-If YarnC wins: Effort > Flash - Three-way tiebreaker for both seeds between Jaedong, YarnC, and Effort Flash > Effort - YarnC advances as A1, Jaedong advances as A2. -If Jaedong wins: Effort > Flash - Jaedong advances as A1, Effort advances as A2. Flash > Effort - Jaedong advances as A1, three-way tiebreaker between Flash, Effort, and Yarnc for A2 seed.
Backho is 0-2, type-b is 1-1
-Will depend a lot on Fantasy vs Stork. If Backho wins tonight, then: Fantasy > Stork - Fantasy advances as B1, three-way tiebreaker for B2 seed between Type-B, Backho, and Stork. Stork > Fantasy - Stork advances as B1, Fantasy advances as B2. -If Type-B wins tonight, then: Fantasy > Stork - Fantasy advances as B1, Type-B advances as B2. Stork > Fantasy - Three-way tiebreaker between Fantasy, Stork, and Type-B to determine both the B1 and B2 seeds.
Zero is 2-0, Bisu is 1-1
-Depends on go.go vs Hwasin, if Zero wins tonight: Go.Go > Hwasin - Zero advances as C1, Go.Go advances as C2. Hwasin > go.go - Zero advances as C1, three-way tiebreaker for C2 between Hwasin, Bisu, and go.go. -If Bisu wins: Go.go > Hwasin - Three-way tiebreaker between Bisu, Zero, and go.go for both seeds. Hwasin > go.go - Bisu advances as C1, Zero advances as C2.
Leta is 2-0, Kwanro is 0-2
-The outcome of this match won't affect the group, Leta advances as D1 no matter what and the winner of Hero vs Canata will advance as D2 no matter what.
Jaedong - So Flash has a chance Backho - So Stork is guaranteed at least a tie-break Zero - So he can eat more meat Kwanro - Because I want to see twenty "Kwanrolled" posts.
YellOw[ArnC] < Jaedong Jaedong HAS been focusing on leagues right? IMO Jaedong won't go for a strategic loss.
BackHo < type-b Type-b hasn't used Bonjwa note in a while...
ZerO < Bisu Zero didn't play in PL today, either because Free wanted to play ace or he was only practicing for this. That being said, KTY needs to win this or he might not make it out of his group.
Leta < Kwanro Thundershock > Two port wraith... Leta deserves a loss today xD
On July 08 2009 16:27 Bosu wrote: What are the records of the players so far?
YarnC is 1-1, Jaedong is 2-0
-If YarnC wins: Effort > Flash - Three-way tiebreaker for both seeds between Jaedong, YarnC, and Effort Flash > Effort - YarnC advances as A1, Jaedong advances as A2. -If Jaedong wins: Effort > Flash - Jaedong advances as A1, Effort advances as A2. Flash > Effort - Jaedong advances as A1, three-way tiebreaker between Flash, Effort, and Yarnc for A2 seed.
Backho is 0-2, type-b is 1-1
-Will depend a lot on Fantasy vs Stork. If Backho wins tonight, then: Fantasy > Stork - Fantasy advances as B1, three-way tiebreaker for B2 seed between Type-B, Backho, and Stork. Stork > Fantasy - Stork advances as B1, Fantasy advances as B2. -If Type-B wins tonight, then: Fantasy > Stork - Fantasy advances as B1, Type-B advances as B2. Stork > Fantasy - Three-way tiebreaker between Fantasy, Stork, and Type-B to determine both the B1 and B2 seeds.
Zero is 2-0, Bisu is 1-1
-Depends on go.go vs Hwasin, if Zero wins tonight: Go.Go > Hwasin - Zero advances as C1, Go.Go advances as C2. Hwasin > go.go - Zero advances as C1, three-way tiebreaker for C2 between Hwasin, Bisu, and go.go. -If Bisu wins: Go.go > Hwasin - Three-way tiebreaker between Bisu, Zero, and go.go for both seeds. Hwasin > go.go - Bisu advances as C1, Zero advances as C2.
Leta is 2-0, Kwanro is 0-2
-The outcome of this match won't affect the group, Leta advances as D1 no matter what and the winner of Hero vs Canata will advance as D2 no matter what.
i think unfortunately backho is screwed....if he wins his game, fantasy will automatically qualify and probably won't have much motivation to win his game. if that's the case, stork will make it in as second seed
On July 08 2009 16:56 skronch wrote: i think unfortunately backho is screwed....if he wins his game, fantasy will automatically qualify and probably won't have much motivation to win his game. if that's the case, stork will make it in as second seed
No. Fantasy will prepare hard against Stork regardless. For a couple of reasons.
1. One seed let you get rid of a map. 2. Why let Stork, still one of the most dangerous player against terran go through and possibly knock you out later? It's not like he has to fear type-b or Backho.
On July 08 2009 16:56 skronch wrote: i think unfortunately backho is screwed....if he wins his game, fantasy will automatically qualify and probably won't have much motivation to win his game. if that's the case, stork will make it in as second seed
No. Fantasy will prepare hard against Stork regardless. For a couple of reasons.
1. One seed let you get rid of a map. 2. Why let Stork, still one of the most dangerous player against terran go through and possibly knock you out later? It's not like he has to fear type-b or Backho.
True, though Fantasy has another (much more important) TvP against Bisu the next day. I can't decide if that will help or hurt his chances against Stork.
Regardless, I'm really hoping that backho can pull through!
On July 08 2009 16:27 Bosu wrote: What are the records of the players so far?
YarnC is 1-1, Jaedong is 2-0
-If YarnC wins, he'll advance as A1 and Jaedong will advance as A2. If Jaedong wins, he'll advance as A1 and the A2 seed will depend on Flash vs Effort. If Effort were to win in this scenario, he'd advance as A2, whereas if Flash won there would be a three-way tiebreaker between Flash, Effort, and Yarnc..
Wait, what? If Yarnc wins he's not guaranteed to be A1. If Yarnc wins and Effort wins, it's a three-way tie for first (all three Zergs will be 2-1) and there'll be a ZvZ tiebreaker with two survivors.
(Z)YellOw[ArnC] < (Z)Jaedong Jaedong's ridiculous 81% win rate vs z cannot be just from luck. He should easily take this game, but it would be Nice to see YellOw[ArnC] pull an upset (P)BackHo < (Z)type-b BackHo will manage to screw himself over by not walling properly or something like that, have no faith in him T_T (Z)ZerO < (P)Bisu The way Bisu is playing right now, is a level above ZerO. Actually its more like 20 levels above him. (T)Leta < (Z)Kwanro Leta is gonna get KWAAAAAAAANROOOOOOOLLLED, Seriuosly though, Leta's 2 port wraith doesn't give him a lot of units early on, which you need to fend off Kwanro's supidly crazy aggression.
On July 08 2009 17:53 JWD wrote: So: who thinks JD will bomb this game to boot Flash? It's not like he's accepting much risk by entering a tiebreak with two other Zergs.
On July 08 2009 17:53 JWD wrote: So: who thinks JD will bomb this game to boot Flash? It's not like he's accepting much risk by entering a tiebreak with two other Zergs.
On July 08 2009 17:53 JWD wrote: So: who thinks JD will bomb this game to boot Flash? It's not like he's accepting much risk by entering a tiebreak with two other Zergs.
I don't think he would stoop to that and I don't think he would want to take a chance of losing in a tie-breaker either, even if it is ZvZ. OTOH, if he plays as atrociously as he did in his last two PL games, he will certainly bomb this game, so...we'll have to see. Hopefully his spell of exhaustion has worn off by now.
On July 08 2009 17:53 JWD wrote: So: who thinks JD will bomb this game to boot Flash? It's not like he's accepting much risk by entering a tiebreak with two other Zergs.
I don't think he would stoop to that and I don't think he would want to take a chance of losing in a tie-breaker either, even if it is ZvZ. OTOH, if he plays as atrociously as he did in his last two PL games, he will certainly bomb this game, so...we'll have to see. Hopefully his spell of exhaustion has worn off by now.
he threw a game to much in the GSI so he wouldn't have to face Anytime (team mates at that time). So why not do it again
On July 08 2009 17:53 JWD wrote: So: who thinks JD will bomb this game to boot Flash? It's not like he's accepting much risk by entering a tiebreak with two other Zergs.
Its a real possibility
why would he want to boot flash? all he has to do is 2-hatch muta to win
seriously though, it doesn't make sense for him to risk having to play another game. his schedule will be relatively light for the next few days, but who knows what it will be like if he has to play a tiebreaker
On July 08 2009 17:53 JWD wrote: So: who thinks JD will bomb this game to boot Flash? It's not like he's accepting much risk by entering a tiebreak with two other Zergs.
I don't think he would stoop to that and I don't think he would want to take a chance of losing in a tie-breaker either, even if it is ZvZ. OTOH, if he plays as atrociously as he did in his last two PL games, he will certainly bomb this game, so...we'll have to see. Hopefully his spell of exhaustion has worn off by now.
