Actually, the final was an epic game in itself. Look at the speed of Jaedong's reactions when his overlord was sniped by marines. Look at how the lings nearly got into the base. Look at Fantasy when he pulled his SCVs to block the lings and went further to SCV bunker rush him.
Fantasy felt pretty safe pulling a bunker rush. He still had Bisu to back him up on Super Ace and what I think this match was supposed to do was mindfuck Jaedong more than win.
Fantasy pulled off this win perfectly, but the intention was not to win. It was to weaken Jaedong mentality against Bisu. Had Fantasy lost this match, he would have been recorded as the key weapon in defeating Jaedong, by weakening Jaedong so badly Bisu made mincemeat out of him.
Instead, Fantasy won this.
Don't judge Fantasy as relying on the cheese to win. SKT's grand plan always has contingencies and the plan went: "Fantasy will bunker rush Jaedong. He will 1) win or 2) lose but weaken Jaedong enough to let Bisu win".
Why would winning a game weaken him at all? And sorry i don't think you are going to convince many people it was an epic game.
I think you'll agree that the drama and the games of Boxer v Yellow was epic even though it was 3 x Bunker rush.
Winning against Fantasy will not weaken hm in theory, but the method with which Bisu played his game today (proxy in Perfectman's base) and Fantasy's eptitude towards cheese would have Oz confused and Jaedong playing ultra-safe against Bisu. Which Bisu can use to comfortably go into his metagame and overpower Jaedong's economy.
That was a fake FE by Fantasy and proxy rax ... Couldn't all of you haters see that supply depot and 2nd rax coming up right in front of the nat? It was a brilliant play by fantasy, smart as hell. I'm not saying this in the shoes of a SKT fan but a Starcraft fan in general. I'm pretty sure seeing the fake wall made JD go for lair and expo. Fantasy scouted that and executed a perfect push with his SCVs + hidden marines. This game actually reminded me of Casy's fake FE against July ...
Like someone has already said it before, JD is a better player, but fantasy is smarter.
Those flaming fantasy can be divided into 3 groups: bitter JD/Oz's fanboys, Americans who stayed up till 7 in the morning and were disappointed because it wasn't an hour long ace, and angry trolls who just simply hopped onto the flaming bandwagon.
On August 08 2009 23:14 Nylan wrote: I feel so bad for Jaedong as a person, I really admire his heart and dedication. However, I'm absolutely ecstatic to see Oz coach's one-dimensional strategy fail.
What else can you do as Oz's coach though? I mean he literally has no other options with how his team is. There's no way that he or anyone in his position would risk sending out someone like Hiya or Backho with the shape they are in to win a finals ace match, when you have someone playing so much above them like Jaedong on your team.
Coach Cho's folly isn't that he relies on Jaedong. His folly is that he doesn't play anyone but Jaedong, Backho, Lomo, and HiyA. That's the true problem. It's unlike CJ who plays literally anyone and that's why you having rising stars like Skyhigh, Effort, and Movie (lol, not movie nvm) compared to absolute nobodies like... well, I can't even remember thier names. Except Perfectman. A lot of people here were pretty lax about Perfectman losing to Bisu cheese but if he had played more during PL maybe he would've won the game. If Oz had one more win today and not have required Ace match for set 2, they would've gotten a different map, fantasy might not have been played, and Jaedong could've won it against Bisu. But instead, Perfectman couldn't detect the cheese nor the DT follow-up due to inexperience and it could have cost Oz the gold.
Well, that part I agree with. I see a lot of promise in both Perfectman and Killer (like my signature ;p) and I don't understand why Coach Cho doesn't give them more playtime, and instead throws in random people like ggaemo or Young. I'm hoping that maybe he will now, after they've proven they can play well enough to win or at least keep up even in the finals. Oz needs a change and needs new rising stars, something to give them a chance at evolving into a better team, otherwise they'll never improve as a team because I honestly don't see their best players behind jaedong such as Hiya or Backho or Lomo improving a great deal anytime soon.
Obviously for people who aren't SKT1 or Fantasy fans the last game is going to be a little hard to put into perspective. It's not so much that Fantasy won using that strategy, it's that Jaedong didn't rise to the occasion. It's the same feeling I had after YellOw vs Boxer 2004. It's a hollow feeling T_T.
