EPTThanks Afreecatv,Scan,Nyoken. It was so entertaining.
[ASL12] Grand Finals - Page 9
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Recommended Games + Show Spoiler + + Show Spoiler [Set 1] + Good timing from the winner + Show Spoiler [Set 2] + Yes, some close calls and throws but fun nonetheless + Show Spoiler [Set 3] + yes, you'll know when you see it. + Show Spoiler [Set 4] + useful skill toi have + Show Spoiler [Set 5] + when scouting goes good, it shows + Show Spoiler [Set 6] + Slow moving car crash + Show Spoiler [Set 7] + Useful skill toi have[2] | ||
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HOLYBATS
Turkey781 Posts
Thanks Afreecatv,Scan,Nyoken. It was so entertaining. | ||
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Powerpill
United States1693 Posts
Congrats mini, those scouts were boss. ^_^ | ||
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A.Alm
Sweden536 Posts
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oxKnu
1258 Posts
On November 08 2021 18:15 A.Alm wrote: One of the best ASL finals for sure, but the state of PvT feels very coin flippy right now. Many proxy/aggro gates and nexus firsts, and the outcome really relies on spawn positioning and scouting your player first or not. Just a year ago 90% of openers were goon expands after range. I think that's fine since most 'standard' builds always lean favorable to a Terran win in the long-term. That's why we had such a Terran resurgence a couple of years ago with Last/Light/Sharp having great success then. Also the current maps are good for weirder strats since they're not that easy to bust/contain. | ||
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A.Alm
Sweden536 Posts
On November 08 2021 19:25 oxKnu wrote: I think that's fine since most 'standard' builds always lean favorable to a Terran win in the long-term. That's why we had such a Terran resurgence a couple of years ago with Last/Light/Sharp having great success then. Also the current maps are good for weirder strats since they're not that easy to bust/contain. regardless, randomness is not a good thing in an esport and i feel it's increasing with these extremely polarized openers. | ||
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jackel
12 Posts
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QOGQOG
834 Posts
On November 08 2021 18:15 A.Alm wrote: One of the best ASL finals for sure, but the state of PvT feels very coin flippy right now. Many proxy/aggro gates and nexus firsts, and the outcome really relies on spawn positioning and scouting your player first or not. Just a year ago 90% of openers were goon expands after range. I think that has less to do with the state of PvT and more to do with Mini. If Snow or Best had played the finals, the series would have been totally different. | ||
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Magic Powers
Austria4478 Posts
On November 08 2021 20:31 A.Alm wrote: regardless, randomness is not a good thing in an esport and i feel it's increasing with these extremely polarized openers. It's not randomness, it's called mixing it up. If you're predictable, you're exploitable. Creating uncertainty through a variety of builds/plays is a a fundamental aspect of strategy. Randomness is when things aren't in control of the player. 12 nex is perfectly in the hands of the player. | ||
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confusedzerg
Russian Federation102 Posts
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A.Alm
Sweden536 Posts
On November 09 2021 03:48 Magic Powers wrote: It's not randomness, it's called mixing it up. If you're predictable, you're exploitable. Creating uncertainty through a variety of builds/plays is a a fundamental aspect of strategy. Randomness is when things aren't in control of the player. 12 nex is perfectly in the hands of the player. i'm talking about spawn positioning and weather you scouting first or not, which is random. | ||
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ggsimida
1156 Posts
On November 09 2021 08:55 A.Alm wrote: i'm talking about spawn positioning and weather you scouting first or not, which is random. well rush can also choose to do 14cc instead... its more like theres no terran equivalent to proxy gate to screw up 12 nex, theres only BBS which is too allinsh. if terran try to 14cc he opens himself to a good chance of instaloss from probable proxy gate while toss gets away with 12 nex while scouted late and even if terran pulls workers and rush successfully toss is not far behind and can claw back. all in all 12nex in pvt seems like a pretty low risk high reward strat in a PvT BoX for large maps | ||
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RowdierBob
Australia13414 Posts
Mini’s builds forced the issue and he was good enough to counter the timings terrans try to exploit when the carrier count is low. | ||
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Sirris
681 Posts
On November 09 2021 15:07 RowdierBob wrote: I thought Mini’s focus on carriers was smart. It puts the pressure on Terran to make something happen as if a Protoss gets to double digit carriers in a healthy enough economic position, it becomes so hard for terrans, even with mass goliaths. Mini’s builds forced the issue and he was good enough to counter the timings terrans try to exploit when the carrier count is low. Exactly. What mini is the absolute best at of any protoss is exploiting the weaknesses of his opponent. He knows Rush likes to macro from 3 bases+ and take his time. Part of it was the maps but the other part is forcing Rush to play out of his comfort zone and be aggressive. Even though carriers are an unpopular strategy to watch, on top of the carriers in most of the games mini used his ground units almost perfectly. | ||
BisuDagger
Bisutopia19343 Posts
On November 09 2021 15:20 Sirris wrote: Exactly. What mini is the absolute best at of any protoss is exploiting the weaknesses of his opponent. He knows Rush likes to macro from 3 bases+ and take his time. Part of it was the maps but the other part is forcing Rush to play out of his comfort zone and be aggressive. Even though carriers are an unpopular strategy to watch, on top of the carriers in most of the games mini used his ground units almost perfectly. Skipping goon range was huge too. That faster robo was a huge payoff. Listen to Nyoken and Scan break it down in their cast. Such a small tech change made a massive difference in how he survives the early and mid game. | ||
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RKC
2848 Posts
I'm no fan of carrier play as well, but there's a certain elegance of how well mini improvises funky less-than-optimal builds (late goon range was like his no scout vs Zerg last season). Mid-game pressure was the perfect counter to Rush's macro style. Gave me the same chills as Jangbi v Fantasy. Would be nice to have some arbiter and tenplar play. But the scoutu made up for it!  Rush will win a Starleague at the rate he's incrementally improving, season by season. Can't wait for next season! Finally Toss and Terran are breaking the Zerg dominance. | ||
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Soulforged
Latvia945 Posts
Not a carrier guy myself, but certainly not complaining. | ||
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Puosu
7015 Posts
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Lazyer
United States371 Posts
Loved the commentary from Scan and Nyoken, seeing how Mini was able to take engagements before key upgrades were kicking in was an astute observation. Rush taking it to game 7 hopefully means we'll have a real ASLCHAMPRUSH soon enough! | ||
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HOLYBATS
Turkey781 Posts
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M3t4PhYzX
Poland4258 Posts
On November 10 2021 12:04 Lazyer wrote: Crazy crazy mind games, Mini sure does know how to put on a show (maybe not as much as Larva)! I don't think I've ever seen (plural) Scouts in Starleague before, SUCH A BALLER MOVE. Loved the commentary from Scan and Nyoken, seeing how Mini was able to take engagements before key upgrades were kicking in was an astute observation. Rush taking it to game 7 hopefully means we'll have a real ASLCHAMPRUSH soon enough! first ever scout usage in any starleague finals in history it only took 22 years, but we finally witnessed it.. and they actually contributed a lot, too. Amazing finals, indeed. | ||
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