Stoop to what? I don't think there's anything dishonorable about capitalizing on the advantage he's earned by going 2-0 in his group...JD's only concern should be getting himself to an OSL Championship, and if that means kicking Flash to saturate the Ro8 field with Zergs then so be it. Plus, there are few things more dramatic or exciting than a sneaky move like throwing a game. I really hope JD goes for it (or...err...doesn't go for it ).
I don't think a few ZvZs would overload JD's schedule — they require less practice than other matchups, and obviously ZvZ comes somewhat innately to Jaedong. Also, keep in mind that if he did end up in a tiebreak, it would be one from which two of three participants would advance. I just don't see him finishing last in a round of ZvZs with Yarnc and Effort.
On July 08 2009 17:53 JWD wrote: So: who thinks JD will bomb this game to boot Flash? It's not like he's accepting much risk by entering a tiebreak with two other Zergs.
I don't think he would stoop to that and I don't think he would want to take a chance of losing in a tie-breaker either, even if it is ZvZ. OTOH, if he plays as atrociously as he did in his last two PL games, he will certainly bomb this game, so...we'll have to see. Hopefully his spell of exhaustion has worn off by now.
Stoop to what? I don't think there's anything dishonorable about capitalizing on the advantage he's earned by going 2-0 in his group...JD's only concern should be getting himself to an OSL Championship, and if that means kicking Flash to saturate the Ro8 field with Zergs then so be it. Plus, there are few things more dramatic or exciting than an underhanded move like throwing a game. I really hope JD goes for it.
Is throwing a game actually a "legal maneuver"? It's not, in most sports (cf. the Chicago Black Sox).
IMO, the top two performing players are the ones who are supposed to exit the Ro16. Throwing a game to one of them to screw another one, is just a way of gaming the system, which, like other cheats, should not be allowed. Of course, practically speaking, this can't really be enforced, but I do think that throwing a game is dishonorable.
hmmm....maybe I should just make a thread to announce the new PR, as usual
Last month some people complained that such a thread was unnecessary...ahh, screw them. I always found the announcement in BW pretty useful as a PR reader
On July 08 2009 18:17 JWD wrote: hmmm....maybe I should just make a thread to announce the new PR, as usual
Last month some people complained that such a thread was unnecessary...ahh, screw them. I always found the announcement in BW pretty useful as a PR reader
JWD's semi-derail almost made me forget this is an OSL threads. Today's games should be pretty good. Most exciting one should be Backho vs type-b, maybe even Bisu vs Zero for the revenge value.
Jaedong should have a field day with Yellow[arnc] but his schedule has been insane lately and unpest wouldn't be improbable. Leta vs Kwanro should be pretty straighforward aswell, because I don't think Kwanro has what it takes to resists Leta's 2 port play.
On July 08 2009 17:53 JWD wrote: So: who thinks JD will bomb this game to boot Flash? It's not like he's accepting much risk by entering a tiebreak with two other Zergs.
I don't think he would stoop to that and I don't think he would want to take a chance of losing in a tie-breaker either, even if it is ZvZ. OTOH, if he plays as atrociously as he did in his last two PL games, he will certainly bomb this game, so...we'll have to see. Hopefully his spell of exhaustion has worn off by now.
Stoop to what? I don't think there's anything dishonorable about capitalizing on the advantage he's earned by going 2-0 in his group...JD's only concern should be getting himself to an OSL Championship, and if that means kicking Flash to saturate the Ro8 field with Zergs then so be it. Plus, there are few things more dramatic or exciting than an underhanded move like throwing a game. I really hope JD goes for it.
Is throwing a game actually a "legal maneuver"? It's not, in most sports.
You must not watch a lot of sports.
And in SC, it's pretty much impossible to tell whether a player throws a game or now. Unless you suddenly see Jaedong driving ferraris and hanging out with the Korean mafia.
On July 08 2009 17:53 JWD wrote: So: who thinks JD will bomb this game to boot Flash? It's not like he's accepting much risk by entering a tiebreak with two other Zergs.
I don't think he would stoop to that and I don't think he would want to take a chance of losing in a tie-breaker either, even if it is ZvZ. OTOH, if he plays as atrociously as he did in his last two PL games, he will certainly bomb this game, so...we'll have to see. Hopefully his spell of exhaustion has worn off by now.
Stoop to what? I don't think there's anything dishonorable about capitalizing on the advantage he's earned by going 2-0 in his group...JD's only concern should be getting himself to an OSL Championship, and if that means kicking Flash to saturate the Ro8 field with Zergs then so be it. Plus, there are few things more dramatic or exciting than an underhanded move like throwing a game. I really hope JD goes for it.
Is throwing a game actually a "legal maneuver"? It's not, in most sports.
You must not watch a lot of sports.
And in SC, it's pretty much impossible to tell whether a player throws a game or now. Unless you suddenly see Jaedong driving ferraris and hanging out with the Korean mafia.
It was pretty obvious in the Blizzard Invitational in Germany. Stork was playing against a Chinese PvP, and they both wanted to throw the game (Stork double expoed) by doing stupid micro back and forth and barely attacking each other. Stork went into the opponent's main, was attacking the single pylon that was powering all the gateways, and didn't finish the pylon off when he easily could have. In the end, Stork still won and he had to play against Jaedong.
I wouldn't mind if Yarnc won and brought us some great games later in the tournament. Because chances are he won't unless Jaedong throws... I hope he loses... .
On July 08 2009 17:53 JWD wrote: So: who thinks JD will bomb this game to boot Flash? It's not like he's accepting much risk by entering a tiebreak with two other Zergs.
I don't think he would stoop to that and I don't think he would want to take a chance of losing in a tie-breaker either, even if it is ZvZ. OTOH, if he plays as atrociously as he did in his last two PL games, he will certainly bomb this game, so...we'll have to see. Hopefully his spell of exhaustion has worn off by now.
Stoop to what? I don't think there's anything dishonorable about capitalizing on the advantage he's earned by going 2-0 in his group...JD's only concern should be getting himself to an OSL Championship, and if that means kicking Flash to saturate the Ro8 field with Zergs then so be it. Plus, there are few things more dramatic or exciting than an underhanded move like throwing a game. I really hope JD goes for it.
Is throwing a game actually a "legal maneuver"? It's not, in most sports.
You must not watch a lot of sports.
And in SC, it's pretty much impossible to tell whether a player throws a game or now. Unless you suddenly see Jaedong driving ferraris and hanging out with the Korean mafia.
It was pretty obvious in the Blizzard Invitational in Germany. Stork was playing against a Chinese PvP, and they both wanted to throw the game (Stork double expoed) by doing stupid micro back and forth and barely attacking each other. Stork went into the opponent's main, was attacking the single pylon that was powering all the gateways, and didn't finish the pylon off when he easily could have. In the end, Stork still won and he had to play against Jaedong.
On July 08 2009 17:53 JWD wrote: So: who thinks JD will bomb this game to boot Flash? It's not like he's accepting much risk by entering a tiebreak with two other Zergs.
I don't think he would stoop to that and I don't think he would want to take a chance of losing in a tie-breaker either, even if it is ZvZ. OTOH, if he plays as atrociously as he did in his last two PL games, he will certainly bomb this game, so...we'll have to see. Hopefully his spell of exhaustion has worn off by now.
Stoop to what? I don't think there's anything dishonorable about capitalizing on the advantage he's earned by going 2-0 in his group...JD's only concern should be getting himself to an OSL Championship, and if that means kicking Flash to saturate the Ro8 field with Zergs then so be it. Plus, there are few things more dramatic or exciting than an underhanded move like throwing a game. I really hope JD goes for it.
Is throwing a game actually a "legal maneuver"? It's not, in most sports.
You must not watch a lot of sports.
And in SC, it's pretty much impossible to tell whether a player throws a game or now. Unless you suddenly see Jaedong driving ferraris and hanging out with the Korean mafia.
It was pretty obvious in the Blizzard Invitational in Germany. Stork was playing against a Chinese PvP, and they both wanted to throw the game (Stork double expoed) by doing stupid micro back and forth and barely attacking each other. Stork went into the opponent's main, was attacking the single pylon that was powering all the gateways, and didn't finish the pylon off when he easily could have. In the end, Stork still won and he had to play against Jaedong.
hahaha, I have to find that game
it was pretty sad, tbh. i think it was lovett vs stork, iirc
no, that was the game in which Lovett had the advantage over stork, but still lost. Here is one of the comments for the game.
What a pity. LoveTT should have won this. He was clearly ahead once he took down the shuttle and had 2nd expo way faster than Stork. However, his macro/micro can't really keep up with Stork. Mircro, as in better number of troop in the first major battle but came out even. Macro, as in Stork with less mining/gateway and came out equal force in the end. With or without dt harrassment, he would likely lose in the end.
On July 08 2009 17:53 JWD wrote: So: who thinks JD will bomb this game to boot Flash? It's not like he's accepting much risk by entering a tiebreak with two other Zergs.