Oh well, to the victor go the spoils. Congratulations SKT1
I WAS NOT CHEERING FOR JAEDONG BUT I SURE AM MAD HE LOST.
No matter how you justify it whenever I see people complaining about people winning with "cheese" it's pretty much always a sign of them simply unable to accept a loss.
Cheese or not, and so what ? SKT wins. That's all. If your team can cheese and always manage to win, it's ok because the final purpose in PRO SC is to win. Boxer has cheesed and won games, he's the Emporor and everyone respects him for everything he brought to eSports. But he won't brought anything if he wasn't able to win and to win, he had to cheese. Fantasy played a great series. He showed that he can recover from a cheese by adapting his strategy and macro well in order to rebalance the game in the end. He then showed that he is ready to go all in and win a match even with great pressure on him. He cheesed against Jaedong, a real master in micro management and he cheesed in a Ace match against the best player in the world. This is why I love Starcraft and this is the beauty of sport in general : to be ready to take risk, to be ready to go all in, to be ready to make everything possible to catch the final victory.
Fantasy deserves his MVP, definitely. Oz played well but SKT played better. That's it.
On August 08 2009 23:32 infinity2k9 wrote: Why would winning a game weaken him at all? And sorry i don't think you are going to convince many people it was an epic game.
Actually it was pretty epic and ballsy. Fantasy went into the game knowing what he was going to do just like Hiya who went early gas for his 2port wraiths. Both misled the opponent when scouted and then hit them when not expected. The difference is that early overlord Jaedong lost was too important and Jaedong couldnt defend after that.
On August 08 2009 23:35 economist_ wrote: scout and you dont get cheesed, that is pretty simple eh?
The question is. How can you guess about the good direction of scouting ?
I don't remember fantasy's exact barracks positioning but if JD sent a drone scout to the bottom main it probably would have seen the rax either on the way to that main or on the path from that main to fantasy's main.
On August 08 2009 23:35 economist_ wrote: scout and you dont get cheesed, that is pretty simple eh?
The question is. How can you guess about the good direction of scouting ?
I don't remember fantasy's exact barracks positioning but if JD sent a drone scout to the bottom main it probably would have seen the rax either on the way to that main or on the path from that main to fantasy's main.
Fantasy not revealing his hidden marines also basically drew in Jaedong to see what he could do with lings at the choke instead of scouting.
On August 08 2009 22:44 2ne1fan wrote: does anyone know where this is actually taking place (in korea, but which city?)
Busan
Thanks! That's a kickass bridge, imma visit it one day.
Bit off topic, but gwanganli is my hometown. But I have yet to see the bridge due to military service D:
Also, boxer said, in regard to JD: "me, oov, and fantasy practiced this build our asses off, so even though JD, who is kespa#1, couldn't win because it was like playing team meele."
Honestly after seeing fantasy won I thought fuck JD never had a chance when the game started, the strategy is just too good and unexpected.
Just makes me even sadder that JD didn't win against Hyuk...
Oz lost and thats all. And it´s about time to Coach Cho to think deeply into what´s going on into Oz, because JD has not been supported enough from teammates
I mean, this is same case as happened with Flash about a year and a half ago, when everything into KTF was about Flash winning, and praise for other teammates to win another matches. KTF learnt the lesson and supported him with Luxury, and then forGG this season
Free agent agency will be open soon, so better Coach Cho make a good deal to get some other companions, or JD might be start thinking about a team change in the future
On August 08 2009 23:35 economist_ wrote: scout and you dont get cheesed, that is pretty simple eh?
The question is. How can you guess about the good direction of scouting ?
I don't remember fantasy's exact barracks positioning but if JD sent a drone scout to the bottom main it probably would have seen the rax either on the way to that main or on the path from that main to fantasy's main.
Actually since his first Ovie scouted Fantasy's main, I don't think he would have wanted to waste another scouting drone just to make sure there wasn't any proxy rax coming up.
Can't wait for the VODs to come up ... I really want to see if it's because of the fake wall that led JD to expand and tech to lair ...
EPT
