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[ASL8] Ro8 Day4 Rain vs Sacsri

Forum Index > Brood War Tournaments
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BLinD-RawR
Profile Blog Joined April 2010
ALLEYCAT BLUES50158 Posts
August 13 2019 07:15 GMT
#1

Afreeca Starleague Season 8


Tuesday, Aug 13 10:00am GMT (GMT+00:00)


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[image loading]      [image loading]
(P)Rain              (Z)Sacsri






Results


+ Show Spoiler [Full results] +




Recommended Games


+ Show Spoiler [Game 1] +

+ Show Spoiler [Game 2] +

+ Show Spoiler [Game 3] +

+ Show Spoiler [Game 4] +

+ Show Spoiler [Game 5] +




CSS: FO-nTTaX
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Brood War EICWoo Jung Ho, never forget.| Twitter: @BLinDRawR
TL+ Member
AzAlexZ
Profile Joined September 2016
Australia3303 Posts
Last Edited: 2019-08-13 10:47:06
August 13 2019 07:42 GMT
#2
Rain 3-1
His PvZ is not the best but he is still much more accomplished then Sacsri.
Faker is the GOAT!
oEkY
Profile Joined August 2016
Germany649 Posts
August 13 2019 07:44 GMT
#3
Sacsri 3-1
RowdierBob
Profile Blog Joined May 2003
Australia13018 Posts
August 13 2019 08:02 GMT
#4
I think Sacsri upsets Rain here.
"Terrans are pretty much space-Australians" - H
fearthequeen
Profile Joined November 2011
United States787 Posts
August 13 2019 08:29 GMT
#5
Rain 3-2. Very excited for some ZvP regardless of outcome.
NAKR`flying
O.P.
Profile Joined October 2007
Sweden109 Posts
August 13 2019 08:57 GMT
#6
Head: Rain
Heart: Sacsri
TornadoSteve
Profile Joined March 2018
1056 Posts
August 13 2019 09:23 GMT
#7
close to a flip™
nikolaus8844
Profile Joined March 2019
106 Posts
August 13 2019 09:25 GMT
#8
Considering Rain's PvZ and Sacsri's playstyle in theory this could be reasonably close, but methinks Sacsri will lose his cool under the pressure
That's all good though, cos they we'll have Flash vs Rain next week!
Wonk
Profile Joined March 2017
546 Posts
August 13 2019 09:40 GMT
#9
expecting a rain victory, cheering for a sacsri victory. Who knows?
veQ
Profile Joined November 2010
Poland339 Posts
August 13 2019 09:50 GMT
#10
Regarding Flash vs Light does anzbodz have link to KOR stream or any other? Was away from home when it was played and VOD's are nowhere to be seen. For this huh Rain is an easy pick but I dont want it to end in just 3-0
"Victory comes to those who look forward" Proud SPECTER EVO Owner - http://imgur.com/a/Me9LU
Jackal03
Profile Joined October 2009
Brazil7469 Posts
August 13 2019 09:53 GMT
#11
I know rain will win, but i'll cheer for sacsri
BW is back
LV_426
Profile Joined December 2009
Poland432 Posts
Last Edited: 2019-08-13 10:12:40
August 13 2019 10:11 GMT
#12
Sacsri can easily win against Rain, lately he's been improving a LOT...
for me its almost flip here, slightly better odds for Rain
3-2 imo for someone
Jackal03
Profile Joined October 2009
Brazil7469 Posts
August 13 2019 10:19 GMT
#13
zergling spots the attack
BW is back
razorsuKe
Profile Blog Joined July 2008
Canada2000 Posts
August 13 2019 10:20 GMT
#14
hhmmm you think rain chose this zeal aggression build cause sacsri decided to go for that offensive 3rd location?
EntusGalleries.com - CJ Uniform Sale
razorsuKe
Profile Blog Joined July 2008
Canada2000 Posts
August 13 2019 10:22 GMT
#15
OMG that storm was pure money
EntusGalleries.com - CJ Uniform Sale
Jackal03
Profile Joined October 2009
Brazil7469 Posts
August 13 2019 10:22 GMT
#16
perfect storms by rain
BW is back
nojok
Profile Joined May 2011
France15845 Posts
August 13 2019 10:23 GMT
#17
Zealots are strong.
"Back then teams that won were credited, now it's called throw. I think it's sad." - Kuroky - Flap Flap Wings!
BLinD-RawR
Profile Blog Joined April 2010
ALLEYCAT BLUES50158 Posts
August 13 2019 10:23 GMT
#18
Poll: Recommend Rain vs Sacsri Game 1?

Yes (16)
 
76%

No (3)
 
14%

If you have time (2)
 
10%

21 total votes

Your vote: Recommend Rain vs Sacsri Game 1?

(Vote): Yes
(Vote): No
(Vote): If you have time

Brood War EICWoo Jung Ho, never forget.| Twitter: @BLinDRawR
TL+ Member
Jackal03
Profile Joined October 2009
Brazil7469 Posts
August 13 2019 10:24 GMT
#19
sacrsi ggs, what a perfect display

sacrsi tryed to cut corners by not building sunkens, did not pay off
BW is back
veQ
Profile Joined November 2010
Poland339 Posts
August 13 2019 10:24 GMT
#20
The downtime between attacks almost got me, very impressive.
"Victory comes to those who look forward" Proud SPECTER EVO Owner - http://imgur.com/a/Me9LU
LV_426
Profile Joined December 2009
Poland432 Posts
August 13 2019 10:26 GMT
#21
no scouting from Sacrsi, terrible game from him :<
fearthequeen
Profile Joined November 2011
United States787 Posts
August 13 2019 10:26 GMT
#22
On August 13 2019 19:20 razorsuKe wrote:
hhmmm you think rain chose this zeal aggression build cause sacsri decided to go for that offensive 3rd location?


