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On December 14 2008 19:59 Malinor wrote:
Not that I want to take anything away from Bisus absolutely amazing PvZ skills. But seriously, after forcing bisu to build 4 cannons early, taking out like 4 corsairs 2 shuttles and 1 reaver without taking to many losses and having more or less 3 1/2 bases running... how hard is it to research lurkeraspect and to put 1 sunken at your expo.
It is noth about just this game, the skill difference between these two guys was fairly obvious. But it is so many zergs lately which fall to timing attacks, because their 24 hydras cannot take on 15speedlots +archon or whatever. 15 Hydras and 4 lurks and 1 sunken would do a much better job and keep you in the game until your expansions kicks in.
Yeah, I see way too many zergs caught having to use hydras vs. zealots lately. I was so glad Juni teched to lurkers tonight after getting some breathing room.
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United States17042 Posts
On December 14 2008 19:59 Malinor wrote:
Not that I want to take anything away from Bisus absolutely amazing PvZ skills. But seriously, after forcing bisu to build 4 cannons early, taking out like 4 corsairs 2 shuttles and 1 reaver without taking to many losses and having more or less 3 1/2 bases running... how hard is it to research lurkeraspect and to put 1 sunken at your expo.
It is noth about just this game, the skill difference between these two guys was fairly obvious. But it is so many zergs lately which fall to timing attacks, because their 24 hydras cannot take on 15speedlots +archon or whatever. 15 Hydras and 4 lurks and 1 sunken would do a much better job and keep you in the game until your expansions kicks in.
if you want to see a good example of how to fend off the +1 speedzeal timing attack, watch the juni/tempest game that was played earlier today.
+ Show Spoiler +Juni started powering hydra at exactly the right time, saved his hatch, and then ended up rolling over tempest
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Well Mind and Flash is still in this, they are both TvP specialists. Flash got the insane macro and Mind the best timing sense in TvP.
No protoss for another starleague this season!
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On December 14 2008 19:59 freelander wrote:Show nested quote +On December 14 2008 19:57 GHOSTCLAW wrote:On December 14 2008 19:55 Yaqoob wrote:
Bisu versus Flash is going to be pretty amazing. This will be very hard for Bisu. Bisu dismantled FBH, hwasin, and iris in his last msl run. but flash has more tvp skill than those guys together have
Not together , TvP hwasin and FBH are pathetic , i think Iris's style is still very dangerous .
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On December 14 2008 20:03 GGQ wrote:
I think Flash is the natural favourite, but I still think Bisu will win it 2-1. Might depend on their schedules around that time.
If they're the same shitty maps, Bisu will 2-0.
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On December 14 2008 20:01 Proposal wrote:
its true though, P>Z and P>T (always has been)
Only someone who knows nothing abotu progaming or starcraft in general would say a complety stupid and dumb statement? Before Bisu most Protoss were getting raped by Zergs. JulyZerg/Savior/Chojja with their high ZvP stats like 70% and above?
If you don't know what you are talking about, then why talk?
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On December 14 2008 20:03 Puosu wrote:Show nested quote +On December 14 2008 20:01 Shikyo wrote:On December 14 2008 20:00 Puosu wrote:On December 14 2008 20:00 Shikyo wrote:On December 14 2008 19:59 Puosu wrote:On December 14 2008 19:57 Shikyo wrote:On December 14 2008 19:55 ColdLava wrote:On December 14 2008 19:53 Shikyo wrote:
Protoss is so imbalanced. They should patch this game. Funny because protosses were saying PvZ seemed impossible 3 years ago  Yeah, Z>P, T>Z, P>T. Now it's P>Z, P>T, T>Z, making it imbalanced. Its the maps and natural evolution of the game, different races realize new things all the time and then they dominate for a while, until someone comes up with something new and exciting. It will take a while until Zerg learns to utilize Queens. It took a while until Zergs started utilizing defilers like they do today. Luckily they actually had useful abilities with infinite mana =P yeah ok ok but still I believe Zergs will come up with something, maybe something very simple but revolutionary similar to Oov's engineering bay timing.
but zerg doesn't really have any stuff like that.. I think better maps are needed
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bisu's going to win on requiem unless flash makes a nasty cheese. tough to see him losing on medusa, too
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On December 14 2008 20:04 Yaqoob wrote:Show nested quote +On December 14 2008 20:01 Proposal wrote:
its true though, P>Z and P>T (always has been) Only someone who knows nothing abotu progaming or starcraft in general would say a complety stupid and dumb statement? Before Bisu most Protoss were getting raped by Zergs. JulyZerg/Savior/Chojja with their high ZvP stats like 70% and above? If you don't know what you are talking about, then why talk?
Agree, that statement is completely ignorant.
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9071 Posts
Bisu vs Flash. O boy, this is gonna be the payback
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Best thing about this is that Flash and Mind is not on the same side of the brackets, I would much rather see a TvT final then one more PvP final.