I don't think he would stoop to that and I don't think he would want to take a chance of losing in a tie-breaker either, even if it is ZvZ. OTOH, if he plays as atrociously as he did in his last two PL games, he will certainly bomb this game, so...we'll have to see. Hopefully his spell of exhaustion has worn off by now.
Stoop to what? I don't think there's anything dishonorable about capitalizing on the advantage he's earned by going 2-0 in his group...JD's only concern should be getting himself to an OSL Championship, and if that means kicking Flash to saturate the Ro8 field with Zergs then so be it. Plus, there are few things more dramatic or exciting than an underhanded move like throwing a game. I really hope JD goes for it.
Is throwing a game actually a "legal maneuver"? It's not, in most sports.
You must not watch a lot of sports.
And in SC, it's pretty much impossible to tell whether a player throws a game or now. Unless you suddenly see Jaedong driving ferraris and hanging out with the Korean mafia.
It was pretty obvious in the Blizzard Invitational in Germany. Stork was playing against a Chinese PvP, and they both wanted to throw the game (Stork double expoed) by doing stupid micro back and forth and barely attacking each other. Stork went into the opponent's main, was attacking the single pylon that was powering all the gateways, and didn't finish the pylon off when he easily could have. In the end, Stork still won and he had to play against Jaedong.
hahaha, I have to find that game
it was pretty sad, tbh. i think it was lovett vs stork, iirc
no, that was the game in which Lovett had the advantage over stork, but still lost. Here is one of the comments for the game.
What a pity. LoveTT should have won this. He was clearly ahead once he took down the shuttle and had 2nd expo way faster than Stork. However, his macro/micro can't really keep up with Stork. Mircro, as in better number of troop in the first major battle but came out even. Macro, as in Stork with less mining/gateway and came out equal force in the end. With or without dt harrassment, he would likely lose in the end.
JD's lings arrive at Yarnc's choke as his pop. Few hits traded, JD goes in and tries and attacks Yanrcs ramp and fails, Yarnc has another hatch almost finished.
On July 08 2009 18:49 dnastyx wrote: Sorry, but can someone explain why Flash would be out when JD lost?
Flash needed Jaedong to beat Yarnc so that he, Yarnc, and Effort could all be at 1-2 come the end of group play on Friday. Now that Yarnc has won, however, both he and JD have 2 wins and there is no way for Flash (0-2) to make the Ro8.
On July 08 2009 18:49 Vasoline73 wrote: Take GOM and MSL Flash it's ok . This means Yarnc advances right? Sorry for being stupid and not figuring out scores correctly.
If Effort beats Flash, it's a tiebreaker with the top 2 advancing.
On July 08 2009 18:49 dnastyx wrote: Sorry, but can someone explain why Flash would be out when JD lost?
Before
JD 2-0 EFFORT 1-1 YARNC 1-1 FLASH 0-2
Now:
JD 2-1 EFFORT 1-1 Yarnc 2-1 Flash 0-2
Even if flash wins his last game the best record he can get is 1-2... which isnt enough... the best he could hope for would be a 3 way tiebreaker at 1-2 (JD beat yarnc, Flash beats Effort)
On July 08 2009 18:49 dnastyx wrote: Sorry, but can someone explain why Flash would be out when JD lost?
because both JD and Yarnc have 2-1 records now, and Flash is 0-2. Had Jaedong won, Flash could have hoped to go into a tiebreak with Effort and Yarnc for the second spot.
On July 08 2009 18:51 Instigata wrote: So Jaedong might have to play a playoff and not even make it out of his group?
Yes, if Effort beats Flash then he, Yarnc, and JD will all be at 2-1. In that case they'll play a tiebreak to determine who doesn't qualify for the Ro8.
I seriously doubt JD threw that game away... if it makes fans feel better, that's fine, but you could see on his face he wanted to win. His BO was up against a counter BO, and from the start he was behind.
I'm sure Jaedong fancies his chances in a 3 zvz tiebreak... he had every reason to throw that game... but I'm still annoyed with him if he did.. it seems like a Bisu-ish thing to do
he wasnt attacking with his mutas half the time... just chasing...
he blatantly didnt want to win that
With Yarnc's first few scourge managing to hit muta plus fact that it was 1hat vs 2hat, there really wasn't anyway to engage Yarnc's bigger muta ball without losing anyway.
On July 08 2009 18:51 Instigata wrote: So Jaedong might have to play a playoff and not even make it out of his group?
It seems unlikely that he'd be the loser in a 3 person group of all Zergs. But JD has looked SO tired lately and Effort and Yarnc aren't ZvZs pushovers - both have beaten JD in the last month in fact. Anything is possible at this point.
I don't think JD threw that game - it wouldn't have made sense to leave open the possibility of having to play a grueling tiebreaker, even if it is ZvZ, and risk not advancing. But he definitely didn't practice as hard for this as his upcoming MSL game against Kal, I'll bet that much.
What would be RIDICULOUS is if Effort beats Flash (which I thought was likely even before, but is now even more likely given that the game doesn't matter to Flash but does to Effort, and that Flash's TvZ looks horrible at the moment). Because then JD plays Effort in GOM in a BO3, and they would then possibly face off again in a tiebreaker!
On July 08 2009 18:54 Dgtl wrote: Time for the least hyped match of the day for me atleast. Backho vs Type-B.
Not to take away from them but they aren't the best.
No they arent but come on! Its backHO. He makes for the most entertaining games in progames. He always finds ways to amazing or to make you laugh or whatever. He is so much fun.
Flash should just lose to effort so that they have to play a tiebreaker even though JD would still advance most likely. Replay shows jaedong trying his hardest to lose.
On July 08 2009 18:56 JWD wrote: I mean honestly...in the final muta battle he only attacked once
Ya but come on, the game was basically over once JD's initial ling micro was poor and he was playing 1 Hatch vs 2 Hatch. Even for a JD ZvZ, having basically no advantage playing 1 Hatch versus 2 Hatch at Spire tech is virtually impossible. One hallmark of JD's ZvZ play in general is that he manages to avoid getting into those situations virtually every game - this game he just didn't have it at the start. Like I said earlier, I'm guessing he's been concentrating more on beating Kal....
On July 08 2009 18:58 iLoveKT wrote: Flash should just lose to effort so that they have to play a tiebreaker even though JD would still advance most likely. Replay shows jaedong trying his hardest to lose.
That would be so awesome. He kills his CC with his 5 SCVs and right before his CC burns down, he'll type "fuck you jaedong" and then get eliminated.
On July 08 2009 18:57 JWD wrote: Is the idea that JD would throw his game too taboo for them to discuss? That seems like the most obvious explanation for this loss.
I think Jaedong throwing the game would be considered so disrespectful both to Flash and to Yarnc that the commentators would be naturally hesitant to advance the idea without more blatant evidence, especially with Jaedong looking a little tired lately.
It would be even funnier if JD didn't make it out of his group in result of possibly dropping the game to effort. Why make it bad when you can make it shit
On July 08 2009 18:55 Balfazar wrote: So how exactly do the tiebreakers work when it's 2 to advance instead of just 1?
theres about 20 posts in this thread that explain how it works
I've read all the posts in this thread, nobody has explained it past "tiebreaker and two advance".
I think the way it works is the 3 players play round robin until one of the players goes 2-0. When there's two seeds up for grabs the 2-0 player advances as #1 seed and the 1-1 player would advance as the #2 seed while the 0-2 player would be eliminated. If only one seed is available the 2-0 player advances.
On July 08 2009 18:55 Balfazar wrote: So how exactly do the tiebreakers work when it's 2 to advance instead of just 1?
theres about 20 posts in this thread that explain how it works
I've read all the posts in this thread, nobody has explained it past "tiebreaker and two advance".
I think the way it works is the 3 players play round robin until one of the players goes 2-0. When there's two seeds up for grabs the 2-0 player advances as #1 seed and the 1-1 player would advance as the #2 seed while the 0-2 player would be eliminated. If only one seed is available the 2-0 player advances.
yeah I love these OSL tiebreakers. They could literally go on forever.
On July 08 2009 18:59 crucifix wrote: I hope Flash will drop his game vs EffOrt, so there will be 3-way tiebreakers and somehow Jeadong won't make it, haha, that would be sick scenario !
I love Flash but I don't think he needs to "try" to throw a game to Effort right now.
Flash's problem is he's too greedy (duh). I wish he would sacrifice a little economy to be safer, and if he figures out how to do it in the right ways with his new TvZ build, maaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaybe he'll salvage it eventually. I just don't understand why Flash isn't willing to budge on econ a bit more - even in today's "modern era" his macro is still so good that he can pull back to even against virtually anyone. And, if his build really is that good, shouldn't that leave him with an edge still? Too bad Flash doesn't design strats for an edge, but rather to "solve all" which seems nearly impossible these days.
what i do think is that hes not practicing for anything but the Kal game tomorrow
he is doing weird risky tactics in these recent games - the kind you do when you have little to no preparation for this matchup on this map, especially for someone who is used to overwhelming preparation/practice.
remember the game vs GGPlay in the last OSL qualifications? The game that didnt matter because JD had already advanced? JD lost - but there was no reason to "throw it" - he just didnt prepare at all because the match was worthless and ended up losing quite handily (looked a lot like tonight's game vs Yellow)
On July 08 2009 18:59 crucifix wrote: I hope Flash will drop his game vs EffOrt, so there will be 3-way tiebreakers and somehow Jeadong won't make it, haha, that would be sick scenario !
