EPT[SPL] Playoffs - CJ Entus vs Samsung Khan Day 2 - Page 130
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Avidkeystamper
United States8556 Posts
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dekuschrub
United States2069 Posts
i would still take yarnc over great and kwanro. and if lux ever gets good again hahah | ||
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Avidkeystamper
United States8556 Posts
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hacpee
United States752 Posts
On July 27 2009 14:11 dekuschrub wrote: great isnt a ZvZer?? ummm hes pretty good. effort is JD level now though so he embarrasses people at that shit I've been following great for a while and alot of his wins are strategic wins rather than outmicroing. He's kinda like oversky but with decent micro. He still makes lots of muta micro mistakes though. | ||
Hot_Bid
Braavos36401 Posts
On July 27 2009 14:25 dekuschrub wrote: hahaha ace is completely missing the point the only "clutch" non effort CJ wins were iris>fbh and movie>Juni. The other wins that CJ had that contributed to them advancing over khan were entirely win by effort, which he had 3 of. How can you argue that he didnt carry the team? I think its stupid that people are saying "omg CJ is all Effort!" and mean it as some sort of an insult. Every single good team will have a similar win distribution. Whether its Leta, Jangbi, Bisu, Jaedong, etc. EVERY team has one transcendent player. And every team's goal is to get two wins so their guy can play ace. None of these players are a sure thing against each other. Combined stats of the first two playoff rounds: jangbi 4-1 miracle 3-0 stork 3-2 odin 1-0 great 2-3 yoon 0-1 juni 0-3 fbh 0-4 effort 6-1 Skyhigh 3-1 Iris 2-2 Movie 2-3 Kwanro 1-3 Savior 0-1 Nbs 0-1 Much 0-2 If January had sent Jangbi against Effort, the final two records would have been Effort 6-1 or 5-2, and Jangbi 5-1 or 4-2. Are you saying Samsung is "carried" just as badly by Jangbi? It's only one game difference. If Effort had lost that final game, the distributions would've been basically exactly the same. Are you saying the difference between "carried by Effort omfg!!!" and "carried just as much as Samsung was carried by Jangbi" was only one win? | ||
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NicolBolas
United States1388 Posts
On July 27 2009 14:25 dekuschrub wrote: the only "clutch" non effort CJ wins were iris>fbh and movie>Juni. The other wins that CJ had that contributed to them advancing over khan were entirely win by effort, which he had 3 of. How can you argue that he didnt carry the team? Nobody's arguing that Effort didn't carry the team. The point they're trying to make is that CJ doesn't normally play this way. For whatever reason, the normally reliable players on CJ all decided to suck for two days (or one day, in the case of Iris). When the rest of your team starts to suck, your big guy has to step it up and get the job done. That's what being the big guy is all about. But CJ is not Effort + some other guys; that's not how they play or strategize. It just worked out this way. Look at the games vs. Sparkyz. Effort got taken down by Yarnc in the set that CJ won. And when it came down to the Ace match, did Coach Cho put in Effort, their star player? No; he put in Movie, who despite having lost his game that night proceeded to whip Leta's ass. And Coach Cho had planned all along to put Movie in the Ace match. Why? Because Leta would be expecting vZ, and he wouldn't be expecting vP. You think OZ would ever dare to put anyone other than Jaedong in the Ace match? Effort clearly carried CJ to victory vs. Khan. But that is not the normal way CJ works. The rest of the team started failing, so Effort had to put his balls on the table. | ||
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Batibot
Philippines348 Posts
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The Storyteller
Singapore2486 Posts
On July 27 2009 15:29 NicolBolas wrote: Nobody's arguing that Effort didn't carry the team. The point they're trying to make is that CJ doesn't normally play this way. For whatever reason, the normally reliable players on CJ all decided to suck for two days (or one day, in the case of Iris). When the rest of your team starts to suck, your big guy has to step it up and get the job done. That's what being the big guy is all about. But CJ is not Effort + some other guys; that's not how they play or strategize. It just worked out this way. Look at the games vs. Sparkyz. Effort got taken down by Yarnc in the set that CJ won. And when it came down to the Ace match, did Coach Cho put in Effort, their star player? No; he put in Movie, who despite having lost his game that night proceeded to whip Leta's ass. And Coach Cho had planned all along to put Movie in the Ace match. Why? Because Leta would be expecting vZ, and he wouldn't be expecting vP. You think OZ would ever dare to put anyone other than Jaedong in the Ace match? Effort clearly carried CJ to victory vs. Khan. But that is not the normal way CJ works. The rest of the team started failing, so Effort had to put his balls on the table. Also, look at it this way: MORE THAN HALF of CJ's players suddenly decided to suck and they STILL managed to win enough games to carry the team to ace match. You've got to have a pretty deep line up for that to happen! I should also add that Khan played amazingly well, especially Miracle and Great. Khan normally doesn't have such a deep line up, but for this match, suddenly they did. Coach Cho has been sending his young players out steadily to gain experience, so we kind of expect them to perform. But with Miracle and Great it was like they grew superpowers overnight. January is an amazing coach. | ||
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Heimatloser
Germany1494 Posts
god damn you, stop spending so much time for your gf! stop spending so much time for your WoW! its probably like his girl says "hey stork i wanna go on a nice holiday, couldnt you train a bit again and win some league?" and then he starts training, rest of the time he just enjoys his time and is happy being a top30 progamer with a gold medal. | ||
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RowdierBob
Australia13426 Posts
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dekuschrub
United States2069 Posts
I do agree that Khan kinda snuck by STX with their format and Jangbi taking wins. So if that is true then certainly Effort carried a shitshow CJ performance past Khan. Really I do think CJ is the better team, and they have a lot of players that I like. I was just honestly disappointed that they won this way, cause that shit just aint gonna fly against JD Oz lolololol | ||
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fusionsdf