No. Pre meditated imo. Due to map. Any third you take as Zerg and you will be vulnerable to 4 gate zealot +1 opening.
NAKR`flying
Jackal03
Profile Joined October 2009
Brazil7469 Posts
August 13 2019 10:35 GMT
#23
rain spots the early den
BW is back
veQ
Profile Joined November 2010
Poland339 Posts
August 13 2019 10:42 GMT
#24
Where does he get all of these units out? All over the map thats some crazy play
"Victory comes to those who look forward" Proud SPECTER EVO Owner - http://imgur.com/a/Me9LU
Jackal03
Profile Joined October 2009
Brazil7469 Posts
August 13 2019 10:43 GMT
#25
wow, hero lurker, kills 22 probes!
BW is back
Jackal03
Profile Joined October 2009
Brazil7469 Posts
August 13 2019 10:43 GMT
#26
sacrsi just ggs, SO MANY ZEALOTS!
BW is back
BLinD-RawR
Profile Blog Joined April 2010
ALLEYCAT BLUES50158 Posts
August 13 2019 10:43 GMT
#27
Poll: Recommend Rain vs Sacsri Game 2?

Yes (16)
 
84%

No (2)
 
11%

If you have time (1)
 
5%

19 total votes

Your vote: Recommend Rain vs Sacsri Game 2?

(Vote): Yes
(Vote): No
(Vote): If you have time

Brood War EICWoo Jung Ho, never forget.| Twitter: @BLinDRawR
TL+ Member
Jackal03
Profile Joined October 2009
Brazil7469 Posts
August 13 2019 10:43 GMT
#28
who needs dragoons?
BW is back
veQ
Profile Joined November 2010
Poland339 Posts
August 13 2019 10:43 GMT
#29
Yeah some next level play right there
"Victory comes to those who look forward" Proud SPECTER EVO Owner - http://imgur.com/a/Me9LU
Breach_hu
Profile Joined August 2009
Hungary2431 Posts
August 13 2019 10:44 GMT
#30
Why not camp on 4 base?
Give thanks and praise!
Jackal03
Profile Joined October 2009
Brazil7469 Posts
August 13 2019 10:44 GMT
#31
this is such a stomp, almost ending in less then an hour
BW is back
nojok
Profile Joined May 2011
France15845 Posts
August 13 2019 10:45 GMT
#32
Hurr durr zealots 1A2A3A
"Back then teams that won were credited, now it's called throw. I think it's sad." - Kuroky - Flap Flap Wings!
LV_426
Profile Joined December 2009
Poland432 Posts
August 13 2019 10:45 GMT
#33
wtf is Sacrsi doing, he's timing are way off....
Dante08
Profile Blog Joined February 2008
Singapore4128 Posts
August 13 2019 10:46 GMT
#34
Looks like we can look forward to Rain vs Flash now
AzAlexZ
Profile Joined September 2016
Australia3303 Posts
Last Edited: 2019-08-13 10:48:00
August 13 2019 10:47 GMT
#35
On August 13 2019 16:42 AzAlexZ wrote:
Rain 3-1
His PvZ is not the best but he is still much more accomplished then Sacsri.

I know I predicted a 3-1, bu I change my mind, Rain will probably advance 3-0.
Faker is the GOAT!
fearthequeen
Profile Joined November 2011
United States787 Posts
August 13 2019 10:47 GMT
#36
Sacsri's having problems losing too many early drones both games. Rain's army positioning really did it for him game 2 as well.
NAKR`flying
razorsuKe
Profile Blog Joined July 2008
Canada2000 Posts
August 13 2019 10:49 GMT
#37
sac looking defeated :o
I see his sad eyes
EntusGalleries.com - CJ Uniform Sale
Jackal03
Profile Joined October 2009
Brazil7469 Posts
August 13 2019 10:51 GMT
#38
Happy that we will finally get a flash v rain
BW is back
veQ
Profile Joined November 2010
Poland339 Posts
August 13 2019 10:52 GMT
#39
This already looks bad
"Victory comes to those who look forward" Proud SPECTER EVO Owner - http://imgur.com/a/Me9LU
ggsimida
Profile Joined August 2015
1148 Posts
August 13 2019 10:54 GMT
#40
zeal attack gateway, ling lost track of zeal..sloppy galore
Jackal03
Profile Joined October 2009
Brazil7469 Posts
August 13 2019 10:55 GMT
#41
hydra all in for sacsri
BW is back
ggsimida
Profile Joined August 2015
1148 Posts
August 13 2019 10:57 GMT
#42
3-0 inc
Jackal03
Profile Joined October 2009
Brazil7469 Posts
August 13 2019 10:58 GMT
#43
sacsri failed so hard on the attack, his micro was terrible
BW is back
nojok
Profile Joined May 2011
France15845 Posts
August 13 2019 10:58 GMT
#44
Round of 8 facts :
series without protoss => great series
series with protoss => boring series




"Back then teams that won were credited, now it's called throw. I think it's sad." - Kuroky - Flap Flap Wings!
konadora *
Profile Blog Joined February 2009
Singapore66170 Posts
August 13 2019 10:58 GMT
#45
fastest non zvz bo5? lol
POGGERS
Jackal03
Profile Joined October 2009
Brazil7469 Posts
August 13 2019 10:58 GMT
#46
Rain easy 3-0

very bad display by sacsri
BW is back
Dante08
Profile Blog Joined February 2008
Singapore4128 Posts
August 13 2019 10:58 GMT
#47
I actually rushed home to watch this lol
RowdierBob
Profile Blog Joined May 2003
Australia13018 Posts
August 13 2019 10:58 GMT
#48
On August 13 2019 17:02 RowdierBob wrote:
I think Sacsri upsets Rain here.

Good call, me.
"Terrans are pretty much space-Australians" - H
veQ
Profile Joined November 2010
Poland339 Posts
August 13 2019 10:59 GMT
#49
Went too hard on 2nd push tbh, should have held for the lings ( Not suprised going against such powerhouse. Lookin forward to next ones
"Victory comes to those who look forward" Proud SPECTER EVO Owner - http://imgur.com/a/Me9LU
nojok
Profile Joined May 2011
France15845 Posts
August 13 2019 10:59 GMT
#50
On August 13 2019 19:58 RowdierBob wrote:
Show nested quote +
On August 13 2019 17:02 RowdierBob wrote:
I think Sacsri upsets Rain here.

Good call, me.