I love Flash but I don't think he needs to "try" to throw a game to Effort right now.
Flash's problem is he's too greedy (duh). I wish he would sacrifice a little economy to be safer, and if he figures out how to do it in the right ways with his new TvZ build, maaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaybe he'll salvage it eventually. I just don't understand why Flash isn't willing to budge on econ a bit more - even in today's "modern era" his macro is still so good that he can pull back to even against virtually anyone. And, if his build really is that good, shouldn't that leave him with an edge still? Too bad Flash doesn't design strats for an edge, but rather to "solve all" which seems nearly impossible these days.
On July 08 2009 18:58 iLoveKT wrote: Flash should just lose to effort so that they have to play a tiebreaker even though JD would still advance most likely. Replay shows jaedong trying his hardest to lose.
That would be so awesome. He kills his CC with his 5 SCVs and right before his CC burns down, he'll type "fuck you jaedong" and then get eliminated.
On July 08 2009 19:03 Atrioc wrote: i dont think JD threw that game
what i do think is that hes not practicing for anything but the Kal game tomorrow
he is doing weird risky tactics in these recent games - the kind you do when you have little to no preparation for this matchup on this map, especially for someone who is used to overwhelming preparation/practice.
remember the game vs GGPlay in the last OSL qualifications? The game that didnt matter because JD had already advanced? JD lost - but there was no reason to "throw it" - he just didnt prepare at all because the match was worthless and ended up losing quite handily (looked a lot like tonight's game vs Yellow)
I agree but just wanted to point out that the Kal game is not tomorrow but in three days.
JD's too smart not to allocate his practice time to where he needs it most. He's now lost a completely meaningless ZvZ to GGPlay and a close to meaningless ZvZ to Yarnc (a lot has to go wrong for JD to go down here ... and at the end of the day it's still JvZ, the most imbalanced matchup in SC history). All the evidence points to practice time (re)allocation.
Why should JD risk dropping out of OSL only to eliminate Flash who is doing poorly in TvZ atm? He said he feels exhausted by playing so many games, so why should he put himself another tiebreaker series into his schedule? That's ridiculous.
I love BackHo - he's always given you the feeling that anything can happen in one of his games.
I mean seriously, before the offensive ziziYO happened, say someone told you "a progamer offensive GGed". How likely would you have felt that it was BackHo who did it? 95%? 99%???
First zealot out for backho. Type-B taking top base for his third while backho gets his stargate. BACHKO DOES PYLON TRICK TO GET SCOUT IN but zergling is there and kills it quickly poor backho
On July 08 2009 19:08 Zinbiel wrote: I see that more people have jumped on the Backho bandwagon since I visited this site the last time. Good, good....
On July 08 2009 19:08 Zinbiel wrote: I see that more people have jumped on the Backho bandwagon since I visited this site the last time. Good, good....
his fan base seems to be expanding rapidly
i've liked him ever since i found out his name was backho
On July 08 2009 19:07 deathgod6 wrote: haha awesome DBZ sign. thx koko!
nice new nick for kona
It's mainly from Conan O Brien's Tonight Show. During his second show, Tom Hanks gave Conan the nickname Coco and it kinda stuck. Snoop Dogg even added an appendix to his nick, Cocoloc (Snoop: like loco b/c he's crazy).
On July 08 2009 19:08 Zinbiel wrote: I see that more people have jumped on the Backho bandwagon since I visited this site the last time. Good, good....
his fan base seems to be expanding rapidly
I wasn't really a fan until I watched the ziziYO game live.
How can you not love a guy like that? Plus, like someone said, he's completely unpredictable.
hmm, too bad his daring strategy didn't work out, Backho still stands as the moral winner in my opinion, he was just 5 sec from having that reaver ready in time!
God Backho, that's what you get for not killing ovies.
Right before type-b started pumping hydra Backho had a chance to kill 4 ovies and he chose to stay in his base and make more sairs. That costed him the game imo.
On July 08 2009 19:18 FranzF1 wrote: Doesnt matter... type-b is going to hurt himself and all the round of 16 will play for that spot... and BACKHO WILL RETURN AND WIN THE FUCKING OSL
On July 08 2009 19:17 baubo wrote: God you're so fail, Backho.
On July 08 2009 19:14 GTR wrote: type-b is officially in the ro8 unless fantasy miserably fails against stork on friday. what a dark horse.
TvP on Outsider against Stork? Fantasy isn't that good.
are you joking? in the form both fantasy and stork are in, i'd give it 50:1 odds that stork has a chance of winning against fantasy.
If you are willing to give 50:1 i'd think it worthwhile to bet a small amount just in case Stork brings his A-game, in which case he will rape fantasy.
when there is one thing worse than backhos defeats it's definitely those stupid failho posts. there was no way backho could have saved his reaver after his shuttle god sniped.
On July 08 2009 19:29 GTR wrote: i wonder why they have the standard windows xp background can't they take some effort to put the ogn logo or something? :O
GG FUCK YEAH ZERO. KING OF ENTERTAINMENT. TAKE THAT KTY. Queens ftw . Someone has been reading threads on TL, great we had a guy to theorycraft it right here in TL. Queen/Hydra build XD.
Considering that Bisu had the advantage with expo's, I seriously think Zero played spectular in this match. I'm not saying he's better than Bisu but he had better control and unit composition. GG Zero!!!
I don't know why he took so many expos. All he needs is to be 1 less expo then the zerg or just to have the same amount of expos and hes ahead but he had like +1 more expo then Zero and because of that was lacking units...
On July 08 2009 19:55 Atrioc wrote: such a sick game lmao
everyone on vent was laughing their asses off and just getting a big kick out of it
the last time we had this much fun watching a game was when Boxer used nukes/valks in the early rounds of GOM
ZerO is a HerO
Actually,Zero vs Hwasin was even more entertainment, but was probably painful for all the Hwasin fans, he was just fucking around with Hwasin all game long. Zero vs Kal on Holy world was awesome too. Zero vs Skyhigh on Heartbreak was the most brilliant counter to cheese I have ever seen in my life.
still not sure about the queen build though, bisu losing can easily be attributed to him being greedy and taking the top left quite quickly. i didnt see his gateway count but I imagine it was quite low for how many bases were running, at least it seemed so.
On July 08 2009 19:57 disciple wrote: queens, deep six, slow drop... bisu is getting OWNED by non-standard play
deep six?
the game vs go.go I mean his opponents are searching hard for the weapon to take him down, but Bisu what do you expect? Nobody will play standard against you, even Jaedong will cancel his spire
I have to hand it to Zero, even though I'm annoyed Bisu lost.
But the really amazing thing about the initial surge of queen attacks was that he did a near-perfect flank (waited a long time to burrow the lurkers) on Bisu's army after eliminating the templars. That was such amazing strategic gameplay, waiting for the right moment to trap Bisu's army and predicting exactly where the templars would be.
Also when Zero attacked Bisu's nat at the end of the match, you should notice how Bisu's storms were absolutely atrocious. They didn't hit anything. Bisu was obviously panicked by the spectre of queens itching to take out his templars. And without proper storm support the remnants of Bisu's army were toast against the zerg attack. Zero's win was truly a show of strategic domination.
Anyways, I really hope Bisu gets another shot to advance. Being eliminated by one of the best games of Zero's life just wouldn't be right IMO.
On July 08 2009 20:03 latent wrote: I have to hand it to Zero, even though I'm annoyed Bisu lost.
But the really amazing thing about the initial surge of queen attacks was that he did a near-perfect flank (waited a long time to burrow the lurkers) on Bisu's army after eliminating the templars. That was such amazing strategic gameplay, waiting for the right moment to trap Bisu's army and predicting exactly where the templars would be.
Also when Zero attacked Bisu's nat at the end of the match, you should notice how Bisu's storms were absolutely atrocious. They didn't hit anything. Bisu was obviously panicked by the spectre of queens itching to take out his templars. And without proper storm support the remnants of Bisu's army were toast against the zerg attack. Zero's win was truly a show of strategic domination.
Anyways, I really hope Bisu gets another shot to advance. Being eliminated by one of the best games of Zero's life just wouldn't be right IMO.
Really well said. I couldn't have put it better myself. :D
On July 08 2009 20:06 zimz wrote: some progamers should hit on those booth chicks sometimes
I remember in one of those derby matchs between IOGN and MBC Shark was chatting one of them up, while go.go was getting the cold shoulder from his booth girl
On July 08 2009 20:03 latent wrote:Anyways, I really hope Bisu gets another shot to advance. Being eliminated by one of the best games of Zero's life just wouldn't be right IMO.
