EPT
[ASL16] Ro24 Group B
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BLinD-RawR
ALLEYCAT BLUES51291 Posts
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Sonic_md
Moldova278 Posts
That's why I support these players: Jaedong, Best, Bisu, SoulKey, Action. I think these legendary players deserve to play at least in the final. It's even surprising that none of them played in the final in 15 ASL seasons. Therefore, I am for this 5. SoulKey gogo! | ||
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RJBTV
194 Posts
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HOLYBATS
Turkey820 Posts
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Malongo
Chile3472 Posts
Go Sea! | ||
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BLinD-RawR
ALLEYCAT BLUES51291 Posts
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oEkY
Germany649 Posts
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M3t4PhYzX
Poland4276 Posts
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Peeano
Netherlands5822 Posts
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Sonic_md
Moldova278 Posts
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Peeano
Netherlands5822 Posts
Can you even get 2 larvas from your 12h without pulling drones? If you know you're the better player you should go 12pool, right? Any main Zergs here that can answer? | ||
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PVJ
Hungary5221 Posts
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Peeano
Netherlands5822 Posts
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PVJ
Hungary5221 Posts
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PVJ
Hungary5221 Posts
On August 15 2023 19:38 Peeano wrote: Didn't Light 4-0 Rain to get his gold? lol Yeah, in the last 10 matches rain is 4<>6 vT but 0<>4 of that is the finals. I think the other 2 is from Flash. | ||
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Peeano
Netherlands5822 Posts
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Sonic_md
Moldova278 Posts
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Peeano
Netherlands5822 Posts
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Sonic_md
Moldova278 Posts
Poll: Recommend Rain vs Sea? No (8) Yes (3) If you have time (1) 12 total votes You must be logged in to vote in this poll. ☐ Yes | ||
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M3t4PhYzX
Poland4276 Posts
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PVJ
Hungary5221 Posts
GG? | ||
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M3t4PhYzX
Poland4276 Posts
On August 15 2023 19:43 Peeano wrote: Wtf is Sea doing? After those 2 donated goons he had a decent fighting chance again tbh. some very weird plays, yeah.. | ||
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SpaNiarD
Spain352 Posts
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Kaolla
China2999 Posts
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Peeano
Netherlands5822 Posts
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HOLYBATS
Turkey820 Posts
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Kaolla
China2999 Posts
On August 15 2023 19:43 Peeano wrote: Wtf is Sea doing? After those 2 donated goons he had a decent fighting chance again tbh. He didn't really though. Those 2 goons help a bit, but cancelling his CC was pretty bad. Not just losing 100 minerals, but also starting mining a whole lot later. I understand that he tried to still do an attack after that, I mean, I feel he was all or nothing, but it was so badly executed and he basically lost his whole army vs 1 goon and some dmg on another one. I mean, no idea how he even qualified playing like this. But yea, I guess it might have just been a terrible game from his side. Let's see if he can at least get a better 2nd game going later vs SK. Edit: and that is aside from also losing some marines. You might say that doesn't matter too much, but in a game like that where you have to do dmg early on to balance the situation, it does for sure. | ||
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Peeano
Netherlands5822 Posts
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oEkY
Germany649 Posts
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Sonic_md
Moldova278 Posts
Poll: Recommend Winner's Game? Yes (14) No (4) If you have time (2) 20 total votes You must be logged in to vote in this poll. ☐ Yes | ||
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Sonic_md
Moldova278 Posts
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Peeano
Netherlands5822 Posts
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M3t4PhYzX
Poland4276 Posts
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M3t4PhYzX
Poland4276 Posts
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Sonic_md
Moldova278 Posts
On August 15 2023 20:09 M3t4PhYzX wrote: awful games today wtf.. and faster than ZvsZ )) | ||
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Kaolla
China2999 Posts
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M3t4PhYzX
Poland4276 Posts
full bo1 groups suck so much it's unreal.. | ||
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M3t4PhYzX
