tomorow as well, you never know because it is in BETA! This game is great so far in BETA and I can imagine it will only get better and more challenging.
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All of our post say one thing you can't judge one thing by first impressions. And if as you say you have been watching "a ton" of streams and playing some games.. you're terribly terribly blind dude. And I'm not being a fanboy right now (I am but this is not fanboyism) you give nothing the benefit of the doubt and fail to see all the awesome additions and new sides to the game. Ok, i'm done with this thread.. too much adrenaline..
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I think sc2 will have a much bigger e-sports scene than sc:bw did/does in the USA.
Yea, I know that is not saying much.
As for Korea, yeah you are probably right.
I am sure it will be picked up by the MLG tournaments, and Blizzard will probably hold a yearly tournament like they have done for WoW arena.
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I'm having a hell of a time in Starcraft 2 and I'm just watching other people play. It's fun and enjoyable. The battles aren't over that quickly and I still feel like commentators have enough time to say what they want. I'm finding it exciting and an enjoyable use of my time. I agree that Zotac helped show this. It was so much fun to watch. I'm sticking around.
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The OP has some valid points. I don't understand why everyone is bashing him in this thread.
The game is intended to be easier. You thing the game will be a success if you watch a FPVOD of a pro and you know there is not a chance in the world you can reach that level?
Blizzard had learned through the success of WoW.
Dumb down the game so everyone can compete and participate = more copies sold.
If you've played beta you know this is true, I can micro my lings and build 12 more in 1 sec from 3 hatcheries at the same time, something I could never-ever do in SC1 and my jaw dropped everytime I saw a Jaedong FPVOD.
This is not the case in SC2. I watch CowGoMoo's replay and easily mimic his style. This will not make the game a true esport. Popurality =/= good e-sport.
It might become popular like WOW which is boring, shallow, unskillful and god forgive me but it's the most piece of shit spectator competitive game ever created by man. Don't you wonder why it is so popular?
People don't like hard games. Dota > war3 is a fantastic example. It's the human nature and that is what Blizzard is trying to take advantage of.
In my opinion the original starcraft/diablo developers took the genius and magic with them when they left Blizzard, just compare the sound design... 11 years ago they made better unit and combat sounds.
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Ahh the daily whining post about SC2. Probably should get used to it.
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EPT