"Why did I practice so hard for this?" - upset Rain
"Back then teams that won were credited, now it's called throw. I think it's sad." - Kuroky - Flap Flap Wings!
BLinD-RawR
Profile Blog Joined April 2010
ALLEYCAT BLUES50158 Posts
August 13 2019 10:59 GMT
#51
Poll: Recommend Rain vs Sacsri Game 3?

No (13)
 
62%

If you have time (8)
 
38%

Yes (0)
 
0%

21 total votes

Your vote: Recommend Rain vs Sacsri Game 3?

(Vote): Yes
(Vote): No
(Vote): If you have time

Brood War EICWoo Jung Ho, never forget.| Twitter: @BLinDRawR
TL+ Member
Terrorbladder
Profile Joined May 2014
2719 Posts
August 13 2019 10:59 GMT
#52
That's a yikes from me, dawg.
My dream is to fertilize two females at a time.
IRseriousCat-
Profile Joined September 2017
74 Posts
Last Edited: 2019-08-13 10:59:52
August 13 2019 10:59 GMT
#53
4 Toss's got knocked out in the round of 16, but the 2 who made it are doing work!
BLinD-RawR
Profile Blog Joined April 2010
ALLEYCAT BLUES50158 Posts
August 13 2019 10:59 GMT
#54
under an hour
Brood War EICWoo Jung Ho, never forget.| Twitter: @BLinDRawR
TL+ Member
fearthequeen
Profile Joined November 2011
United States787 Posts
August 13 2019 11:00 GMT
#55
On August 13 2019 19:58 Jackal03 wrote:
Rain easy 3-0

very bad display by sacsri


Agreed. Rain deserves his 3-0, but glaring errors in all 3 games by Sacsri.
NAKR`flying
ggsimida
Profile Joined August 2015
1148 Posts
August 13 2019 11:01 GMT
#56
wrong zerg came out of that ro32 group

soma vs rain would have been much more competitive
Wonk
Profile Joined March 2017
546 Posts
Last Edited: 2019-08-13 11:10:06
August 13 2019 11:04 GMT
#57
wow, 57 minutes including ads and interviews, it wasn't even THAT huge of a bop but it was just decided very quick. Sacsri made a lot of good openings but rain's micro just patched up the cracks.

sacssri seemed very nervous, his nerves seemed to get worse as the games went on.

Flash vs. Rain will be one to watch, but I think Snow vs. Flash is the best final we could hope for.
Jackal03
Profile Joined October 2009
Brazil7469 Posts
August 13 2019 11:24 GMT
#58
Sacsri was very nervous, perhaps he was afraid of rain

He should work on his nerves, you can never be a champion if you don't have the right mindset
BW is back
BisuDagger
Profile Blog Joined October 2009
Bisutopia19246 Posts
August 13 2019 11:35 GMT
#59
I'm a huge fan of fast +1 speedlot builds. In response to Artosis advising against the probe cutting builds at lower levels, the Bisu variation of the build is more noob friendly if anyone wants to try it. However, I thought Rain's version was very impressive too. What he did better then most protoss these days is bounce with his army. Every macro round of gateway units went to a different base. It made me happy to see him play the matchup so well.
ModeratorFormer Afreeca Starleague Caster: http://afreeca.tv/ASL2ENG2
Wonk
Profile Joined March 2017
546 Posts
August 13 2019 11:40 GMT
#60
On August 13 2019 20:35 BisuDagger wrote:
I'm a huge fan of fast +1 speedlot builds. In response to Artosis advising against the probe cutting builds at lower levels, the Bisu variation of the build is more noob friendly if anyone wants to try it. However, I thought Rain's version was very impressive too. What he did better then most protoss these days is bounce with his army. Every macro round of gateway units went to a different base. It made me happy to see him play the matchup so well.


yeah, seeing the spread of those zealots between bases and sacsri's slow reaction to them shows how easy it is to fluster your opponent even at the top level
TaardadAiel
Profile Joined May 2017
Bulgaria750 Posts
Last Edited: 2019-08-13 13:57:12
August 13 2019 11:58 GMT
#61
On August 13 2019 20:24 Jackal03 wrote:
Sacsri was very nervous, perhaps he was afraid of rain

He should work on his nerves, you can never be a champion if you don't have the right mindset

Nothing too unexpected, that's his first ASL elimination match and he's up against the arguably best player in the world.

Rain played 14 games against Action on Saturday and won 8-6. Rain is just Rain, he struggles online against the top zergs and then when he has to prepare for a big match, he goes and comfortably outplays Action. This guy's head is huge.
WriterReV hwaiting!
Jackal03
Profile Joined October 2009
Brazil7469 Posts
August 13 2019 12:33 GMT
#62
On August 13 2019 20:58 TaardadAiel wrote:
Show nested quote +
On August 13 2019 20:24 Jackal03 wrote:
Sacsri was very nervous, perhaps he was afraid of rain

He should work on his nerves, you can never be a champion if you don't have the right mindset

Nothing too unexpected, that's his first ASL elimination match and he's up against the arguably best player in the world.

He played 14 games against Action on Saturday and won 8-6. Rain is just Rain, he struggles online against the top zergs and then when he has to prepare for a big match, he goes and comfortably outplays Action. This guy's head is huge.


Good to know, I hope he rises up and become a top zerg, we are missing great zerg players after effort left and jaedong is not top anymore
BW is back
TaardadAiel
Profile Joined May 2017
Bulgaria750 Posts
August 13 2019 12:44 GMT
#63
He's almost there, to be honest. He's improved tremendously in recent tournaments. Remember he beat Mini 3-0 and then narrowly lost the rematch 2-3 when Mini was in probably the best form of his career so far, particularly in PvZ. I don't think know if he has the psyche for the biggest of stages though.