I must disagree with this statement. Zero has produced many, many great games. And very good usage of strategies and map abuse. He's incredibly inconsistent, probably due to his young age. But the guy's very smart and is very knowledgeable about the game.
I just don't understand how Kwanro's style STILL works. I mean, he's been doing this for like two and a half years now? I honestly think he is a savant of some sort - born to play aggressive. If he had the same level of innate talent for game sense, he would have been ... Ma Bonjwa?
I'm going to go out on a limb and guess that the likelihood of Kwanro scaling back and looking to secure his economic advantage as opposed to pumping out another army and rolling out is approximately 0.
On July 08 2009 20:17 darktreb wrote: I just don't understand how Kwanro's style STILL works. I mean, he's been doing this for like two and a half years now? I honestly think he is a savant of some sort - born to play aggressive. If he had the same level of innate talent for game sense, he would have been ... Ma Bonjwa?
On July 08 2009 20:17 darktreb wrote: I just don't understand how Kwanro's style STILL works. I mean, he's been doing this for like two and a half years now? I honestly think he is a savant of some sort - born to play aggressive. If he had the same level of innate talent for game sense, he would have been ... Ma Bonjwa?
On July 08 2009 19:51 raga4ka wrote: Why is zero not in the PR again ?
the PR is hype, it's not objective.
thats never been true
thats always true! It's subjective!
No, it's not. It's trying to be an accurate evaluation of the top ten players during the last month. Of course, people will disagree about who the top ten are. But if it were just trying to be a list of the top ten people the author liked best, the response to disagreement wouldn't be "No, see, I don't think that your reasoning is correct, for the following reasons"; it would be "But I don't care what you think, because this list isn't trying to be accurate according to any external standard; I'm just saying who I like best." Reasonable people can disagree about something without it being subjective. But if something really *is* subjective, there isn't any way to resolve the disagreement, and there's no point discussing anything or presenting reasons in favor of one side or the other. The PR is clearly intended to be based on and responsive to such reasons.
Of course, it's not always serious, and sometimes in borderline cases "because I (don't) like him" is the reason for a particular ordering. And that is, of course, subjective. But it's usually also an admission of "Hey these guys are pretty close and I don't think that the available evidence really decides the issue either way, so for the hell of it I'm gonna put this guy ahead of this other guy," which is, of course, another objective judgment that could be mistaken.
Jesus why did I write all that ugh. I won't clutter the lr thread more, sorry.
On July 08 2009 20:17 darktreb wrote: I just don't understand how Kwanro's style STILL works. I mean, he's been doing this for like two and a half years now? I honestly think he is a savant of some sort - born to play aggressive. If he had the same level of innate talent for game sense, he would have been ... Ma Bonjwa?
More like Julyzerg
Yes, that's a better comparison. I had meant to say that if Kwanro's talent for aggression was instead replaced with equal talent for game sense/management, that would basically be 2006 Savior. It just seems like this guy basically only knows to attack ... there's none of that refinement that July has (such as when July decides to churn out 100 Hydras in a ZvP)
What I'm trying to say is - I love Kwanro. And I'm definitely worried for Flash in the MSL.
On July 08 2009 20:25 REDBLUEGREEN wrote: well proxy rax against 9 pool sucks -.-
That would be a better defense if you weren't playing against Kwanro. Why not just pick a build that gets countered by 2-base Arbs against Best next time?
On July 08 2009 19:51 raga4ka wrote: Why is zero not in the PR again ?
the PR is hype, it's not objective.
thats never been true
thats always true! It's subjective!
No, it's not. It's trying to be an accurate evaluation of the top ten players during the last month. Of course, people will disagree about who the top ten are. But if it were just trying to be a list of the top ten people the author liked best, the response to disagreement wouldn't be "No, see, I don't think that your reasoning is correct, for the following reasons"; it would be "But I don't care what you think, because this list isn't trying to be accurate according to any external standard; I'm just saying who I like best." Reasonable people can disagree about something without it being subjective. But if something really *is* subjective, there isn't any way to resolve the disagreement, and there's no point discussing anything or presenting reasons in favor of one side or the other. The PR is clearly intended to be based on and responsive to such reasons.
Of course, it's not always serious, and sometimes in borderline cases "because I (don't) like him" is the reason for a particular ordering. And that is, of course, subjective. But it's usually also an admission of "Hey these guys are pretty close and I don't think that the available evidence really decides the issue either way, so for the hell of it I'm gonna put this guy ahead of this other guy," which is, of course, another objective judgment that could be mistaken.
Jesus why did I write all that ugh. I won't clutter the lr thread more, sorry.
You can't be scientifically objective about something that is inherently a matter of opinion:
"Who are the top players of the last month?" is an inherently subjective question because there is no way to precisely, accurately, scientifically "measure" the strength of each player.
On July 08 2009 20:25 Dice84 wrote: Wow, talking about Day of Upsets. 0/4 liquidbet.. haha. Ranked #10 before.. now who knows what rank I'll be... T_T
You're #23, not that bad buddy
Yeah, I just checked. Thanks for the optimistic post though. I don't have any expectations to finish first but I do hope I can at least make it in the top 10. :p
On July 08 2009 20:30 JohnBall wrote: So, is Bisu out for sure already?
I dont know which one is more worrying : 1. Jd playing really bad in his last 3 games or 2. Bisu being on the wrong side of every unorthodox strategy in the Liquipedia
On July 08 2009 20:30 JohnBall wrote: So, is Bisu out for sure already?
If GoGo beats insurance, Bisu is out. If not, tiebreak is forced between hwasin,Bisu,GoGo.
I think gogo has a pretty good shot at defeating Hwasin. He will probably try something cheesy . Will be a must watch game.
Also, I just realised that both Bisu and Jaedong could drop from this OSL and Flash is already out. I know there is a very slim chance of this happening but if all three of those do get out, it would be a very weird OSL.
It would be the perfect environment for newcoming species such as Zero's of Effort's brood.
On July 08 2009 20:30 JohnBall wrote: So, is Bisu out for sure already?
If GoGo beats insurance, Bisu is out. If not, tiebreak is forced between hwasin,Bisu,GoGo.
I think gogo has a pretty good shot at defeating Hwasin. He will probably try something cheesy . Will be a must watch game.
Also, I just realised that both Bisu and Jaedong could drop from this OSL and Flash is already out. I know there is a very slim chance of this happening but if all three of those do get out, it would be a very weird OSL.
It would be the perfect environment for newcoming species such as Zero's of Effort's brood.
On July 08 2009 20:30 JohnBall wrote: So, is Bisu out for sure already?
don't wet your pants yet
hwasin > gogo for tie breakers
If I were Hwasin, I'd just lose to go.go to avoid the embarrassment of Bisu calling me insurance yet again after Bisu wins the tie-breakers.
How sure are you that Bisu will make it out of that tie-break? He already is losing most of his matches. And what better way to break the "Insurance" tag by denying Bisu the insurance when he needs it the most. I bet Hwasin will go - "IN YOUR FACE, BISU!!" if he beats Bisu in tie-break.
Btw, I think the main reason why many hate Bisu is because they secretly want him to win but can't stand it when he loses, so they bash him. Some call it tough love...
On July 08 2009 20:30 JohnBall wrote: So, is Bisu out for sure already?
don't wet your pants yet
hwasin > gogo for tie breakers
If I were Hwasin, I'd just lose to go.go to avoid the embarrassment of Bisu calling me insurance yet again after Bisu wins the tie-breakers.
How sure are you that Bisu will make it out of that tie-break? He already is losing most of his matches. And what better way to break the "Insurance" tag by denying Bisu the insurance when he needs it the most. I bet Hwasin will go - "IN YOUR FACE, BISU!!" if he beats Bisu in tie-break.
Btw, I think the main reason why many hate Bisu is because they secretly want him to win but can't stand it when he loses, so they bash him. Some call it tough love...
Bisu destroyed the last bonjwa, savior. The least we expected of him was to become a Bonjwa himself.
On July 08 2009 20:03 latent wrote: Anyways, I really hope Bisu gets another shot to advance. Being eliminated by one of the best games of Zero's life just wouldn't be right IMO.
The funny thing is that this would be the second time Bisu got eliminated by one of the best games of Zero's life (last MSL).
On July 08 2009 22:24 lokiM wrote: is jaedong out now?=\
No.
Right now it's: Yarnc 2-1 Jaedong 2-1 Effort 1-1 Flash 0-2
Last game is Effort vs Flash. If Flash wins then Yarnc advances as #1 and Jaedong as #2. If Effort wins there's a three-way tie between Yarnc, Jaedong and Effort, so they will have to play a tie-breaker between those three from which two will advance.
3/4 liquibet. I auto-picked Yarnc and Zero, picked against BackHo for no good reason... and for some reason lost confidence at the last second and assumed Kwanro would die to wraith. Oh well.