Canada15390 Posts
On July 27 2009 15:29 NicolBolas wrote: Nobody's arguing that Effort didn't carry the team. The point they're trying to make is that CJ doesn't normally play this way. For whatever reason, the normally reliable players on CJ all decided to suck for two days (or one day, in the case of Iris). When the rest of your team starts to suck, your big guy has to step it up and get the job done. That's what being the big guy is all about. But CJ is not Effort + some other guys; that's not how they play or strategize. It just worked out this way. Look at the games vs. Sparkyz. Effort got taken down by Yarnc in the set that CJ won. And when it came down to the Ace match, did Coach Cho put in Effort, their star player? No; he put in Movie, who despite having lost his game that night proceeded to whip Leta's ass. And Coach Cho had planned all along to put Movie in the Ace match. Why? Because Leta would be expecting vZ, and he wouldn't be expecting vP. You think OZ would ever dare to put anyone other than Jaedong in the Ace match? Effort clearly carried CJ to victory vs. Khan. But that is not the normal way CJ works. The rest of the team started failing, so Effort had to put his balls on the table. I know everyones saying it, but iris' loss to odin was not a result of him sucking. Odin picked a really clever build. practiced it over and over and over, and performed it really well. Iris just plain got sniped | ||
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Hot_Bid
Braavos36401 Posts
On July 27 2009 23:59 dekuschrub wrote: Hot Bid's post is kinda bogus because he threw in CJ's match against Hite and Khan's match against STX in his W-L records. I'm only talking about the CJ-Khan matches, in which Khan had mostly winning records and CJ's team had mostly losing records. Should Jangbi have gone out in the final ace match yeah it would have put him at 3-0, the most wins for his team. Having a 3-0 vs what his teammate put up (stork and miracles 2-0) is really not that considerable a difference. However look at how CJ won. Effort went 4-0, while the next best win record was a 1-1. I do agree that Khan kinda snuck by STX with their format and Jangbi taking wins. So if that is true then certainly Effort carried a shitshow CJ performance past Khan. Really I do think CJ is the better team, and they have a lot of players that I like. I was just honestly disappointed that they won this way, cause that shit just aint gonna fly against JD Oz lolololol how is it bogus? how can you come up with the conclusion that "effort carried CJ" when it didn't happen in the CJ vs Hite match? Effort lost to Yarnc and didn't even play the ace the first time. they won winners' league off someone else's 4-0, they had a ton of 3-0's in PL. In fact, most of their wins came without an ace match. So what if one time effort makes up for the bad performances of other teams? This happens all the time with a ton of other teams. CJ has consistently shown that they aren't a one man team. What does it say that Samsung couldn't beat them despite CJ's non-Effort lineup playing like absolute crap? When it came down to it, Samsung had four games (two non Effort) to close it out. And they didn't. You need a strong performance from two other players to get that done, and CJ got that. What are you trying to say anyway? Samsung played bad and deserved to lose. What's wrong with how CJ won? Does it make their win less legitimate? Is it unfair somehow? If not, I don't see what you're saying. So what if Effort carried them this time? Are CJ fans supposed to some how feel insulted because we have a great player on our team that can make up for one of the rare times where everyone else craps out? | ||
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tedster
984 Posts
Yeah, these claims are basically just showing how little you understand about the game and the pro-scene in general. Don't make ridiculous claims unless you want to be called out as a noob =[ | ||
Elyvilon
United States13143 Posts
On July 28 2009 02:11 Hot_Bid wrote: how is it bogus? how can you come up with the conclusion that "effort carried CJ" when it didn't happen in the CJ vs Hite match? Effort lost to Yarnc and didn't even play the ace the first time. they won winners' league off someone else's 4-0, they had a ton of 3-0's in PL. In fact, most of their wins came without an ace match. So what if one time effort makes up for the bad performances of other teams? This happens all the time with a ton of other teams. CJ has consistently shown that they aren't a one man team. What does it say that Samsung couldn't beat them despite CJ's non-Effort lineup playing like absolute crap? When it came down to it, Samsung had four games (two non Effort) to close it out. And they didn't. You need a strong performance from two other players to get that done, and CJ got that. What are you trying to say anyway? Samsung played bad and deserved to lose. What's wrong with how CJ won? Does it make their win less legitimate? Is it unfair somehow? If not, I don't see what you're saying. So what if Effort carried them this time? Are CJ fans supposed to some how feel insulted because we have a great player on our team that can make up for one of the rare times where everyone else craps out? I'll agree that Samsung deserved to lose(we lost, therefore we deserved to lose), but I don't think the team played badly. firebathero played badly, Juni played badly, great was mediocre, but I don't think the team as a whole played badly. Even though I don't care for CJ, I agree with the rest of your post, though. Just because CJ was carried by effort against Samsung doesn't mean they should be labelled a one-man team yet. | ||
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dekuschrub
United States2069 Posts
CJ fans always boast about the depth of their team, and they are right. However the win against khan (unlike the win over Hite) certainly did not show off that depth. I still believe CJ should of won and I don't think its unfair, but it was a great Effort performance, not a great CJ Entus performance. Also if CJ wants to stay alive in this playoff theyre gonna need to rely on more of the team than just effort, because against Oz (the kings of not being deep at all) youre gonna need more than to just get to an ace match of 1 day (aka 2 non effort wins) and have effort do the rest. Which I think they are totally capable of doing. So basically... I never said that CJ was a one man team, except against khan they sure looked like one. I'm really not trying to shit on CJ's win, and I thought it was an awesome match. Effort is sooooo goooddddddd.+ Show Spoiler + Jd is gonna get him though! | ||
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