But Rain is really peculiar, I sometimes think he's not entirely human. I mean, he's 4-10 vs Action in July, he loses left and right to ZerO and JD in early August and then he just decides he needs to up his game, plays 14 damn games in a row against same Action and defeats him. I am slightly worried for Flash, although I still consider him the favourite.
WriterReV hwaiting!
Greg_J
Profile Blog Joined July 2010
China4409 Posts
August 13 2019 12:54 GMT
#64
That was quick.
TornadoSteve
Profile Joined March 2018
1056 Posts
August 13 2019 14:11 GMT
#65
The first game of the series was one of the most impressive PvZ game ive seen and i feel like this is an under statement.
I watched it again, i am not even sure i can point out a single thing that Rain could have done better.
Ideas
Profile Blog Joined April 2008
United States8108 Posts
August 13 2019 14:58 GMT
#66
On August 13 2019 21:44 TaardadAiel wrote:
He's almost there, to be honest. He's improved tremendously in recent tournaments. Remember he beat Mini 3-0 and then narrowly lost the rematch 2-3 when Mini was in probably the best form of his career so far, particularly in PvZ. I don't think know if he has the psyche for the biggest of stages though.

But Rain is really peculiar, I sometimes think he's not entirely human. I mean, he's 4-10 vs Action in July, he loses left and right to ZerO and JD in early August and then he just decides he needs to up his game, plays 14 damn games in a row against same Action and defeats him. I am slightly worried for Flash, although I still consider him the favourite.


I think Action has a pretty good shot at taking down Snow in the Ro4. I'd only put Snow at a 55% advantage. I don't think Action has the mechanics of an effort or SK to be a real tournament winner yet, but he's definitely a competent series player and very tricky.

Rain played basically perfectly today? Sacscri definitely had some nerves issues :\.

The Ro4 is going to be sick.
Free Palestine
BisuDagger
Profile Blog Joined October 2009
Bisutopia19246 Posts
Last Edited: 2019-08-13 16:15:32
August 13 2019 16:14 GMT
#67
On August 13 2019 23:11 TornadoSteve wrote:
The first game of the series was one of the most impressive PvZ game ive seen and i feel like this is an under statement.
I watched it again, i am not even sure i can point out a single thing that Rain could have done better.

The major flaw in game 1 was that he was forced to build a dragoon.It tells the whole build. Overlord scouts no stargate, the forge spinning, and a dragoon means corsairs are not coming for this fast speedlot build. Once the dragoon was out the build was blown, but surprisingly Sacsri didn't understand what he was seeing at the time due to nerves.
ModeratorFormer Afreeca Starleague Caster: http://afreeca.tv/ASL2ENG2
TelecoM
Profile Blog Joined January 2010
United States10673 Posts
August 13 2019 16:49 GMT
#68
Where are the VOD's?
AKA: TelecoM[WHITE] Protoss fighting
VioleTAK
Profile Joined July 2006
4315 Posts
Last Edited: 2019-08-13 17:06:50
August 13 2019 16:50 GMT
#69
I know it was his attempt at mind games (at least I hope), but when he said in the pre interview he was going to 3-0 vs Rain, I literally said out loud "pleb! your power trip is about to end" hehe, and I'm not a fan of Rain, its just that his first time to Ro8 against someone of Rain's caliber, and if he was to actually win, vs Flash at Ro4, showing some respect is also an option at those interviews. But its all good he went for the attempted mindgames... Didn't quite work out for him.

I loved how Tasteless caught the fact that Rain only had his probes on the 2nd gas while the overlord was watching, well done!

And I loved the nuance of the fan showing an image of Rain and Bisu together, as the master is back.
Every fan of Starcraft is a fan of Lim Yo Hwan by association
VioleTAK
Profile Joined July 2006
4315 Posts
August 13 2019 16:52 GMT
#70
On August 14 2019 01:49 GGzerG wrote:
Where are the VOD's?

http://vod.afreecatv.com/PLAYER/STATION/46820048
Every fan of Starcraft is a fan of Lim Yo Hwan by association
VioleTAK
Profile Joined July 2006
4315 Posts
August 13 2019 17:09 GMT
#71
As big a venue as they can come up with for Rain vs Flash, will be packed to the brim and overflowing. This is a finals in its own right.
Every fan of Starcraft is a fan of Lim Yo Hwan by association
TornadoSteve
Profile Joined March 2018
1056 Posts
August 13 2019 17:24 GMT
#72
On August 14 2019 01:14 BisuDagger wrote:
Show nested quote +
On August 13 2019 23:11 TornadoSteve wrote:
The first game of the series was one of the most impressive PvZ game ive seen and i feel like this is an under statement.
I watched it again, i am not even sure i can point out a single thing that Rain could have done better.

The major flaw in game 1 was that he was forced to build a dragoon.It tells the whole build. Overlord scouts no stargate, the forge spinning, and a dragoon means corsairs are not coming for this fast speedlot build. Once the dragoon was out the build was blown, but surprisingly Sacsri didn't understand what he was seeing at the time due to nerves.


Theres that, but i assume at this level hiding a pylon into another main to hide a citadel would be quite dumb. I mean at this level, you cant quite surprise your opponent with what youre doing, you can just surprise your opponent with the timing that you are doing it. And his build did about just that, cutting probes to build the nexus at 11 actually make Rain to make his 2nd pylon when his cybernetic core was almost done. He started his citadel right after his 2nd pylon, which is crazy fast.

I dont know if he knew that sacsri had no plans to build a spire whatsoever, but his build in the first 2 games was just perfect counter. And his army movements (it has been discussed before) is probably the best in the business at the moment, along with Flash.

People are impressed with Rain's macro, fair enough, but while hes macroing on his tiny screen_lol, he also move his army in a way that even Bisu has never did before. Note how he cleaned the scouting path for the 4 templars to attack the 3rd, and he even escorted them with his 1st group of zealots a few seconds before. Flawless
outscar
Profile Joined September 2014
2832 Posts
August 13 2019 17:40 GMT
#73
What a massacre. Rain is becoming such a scary protoss lately, almost Bisu level. I really want him to be able to take out FlaSh so God maybe will consider for another ASL run before his military (plus we gonna see Bisu) so he can get his trophy although his doctor already warned him.
sunbeams are never made like me...
Qikz
Profile Blog Joined November 2009
United Kingdom12022 Posts
August 13 2019 17:53 GMT
#74
Damn, schedule change so no ASL at the weekend when I can watch it live
FanTaSy's #1 Fan | STPL Caster/Organiser | SKT BEST KT | https://twitch.tv/stpl
PVJ
Profile Blog Joined July 2012
Hungary5221 Posts
August 13 2019 18:15 GMT
#75
Rain to me looks bit like those solve Rubik's cube in seconds, Michael Bay's transformers assemble slower than the toss army in game 1 and 2. I thought this series was wild and lovely. I now have conflict of interests where watching Action die to Rain sounds as good final as Snow v. Flash.
The heart's eternal vow
letian
Profile Blog Joined May 2010
Germany4221 Posts
August 13 2019 18:48 GMT
#76
Where can I watch the games? Afreeca links are not working for me.
VioleTAK
Profile Joined July 2006
4315 Posts
Last Edited: 2019-08-13 19:03:35
August 13 2019 19:03 GMT
#77
On August 14 2019 03:48 letian wrote:
Where can I watch the games? Afreeca links are not working for me.

