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Germany / USA16648 Posts
On August 07 2009 23:55 okum wrote:Show nested quote +On August 07 2009 23:44 TwoToneTerran wrote:
Jaedong, honestly, probably would've won if he'd gone Mutas for massive harass. Fantasy had like no turrets and a weak MnM force. But he fell into the trapping that is the double gas expo. That's my feeling too. In either case, the Guardians didn't do much (he killed what, 10 marines with them?) except waste resources. Interestingly, JD has gone Muta very little recently. Did he use them at all vs Canata? Yeah on Heartbreak Ridge, didn't do him much good tho
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Jaedong, honestly, probably would've won if he'd gone Mutas for massive harass. Fantasy had like no turrets and a weak MnM force. But he fell into the trapping that is the double gas expo.
Fantasy had no turrets and weak MnM force exactly because he knew muta isn't coming from scouting and screwed zerg economy at the beginning. In any case, muta play would result in completely different game.
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On August 07 2009 23:59 Nylan wrote:
My thoughts on this LR thread:
Games 1 and 3:
"OMG <SKT Player> sucks! WTF are they doing? LOL EPIC FAIL!!!!
...
...
...where'd all those units come from?"
Game 2:
"Canata sucks" ---> Lomo sucks Canata wins
Game 4:
GALAXY CRUSHERRRRRRRRRRR (w/ 40% of posts being about Hyuk's ceremony)
Happy Jaedong Week
Jesus, your team won and you're still butthurt?
God damn fanboys.
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The bunch of useless guardians, and the two defilers sniped by irradiate + siege fire before being able to cast swarm were the two most obvious causes of Jaedong's failure. But even if the latter didn't happen he would've lost anyway, Fantasy was just macroing too heavily at this point for him to handle with his declining econ. Really oovish, made me happy.
Looking forward to tomorrow, same time, same place, and maybe same result if Hyuk plays the game of his life. Is Hyuk going to be the new Frozean ? I BELIEVE.
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On August 07 2009 23:44 TwoToneTerran wrote:+ Show Spoiler +On August 07 2009 23:21 alt.tday wrote:
Can anyone tell me what happened in Fantasy vs Jaedong game???? I just watched it but I dont get why JD lost.... The same reason July lost to Flash -- outsider is a misleading map. The double gas expo really entices zerg, and if you can safely grab it it seems like the best idea. So, Jaedong defends the bunker rush, putting Fantasy massively on the defensive as Jaedong's lings now control the map. It's hard to break a hard turtling Terran, so Jaedong did what most zergs would do -- go for the enticing, but hard to defend double gas. The double gas is a double edged sword, though (haha, pun) -- it doesn't give you any more gas than your main or nat overall (2 2500s instead of 1 5000), but it allows you to mine at double the speed for a bit of a heavy mineral investment. This is good for fast teching, and a quick, high gas unit composition. With this, you'll see most zergs either massively pump Hydra Lurk off the extra gas, or tech up to hive and go for a specific hive tech strategy. The problem is, once you've teched to hive, and gotten hivetech buildings and upgrades, those Gas geyes aren't going to go a lot further. You misleadingly feel like you've got tons of gas to spare though, because neither of your main or nat geysers are going empty any time soon. And that's just it -- you do have plenty of gas. But Hivetech units aren't just gas heavy, they take a lot of minerals too. Jaedong tried to go for a nearly pure hivetech army off just 2 base's worth of minerals for most of the game, before he could push out against the MnM blob and take expos with actual minerals. It seems almost inevitable that if a zerg who grabs the double gas doesn't take a turtle terran down with his quick, high gas army, then the Terran will win. It's way too easy for Terran to set up shop at the mineral onlys, and the main and nat are plenty of gas for tons of Vessels and a sizeable tank force. Jaedong, honestly, probably would've won if he'd gone Mutas for massive harass. Fantasy had like no turrets and a weak MnM force. But he fell into the trapping that is the double gas expo.
Tx for the insightful reply. ^_^
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4-0. This the number of sets that I won against my gf today on PingPong.
YEAH SKT YEAH!
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On August 07 2009 20:07 EvilTeletubby wrote:Show nested quote +On August 07 2009 20:02 jtan wrote:
klazart is currently over-simplifying last game
jaedong simply lost because of guardians
.............. Hahaha, oh god, he's so awful...
Lol, yeah. Tell him to quit plagiarizing TL's LR thread.
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On August 08 2009 00:01 1984 wrote:Show nested quote +Jaedong, honestly, probably would've won if he'd gone Mutas for massive harass. Fantasy had like no turrets and a weak MnM force. But he fell into the trapping that is the double gas expo. Fantasy had no turrets and weak MnM force exactly because he knew muta isn't coming from scouting and screwed zerg economy at the beginning. In any case, muta play would result in completely different game.
Yes, the screwed economy that afforded to fast tech straight to hive, guardians, and defilers.
His economy was fine, hell Fantasy's was behind before Jaedong just let him macro up.
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SKT always sweeps Oz. Im not surprised at all.
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I really want a super ace match between Jaedong and Bisu!