Poland4276 Posts
On August 15 2023 20:19 Kaolla wrote: Fuck had to tune out for a bit due to phone call, what happened after Calm's 3 hatch before pool opening? Judging from the comments he won easily? That sucks to have either SK or Rain go out >.< shshshshshshshshshshshsh into "gg" Starleague bo1 ZvP classic | ||
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M2
Bulgaria4168 Posts
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Sonic_md
Moldova278 Posts
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Sonic_md
Moldova278 Posts
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M3t4PhYzX
Poland4276 Posts
probably the worst day of ASL games ever.. i'm genuinely stunned | ||
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Kaolla
China2999 Posts
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Zergxhx
China214 Posts
![[image loading]](https://i.imgur.com/WIU7fgY.jpg)  | ||
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M3t4PhYzX
Poland4276 Posts
On August 15 2023 20:26 Kaolla wrote: This is cheese mania. I mean it kinda sucks to have such short games, but at the same times it's pretty nice imo. It is just part of the game. I blame the format full bo1 is utter garbage | ||
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Peeano
Netherlands5822 Posts
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Sonic_md
Moldova278 Posts
On August 15 2023 20:26 Kaolla wrote: This is cheese mania. I mean it kinda sucks to have such short games, but at the same times it's pretty nice imo. It is just part of the game. yeah, agree, just a part of our GREAT game | ||
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M3t4PhYzX
Poland4276 Posts
On August 15 2023 20:27 Peeano wrote: Worst ASL day ever? 1 good PvZ isn't gonna fix this. Honestly? Yes, imo. | ||
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Peeano
Netherlands5822 Posts
This is how I try to feel for watching today. I'm trying to laugh it off, but rly I wanna give these guys the finger for wasting my time. | ||
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Sonic_md
Moldova278 Posts
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Sonic_md
Moldova278 Posts
We have already seen SCV`s rush. We are waiting for 4 pool rush for complete happiness. | ||
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TMNT
3296 Posts
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Sonic_md
Moldova278 Posts
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Zergxhx
China214 Posts
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DeLoAdEr
Japan527 Posts
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Peeano
Netherlands5822 Posts
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M3t4PhYzX
Poland4276 Posts
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M3t4PhYzX
Poland4276 Posts
On August 15 2023 20:32 Peeano wrote: This is how I try to feel for watching today. I'm trying to laugh it off, but rly I wanna give these guys the finger for wasting my time. +1 to that | ||
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Kaolla
China2999 Posts
On August 15 2023 20:45 Peeano wrote: Glad the best player made it through. I'll just forget about today's games quickly. I think Rain actually is, but this sucks. I mean I am quite a bit of a SK fan as well, but hmmm... Losing Rain, a true Protoss owner is painful. Some protoss success would be great for the scene. I don't see any other protoss being able to deliver on that. Rain is the only one who has super solid macro and game understanding, but yea, today's games just were a mess... Let's hope Snow for once delivers, but yea, knowing Snow, we all know he'll be eliminated tmrw or if not tmrw, then next round. | ||
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prosatan
Romania9193 Posts
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M3t4PhYzX
Poland4276 Posts
On August 15 2023 20:50 prosatan wrote: Who qualified? I've missed this group + Show Spoiler + Calm + Soulkey consider yourself lucky for missing it, too. 5 trash games one after another | ||
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Kaolla
China2999 Posts
On August 15 2023 20:50 prosatan wrote: Who qualified? I've missed this group Calm and SK On August 15 2023 20:51 M3t4PhYzX wrote: + Show Spoiler + Calm + Soulkey consider yourself lucky for missing it, too. 5 trash games one after another No need to use spoiler tags in this thread, it's a live report thread, ppl should know results are discussed here. | ||
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M3t4PhYzX
Poland4276 Posts
On August 15 2023 20:54 Kaolla wrote: Calm and SK No need to use spoiler tags in this thread, it's a live report thread, ppl should know results are discussed here.  | ||
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prosatan
Romania9193 Posts
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GTR
51687 Posts
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RaGe
Belgium9950 Posts
On August 15 2023 20:21 M2 wrote: Yeah Calm qualified with 2 BO wins (given that he worked for the 2nd one) That second one was pure art though | ||