If you're ok without the English cast, then Flash uploaded his commentary on youtube for all the games.
Every fan of Starcraft is a fan of Lim Yo Hwan by association
fearthequeen
Profile Joined November 2011
United States787 Posts
Last Edited: 2019-08-13 19:34:41
August 13 2019 19:14 GMT
#78
On August 14 2019 01:14 BisuDagger wrote:
Show nested quote +
On August 13 2019 23:11 TornadoSteve wrote:
The first game of the series was one of the most impressive PvZ game ive seen and i feel like this is an under statement.
I watched it again, i am not even sure i can point out a single thing that Rain could have done better.

The major flaw in game 1 was that he was forced to build a dragoon.It tells the whole build. Overlord scouts no stargate, the forge spinning, and a dragoon means corsairs are not coming for this fast speedlot build. Once the dragoon was out the build was blown, but surprisingly Sacsri didn't understand what he was seeing at the time due to nerves.


The dragoon to kill overlord is not necessarily a tell of a non sair opening. It's more like "ok they are staying in my main with overlord, free kill." The early supply block on Zerg really hurts them, and denying the scouting is good regardless of P build. Protosses WILL do this with sair openings.

Edit: a few related details about game 1 - Tasteless pointed out that Rain made the 2nd gas and then pulled ALL 3 probes off once scouting was denied @ natural. Sacsri never actually saw the citadel in main with initial overlord, the only info was that +1 timing on forge and presumably he saw the 2nd gas as well. So yes you know it will be some kind of zealot opening, but the follow up is not clear at all. Sacsri might presume from 2nd gas it is an archon or sair follow up rather than the straight 4 gates before other tech.
NAKR`flying
PVJ
Profile Blog Joined July 2012
Hungary5221 Posts
August 13 2019 19:47 GMT
#79
On August 13 2019 19:59 BLinD-RawR wrote:
Poll: Recommend Rain vs Sacsri Game 3?

No (13)
 
62%

If you have time (8)
 
38%

Yes (0)
 
0%

21 total votes

Your vote: Recommend Rain vs Sacsri Game 3?

(Vote): Yes
(Vote): No
(Vote): If you have time


I think the probe pulls deserve an "If you have time" vote.
The heart's eternal vow
Miragee
Profile Joined December 2009
8512 Posts
August 13 2019 21:01 GMT
#80
wow, that was more one-sided than I expected. Game 3 perfectly shows that 500 apm means nothing if you don't have the multitasking to support them...
Geographer
Profile Joined December 2010
United States185 Posts
August 13 2019 21:08 GMT
#81
What a pathetic showing by the zerg. Zergs used to stomp Protosses with hydra busts as regularly as the sun rising in the east, now they can't pull it off at all. What changed?
fearthequeen
Profile Joined November 2011
United States787 Posts
August 13 2019 21:40 GMT
#82
On August 14 2019 06:08 Geographer wrote:
What a pathetic showing by the zerg. Zergs used to stomp Protosses with hydra busts as regularly as the sun rising in the east, now they can't pull it off at all. What changed?


Nothing changed in a general sense of the matchup. Rain v Sacsri was arguably the best P right now vs an up and coming Z who had a bad day. Games 2 and 3 were quite winnable positions for Sacsri. He had good ideas all 3 games, but again the execution was lacking compared to Rain's near flawless execution.
NAKR`flying
StarscreamG1
Profile Joined February 2011
Portugal1653 Posts
Last Edited: 2019-08-13 23:27:46
August 13 2019 23:24 GMT
#83
How can I watch the games? Aren't the games on twitch or youtube anymore? I can't make it with Afreeca :-(
EDIT: Forget it, just found the list on Afreeca and Youtube
http://bj.afreecatv.com/aslenglish/vods
AfreecaTV eSports
ggrrg
Profile Blog Joined September 2009
Bulgaria2716 Posts
August 14 2019 00:50 GMT
#84
Flawless performance by Rain. It felt like rain was in control for the entirety of all games. Sacsri's attack in G3 was the only moment when it felt like he had any chance, but then Rain pulled off that insane probe pull ^^

On August 13 2019 23:58 Ideas wrote:
Show nested quote +
On August 13 2019 21:44 TaardadAiel wrote:
He's almost there, to be honest. He's improved tremendously in recent tournaments. Remember he beat Mini 3-0 and then narrowly lost the rematch 2-3 when Mini was in probably the best form of his career so far, particularly in PvZ. I don't think know if he has the psyche for the biggest of stages though.

But Rain is really peculiar, I sometimes think he's not entirely human. I mean, he's 4-10 vs Action in July, he loses left and right to ZerO and JD in early August and then he just decides he needs to up his game, plays 14 damn games in a row against same Action and defeats him. I am slightly worried for Flash, although I still consider him the favourite.


I think Action has a pretty good shot at taking down Snow in the Ro4. I'd only put Snow at a 55% advantage. I don't think Action has the mechanics of an effort or SK to be a real tournament winner yet, but he's definitely a competent series player and very tricky.

Rain played basically perfectly today? Sacscri definitely had some nerves issues :\.

The Ro4 is going to be sick.


I also feel that Action has a decent shot against Snow, but I surely hope that he loses. Despite Rain's online PvZ performance I expect Action to look only marginally better than Sacsri in the finals of the ASL. And if Flash reaches the finals, he will most likely simply speedrun through Action...