I hope Hwasin wins, but Bisu might be in a pickle...
He has to practice a lot of PvT for MSL and OSL, but I doubt he'll practice vs Fantasy (who is most likely the best person to help him) at least until after they play in the MSL...
On July 08 2009 22:24 lokiM wrote: is jaedong out now?=\
No.
Right now it's: Yarnc 2-1 Jaedong 2-1 Effort 1-1 Flash 0-2
Last game is Effort vs Flash. If Flash wins then Yarnc advances as #1 and Jaedong as #2. If Effort wins there's a three-way tie between Yarnc, Jaedong and Effort, so they will have to play a tie-breaker between those three from which two will advance.
Watching the games, thread's tldr. But I did read comments after Yellow/JD. Give Yarnc credit for a good win. JD's ling micro said he was trying but when you're whole build is betrayed by an overlord... ZvZ is hard. And it's not like Yarnc's ZvZ is bad. His losses are often really dumb mistakes in ZvZ, not a lack of control (lol!?) or mechanics. So I think he's a legit danger to every Z no matter. Plus advancing here is definately JD's preferred route. I mean, if he wins 3-0 and forces a 3 way tie underneath, Flash is still not a heavy favorite in between Effort and Yarnc. It's definitely not easy even for Flash. Even if you're Jaedong, you wanna get the hell outta this group.
Now onto Backho TypeB~
-_-;; O, Backho must be disappointed.
Zero lol! Hero. I like him more than Effort and hope he lives up to my expectations. It's hard being Protoss. Ugh.
i got 2/4 yellow and typeb, im now back in top10. I dunno what posessed me to picked yellow over jaedong, I usually autovote him, but it turned out to be the right choice :D
Any chance Jaedong dropped that game on purpose, or at least didn't really try? Doing so does eliminate one of his biggest rivals but I figure he would have enough respect for FlaSh not to pull a dick move like that. Also, if EffOrt beats FlaSh, it'll be a 3 way tie and there's a chance he'll drop out.
On July 09 2009 01:36 B1nary wrote: Any chance Jaedong dropped that game on purpose, or at least didn't really try? Doing so does eliminate one of his biggest rivals but I figure he would have enough respect for FlaSh not to pull a dick move like that. Also, if EffOrt beats FlaSh, it'll be a 3 way tie and there's a chance he'll drop out.
Maybe him dropping two games vs Stork and Light beforehand is just a cover up so no one will suspect him losing to Yarnc on purpose. Yeah....I don't think so.
I know Flash is already out but what about Bisu? he's 1-2 right? Can he still advance? If he doesn't, OSL without 2 of the top 3 in the world is pretty gay IMO.
On July 09 2009 01:56 Xela wrote: I know Flash is already out but what about Bisu? he's 1-2 right? Can he still advance? If he doesn't, OSL without 2 of the top 3 in the world is pretty gay IMO.
Hwasin has to beat go.go. And for people saying hwasin will lose on purpose, go.go actually is the one who called Hwasin insurance in this OSL selection.
Yes; he's out. The most he can do is throw his game vs. Effort and force Jaedong into a tiebreak against Yarnc and Effort. But really, putting Jaedong in a tiebreaker against two Zergs? Yeah, that'll stop him.
Yes; he's out. The most he can do is throw his game vs. Effort and force Jaedong into a tiebreak against Yarnc and Effort. But really, putting Jaedong in a tiebreaker against two Zergs? Yeah, that'll stop him.
Fuck JD he drop vs Yarnc to get flash out.... ii just hate him a littlel more now...
Yes; he's out. The most he can do is throw his game vs. Effort and force Jaedong into a tiebreak against Yarnc and Effort. But really, putting Jaedong in a tiebreaker against two Zergs? Yeah, that'll stop him.
Fuck JD he drop vs Yarnc to get flash out.... ii just hate him a littlel more now...
You're crazy if you believe JD drops a game just to get rid of Flash
If anyone is to be blamed, it's Flash alone for playing crap TvZ.
Yes; he's out. The most he can do is throw his game vs. Effort and force Jaedong into a tiebreak against Yarnc and Effort. But really, putting Jaedong in a tiebreaker against two Zergs? Yeah, that'll stop him.
Fuck JD he drop vs Yarnc to get flash out.... ii just hate him a littlel more now...
Well personally, this is what I think. JD probably didn't mean to drop on purpose, but he certainly didn't stop himself from dropping it. What I mean is, JD knew he was going to advance anyway so he knew the loss here didn't count much, so he didn't practice for this ZvZ as much as Yarnc probably did. And this predication is supported by the fact that JD went 9 pool, 1 hatch lair, which is semi-risky. I think 9 pool in general is a gamble because if your opponent didn't go 9 pool or 12 hatch, they have better econ than you.
So maybe JD thought Effort or Flash was more of a threat to his OSL trophy than Yarnc was? Which is probably true. But I certainly wouldn't think he would do it on purpose or make it obvious because from some videos I've seen, he is friends with Flash in real life
Yes; he's out. The most he can do is throw his game vs. Effort and force Jaedong into a tiebreak against Yarnc and Effort. But really, putting Jaedong in a tiebreaker against two Zergs? Yeah, that'll stop him.
Fuck JD he drop vs Yarnc to get flash out.... ii just hate him a littlel more now...
I'm sure JD had every intention of winning. Why would he put himself in a situation where he may have to go to tiebreak with Yarnc and Effort? If it does go to tiebreak and even if it's ZvZ, it's still more games on his already overloaded schedule.
Yes; he's out. The most he can do is throw his game vs. Effort and force Jaedong into a tiebreak against Yarnc and Effort. But really, putting Jaedong in a tiebreaker against two Zergs? Yeah, that'll stop him.
Fuck JD he drop vs Yarnc to get flash out.... ii just hate him a littlel more now...
I'm sure JD had every intention of winning. Why would he put himself in a situation where he may have to go to tiebreak with Yarnc and Effort? If it does go to tiebreak and even if it's ZvZ, it's still more games on his already overloaded schedule.
and its more likely that flash will lose now, because he has no reason to prepare
Yes; he's out. The most he can do is throw his game vs. Effort and force Jaedong into a tiebreak against Yarnc and Effort. But really, putting Jaedong in a tiebreaker against two Zergs? Yeah, that'll stop him.
Fuck JD he drop vs Yarnc to get flash out.... ii just hate him a littlel more now...
Well personally, this is what I think. JD probably didn't mean to drop on purpose, but he certainly didn't stop himself from dropping it. What I mean is, JD knew he was going to advance anyway so he knew the loss here didn't count much, so he didn't practice for this ZvZ as much as Yarnc probably did. And this predication is supported by the fact that JD went 9 pool, 1 hatch lair, which is semi-risky. I think 9 pool in general is a gamble because if your opponent didn't go 9 pool or 12 hatch, they have better econ than you.
So maybe JD thought Effort or Flash was more of a threat to his OSL trophy than Yarnc was? Which is probably true. But I certainly wouldn't think he would do it on purpose or make it obvious because from some videos I've seen, he is friends with Flash in real life
U,U well i think your right... I over react sorry guys, but come on flash out of OSL U,U
Haha, really funny to all those saying Jaedong droped a game.. Of all players i like Flash the most, but he droped this OSL by loosing 2 games before this so no point in blaming anyone.. Its a game.
oh man bisu played pretty bad. zero harass, wtf was that. the bisu i know is applying pressure all the game, forcing a sunk/lings. zero could pump drones ultrahardcore for like 45 minutes ;/
On July 09 2009 04:52 Samurai- wrote: Haha, really funny to all those saying Jaedong droped a game.. Of all players i like Flash the most, but he droped this OSL by loosing 2 games before this so no point in blaming anyone.. Its a game.
For you maybe, not for Flash or Jaedong or any of the pros.
On July 09 2009 04:52 Samurai- wrote: Haha, really funny to all those saying Jaedong droped a game.. Of all players i like Flash the most, but he droped this OSL by loosing 2 games before this so no point in blaming anyone.. Its a game.
You say that as if it means nothing.
If that's what you're implying then you are a complete moron. You don't train 10 hours a day and get paid for "just a game"
I think he's trying to say that there's no need to get all serious and point fingers here. It's all in goodwill what the gamers are doing. Though I could be wrong, of course.
It's Upset City. The 3 big names all fell. Who would have thought that? Surprisingly, I got 2/4 on my LB.
I'm surprised though. After watching that game, I was expecting some person to post, "HEY BISU WHERE ARE YOUR TEMPLARS!" Shocking to say, there wasn't. Whether that's a good thing or a bad thing is left to interpretation.
On July 09 2009 05:19 Djin)ftw( wrote: oh man bisu played pretty bad. zero harass, wtf was that. the bisu i know is applying pressure all the game, forcing a sunk/lings. zero could pump drones ultrahardcore for like 45 minutes ;/
Leta's loss meant nothing he was locked in #1 seed and kwanro was relegated to #4 in that group, it was essentially for shits and giggles like GGplay vs Jaedong last year.
jaedong is 80% ZvZ... not 100%! he does loose a few every now and then... which means that those of you yelling "thrown game" and "slump" will have to do it twice for every 10 zergs he plays against!
