EPT[ASL8] Ro8 Day4 Rain vs Sacsri - Page 5
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Geographer
United States185 Posts
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fearthequeen
United States787 Posts
On August 14 2019 06:08 Geographer wrote: What a pathetic showing by the zerg. Zergs used to stomp Protosses with hydra busts as regularly as the sun rising in the east, now they can't pull it off at all. What changed? Nothing changed in a general sense of the matchup. Rain v Sacsri was arguably the best P right now vs an up and coming Z who had a bad day. Games 2 and 3 were quite winnable positions for Sacsri. He had good ideas all 3 games, but again the execution was lacking compared to Rain's near flawless execution. | ||
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StarscreamG1
Portugal1653 Posts
EDIT: Forget it, just found the list on Afreeca and Youtube http://bj.afreecatv.com/aslenglish/vods AfreecaTV eSports | ||
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ggrrg
Bulgaria2716 Posts
On August 13 2019 23:58 Ideas wrote: I think Action has a pretty good shot at taking down Snow in the Ro4. I'd only put Snow at a 55% advantage. I don't think Action has the mechanics of an effort or SK to be a real tournament winner yet, but he's definitely a competent series player and very tricky. Rain played basically perfectly today? Sacscri definitely had some nerves issues :\. The Ro4 is going to be sick. I also feel that Action has a decent shot against Snow, but I surely hope that he loses. Despite Rain's online PvZ performance I expect Action to look only marginally better than Sacsri in the finals of the ASL. And if Flash reaches the finals, he will most likely simply speedrun through Action... On August 14 2019 01:50 VioleTAK wrote: ... I loved how Tasteless caught the fact that Rain only had his probes on the 2nd gas while the overlord was watching, well done! ... Tasteless casting bw PvX is absolutely incomparable to him casting any other bw matchup of any sc2 games. | ||
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ShowTheLights
Korea (South)1689 Posts
On August 13 2019 19:45 nojok wrote: Hurr durr zealots 1A2A3A Are you fucking dumb? Rain sent out a 2nd probe, something 99% of protoss's never do (including him, his starsense felt the desperateness from the Zerg). He easily could have gotten busted that game User was warned for this post. | ||
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konadora
Singapore66170 Posts
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BigBalls
United States5354 Posts
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Sabu113
United States11048 Posts
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TaardadAiel
Bulgaria750 Posts
On August 14 2019 10:33 ShowTheLights wrote: Are you fucking dumb? Rain sent out a 2nd probe, something 99% of protoss's never do (including him, his starsense felt the desperateness from the Zerg). He easily could have gotten busted that game I don't mean to pry when you have such a good time insulting someone online because HE'S WRONG ON THE INTERNET, but this could've been ironic. | ||
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JoinTheRain
Bulgaria408 Posts
But even as they are short and brutal - they were spectacular in their own way. Rain was just too good today. | ||
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Alpha-NP-
United States1242 Posts
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BlueStar
Bulgaria1167 Posts
On August 15 2019 00:10 Alpha-NP- wrote: Guys who do you think the stronger Protoss is between Snow and Rain? Like I know Rain is the best PvP player and always wins Snow. But PvZ and PvT, to me, it seems like Snow is the better player. I remember Snow outplaying Jaedong PvZ in a recent tour. And Snow also beat Flash to win an ASL albeit on P favored maps. What is others opinions? Thanks. very much depends on their current shape and mood. I'd say snows PvT is better than Rain and Rain's PvZ is stronger than Snow But, trust me - it's just personal opinion, everything can look way different depending from game to game. | ||
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Wonk
546 Posts
On August 15 2019 00:10 Alpha-NP- wrote: Guys who do you think the stronger Protoss is between Snow and Rain? Like I know Rain is the best PvP player and always wins Snow. But PvZ and PvT, to me, it seems like Snow is the better player. I remember Snow outplaying Jaedong PvZ in a recent tour. And Snow also beat Flash to win an ASL albeit on P favored maps. What is others opinions? Thanks. Really difficult to call. Rain get a lot of hype because of how good his PvP is, but his PvT and PvZ leave a bit to be desired (at the top level). Snow's PvT is immaculate, and he's been showing good form with PvZ through reaver usage, but still he's inconsistent. It's too hard to call who's the best "protoss" (at least til bisu gets back) really there's nothing that i can say that'll change your mind. | ||
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QOGQOG
834 Posts
On August 15 2019 00:10 Alpha-NP- wrote: Guys who do you think the stronger Protoss is between Snow and Rain? Like I know Rain is the best PvP player and always wins Snow. But PvZ and PvT, to me, it seems like Snow is the better player. I remember Snow outplaying Jaedong PvZ in a recent tour. And Snow also beat Flash to win an ASL albeit on P favored maps. What is others opinions? Thanks. I'm a big Snow fan, so a little biased, but I think Snow is stronger on the whole. While he doesn't have the titles, if it weren't for having to PvP Rain, he probably would have won ASL5 and KSL3--he eliminated the defending champions in both. PvP: Rain is way better than everyone else. Snow is arguably second best, but it's a wide gap. Advantage: Rain. PvZ: The last time Rain faced a high end zerg was him going 0-3 against Effort in ASL7. Snow recently won 3-1 against Soulkey in KSL3 (also beat him in ASL7). Effort is/was better and more consistent than Soulkey, but I don't know of any time where Rain actually defeated a great zerg. Probably the weakest matchup for both of them, though both have gotten better over time, especially Snow who used to always lose. Advantage: Snow. PvT: Snow is the only one to defeat Flash, but Rain hasn't ever faced him offline. They've both had some inconsistency: Snow has a habit of getting knocked out of qualifiers by low-tier terrans, while Rain has a more back-and-forth record vs, say, Last, while Snow consistently stomps. There's some rivalry between Rain and Sharp as well, whereas Snow won easily against Sharp the one time they played (KSL1). However, Snow is the stronger of the two because Snow has never lost a series to a terran in ASL or KSL. The only time I'm aware of that Snow was eliminated by a terran is when he got proxied by Last in a Bo1 in ASL7. Advantage: Snow. All that said, the Ro4 matchups will probably show us a lot: they're each essentially facing harder versions of the other's Ro8 matches. | ||