On August 14 2019 01:50 VioleTAK wrote:
...
I loved how Tasteless caught the fact that Rain only had his probes on the 2nd gas while the overlord was watching, well done!

...


Tasteless casting bw PvX is absolutely incomparable to him casting any other bw matchup of any sc2 games.
ShowTheLights
Profile Blog Joined June 2012
Korea (South)1689 Posts
Last Edited: 2019-08-14 01:35:07
August 14 2019 01:33 GMT
#85
On August 13 2019 19:45 nojok wrote:
Hurr durr zealots 1A2A3A


Are you fucking dumb? Rain sent out a 2nd probe, something 99% of protoss's never do (including him, his starsense felt the desperateness from the Zerg). He easily could have gotten busted that game



User was warned for this post.
•••Acer.MMA••• <> KT_Puzzle <> JinAir•GreenWings_CoCa <> CJ_herO <> Axiom CranK & Ryung <> IM_Seed <> IM_Squirtle <> le' ToD <> Innovation <> ROOT_CatZ <> inuh! <> Chobra <> SKT1_Fantasy
konadora *
Profile Blog Joined February 2009
Singapore66170 Posts
August 14 2019 02:50 GMT
#86
at least snow/action vs flash will be fun
POGGERS
BigBalls
Profile Blog Joined May 2003
United States5354 Posts
August 14 2019 03:39 GMT
#87
Tried Rain's 11 nexus 11 forge build on ladder today, got 4 pooled and lost immediately
if you guys could use google and post direct links to the maphacks here it would be greatly appreciated. - Nazgul
Sabu113
Profile Blog Joined August 2009
United States11048 Posts
August 14 2019 04:56 GMT
#88
http://vod.afreecatv.com/PLAYER/STATION/46820048 if anoyne wants the direct link.
Biomine is a drunken chick who is on industrial strength amphetamines and would just grab your dick and jerk it as hard and violently as she could while screaming 'OMG FUCK ME', because she saw it in a Sasha Grey video ...-Wombat_Ni
TaardadAiel
Profile Joined May 2017
Bulgaria750 Posts
August 14 2019 09:57 GMT
#89
On August 14 2019 10:33 ShowTheLights wrote:
Show nested quote +
On August 13 2019 19:45 nojok wrote:
Hurr durr zealots 1A2A3A


Are you fucking dumb? Rain sent out a 2nd probe, something 99% of protoss's never do (including him, his starsense felt the desperateness from the Zerg). He easily could have gotten busted that game


I don't mean to pry when you have such a good time insulting someone online because HE'S WRONG ON THE INTERNET, but this could've been ironic.
WriterReV hwaiting!
JoinTheRain
Profile Blog Joined September 2018
Bulgaria408 Posts
August 14 2019 10:21 GMT
#90
What a lovely and fascinating display of skill by Rain. And vice versa, Sacsri's showing was pitiful. It should be due to him being with the wrong mindset and desiring to please the audience and everyone else but him. If he had come out with just the aim to do what he is best at and not care for viewers, maybe we would have had even more entertaining games.
But even as they are short and brutal - they were spectacular in their own way. Rain was just too good today.
The subject-matter of the art of living is each person's own life.
Alpha-NP-
Profile Blog Joined September 2008
United States1242 Posts
August 14 2019 15:10 GMT
#91
Guys who do you think the stronger Protoss is between Snow and Rain? Like I know Rain is the best PvP player and always wins Snow. But PvZ and PvT, to me, it seems like Snow is the better player. I remember Snow outplaying Jaedong PvZ in a recent tour. And Snow also beat Flash to win an ASL albeit on P favored maps. What is others opinions? Thanks.
BlueStar
Profile Blog Joined August 2005
Bulgaria1167 Posts
August 14 2019 15:53 GMT
#92
On August 15 2019 00:10 Alpha-NP- wrote:
Guys who do you think the stronger Protoss is between Snow and Rain? Like I know Rain is the best PvP player and always wins Snow. But PvZ and PvT, to me, it seems like Snow is the better player. I remember Snow outplaying Jaedong PvZ in a recent tour. And Snow also beat Flash to win an ASL albeit on P favored maps. What is others opinions? Thanks.

very much depends on their current shape and mood.
I'd say snows PvT is better than Rain
and Rain's PvZ is stronger than Snow

But, trust me - it's just personal opinion, everything can look way different depending from game to game.
Leader of the Bulgarian National SCBW/SC2 team and team pSi.SCBW/SC2
Wonk
Profile Joined March 2017
546 Posts
August 14 2019 16:00 GMT
#93
On August 15 2019 00:10 Alpha-NP- wrote:
Guys who do you think the stronger Protoss is between Snow and Rain? Like I know Rain is the best PvP player and always wins Snow. But PvZ and PvT, to me, it seems like Snow is the better player. I remember Snow outplaying Jaedong PvZ in a recent tour. And Snow also beat Flash to win an ASL albeit on P favored maps. What is others opinions? Thanks.


Really difficult to call. Rain get a lot of hype because of how good his PvP is, but his PvT and PvZ leave a bit to be desired (at the top level). Snow's PvT is immaculate, and he's been showing good form with PvZ through reaver usage, but still he's inconsistent. It's too hard to call who's the best "protoss" (at least til bisu gets back)

really there's nothing that i can say that'll change your mind.
QOGQOG
Profile Joined July 2019
834 Posts
Last Edited: 2019-08-14 16:14:00
August 14 2019 16:10 GMT
#94
On August 15 2019 00:10 Alpha-NP- wrote:
Guys who do you think the stronger Protoss is between Snow and Rain? Like I know Rain is the best PvP player and always wins Snow. But PvZ and PvT, to me, it seems like Snow is the better player. I remember Snow outplaying Jaedong PvZ in a recent tour. And Snow also beat Flash to win an ASL albeit on P favored maps. What is others opinions? Thanks.

I'm a big Snow fan, so a little biased, but I think Snow is stronger on the whole. While he doesn't have the titles, if it weren't for having to PvP Rain, he probably would have won ASL5 and KSL3--he eliminated the defending champions in both.

PvP: Rain is way better than everyone else. Snow is arguably second best, but it's a wide gap. Advantage: Rain.

