EPT[WL] FINALS: CJ vs OZ - Page 13
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OneOther
United States10774 Posts
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Zozma
United States1626 Posts
Effort < Jaedong KWANRO > JAEDONG | ||
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scwizard
United States1195 Posts
 Jaedong > EffOrtJaedong >  sKyHighJaedong >  Much or someoneJaedong > Iris on RH3Seriously though Iris and sKyHigh are strong players on good maps playing terran, and having to face down two of them will be a challenge for Jaedong. I don't believe the same can be said of KTF. Luxury was zerg and tired, and fOrGG has been in very sharp decline. So if Jaedong is overconfident (which he is) and if Iris and sKyHigh have been practicing their asses off (which I hope they have), and if Jaedong beating flash was just the way the dice fell, instead of Jaedong ascending to the level of bonjwa (I mean the game against flash was hardly one sided) then there is a strong possibility that Jaedong will get taken out. | ||
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Dgtl
Canada889 Posts
 . Hope I can | ||
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Jyvblamo
Canada13788 Posts
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anderoo
Canada1876 Posts
fuck all kills, finals need suspense | ||
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Sunburn
Canada70 Posts
Though I never get it right. 'Cept now. | ||
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NicolBolas
United States1388 Posts
On March 28 2009 10:54 JL13 wrote: CJ just about always uses Iris on SCPR, so if Effort loses, I'd definitely expect Iris on Set2. Yeah, but this isn't "always;" this is Jaedong. And between Iris and SkyHigh, only SkyHigh has gotten a win from Jaedong. Denigrate that win as "cheese" if you wish; it's still a win. And that's all it takes. CJ will put up SkyHigh because he's got the better chance to take Jaedong down, and SCPR is the strongest TvZ map outside of RH3. What concerns me most is this: CJ knows that Jaedong will have prepared for ZvZ. They know that Jaedong will be expecting SkyHigh and Iris in the second and third sets. So what happens if they don't do that? I know SCPR and Andromeda are lousy maps for PvZ, and the Jaedong imbalance certainly doesn't help. But what if they slip a Protoss player onto Andromeda? Jaedong hasn't played a ZvP in weeks now, since he schooled Stork a while back. Now, it'd be ludicrous to think that his ZvP has atrophied to nothing, but he must be out of practice to some degree in ZvP. If it gets to game 4, CJ must put Savior in, no matter what. If it gets to game 4, that means both SkyHigh and Iris were taken out, and the only other player on CJ with the skill to reverse-all-kill is Savior. Yes, they'll be playing to Jaedong's strong matchup, but what choice do they have? On March 28 2009 11:27 Zozma wrote: You guys are underestimating this possibility: Jaedong > EffOrtJaedong > sKyHighJaedong > Much or someoneand then Jaedong < Iris on RH3HiyA < Irisand then all that's left are the scrubs. Iris and sKyHigh could be reversed here as well. They wouldn't put Hiya v Iris on Colesseum II; they'd employ BackHo instead. At the very least, it would help tire Iris out for the eventual Hiya v Iris match. On March 28 2009 11:58 Ideas wrote: prediction: Much[gm] to at least attempt to snipe JD with a cheese on chupung.No way. You don't throw a Protoss player on a Zerg-favoring ZvP map against Jaedong. Not unless it's a desparation move, which is why it should wait until set 3. Give SkyHigh or Iris their chance at the snipe before you let the Protoss have a go at it. Protoss cheese works anywhere. | ||
JWD
United States12607 Posts
It's unclear whether BackHo is ready for playtime again yet (he's in the MSL Prelims, but not by choice), and something tells me OZ will not want to just throw him into the WL Finals after more than a month of not playing on TV. I think a more likely play is Young. Something to consider is that OZ's coaching must not have known exactly when BackHo would be back from his injury, so they probably prepared to play the rest of WL without him. That means grooming other Protosses - even if BackHo is ready, Young may play simply because he has been prepping for this spot for weeks. Also, are you saying that Iris will come out on Andromeda if JD is still up? I don't think so...I think CJ will save Iris for RH3. If JD takes it that far, they will need all the map imba they can get to take him out - and they don't want to send Savior against his ZvZ. No way. I think if we do see a JD all-kill, it will look like this: JD > EffOrt JD > sKyHigh JD > Movie JD > Iris | ||
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scwizard
United States1195 Posts
Savior will be sent in to mop up if Jaedong gets sniped probably. | ||
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Dromar
United States2145 Posts
Top 5 All-time ELO: (from TLPD of course) Name - Race - Team - Current ELO - Peak ELO (P)Bisu 김택용 P SK Telecom T1 2267 pts 2353 pts (T)Flash 이영호 T KTF MagicNs 2244 pts 2336 pts (T)iloveoov 최연성 T SK Telecom T1 2045 pts 2329 pts (Z)Jaedong 이제동 Z Hwaseung Oz 2328 pts 2328 pts (Z)sAviOr 마재윤 Z CJ Entus 2109 pts 2301 pts He's 26 points from being all-time highest ELO. How many points are generally won/lost in a game? | ||