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On August 08 2009 00:09 TwoToneTerran wrote:Show nested quote +On August 08 2009 00:01 1984 wrote:Jaedong, honestly, probably would've won if he'd gone Mutas for massive harass. Fantasy had like no turrets and a weak MnM force. But he fell into the trapping that is the double gas expo. Fantasy had no turrets and weak MnM force exactly because he knew muta isn't coming from scouting and screwed zerg economy at the beginning. In any case, muta play would result in completely different game. Yes, the screwed economy that afforded to fast tech straight to hive, guardians, and defilers. His economy was fine, hell Fantasy's was behind before Jaedong just let him macro up.
Agreed. Jaedong had 5-6 mutas out before Fantasy's wraiths were done, despite the hive tech investment and double gas hatchery. Jaedong lost few drones to the bunker rush, although the mass sunkens probably did hurt quite a bit.
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konadora
Singapore66364 Posts
FUCK YES FUCK YES FUCK YES FUCK YES FUCK YES FUCK YES FUCK YES FUCK YES FUCK YES FUCK YES FUCK YES FUCK YES FUCK YES FUCK YES FUCK YES FUCK YES FUCK YES FUCK YES FUCK YES FUCK YES FUCK YES FUCK YES FUCK YES FUCK YES
OH MY GOD
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On August 08 2009 00:10 Gumbo wrote:
I really want a super ace match between Jaedong and Bisu!
Then tell SKT to stop playing so well 
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Yes, the screwed economy that afforded to fast tech straight to hive, guardians, and defilers.
His economy was fine, hell Fantasy's was behind before Jaedong just let him macro up.
Actually tecking to hive is much less expensive than massing mutas, and at the time he got hive new hatcheries pumped in. Imo Jaedong had weaker economy in early game because so many drons were moving around the map instead of mining for a really long time.
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Bisu seems inconsistent lately. You cant just trust him fighting in super ace match w/ Jaedong.
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On August 07 2009 23:44 TwoToneTerran wrote:Show nested quote +On August 07 2009 23:21 alt.tday wrote:
Can anyone tell me what happened in Fantasy vs Jaedong game???? I just watched it but I dont get why JD lost.... It seems almost inevitable that if a zerg who grabs the double gas doesn't take a turtle terran down with his quick, high gas army, then the Terran will win. It's way too easy for Terran to set up shop at the mineral onlys, and the main and nat are plenty of gas for tons of Vessels and a sizeable tank force. Jaedong, honestly, probably would've won if he'd gone Mutas for massive harass. Fantasy had like no turrets and a weak MnM force. But he fell into the trapping that is the double gas expo.
Lol, which game have you seen? Fantasy didn't turtle at all, he is very agressive through the whole game! He outexpands Jeadong at mid game and gathers enough resources advantage for the last tank push. And Fantasy doesn't have many turrets because Jeadong does't go mutas harass not the other way around lol.
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On August 07 2009 23:42 ghostWriter wrote:
Jaedong skipped mid-level zerg play (lurker AND muta) and went straight for hive tech (guards, then ultra defiler ling). fantasy's micro and macro and imba tanks won him the game. Also, a lucky defiler snipe at the end (irradiate + sieged tank attack) ended Jaedong. If he got those two dark swarms in, it could have been 4-1 sktt1 instead of 4-0
LOL, LUCKY? You think that the snipe was LUCKY?
Regardless of whether Fantasy sniped it or not, it's sad to think that anyone would want to trivialize the ending battle with luck.
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On August 08 2009 00:28 geod wrote:Show nested quote +On August 07 2009 23:44 TwoToneTerran wrote:On August 07 2009 23:21 alt.tday wrote:
Can anyone tell me what happened in Fantasy vs Jaedong game???? I just watched it but I dont get why JD lost.... It seems almost inevitable that if a zerg who grabs the double gas doesn't take a turtle terran down with his quick, high gas army, then the Terran will win. It's way too easy for Terran to set up shop at the mineral onlys, and the main and nat are plenty of gas for tons of Vessels and a sizeable tank force. Jaedong, honestly, probably would've won if he'd gone Mutas for massive harass. Fantasy had like no turrets and a weak MnM force. But he fell into the trapping that is the double gas expo. Lol, which game have you seen? Fantasy didn't turtle at all, he is very agressive through the whole game! He outexpands Jeadong at mid game and gathers enough resources advantage for the last tank push. And Fantasy doesn't have many turrets because Jeadong does't go mutas harass not the other way around lol.
Um, expanding to your backyard for the first 2/3rds of the game before going for the second main is not aggressive. Fantasy was turtling -- he had a factory and all his tanks shoved inside his nat up until the last like 5 minutes of the game. He pushed out as soon as he had a macro'd up army, but the dude turtled after the Bunker Rush -- for good reason! "Turtling" isn't a bad thing, it's what you have to do to stay alive after failing an 8rax.
Also 'turtling' and pushing out aren't mutually exclusive. But when you've got a third of your supply in tanks sitting behind a wall at your nat, that's pretty turtled.
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 Happy happy.
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On August 08 2009 00:15 konadora wrote:
FUCK YES FUCK YES FUCK YES FUCK YES FUCK YES FUCK YES FUCK YES FUCK YES FUCK YES FUCK YES FUCK YES FUCK YES FUCK YES FUCK YES FUCK YES FUCK YES FUCK YES FUCK YES FUCK YES FUCK YES FUCK YES FUCK YES FUCK YES FUCK YES
OH MY GOD
NO CURSE THIS TIME
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EPT