PvZ: The last time Rain faced a high end zerg was him going 0-3 against Effort in ASL7. Snow recently won 3-1 against Soulkey in KSL3 (also beat him in ASL7). Effort is/was better and more consistent than Soulkey, but I don't know of any time where Rain actually defeated a great zerg. Probably the weakest matchup for both of them, though both have gotten better over time, especially Snow who used to always lose. Advantage: Snow.

PvT: Snow is the only one to defeat Flash, but Rain hasn't ever faced him offline. They've both had some inconsistency: Snow has a habit of getting knocked out of qualifiers by low-tier terrans, while Rain has a more back-and-forth record vs, say, Last, while Snow consistently stomps. There's some rivalry between Rain and Sharp as well, whereas Snow won easily against Sharp the one time they played (KSL1).

However, Snow is the stronger of the two because Snow has never lost a series to a terran in ASL or KSL. The only time I'm aware of that Snow was eliminated by a terran is when he got proxied by Last in a Bo1 in ASL7. Advantage: Snow.

All that said, the Ro4 matchups will probably show us a lot: they're each essentially facing harder versions of the other's Ro8 matches.
Jaeyun
Profile Joined June 2017
United States202 Posts
August 14 2019 16:39 GMT
#95
Snow and Rain are both amazing players. At the highest of levels (and at any level, really), your mental game at offline events is going to be a large determinant in overall skill. Snow absolutely possesses the mechanical skill/talent to be the best Protoss but he needs to get his confidence rolling (and it's been, but needs a championship), and confidence comes from results, not your raw talent when you're laddering at home.

I used to say the same about Effort for a long time - I always considered him to be one of the most mechanically dominant players of all time (all races), but he kept flopping out of tournaments left and right until ASL6 came around and showed how good he could be at his best.

I'm rooting for Snow to win this entire thing just for the storylines. With Snow at the top of his game, Rain still quite dominant, and Bisu back, it will be a great time for Starcraft.

www.twitch.tv/jaeyun
fearthequeen
Profile Joined November 2011
United States787 Posts
August 14 2019 19:33 GMT
#96
On August 14 2019 12:39 BigBalls wrote:
Tried Rain's 11 nexus 11 forge build on ladder today, got 4 pooled and lost immediately


Hah, that'll happen. Just a note on this build, because Tastosis was making this sound like a completely new thing.

It's not Rain's build, it had been around for awhile. Some may remember it being used at the end of the Proleague era on Chain Reaction. It may have been used prior to that as well, just going from memory here.

It's mostly meant for 2 player maps with rush distance long enough to where you can still defend vs overpool. But Protosses have mixed this build in on all maps for years.
NAKR`flying
EndingLife
Profile Blog Joined December 2002
United States1594 Posts
Last Edited: 2019-08-14 20:00:20
August 14 2019 19:59 GMT
#97
On August 15 2019 04:33 fearthequeen wrote:
Show nested quote +
On August 14 2019 12:39 BigBalls wrote:
Tried Rain's 11 nexus 11 forge build on ladder today, got 4 pooled and lost immediately


Hah, that'll happen. Just a note on this build, because Tastosis was making this sound like a completely new thing.

It's not Rain's build, it had been around for awhile. Some may remember it being used at the end of the Proleague era on Chain Reaction. It may have been used prior to that as well, just going from memory here.

It's mostly meant for 2 player maps with rush distance long enough to where you can still defend vs overpool. But Protosses have mixed this build in on all maps for years.

I'd recommend trying nexus first when you're at top right, bottom left FS. 12 Nex, 12 forge, 12 cannon. 1 hex gap in wall
KobraKay
Profile Joined March 2010
Portugal4231 Posts
August 14 2019 21:07 GMT
#98
On August 15 2019 01:39 Jaeyun wrote:
Snow and Rain are both amazing players. At the highest of levels (and at any level, really), your mental game at offline events is going to be a large determinant in overall skill. Snow absolutely possesses the mechanical skill/talent to be the best Protoss but he needs to get his confidence rolling (and it's been, but needs a championship), and confidence comes from results, not your raw talent when you're laddering at home.

I used to say the same about Effort for a long time - I always considered him to be one of the most mechanically dominant players of all time (all races), but he kept flopping out of tournaments left and right until ASL6 came around and showed how good he could be at his best.

I'm rooting for Snow to win this entire thing just for the storylines. With Snow at the top of his game, Rain still quite dominant, and Bisu back, it will be a great time for Starcraft.



I am not sure if I am going to give you some big news or something, but EffOrt won an OSL final against Flash on his Godhood days/form (i.e., long before there was anything like ASL or even a prospect of that, in a time before SC2). So he had his confidence (he carried CJ for such a long time) and he was an A class player (S class in some days) of that time.

EffOrt was always one of my favourite players but denying Flash that day (OSL) made me scream and shout a lot of awful things at him :´) IIRC Flash was 2-0 up and got reverse murdered by EffOrt
CJ Fighting! (--.--)
fearthequeen
Profile Joined November 2011
United States787 Posts
Last Edited: 2019-08-14 21:10:30
August 14 2019 21:09 GMT
#99
@ EL
Yeah. One of the reasons a lot of zergs (including me) will argue FS is P favored in PvZ, these 1 gap walls. P can get a free lead in 1/7 if it's not 9p or less. IDK, maybe zergs should adjust with more 9p speeds if they spawn 11/5.

How close is the cannon timing 12/12/12 vs overpool?
NAKR`flying
EndingLife
Profile Blog Joined December 2002
United States1594 Posts
August 14 2019 21:52 GMT
#100
On August 15 2019 06:09 fearthequeen wrote:
@ EL
Yeah. One of the reasons a lot of zergs (including me) will argue FS is P favored in PvZ, these 1 gap walls. P can get a free lead in 1/7 if it's not 9p or less. IDK, maybe zergs should adjust with more 9p speeds if they spawn 11/5.

How close is the cannon timing 12/12/12 vs overpool?

