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On April 17 2009 16:55 Day[9] wrote:Show nested quote +On April 17 2009 16:48 Laurent wrote:
Sean,
I lashed out at only one community member who finds it easiest to use me as the reason that everything sucks. If defending yourself against constant attacks is wrong, then im wrong. I wont apologize for sticking up for myself.
Lashing out at ANY community member, ESPECIALLY one going to great lengths to help organize your tournament, is absolutely 100% unacceptable. That said, I'd like to point out to the ENTIRE community why Laurent's above post encapsulates the problem. In his FIRST response to this thread, Laurent says nothing about the tournament, nothing about what he's doing to fix WCG, nothing about helping the community. Instead, Laurent defends himself. Moreover, he defends himself in a situation where he is undeniably in the wrong.
this is a great point, Laurent's initial response to Day's post just proved his case...
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On April 17 2009 19:34 Lachrymose wrote:Show nested quote +On April 17 2009 19:27 Nal_CrayOn wrote:
...;;
no lan-latency?? do they even know about mutal micro??
you cannot win z vs t (idra level) without mutals...
hope wcg-usa follows the korean sc even a "bit".
you think getting murdered by latency-lurkers and not being able to dodge scourge is more fun?
Not to be off topic but TvZ is rly rly ez without mutas being effective. I hope your boycotting results in WCG fulfilling your demands  , it would be a shame to see a grand final of dino vs lastshadow 
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Little history about WCG Switzerland (only once or twice held for SC/BW).
Organisators had no clue about anything - BUT they let us handle the whole event basically by ourselfes (yay casual organisators which had the guts to actually say that he has no clue about SC/BW and appreciated any help).
Whole event was very fluent (but Switzerland is small and we could bring the whole thing down at 1 Lan, was more a community meeting with tons of awkward CS/Egoshooter guys around  ).
Problem:
1 Chinese was there, his nick was "Lyun)Toss" iirc (studied in Switzerland or something, he did not speak a single word of german or French and basically no english)... Organisation decided he could play (we argued against it). Seriously, he dominated the finals with Corsair/Reaver and no one of us saw this strat executed to a decent level ever before... crushing.
He steamrolled nearly everyone (I think he lost about 2 games in total, games that didn't count and where played for fun). He was like 6 month's to 1 year ahead in the SC/BW *evolution* :p).
Later WCG decided that he can't play for Switzerland (-.-)
Switzerland sends no one.
Nice -.-.
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Signed.
I'm sick of seeing WCG failing harder and harder each year.
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United States43756 Posts
On April 17 2009 14:56 Laurent wrote:
Also the reason the maps have been stagnant is because Blizzard wont add any new maps to battle.net for WCG.
Obv Blizzard need to make some new maps and then upload them onto battle.net so we can host games on them.
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Is Laurent the kfu guy from last year or no
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You should take things into your hands, organize a surogate tournament for WCG, spread the word on every single major site.
Have the winner of this tournament(or the top3 or whatever the number) be the only one to show up for the official WCG.
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I hope you succeed in this. I hate how WCG treats gamers like shit because they can, its time the community unites and stands up for a good cause. Hopefully this will make wcg organizators realize they're screwing this up big time.
I cant believe they're making so many excuses about not having enough tools like maps, ah, lan latency, when this has been already out in the game for like 1++ year? They just fucking suck at organizing and they wont admit it.
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What about creating a shadow qualifier and have all the top players play in that, organized by themselves. You have to do everything WCG USA can't without their resources. Have an official page where people sign up. Either have a ladder for unseeded players or a large qualifier bracket thing. And having offline events is almost impossible since there is no expenses covered and the US is damn huge. Takes some leadership and you probably can get some support from iccup or TL.
And then WCG USA can either take that player, backed by basically all USA SC players of any name, or some random nobody that won the official event. If WCG USA refuses then just go to WCG worldwide and play the Idra-card or something.
Anyway, all this stuff only works if all players stick together. Same for a boycott.
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iNcontroL
USA29055 Posts
as expected I got emails back this morning..
They really do care and really want to be what we want them to be. We just need to understand WCG has to cater to a lot of bullcrap and we need to work with them in order to get an agreeable resolution.
They are really pursuing the lan latency issue amongst other things.
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I would be so happy if we had WCG here in Finland. Wouldn't care at all even tho maps were outdated, no lan lat or poor leadership.