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WGT-Baal
France3524 Posts
yeah i m not even mad at it, it was well done by Calm. Sucks for P in general but off today s games, Rain wasnt amazing. Even vs Sea it was more Sea messing up. | ||
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RogerChillingworth
Chad3132 Posts
when i saw the length of the vod i was pretty sure it was gonna be a bayid day. And it was. it was oh so very bayid. sucks for rain. ok ok, so zvz and hydra rushes in zvp are the 2 things that suck about brood war. | ||
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RogerChillingworth
Chad3132 Posts
On August 15 2023 20:27 Zergxhx wrote: ![[image loading]](https://i.imgur.com/KfM9x6y.png)  | ||
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QOGQOG
834 Posts
Honestly, the only terrible games were from Sea. The others were: a generic ZvZ, an actually good ZvP, and a generic ZvP. | ||
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RJBTV
194 Posts
On August 16 2023 00:54 QOGQOG wrote: I feel like every ASL Ro24 there's an obligatory "worst ASL ever?" thread, so I'm glad we got this one out of the way fast. Honestly, the only terrible games were from Sea. The others were: a generic ZvZ, an actually good ZvP, and a generic ZvP. Sea got a tad unlucky with bad inputs vs Rain and a failed scv micro vs soulkey. If the SCV had succeeded in stopping or delaying the drone from turning into a creep he'd have had that game. | ||
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Kaolla
China2999 Posts
On August 15 2023 23:09 WGT-Baal wrote: yeah i m not even mad at it, it was well done by Calm. Sucks for P in general but off today s games, Rain wasnt amazing. Even vs Sea it was more Sea messing up. Wasn't amazing? What more could he have done? He absolutely demolish him with virtually nothing. It was just Sea messing up, Rain doing his part and even more than that losing just 1 goon again what? 2 tanks a few rines and a vulture and then targetting down the one vult that could have just still gave Sea some comeback potential (yea, not really)... I mean I will not say it was one of the greatest plays ever, but he covered whatever was a danger pretty damn well and he won that game with ease (as he should). Can't say much about him not doing his part there, that he wasted some goons early on? Come on he was so far ahead he knew he could do that and the later stop of the attack by Sea proved he was more than on top of things. | ||
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RJBTV
194 Posts
On August 16 2023 01:45 Kaolla wrote: Wasn't amazing? What more could he have done? He absolutely demolish him with virtually nothing. It was just Sea messing up, Rain doing his part and even more than that losing just 1 goon again what? 2 tanks a few rines and a vulture and then targetting down the one vult that could have just still gave Sea some comeback potential (yea, not really)... I mean I will not say it was one of the greatest plays ever, but he covered whatever was a danger pretty damn well and he won that game with ease (as he should). Can't say much about him not doing his part there, that he wasted some goons early on? Come on he was so far ahead he knew he could do that and the later stop of the attack by Sea proved he was more than on top of things. Rain knew his limits and limited tested a little bit with the knowledge he was ahead. You're right on the money. | ||
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TMNT
3296 Posts
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RogerChillingworth
Chad3132 Posts
time for a different build, idiots! Or wait, no, make observers buildable from a nexus. you sacrifice 1 probe to scout the den but the overall integrity of the game is improved by 300%. | ||
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TMNT
3296 Posts
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PhilGood2DaY
Germany7424 Posts
Even I as a max 2100 mmr Protoss know I can build a core before a cannon vs 3 hatch. Some1 can explain to me how a player of Rains caliber does not? On August 15 2023 20:37 TMNT wrote: The Calm vs Rain game is one of those ZvP games that you can say the P does nothing wrong but still loses. P doesn't even try to be greedy or take any risk. He just loses because the matchup is designed like that. And that's why P is the worst race. He built a cannon before core vs 3 hatch before pool.. how is this .. "not doing anything wrong" I expect to know a 3 hatch before pool to be identifiable by a 1800 mmr toss .. yet a 2800 mmr, decorated Pro can not? what a joke | ||
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Malongo
Chile3472 Posts
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iRkSupperman
Norway140 Posts
Probably one of the worst players in the tournament, but with huge brand/meme value/fan attention. Calm and Rain ofc also with big variety audiences and only semi-active in tryhard BW. And Bo1 for the upset value which Afreeca seems to value really highly. So meme games is what we get. | ||
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Destroyer