While FS might have a small edge for protoss in those 2 positions, I feel CB has a pretty big edge for zerg in all positions.
It's much easier for zerg to obtain gas bases (4 base turtle) while toss struggles for 3rd gas.
The 1 gap wall is pretty damn imba. I like it most when opening 9 gate expand. Having to kill the pylon later on to get dragoons out isn't even much of a setback either. IIRC protoss has to pull 1 probe to complete the wall vs cross positions and has to pull 2 probes vs non cross positions. If protoss isn't great at control maybe add another probe vs both positions. I honestly don't see many protoss players doing these walls as much as they used to. I'd say mix in 11 hatch, 12 hatch, 9 pool + extra drone and 9 pool speed every once in a while, especially if you're playing the same opponent multiple games.
Ideas
Profile Blog Joined April 2008
United States8108 Posts
Last Edited: 2019-08-14 22:38:43
August 14 2019 22:34 GMT
#101
On August 15 2019 01:10 QOGQOG wrote:
Show nested quote +
On August 15 2019 00:10 Alpha-NP- wrote:
Guys who do you think the stronger Protoss is between Snow and Rain? Like I know Rain is the best PvP player and always wins Snow. But PvZ and PvT, to me, it seems like Snow is the better player. I remember Snow outplaying Jaedong PvZ in a recent tour. And Snow also beat Flash to win an ASL albeit on P favored maps. What is others opinions? Thanks.

I'm a big Snow fan, so a little biased, but I think Snow is stronger on the whole. While he doesn't have the titles, if it weren't for having to PvP Rain, he probably would have won ASL5 and KSL3--he eliminated the defending champions in both.

PvP: Rain is way better than everyone else. Snow is arguably second best, but it's a wide gap. Advantage: Rain.

PvZ: The last time Rain faced a high end zerg was him going 0-3 against Effort in ASL7. Snow recently won 3-1 against Soulkey in KSL3 (also beat him in ASL7). Effort is/was better and more consistent than Soulkey, but I don't know of any time where Rain actually defeated a great zerg. Probably the weakest matchup for both of them, though both have gotten better over time, especially Snow who used to always lose. Advantage: Snow.

PvT: Snow is the only one to defeat Flash, but Rain hasn't ever faced him offline. They've both had some inconsistency: Snow has a habit of getting knocked out of qualifiers by low-tier terrans, while Rain has a more back-and-forth record vs, say, Last, while Snow consistently stomps. There's some rivalry between Rain and Sharp as well, whereas Snow won easily against Sharp the one time they played (KSL1).

However, Snow is the stronger of the two because Snow has never lost a series to a terran in ASL or KSL. The only time I'm aware of that Snow was eliminated by a terran is when he got proxied by Last in a Bo1 in ASL7. Advantage: Snow.

All that said, the Ro4 matchups will probably show us a lot: they're each essentially facing harder versions of the other's Ro8 matches.


Yeah that analysis seems pretty apt. Rain is undoubtedly the best PvPer of the era. Snow seems to have the best PvT (I'd put rain at a close second). Both can have incredibly strong PvZ but are also inconsistent in it (which basically goes for mini as well, who actually might have the strongest pvz when he's not tilted, at least until Bisu gets back in shape).
Free Palestine
RowdierBob
Profile Blog Joined May 2003
Australia13018 Posts
August 15 2019 04:37 GMT
#102
I think Flash will wreck Rain. Not sure if such a hot take but I’d be surprised if he took more than 1 game.
"Terrans are pretty much space-Australians" - H
TaardadAiel
Profile Joined May 2017
Bulgaria750 Posts
August 15 2019 11:18 GMT
#103
Last time Rain tried to outmindgame a Terran, he lost to Last.

Let's see if he tries to do that again.

And I agree with QOGQOG's assessment, especially considering PvZ. Snow has improved immensely.
WriterReV hwaiting!
Malongo
Profile Blog Joined November 2005
Chile3472 Posts
August 16 2019 11:15 GMT
#104
On August 15 2019 20:18 TaardadAiel wrote:
Last time Rain tried to outmindgame a Terran, he lost to beat Last in KSL3.

Let's see if he tries to do that again.

And I agree with QOGQOG's assessment, especially considering PvZ. Snow has improved immensely.

Help me! im still improving my English. An eye for an eye makes the whole world blind. M. G.
Alpha-NP-
Profile Blog Joined September 2008
United States1242 Posts
Last Edited: 2019-08-17 03:18:05
August 16 2019 15:16 GMT
#105
Looks like Action might not play next round because his appendix burst. Spoilered meme below.
superjoppe
Profile Joined December 2004
Sweden3683 Posts
August 16 2019 17:08 GMT
#106
On August 15 2019 13:37 RowdierBob wrote:
I think Flash will wreck Rain. Not sure if such a hot take but I’d be surprised if he took more than 1 game.

Considering Flash will stop tournaments due to elevated body pain, I’ll vote for Rain.
VioleTAK
Profile Joined July 2006
4315 Posts
Last Edited: 2019-08-16 18:47:22
August 16 2019 18:36 GMT
#107
Flash is barely playing anymore. Rain is practicing PvT nonstop, he's got a good chance. I think the series will be amazing and close under the overall current situation. I still give the edge to Flash, but it might be close, which is awesome
Every fan of Starcraft is a fan of Lim Yo Hwan by association
KamMoye
Profile Joined December 2010
United States721 Posts
Last Edited: 2019-08-19 04:24:15
August 19 2019 04:21 GMT
#108
Are you watching? Flash completely dominates every time he's in KCM. It's unfair. Watch him dismantle the "next best" in the most recent KCM. Complete joke. Flash has been playing a different game for a long time. He's ~80% to win in any individual match.

He simply doesn't have a weakness. Army movement. Macro. Micro. Tactics. Strategy. Experience. Short games, long games. He seems virtually cheese-proof.

A lot of things went right for ZerO and Best v Flash this week in KCM. Didn't matter. It just didn't matter. Best friggin' 12 nexuses in a cross position. The best macro toss in the world with the optimal opening vs the best player in the world. It still didn't matter.

Rain has the best chance of anyone. Not saying much, though. I predict 3-1 Flash.

On August 17 2019 00:16 Alpha-NP- wrote:
Looks like Action might not play next round because his appendix burst. Spoilered meme below.



Awful news. Gotta feel for the guy. Flash will be winning this for his old KT Rolster buddy Action.
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