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On April 17 2009 16:37 Day[9] wrote:Show nested quote +On April 17 2009 16:33 Louder wrote:
Unfortunately, we have nothing else in the USA. What can we do? Ignore the one event we have just because it's badly run? I think our only choice is to put up with it until SC2 brings bigger and better things. I look forward to practicing for WCG USA every year, and EVERY year I grow increasingly more frustrated w/ the organization. As I said, it breaks my heart to have to boycott the tournament, but I see no other option. If you want to play in the tournament, I totally understand. But, I think a boycott will help make WCG a better tournament. If you goto the open in NY, definitely say something
I intend to
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I'm backing this.
I won't watch, or even read about WCG USA until we see some change.
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it was LinYu)ToSs, that guy was really good. I remember that story Veir, that was from the preliminaries in 2002.
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In line with almost all of the thread, yeah wcg sucks but it is a huge tourney and they dont care so there is really nothing else we can do. The best to hope for is to have enough good players against it so there are 2 people who support your cause in the finals, and then in the finals just do stupid stuff
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WCG should just sit down with me for 30 minutes and I will tell them how to run a good, lan latency / AH / good maps / fun tournament where everyone is happy. I honestly could have ran a better tournament when I was 13....
Seriously....
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Korea (South)11595 Posts
i think a better way to boycott would be to play until the WCG USA Finals and the first match, when the game starts, no one does anything, no mining, nothing. Just sit there. That will get our voice out even more in my opinion. I mean the RO8, very first game. Everyone sits down and doesn't participate in the horribly ran tournament. I think that'd be pretty good at getting the idea that WCG USA really does need to change.
WCG USA needs people who actually understand the game, and how the games are about. I mean they ARE a tournament about COMPETITIVE GAMING. So why don't they want the atmosphere to be as competitive as possible? I mean, the whole point of this tournament is to find the best players, and unite gamers around the world. If they want to achieve this, they will have to understand the competitive issues of the community.
I mean, they should have referees who know the game, and people who work for WCG to have a spirit to get the best competitive environment. They get paid from their sponsors, who get paid from their viewers. So, shouldn't they adhere to the viewers wants? Most of the viewers will be the Korean population, then the foreigners. The Korean community for starcraft, are even more competitive than anything you'll find here on TL.net. They want to have the best players, and the most enjoyable games.
In order to achieve the best players, you'll have to figure out how to get the best players. And agreeing to get the best competitive environment for the top tier american players. This will be agreeing with the communities needs, and they're not even that tough. All they need is to use their FREE resources, such as TL.net's maps which can be found here. and the Chaos launcher, or even better, the utilization of the ICCUP ladder. I'm sure just an email to the organizers of ICCUP will gladly help out with WCG. The community wants WCG to be ran as perfectly as possible, WCG should use what we have to offer for FREE.
/rant
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On April 18 2009 02:42 CaucasianAsian wrote:In order to achieve the best players, you'll have to figure out how to get the best players. And agreeing to get the best competitive environment for the top tier american players. This will be agreeing with the communities needs, and they're not even that tough. All they need is to use their FREE resources, such as TL.net's maps which can be found here. and the Chaos launcher, or even better, the utilization of the ICCUP ladder. I'm sure just an email to the organizers of ICCUP will gladly help out with WCG. The community wants WCG to be ran as perfectly as possible, WCG should use what we have to offer for FREE. /rant
WCG is a brand and a business with money invested in properties they consider "competitors" of ICCup and the like, which is a root part of this situation. They seem to develop their products in the same way they run events - like a blind man leading a retard - with no feedback from the people who matter: users (us). If they were a business that relied on customers to buy things to support them, rather than through sponsorship/advertising deals, they'd have failed a failing fail 10 years ago.
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On April 17 2009 23:16 Kwark wrote:Show nested quote +On April 17 2009 14:56 Laurent wrote:
Also the reason the maps have been stagnant is because Blizzard wont add any new maps to battle.net for WCG. Obv Blizzard need to make some new maps and then upload them onto battle.net so we can host games on them.
lol did he actually say that?
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Fixing WCG wouldn't even be hard. For one they could just install Iccup on every comp and play it over that, I mean how hard is that? They could also change the map pool so it included maps like Desti, Andro, Col and Python. Those are all well known maps and I don't think many people would mind them, how hard is that?
About the economic thing, this would cost no money, maybe 1 hour of time but thats it. They would make more money, as more people would come to the event.
Unless WCG has a vendetta against running a good tournament (or Iccup) then this could work easily.
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EPT