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Geo.Rion
7377 Posts
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Lebesgue
4542 Posts
It is match CJ vs Jaedong. Jaedong is on a roll now but I hope CJ will win. | ||
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Dromar
United States2145 Posts
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Warrior Madness
Canada3791 Posts
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OSWater
United States1343 Posts
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FranzF1
Chile1710 Posts
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JL13
United States1384 Posts
On March 28 2009 14:04 NicolBolas wrote: Yeah, but this isn't "always;" this is Jaedong. And between Iris and SkyHigh, only SkyHigh has gotten a win from Jaedong. Denigrate that win as "cheese" if you wish; it's still a win. And that's all it takes. CJ will put up SkyHigh because he's got the better chance to take Jaedong down, and SCPR is the strongest TvZ map outside of RH3. What concerns me most is this: CJ knows that Jaedong will have prepared for ZvZ. They know that Jaedong will be expecting SkyHigh and Iris in the second and third sets. So what happens if they don't do that? I know SCPR and Andromeda are lousy maps for PvZ, and the Jaedong imbalance certainly doesn't help. But what if they slip a Protoss player onto Andromeda? Jaedong hasn't played a ZvP in weeks now, since he schooled Stork a while back. Now, it'd be ludicrous to think that his ZvP has atrophied to nothing, but he must be out of practice to some degree in ZvP. If it gets to game 4, CJ must put Savior in, no matter what. If it gets to game 4, that means both SkyHigh and Iris were taken out, and the only other player on CJ with the skill to reverse-all-kill is Savior. Yes, they'll be playing to Jaedong's strong matchup, but what choice do they have? Yes, you do have a strong point to make. Personally, I see Iris as the stronger player because he is more experienced in ultra high-profile matches. Is this SkyHigh's first ProLeague playoffs? Iris has also played in OSL finals, etc. Tbh, I will not be surprised at all if we see Skyhigh on SCPR but if I were the coach, I'd go with Iris who's 5-0 on the map in WL rather than Skyhigh, who hasn't played on SCPR since January. I doubt they'd slip protoss with the doom map: RH3 just ahead on the following set and especially with Hiya still remaining. Just like the last time, CJ played against Oz, it is up for the CJ Terran line-up to pull out this win. We could see Skyhigh on set4. I believe he's capable of reverse AK. But I've stated already why I think Savior is CJ's ace for this match (Page 12). | ||
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Divinek
Canada4045 Posts
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NicolBolas
United States1388 Posts
On March 28 2009 14:13 JWD wrote: It's unclear whether BackHo is ready for playtime again yet (he's in the MSL Prelims, but not by choice), and something tells me OZ will not want to just throw him into the WL Finals after more than a month of not playing on TV. I think a more likely play is Young. A fair point. Though I don't think Young is ready to go up against CJ. That basically leaves OZ without a functioning Protoss. On March 28 2009 14:13 JWD wrote: Also, are you saying that Iris will come out on Andromeda if JD is still up? I don't think so...I think CJ will save Iris for RH3. If JD takes it that far, they will need all the map imba they can get to take him out - and they don't want to send Savior against his ZvZ. No way. I think they have to. Whoever goes 4th not only has to beat Jaedong, but must also be strong enough to all-kill against the rest of OZ. And if both SkyHigh and Iris are down from sets 2 and 3, Savior's the only one who can pull that. Obviously, OZ can't be relying entirely on a Jaedong all-kill, so they'll have their own snipers prepared for whomever eventually beats Jaedong. The top 2 contenders for doing that are SkyHigh and Iris. Hiya's TvT might get the job done, but I wouldn't bet on it, and I'm guessing OZ's coach would agree. Someone else on their team has to be training to do the honors. The reason Iris must go in set 3 is actually set 4's map: RH3. If Jaedong gets sniped by Iris in the third set, OZ has noone who can take him on RH3. That gives CJ a win against whomever OZ decides to put up. That leaves things 2-2. If Much does the sniping instead, you've got a Protoss going into RH3, and that's never good. Hiya can execute him there, putting OZ up 3-1, and forcing Iris or Savior to go 3-0 against the rest of OZ. Iris can take Hiya, but again, they will have at least one player dedicated to sniping Iris. Iris has the game to go 3-0, and OZ's team is really shallow, but that's not the position that CJ wants to be in. The CJ coach can't play things assuming that Jaedong will continue to win. Each player must be played assuming they beat Jaedong, and thus are prepared for the next match against whomever OZ puts up. Putting a Terran in set 3 against Jaedong means that, if they beat him, they're almost guaranteed to go up 2-2 thanks to RH3 and Hiya's poor TvT. And if Jaedong wins set 3? Well, CJ's screwed. | ||
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