Czech Republic955 Posts
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Rainalcar
Croatia488 Posts
On August 16 2023 00:16 RogerChillingworth wrote: ok ok, so zvz and hydra rushes in zvp are the 2 things that suck about brood war. You nailed it. | ||
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Rainalcar
Croatia488 Posts
On August 16 2023 04:04 TMNT wrote: Just increase research time for Hydra range by 30 sec would do it. Or do something about the cannons... faster warping, more sturdiness while warping... something. | ||
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PVJ
Hungary5221 Posts
Today Rain couldn't get a probe up on the ramp and Sea was maybe making 2 wrong clicks out of 24 which let a colony live on with 6 hp. How is that not awesome to watch? They had no strategic value but it was tense RTS all the way! I'm more likely to skip ahead in a standard mid-game game. Of course that makes those games that nail you to the chair for 30~40 minutes and invade your dreams, the most revered. But that's 2% and many times we get the other 98% | ||
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TMNT
3296 Posts
On August 16 2023 04:10 MaGic~PhiL wrote: havent watched more than the Rain vs Calm game.. but.. a Toss of Rains level scouting a 3 hatch (!!!!!!) before pool and still building cannon before core gotta be a joke. Even I as a max 2100 mmr Protoss know I can build a core before a cannon vs 3 hatch. Some1 can explain to me how a player of Rains caliber does not? He built a cannon before core vs 3 hatch before pool.. how is this .. "not doing anything wrong" I expect to know a 3 hatch before pool to be identifiable by a 1800 mmr toss .. yet a 2800 mmr, decorated Pro can not? what a joke I think the actual joke here is a max 2100 foreign Protoss calling the play of a multiple SL champion a joke. He already identified it way earlier by cancelling his Forge for a Nexus first build. By the time he built that Cannon, he hadn't mined gas yet and then he went for +1 before Stargate/Citadel, which means rushing the Core out earlier would serve no purpose. Instead he wanted the first Zealots to leave base immediately which makes the cannon a necessity (it's a delayed cannon compared to normal cannon timing of a Nexus first build anyway). But yeah you think you're smarter by cutting corners like Mini, but you don't seem to know what you can achieve from building that core before cannon do you? I was thinking what if Rain got storm done already when the hydras came, but then Calm could just micro them a bit to dodge the storm and then it'd be the same ending. So as someone said, it's essentially a BO win from Calm, but he did have to work for it. It's more or less similar to a cross spawn Nexus first 2 base Carrier win in PvT, but much easier. Calm pretty much won the game the moment Rain decided to not open with a Gateway. I think normally he would do Gate expand, but he probably thought Calm would cheese him with a 9 Pool or something like he did with Soulkey, because everyone including Calm himself knows that Calm wouldn't win in a straight up macro game. You can say he won the mind game here but essentially it's a toss up really. | ||
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Lazyer
United States395 Posts
Rain got a little unlucky not scouting the 2nd Overlord heading towards his natural, but w/ the econ advantage it was tough to defend anyway, he had 4 completed cannons when it came. SK did a good job picking off solitary cannons while the others were warping in, just a straight forward bust. Hope these games aren't an omen for the quality we'll see in the next 4 groups. | ||
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RowdierBob
Australia13476 Posts
Rain was tad unlucky vs Clam but he stuffed up a little vs Soulkey IMO. He was too slow cannoning up once he he saw the hydra bust coming. Debateable if he would've held anyway but if he got more cannons warping in faster he might've held. But a well executed hydra bust is a bitch for Protoss players. It's such a fine margin if you hold or die. | ||
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avanhokie
50 Posts
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reincremate
China2216 Posts
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Terrorbladder
2750 Posts
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Simplistik
2163 Posts
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iopq
United States1153 Posts
On August 16 2023 05:36 Rainalcar wrote: Or do something about the cannons... faster warping, more sturdiness while warping... something. If they warped in faster you wouldn't be able to stop a cannon rush with a hatch first How about play on maps that have ramps going up for the natural? Map making already nerfed 973 | ||
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Nirli
Bulgaria387 Posts
Props to Calm for actually planning out his games. Everybody else didn't do their homework. Sea clowning it in ofc. | ||
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PhilGood2DaY
Germany7424 Posts