On July 09 2009 08:25 MuffinDude wrote: Bisu and jaedong are failing now. They arn't as dominant as they were before.
On July 09 2009 08:07 NicolBolas wrote: So, let's see how our top 3 players are doing:
Flash: Out of the OSL; tomorrow's game is to decide if there's a tiebreaker between the 3 guys who all beat him.
Bisu: go.go must beat Hwasin to keep Bisu's OSL hopes alive.
Jaedong: Worst-case, will have to fight a 3-way tiebreaker against two Zergs. One of whom he is going to play in a Bo3 at GOM on Sunday.
BTW, is it me or would StarCraft do better if these tournaments were spread out a little? I mean this week, each of these guys will have had to:
1: Play in Proleague games.
2: Prepare for their GOM games (except Bisu).
3: Prepare for their OSL Bo1 game.
4: Prepare for the first part of their MSL Bo3 game.
That's a lot to ask of people.
Actually, Hwasin has to beat go.go in order for Bisu to not get eliminated. If Hwasin wins, there is a 3-way tiebreaker between Bisu, go.go, and Hwasin.
It really sucks as a fan, when your player's fate isn't in their own hands. COME HWASIN, GO.GO CALLED YOU INSURANCE, BEAT HIS ASS.
On July 09 2009 05:19 Djin)ftw( wrote: oh man bisu played pretty bad. zero harass, wtf was that. the bisu i know is applying pressure all the game, forcing a sunk/lings. zero could pump drones ultrahardcore for like 45 minutes ;/
Bias much? What game were you watching?
To be fair, he really did not harass *at all*. He still didn't play BAD just not GREAT.
Also, I think Dark Archons are a poor counter to queens, especially if a map has cliffs. Some sairs are usually better I think.. And get reavers, since you can't brood those.
On July 09 2009 05:19 Djin)ftw( wrote: oh man bisu played pretty bad. zero harass, wtf was that. the bisu i know is applying pressure all the game, forcing a sunk/lings. zero could pump drones ultrahardcore for like 45 minutes ;/
Bias much? What game were you watching?
To be fair, he really did not harass *at all*. He still didn't play BAD just not GREAT.
Also, I think Dark Archons are a poor counter to queens, especially if a map has cliffs. Some sairs are usually better I think.. And get reavers, since you can't brood those.
Shouldn't DAs be the counter to queens, since you can just feedback them, and feedback has very long range?
On July 09 2009 05:19 Djin)ftw( wrote: oh man bisu played pretty bad. zero harass, wtf was that. the bisu i know is applying pressure all the game, forcing a sunk/lings. zero could pump drones ultrahardcore for like 45 minutes ;/
Bias much? What game were you watching?
To be fair, he really did not harass *at all*. He still didn't play BAD just not GREAT.
Also, I think Dark Archons are a poor counter to queens, especially if a map has cliffs. Some sairs are usually better I think.. And get reavers, since you can't brood those.
Shouldn't DAs be the counter to queens, since you can just feedback them, and feedback has very long range?
Broodling also has a good range, so you need to see the Queen before it casts it, which isn't easy on a map with cliffs like FA pointed out.
On July 09 2009 05:19 Djin)ftw( wrote: oh man bisu played pretty bad. zero harass, wtf was that. the bisu i know is applying pressure all the game, forcing a sunk/lings. zero could pump drones ultrahardcore for like 45 minutes ;/
Bias much? What game were you watching?
To be fair, he really did not harass *at all*. He still didn't play BAD just not GREAT.
Also, I think Dark Archons are a poor counter to queens, especially if a map has cliffs. Some sairs are usually better I think.. And get reavers, since you can't brood those.
Shouldn't DAs be the counter to queens, since you can just feedback them, and feedback has very long range?
Well, in my limited experience vs queens, trying to make DAs to counter Queens is a lost cause - half the time you won't even kill them with your feedback because they didn't have enough mana. Plus, with parasite/overlords, it's just so easy for them to see where you are anyway. They are great vs defilers however, as defilers are slower, can always be killed when they have enough mana for a spell, cost a ton, etc.
Switching to sair/dt/reaver and playing defensively means you get a force that can sort of take care of itself on the defence, while he'll have his hands full saving his queens from your sairs AND controlling his army.
Of course, with progamer multitask and the fact that zero's army had a good percentage of hydras, he'd probably still handle it pretty well
But I think my point about switching to a more turtlish gameplan is still valid, and reavers are always good anyway!
On July 09 2009 11:27 Frits wrote: Haha wow I expected Zero to win but the way he did it in is just insane. Zero is so underrated, he was completely overlooked last powerrank.
I'm a big Zero fan but his problem is his damn consistency.
He often plays as good as Effort and Jaedong and then decides to COMPLETELY SUCK for awhile for some god awful reason.
ZerO is probably the most underrated Zerg out there but until he starts to consistently win like someone of his skill damn well should that will continue.
I love everyone coming into this thread to comment on how JD is sucking, without even considering that by losing this game he eliminated Flash from the OSL
On July 09 2009 11:27 Frits wrote: Haha wow I expected Zero to win but the way he did it in is just insane. Zero is so underrated, he was completely overlooked last powerrank.
I'm a big Zero fan but his problem is his damn consistency.
He often plays as good as Effort and Jaedong and then decides to COMPLETELY SUCK for awhile for some god awful reason.
ZerO is probably the most underrated Zerg out there but until he starts to consistently win like someone of his skill damn well should that will continue.
I like Zero the best out of all the zergs because Calm doesn't play enough for me to really like his style and Effort is almost too good. And because I'm superficial and I think Zero>Effort in terms of appearance.
On July 09 2009 08:35 darktreb wrote: When people ask me "who lost when Jaedong played Yarnc" I answer "Flash"
On July 09 2009 13:07 JWD wrote: I love everyone coming into this thread to comment on how JD is sucking, without even considering that by losing this game he eliminated Flash from the OSL
Not everyone agrees with your pet theory; that doesn't necessarily mean that they didn't consider it. but in any case if it was just this one game, then maybe. but how do you explain the two before it, where he played just as badly even though he had no reason to drop those? so the evidence points more to tired/slump than to conspiracy imho.
On July 09 2009 05:19 Djin)ftw( wrote: oh man bisu played pretty bad. zero harass, wtf was that. the bisu i know is applying pressure all the game, forcing a sunk/lings. zero could pump drones ultrahardcore for like 45 minutes ;/
Bias much? What game were you watching?
To be fair, he really did not harass *at all*. He still didn't play BAD just not GREAT.
Also, I think Dark Archons are a poor counter to queens, especially if a map has cliffs. Some sairs are usually better I think.. And get reavers, since you can't brood those.
Shouldn't DAs be the counter to queens, since you can just feedback them, and feedback has very long range?
Well, in my limited experience vs queens, trying to make DAs to counter Queens is a lost cause - half the time you won't even kill them with your feedback because they didn't have enough mana. Plus, with parasite/overlords, it's just so easy for them to see where you are anyway. They are great vs defilers however, as defilers are slower, can always be killed when they have enough mana for a spell, cost a ton, etc.
Switching to sair/dt/reaver and playing defensively means you get a force that can sort of take care of itself on the defence, while he'll have his hands full saving his queens from your sairs AND controlling his army.
Of course, with progamer multitask and the fact that zero's army had a good percentage of hydras, he'd probably still handle it pretty well
But I think my point about switching to a more turtlish gameplan is still valid, and reavers are always good anyway!
Its true that feedback probably wouldn't kill the queen, but it would at least render them unusable for the time being. Personally I never have fought against queens in a serious PvZ before, but it just seems that DAs would just render the queens useless, or at least it would come down to race of "who can cast their spell first", and feedback is cheaper/free. Then again, I guess the cliffs on HBR would help out the queens alot, so maybe you are right.
On July 09 2009 13:07 JWD wrote: I love everyone coming into this thread to comment on how JD is sucking, without even considering that by losing this game he eliminated Flash from the OSL
Well, not everyone believes in your conspiracy theory, that JD would risk dropping out of OSL only to eliminate Flash, who is doing poorly in TvZ atm. JD is not invincible to Yarnc and Effort.
On July 09 2009 04:52 Samurai- wrote: Haha, really funny to all those saying Jaedong droped a game.. Of all players i like Flash the most, but he droped this OSL by loosing 2 games before this so no point in blaming anyone.. Its a game.
You say that as if it means nothing.
If that's what you're implying then you are a complete moron. You don't train 10 hours a day and get paid for "just a game"
Wtf, and 2 others who answered to my quote, no wonder i dont talk much on tl anymore..