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yea i think some new school players started after bisu 3-0 savior and took P>Z for granted
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I feel like zergs lately allow themselves to be pushed around too much. Most PvZ strats are proactive to what Z can/will do and what they are weakest to. But i dont get why Z doesnt realize this and change. Building a few scourge isnt enough. I feel like Z doesnt watch what P is doing enough. Unit counter ratios are almost always way under estimated (like 6-8 corsairs vs 5 scourge and 3 mutas) and even then theyll just throw the mutas and scourge away.
Im not some kind of master player or anything, i dont even play zerg. It just seems like zerg falls into every trap Protoss sets. Zergs dont even try to think ahead it seems. I sometimes wonder why zerg doesnt do more to get ptotoss to use up resources on things other than to replace dead units. I feel that the "Bisu build" is a bit of a resources tightrope walk for P. And yet Z doesnt really do anything to exploit that or slow that. They just run out to meet it with fingers crossed and die.
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On December 14 2008 20:04 Yaqoob wrote:Show nested quote +On December 14 2008 20:01 Proposal wrote:
its true though, P>Z and P>T (always has been) Only someone who knows nothing abotu progaming or starcraft in general would say a complety stupid and dumb statement? Before Bisu most Protoss were getting raped by Zergs. JulyZerg/Savior/Chojja with their high ZvP stats like 70% and above? If you don't know what you are talking about, then why talk?
why are you flaming..
can't you see that last msl was protoss fest, this gsl is a protoss fest? can't you see that RO16 has 12 protoss players and 4 terrans?
zerg is majorly fucked because zvt always has been a disadvantageous matchup and now zvp is getting into the same category.r
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United States17042 Posts
On December 14 2008 20:04 raga4ka wrote:Show nested quote +On December 14 2008 19:59 freelander wrote:On December 14 2008 19:57 GHOSTCLAW wrote:On December 14 2008 19:55 Yaqoob wrote:
Bisu versus Flash is going to be pretty amazing. This will be very hard for Bisu. Bisu dismantled FBH, hwasin, and iris in his last msl run. but flash has more tvp skill than those guys together have Not together , TvP hwasin and FBH are pathetic , i think Iris's style is still very dangerous .
Flash TvP last ten games: 8-2
FBH TvP last 10 games: 6-4
hwasin TvP last 10 games: 3-7
Iris TvP last 10 games: 5-5
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On December 14 2008 20:04 Shikyo wrote:Show nested quote +On December 14 2008 20:03 GGQ wrote:
I think Flash is the natural favourite, but I still think Bisu will win it 2-1. Might depend on their schedules around that time. If they're the same shitty maps, Bisu will 2-0.
With Requem and medusa Bisu maybe could win it . Flash will roll over him if they put 2 of the 3 - Chupung , Destination or Harmony in it . That being said I expect Flash to own Bisu again .
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On December 14 2008 20:04 Yaqoob wrote:Show nested quote +On December 14 2008 20:01 Proposal wrote:
its true though, P>Z and P>T (always has been) Only someone who knows nothing abotu progaming or starcraft in general would say a complety stupid and dumb statement? Before Bisu most Protoss were getting raped by Zergs. JulyZerg/Savior/Chojja with their high ZvP stats like 70% and above? If you don't know what you are talking about, then why talk?
Does Zerg have a magical unit like Corsair, or something like the Forge Expand to switch the balance? What does the past matter, it's now what matters, and the future.
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Flash and Mind to save the tournament
Everybody who's not a diehard Protoss fan (or diehard fan of a specific P remaining in the tournament) should really really be rooting for the two remaining Terrans to go as far as possible, especially seeing as how they have the two best TvPs in the game.
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On December 14 2008 20:03 Puosu wrote:Show nested quote +On December 14 2008 20:01 Shikyo wrote:On December 14 2008 20:00 Puosu wrote:On December 14 2008 20:00 Shikyo wrote:On December 14 2008 19:59 Puosu wrote:On December 14 2008 19:57 Shikyo wrote:On December 14 2008 19:55 ColdLava wrote:On December 14 2008 19:53 Shikyo wrote:
Protoss is so imbalanced. They should patch this game. Funny because protosses were saying PvZ seemed impossible 3 years ago Yeah, Z>P, T>Z, P>T. Now it's P>Z, P>T, T>Z, making it imbalanced. Its the maps and natural evolution of the game, different races realize new things all the time and then they dominate for a while, until someone comes up with something new and exciting. It will take a while until Zerg learns to utilize Queens. It took a while until Zergs started utilizing defilers like they do today. Luckily they actually had useful abilities with infinite mana =P yeah ok ok but still I believe Zergs will come up with something, maybe something very simple but revolutionary similar to Oov's engineering bay timing.
Can you/anyone elaborate on this?
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On December 14 2008 20:09 darktreb wrote: Flash and Mind to save the tournament Everybody who's not a diehard Protoss fan (or diehard fan of a specific P remaining in the tournament) should Really Really be rooting for the two remaining Terrans to go as far as possible, especially seeing as how they have the two best TvPs in the game.
whooooa.. sKyHigh and pepe are here too, don't forget them!
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EPT