On August 16 2023 07:53 TMNT wrote: I think the actual joke here is a max 2100 foreign Protoss calling the play of a multiple SL champion a joke. He already identified it way earlier by cancelling his Forge for a Nexus first build. By the time he built that Cannon, he hadn't mined gas yet and then he went for +1 before Stargate/Citadel, which means rushing the Core out earlier would serve no purpose. Instead he wanted the first Zealots to leave base immediately which makes the cannon a necessity (it's a delayed cannon compared to normal cannon timing of a Nexus first build anyway). But yeah you think you're smarter by cutting corners like Mini, but you don't seem to know what you can achieve from building that core before cannon do you? I was thinking what if Rain got storm done already when the hydras came, but then Calm could just micro them a bit to dodge the storm and then it'd be the same ending. So as someone said, it's essentially a BO win from Calm, but he did have to work for it. It's more or less similar to a cross spawn Nexus first 2 base Carrier win in PvT, but much easier. Calm pretty much won the game the moment Rain decided to not open with a Gateway. I think normally he would do Gate expand, but he probably thought Calm would cheese him with a 9 Pool or something like he did with Soulkey, because everyone including Calm himself knows that Calm wouldn't win in a straight up macro game. You can say he won the mind game here but essentially it's a toss up really. Rain definitely had too few cannons, he lacked scouting and thus intel.. OBVIOUSLY I am not on the level of Rain at all. The fact you think that this is part of my point is a bit weird. If you really think Rain made no mistakes that game and lost because PvZ is inherently imbalanced then all that is left is to agree to disagree. I do not think ZvP is inherently imbalanced and I do not think Rain played that game flawless. In fact I think he played poorly and thus lost. Rain failed to scout properly. Lost the scouting probe. Sent a 2nd probe at a time that was too late to react to new intel. The thing I can sympathize with .. is that Rain probably put the odds of Calm going 3 hatch before pool at sth like 1:100.. Other than that.. I dont mind to disagree. Fine with me  | ||
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Artas1984
150 Posts
On August 15 2023 19:53 Kaolla wrote: I mean, no idea how he even qualified playing like this. He was lucky - he went through Pusan and Hoorang to get into ASL16... Pusan is just old rust and Hoorang i would put on Sea's level.. For me this was the most exciting group - two SC & SC2 gods in Rain and Soulkey versus two underdogs in Calm & Sea who were finally returning to ASL after a long break. Funny how one of them came up with perfect build plans (Calm) and the other prepared ''whatever happens'' builds (Sea). What was particularly interesting about this group was that both Calm and Sea are know as some of the most outspoken ''commentators'' in the Starcraft community, who like to be on the spotlight and bitch on everything. It's sad that we did not get to see them fight each other. I can not wait to see a reaction video from other pros (mostly Flash's) about this B group, i hope there will be one. On August 16 2023 00:54 QOGQOG wrote: Honestly, the only terrible games were from Sea. If one has a bad game, the other has a good game and it is entertaining! Sea's matches had me laughing and that is what counts. I don't care how bad his games actually were. If people like M3t4PhYzX can not watch ''bad games'' and only bitch about them, making multiple complaining posts, then i suggest don't watch Starcraft at all. Try to find entertainment value even in bad games, for without them Starcraft would be way more boring. | ||
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RogerChillingworth
Chad3132 Posts
On August 16 2023 20:07 MaGic~PhiL wrote: Rain definitely had too few cannons, he lacked scouting and thus intel.. OBVIOUSLY I am not on the level of Rain at all. The fact you think that this is part of my point is a bit weird. If you really think Rain made no mistakes that game and lost because PvZ is inherently imbalanced then all that is left is to agree to disagree. I do not think ZvP is inherently imbalanced and I do not think Rain played that game flawless. In fact I think he played poorly and thus lost. Rain failed to scout properly. Lost the scouting probe. Sent a 2nd probe at a time that was too late to react to new intel. The thing I can sympathize with .. is that Rain probably put the odds of Calm going 3 hatch before pool at sth like 1:100.. Other than that.. I dont mind to disagree. Fine with me i like this guy to be honest 3 hatch hydra, for me, isn't necessarily a thing of balance. it's just kinda cringe to watch it go down again and again. it feels like zerg has total control of what happens for several minutes. and like seeing the forge get killed with +1 every single time is a bit of a groundhog day moment. would just like it to be a less frequently occuring build with perhaps something else that's a little less face-roll to replace it. now that said, i feel like protoss gains the advantage later on, and also power spikes immediately with leg speed in most cases, so it's definitely an ebb-and flow kinda deal. but still. hydra busts just come along too often and i'm sure it's pretty infuriating for the toss to be more anxious than a squirrel every game. gz on being 2100. that's definitely a big accomplishment in my eyes, sir! | ||