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Jaeyun
United States202 Posts
I used to say the same about Effort for a long time - I always considered him to be one of the most mechanically dominant players of all time (all races), but he kept flopping out of tournaments left and right until ASL6 came around and showed how good he could be at his best. I'm rooting for Snow to win this entire thing just for the storylines. With Snow at the top of his game, Rain still quite dominant, and Bisu back, it will be a great time for Starcraft. | ||
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fearthequeen
United States787 Posts
On August 14 2019 12:39 BigBalls wrote: Tried Rain's 11 nexus 11 forge build on ladder today, got 4 pooled and lost immediately Hah, that'll happen. Just a note on this build, because Tastosis was making this sound like a completely new thing. It's not Rain's build, it had been around for awhile. Some may remember it being used at the end of the Proleague era on Chain Reaction. It may have been used prior to that as well, just going from memory here. It's mostly meant for 2 player maps with rush distance long enough to where you can still defend vs overpool. But Protosses have mixed this build in on all maps for years. | ||
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EndingLife
United States1594 Posts
On August 15 2019 04:33 fearthequeen wrote: Hah, that'll happen. Just a note on this build, because Tastosis was making this sound like a completely new thing. It's not Rain's build, it had been around for awhile. Some may remember it being used at the end of the Proleague era on Chain Reaction. It may have been used prior to that as well, just going from memory here. It's mostly meant for 2 player maps with rush distance long enough to where you can still defend vs overpool. But Protosses have mixed this build in on all maps for years. I'd recommend trying nexus first when you're at top right, bottom left FS. 12 Nex, 12 forge, 12 cannon. 1 hex gap in wall | ||
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KobraKay
Portugal4231 Posts
On August 15 2019 01:39 Jaeyun wrote: Snow and Rain are both amazing players. At the highest of levels (and at any level, really), your mental game at offline events is going to be a large determinant in overall skill. Snow absolutely possesses the mechanical skill/talent to be the best Protoss but he needs to get his confidence rolling (and it's been, but needs a championship), and confidence comes from results, not your raw talent when you're laddering at home. I used to say the same about Effort for a long time - I always considered him to be one of the most mechanically dominant players of all time (all races), but he kept flopping out of tournaments left and right until ASL6 came around and showed how good he could be at his best. I'm rooting for Snow to win this entire thing just for the storylines. With Snow at the top of his game, Rain still quite dominant, and Bisu back, it will be a great time for Starcraft. I am not sure if I am going to give you some big news or something, but EffOrt won an OSL final against Flash on his Godhood days/form (i.e., long before there was anything like ASL or even a prospect of that, in a time before SC2). So he had his confidence (he carried CJ for such a long time) and he was an A class player (S class in some days) of that time. EffOrt was always one of my favourite players but denying Flash that day (OSL) made me scream and shout a lot of awful things at him :´) IIRC Flash was 2-0 up and got reverse murdered by EffOrt | ||
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fearthequeen
United States787 Posts
Yeah. One of the reasons a lot of zergs (including me) will argue FS is P favored in PvZ, these 1 gap walls. P can get a free lead in 1/7 if it's not 9p or less. IDK, maybe zergs should adjust with more 9p speeds if they spawn 11/5. How close is the cannon timing 12/12/12 vs overpool? | ||
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EndingLife
United States1594 Posts
On August 15 2019 06:09 fearthequeen wrote: @ EL Yeah. One of the reasons a lot of zergs (including me) will argue FS is P favored in PvZ, these 1 gap walls. P can get a free lead in 1/7 if it's not 9p or less. IDK, maybe zergs should adjust with more 9p speeds if they spawn 11/5. How close is the cannon timing 12/12/12 vs overpool? While FS might have a small edge for protoss in those 2 positions, I feel CB has a pretty big edge for zerg in all positions. It's much easier for zerg to obtain gas bases (4 base turtle) while toss struggles for 3rd gas. The 1 gap wall is pretty damn imba. I like it most when opening 9 gate expand. Having to kill the pylon later on to get dragoons out isn't even much of a setback either. IIRC protoss has to pull 1 probe to complete the wall vs cross positions and has to pull 2 probes vs non cross positions. If protoss isn't great at control maybe add another probe vs both positions. I honestly don't see many protoss players doing these walls as much as they used to. I'd say mix in 11 hatch, 12 hatch, 9 pool + extra drone and 9 pool speed every once in a while, especially if you're playing the same opponent multiple games. | ||
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