There are people in this thread who are saying that jeadong droped his game on purpose.. What i wanted to say is that i laugh at those people, because if there is anyone to blame for droping flash out of this OSL is flash him self, since he lost 2 games prior to the game that happened today, so there is no point blaming jaedong that he droped the game to screw flash over( Flash had his chance, he was 0:2 already). And by saying "its a game" i only ment that things like winning and loosing happens all the time, because that is what gaming is all about.. Winning and loosing.. And there was no point for Jaedong droping the game since he could risk elimination.
ffs.. next time read and stop randomly replying to words in the sentence..
On July 09 2009 13:07 JWD wrote: I love everyone coming into this thread to comment on how JD is sucking, without even considering that by losing this game he eliminated Flash from the OSL
Well, not everyone believes in your conspiracy theory, that JD would risk dropping out of OSL only to eliminate Flash, who is doing poorly in TvZ atm. JD is not invincible to Yarnc and Effort.
This. Also, why would JD want to play MORE games than necessary atm?
On July 09 2009 13:07 JWD wrote: I love everyone coming into this thread to comment on how JD is sucking, without even considering that by losing this game he eliminated Flash from the OSL
Not everyone agrees with your pet theory; that doesn't necessarily mean that they didn't consider it. but in any case if it was just this one game, then maybe. but how do you explain the two before it, where he played just as badly even though he had no reason to drop those? so the evidence points more to tired/slump than to conspiracy imho.
Yes, coming into this thread and being alarmed that Jaedong lost to Yarnc does necessarily mean that they didn't consider he had a strong incentive to do so.
On July 09 2009 13:07 JWD wrote: I love everyone coming into this thread to comment on how JD is sucking, without even considering that by losing this game he eliminated Flash from the OSL
Not everyone agrees with your pet theory; that doesn't necessarily mean that they didn't consider it. but in any case if it was just this one game, then maybe. but how do you explain the two before it, where he played just as badly even though he had no reason to drop those? so the evidence points more to tired/slump than to conspiracy imho.
Yes, coming into this thread and being alarmed that Jaedong lost to Yarnc does necessarily mean that they didn't consider he had a strong incentive to do so.
Or maybe it was already ruled out as a ridiculously stupid idea and something JD wouldn't do. There's a difference.
On July 09 2009 13:07 JWD wrote: I love everyone coming into this thread to comment on how JD is sucking, without even considering that by losing this game he eliminated Flash from the OSL
Not everyone agrees with your pet theory; that doesn't necessarily mean that they didn't consider it. but in any case if it was just this one game, then maybe. but how do you explain the two before it, where he played just as badly even though he had no reason to drop those? so the evidence points more to tired/slump than to conspiracy imho.
Yes, coming into this thread and being alarmed that Jaedong lost to Yarnc does necessarily mean that they didn't consider he had a strong incentive to do so.
If you're so inclined to believe that JD lost on purpose, I'm guessing that the game won't be accounted for in the next PR right?
Now Flash could lose on purpose and force a 3-way tiebreaker - and both Effort and Yarnc are capable of beating JD in a bo1. JD losing on purpose and allowing for that to happen seems slightly silly.
I will say this about the Jaedong game. He chose the absolute WORST build order if he wanted to throw the game. Had Yarnc gone 12 hatch, Jaedong can't lose even if he wants to.
The best way to throw a ZvZ is to go 12 hatch. There are so many ways to lose, not the least of which is simply dying to 9 pool. Even against 12 pool, you can always time a ling attack late so his mutas pop up just in time to screw you over.
1: It seems very obvious that the outcome of this match for Jaedong is essentially irrelevant. Worst-case, he has to do a tiebreaker in his best matchup. So Jaedong had zero incentive to practice and prepare for this match vs. Yarnc, especially with other matches in the wings.
2: Jaedong didn't lose this match on purpose. We've seen what Jaedong looks like when he deliberately throws a game (see Jaedong's 5-pool vs. SkyHigh in the WL finals. Worst possible execution of a 5-pool). This game wasn't it.
Jaedong cuts everything as close as possible, sometimes suicidally so. Doing that requires absolute perfect control at every moment, lest everything cascade into badness.
The simple fact is that Jaedong's tired. When you're tired, you can't maintain the focus necessary to play things the way Jaedong does. He'll be less tired when the tiebreaker comes up (if Flash chooses to lose to/is beaten by Effort); he only has one Proleague game next week.
On July 10 2009 03:33 Sigrun wrote: If you're so inclined to believe that JD lost on purpose, I'm guessing that the game won't be accounted for in the next PR right?
That didn't stop him from taking Jaedong's obvious loss on purpose against SkyHigh in the WL finals into account.
JD losing on purpose and allowing for that to happen seems slightly silly.
Why? It's a perfectly legitimate stratagem. While Effort and Yarnc are capable of beating Jaedong, would you give them good odds on it? Honestly, who's more likely to beat Jaedong: Flash, Effort, or Yarnc? Taking Flash out of the possible equation for the OSL is a reasonable thing to do.
Again, that's not saying that he in fact deliberately lost this game; I don't think he did. But It wouldn't be unreasonable for him to do so.
What? You're saying Jaedong purposely did not all-kill CJ in the WL Finals? What could his motive possibly have been for this? Why would he not want revenge on SkyHigh for their earlier WL meeting?
On July 09 2009 13:07 JWD wrote: I love everyone coming into this thread to comment on how JD is sucking, without even considering that by losing this game he eliminated Flash from the OSL
Not everyone agrees with your pet theory; that doesn't necessarily mean that they didn't consider it. but in any case if it was just this one game, then maybe. but how do you explain the two before it, where he played just as badly even though he had no reason to drop those? so the evidence points more to tired/slump than to conspiracy imho.
Yes, coming into this thread and being alarmed that Jaedong lost to Yarnc does necessarily mean that they didn't consider he had a strong incentive to do so.
If you're so inclined to believe that JD lost on purpose, I'm guessing that the game won't be accounted for in the next PR right?
Of course there's no way to be sure that JD lost on purpose, so I'll just discount the game heavily when evaluating his recent results.
On July 09 2009 13:07 JWD wrote: I love everyone coming into this thread to comment on how JD is sucking, without even considering that by losing this game he eliminated Flash from the OSL
Not everyone agrees with your pet theory; that doesn't necessarily mean that they didn't consider it. but in any case if it was just this one game, then maybe. but how do you explain the two before it, where he played just as badly even though he had no reason to drop those? so the evidence points more to tired/slump than to conspiracy imho.
Yes, coming into this thread and being alarmed that Jaedong lost to Yarnc does necessarily mean that they didn't consider he had a strong incentive to do so.
No it doesn't: you can consider something and dismiss it.
In this case, there is a very strong reason to dismiss the "thrown game" theory: it explains only 1 out of the last 3 games. You will need to come up with a different explanation for the other two. Whereas the explanation that he is tired and not playing up to standard accounts for all three; therefore by the principle of simplicity, it is the better explanation. It's not like Y[arnc] is such a bad player that even a tired Jaedong shouldn't lose to him: he'd beaten Jaedong and come very close to beating him before, and he had the build-order advantage.
On July 10 2009 07:09 qrs wrote: In this case, there is a very strong reason to dismiss the "thrown game" theory: it explains only 1 out of the last 3 games. You will need to come up with a different explanation for the other two. Whereas the explanation that he is tired and not playing up to standard accounts for all three; therefore by the principle of simplicity, it is the better explanation.
I don't believe that Jaedong threw this game, but your logic here doesn't work.
The reason for losing this game does not have to be linked to the previous two losses. Shocking though it may be, sometimes great players just lose games. After all, Jaedong doesn't have a 100% winrate, even ZvZ. So clearly, he can lose games.
Plus there is the simple fact that there is something to be gained from losing this game: knocking Flash out of the OSL. Flash is far more dangerous to Jaedong in a Bo3 or Bo5 than Effort or Yarnc.
Again, I don't think Jaedong lost the game on purpose, but it isn't something that can be automatically dismissed either.
that doesnt constitute a slump at all -.- neither does losing 3 games in a row
Commentators seem rather surprised though
Kim Carrier: "It's shocking that JD is in a 3-game losing streak."
Is the idea that JD would throw his game too taboo for them to discuss? That seems like the most obvious explanation for this loss.
It would hurt the image of Starcraft progaming if they did.
Korean progamers blatantly dropped games at WCG time and time again to gain a favorable advantage. So what? It's for their best interest in the long run. Starleague protects the image of the league and their players well. Starleague gives off a shiny spotless image of their stars. Ha, "Path of the Night" of proves otherwise. Again, so what? They too are human. Starcraft is like any other sports. There will be dropping games, human imperfections, and even cheating.
Jaedong didn't lose the game on purpose. People saying "but his Muta micro sucked" are missing the point - by that point in the game JD had already essentially given up since the game was borderline meaningless and he was at a HUGE disadvantage.
Haven't you all had games on iccup where you weren't really feeling into it from the start and then fall behind quickly and then just play it out physically even though mentally you're already out of it? I would imagine it was much closer to that. Certainly if the game meant more, Jaedong might have played more desperately (which is often necessary to win), but it's way different from throwing a game.
EPT
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