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outscar
2832 Posts
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TMNT
3296 Posts
On August 17 2023 22:39 outscar wrote: Wow Sea played like true degen! I didn't care if he gets out of this group or not but qualifying for ASL after such long hiatus and giving absolutely dogshit games, for a player of his caliber and legacy it must be shameful. Sea you better go back streaming! To be fair to him, he's much better than that, as shown in his proleague and spon games in recent months. In fact Calm is no stronger than Sea, but it just worked out for him (matchup, luck, opponent). But yeah, he just had a fest with girls right after the game, and then came back to his studio watching the reactions of other players to his games and laughed. So did Rain. None of them really cares. | ||
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Galacsia
Chile163 Posts
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Simplistik
2163 Posts
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outscar
2832 Posts
On August 17 2023 23:13 TMNT wrote: None of them really cares. That's quite sad. It's an event that occurs twice a year so why not give your 100%? I'm sure Sea gets twice or triple amount of prize money in balloons in month and Rain must be chilling on LoL - the state of korean BW right now. | ||
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RogerChillingworth
Chad3132 Posts
On August 17 2023 23:45 Galacsia wrote: I disagree with y'all, Calm earned his win against Rain. He prepared, made a plan and executed it correctly. I agree with you. Calm played great. He looked like a monster in those games. The probe kill, the block, the micro, the killer instinct. He came prepared, shouted This Is Sparta, and that was that. | ||
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moktira
Ireland1548 Posts
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TMNT
3296 Posts
On August 16 2023 20:07 MaGic~PhiL wrote: Rain definitely had too few cannons, he lacked scouting and thus intel.. OBVIOUSLY I am not on the level of Rain at all. The fact you think that this is part of my point is a bit weird. If you really think Rain made no mistakes that game and lost because PvZ is inherently imbalanced then all that is left is to agree to disagree. I do not think ZvP is inherently imbalanced and I do not think Rain played that game flawless. In fact I think he played poorly and thus lost. Rain failed to scout properly. Lost the scouting probe. Sent a 2nd probe at a time that was too late to react to new intel. The thing I can sympathize with .. is that Rain probably put the odds of Calm going 3 hatch before pool at sth like 1:100.. Other than that.. I dont mind to disagree. Fine with me I advise you to rewatch the game and pause when needed because what you're saying here is wrong and your understanding of this game is lacking. - Rain cancelled his Forge to go for a Nexus first build. What more of a reaction could he do? Can't be more greedy than that. - He built the Cannon before the Core because that map has 2 paths leading to the natural. It's not your normal map with standard 2 gap wall in, so surprised Rain knows better than a 2100 Protoss huh? Also his Cannon finished at the same time his 1st Zealot popped (and went straight to Zerg's base), so without the Cannon he risked dying to Lings (and even with it he could die as well but he took a risk there sending the zealot immediately for intel) - The 1st zealot distracted the lings so the 2nd scouting probe sneaked in and saw the Hydra Den right when it finished. He also saw the 4th Hatch as well. In short he scouted the Hydra Den before Stargate even finished. What more could you ask for? Eventually he died because 4 cannons were still too few for a 4H Hydra bust at the 7th minute. Maybe his mistake was building too few cannon lol but I'm sure if he built enough to survive the initial bust he'd die another way later. Just watch the offrace game today between Snow (Z) vs Soma (P) on that exact map with both players going for the exact openings as Calm vs Rain. Granted the builds were a bit different after the opening but you can see how absurdly powerful 3H before Pool can be. | ||
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Sabu113
United States11103 Posts
Man I hate hydra busts. They just feel like the least sophisticated play that gets consistent results To be fair, pvz is such a bizarre matchup that only Mini ever looks particularly dominant. Every other Protoss could lose any match. They talked about soulkey zvz but pvz murders good toss. Map issues? | ||
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