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On June 10 2019 19:42 JoinTheRain wrote:Show nested quote +On June 09 2019 06:59 Geographer wrote:
KSL 3 had the worst games of any tournament since the last OSL. Do you actually mean the OSL with Jangbi vs Zero and then when he won vs Flash and Fantasy to win his second OSL? If so, just pick another game if that OSL was boring to you. I was at the end pf my seat back then.
I guess he just meant that it had the worst games post KeSPA, not that that OSL was bad. Indeed, if one thinks Zero vs Jangbi was boring he probably hangs on the rooftops of tall building without security devices.
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I was a bit disappointing in the finals, the commentary was great though so I had a great time.
Rain was just playing beautifully and Mini was never really able to get into it, and when he did, Rain worked his PvP magic.
Storks resurgence and some new protoss plays made this season great imo, it felt a bit weaker overall than most others since the resurgence but it was still great!
On June 11 2019 00:11 Amarillo Caballero wrote:
Question, so I have never watched Brood War before but watched Rain and Mini. There were a couple of engagements that were ruined by what Tasteless called a Dragoon stop bug. Why did they never patch this? As a first time watcher it really hurt my interest in the game.
The bugs in Brood War are part of the game, it is what makes micro so important.
You have to embrace the bugs to appreciate BW.
Weird pathing, dud scarabs etc. are a huge part of the game
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On June 12 2019 04:17 Barneyk wrote:I was a bit disappointing in the finals, the commentary was great though so I had a great time. Rain was just playing beautifully and Mini was never really able to get into it, and when he did, Rain worked his PvP magic. Storks resurgence and some new protoss plays made this season great imo, it felt a bit weaker overall than most others since the resurgence but it was still great! Show nested quote +On June 11 2019 00:11 Amarillo Caballero wrote:
Question, so I have never watched Brood War before but watched Rain and Mini. There were a couple of engagements that were ruined by what Tasteless called a Dragoon stop bug. Why did they never patch this? As a first time watcher it really hurt my interest in the game. The bugs in Brood War are part of the game, it is what makes micro so important. You have to embrace the bugs to appreciate BW. Weird pathing, dud scarabs etc. are a huge part of the game
I'd also like to add that the bug doesn't normally make a big difference in games so these games didn't really give the best impression of how the game is like. That said, I kind of wished they fixed it a long time ago but I think it's too late now since most BW players are reluctant about changing balance in any way through patches. Also, even though reaver scarabs dud a lot, it depends a lot on whether there are buildings or minerals blocking the scarab so even that isn't super luck based imo.
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On top of that, the Dragoon stop bug is almost entirely preventable and can be fixed almost immediately upon noticing it. If that is enough to kill your interest in the game, you weren't going to be playing long anyway, since your opponent is far more frustrating than the UI is.
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On June 12 2019 12:41 Jealous wrote:
On top of that, the Dragoon stop bug is almost entirely preventable and can be fixed almost immediately upon noticing it. If that is enough to kill your interest in the game, you weren't going to be playing long anyway, since your opponent is far more frustrating than the UI is.
I've never played brood war before. I'm sure it's super fun to play. It was just dissappointing as a curious spectator to see a unit just stop moving affect what looked like an even engagement. Definitely not here to criticize, sorry if it seemed that way. I was a fan of Rain in sc2 so it's nice to see him doing well.
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On June 12 2019 13:00 Amarillo Caballero wrote:Show nested quote +On June 12 2019 12:41 Jealous wrote:
On top of that, the Dragoon stop bug is almost entirely preventable and can be fixed almost immediately upon noticing it. If that is enough to kill your interest in the game, you weren't going to be playing long anyway, since your opponent is far more frustrating than the UI is. I've never played brood war before. I'm sure it's super fun to play. It was just dissappointing as a curious spectator to see a unit just stop moving affect what looked like an even engagement. Definitely not here to criticize, sorry if it seemed that way. I was a fan of Rain in sc2 so it's nice to see him doing well.
The reason the bug happens is because a player actively selected that unit (in this case a Dragoon) and manually told it to fire at a specific enemy unit that exits the original unit's attack range mid-animation. In other words, if the player hadn't targeted a unit that was already running away from it, or had just done a standard attack-move, there would be no bug. This isn't to say that the bug isn't frustrating and that targeting a specific unit isn't sometimes the optimal choice, but it is something that can be fixed with two clicks upon noticing it happening, and you can anticipate it happening when you target a unit moving away from you. If it affected an engagement, it's because the player who was controlling the Dragoon did what is an effectively higher risk higher reward choice (targeting a specific unit that is retreating) and then looked away without confirming that the risk had paid off. To put it more simply, it was a conscious decision from the player to do something that creates the opportunity for said bug to manifest. It's not like this is a very common situation, but it is common enough that players should take it into account, especially professionals. A lot of BW is about bugs that became features or bugs that you can abuse/avoid. And yes, your post did come off as very "wow one bug in one game, BW dumb broken game, bye," to me personally, but perhaps I've just grown tired of seeing these kinds of criticisms over the decades during which people from other games come here to simply shit on the game and blindly threw you in with that lot, so I'm sorry for that if that wasn't your intention.
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anyone who hates on flash vs fantasy and jangbi vs zero truly isn't a fan of starcraft.
Do you actually mean the OSL with Jangbi vs Zero and then when he won vs Flash and Fantasy to win his second OSL? If so, just pick another game if that OSL was boring to you. I was at the end pf my seat back then.
I loved those matches! They were the peak of Broodwar. I meant to say that the games of KSL 3 were the least interesting of all the post-KESPA era games.
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On June 09 2019 15:22 ShowTheLights wrote:
Who the FUCK said Rain was overrated at the beginning of this season?
WHO? where you at NOW?
Lets FUCKING GO RAIN
THE GOD
It was me, I was one of these.
I mean, his PvP is super super good, and these matches really solidified that. Credit where it's due. I'll go on being an anti-fan but respecting him a bunch more.
Still waiting to see such crushing play in his other matchups, though.
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Bulgaria750 Posts
On June 14 2019 11:52 Turbovolver wrote:Show nested quote +On June 09 2019 15:22 ShowTheLights wrote:
Who the FUCK said Rain was overrated at the beginning of this season?
WHO? where you at NOW?
Lets FUCKING GO RAIN
THE GOD It was me, I was one of these. I mean, his PvP is super super good, and these matches really solidified that. Credit where it's due. I'll go on being an anti-fan but respecting him a bunch more. Still waiting to see such crushing play in his other matchups, though.
I don't like Rain too much, but man, he won against Last and Sharp, the best Terran players in the tournament. It's his PvZ, really.
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I think some people thought Rain was overrated because Tastosis hyped him a lot earlier on (probably in large part because he was a great SC2 player) and he wasn't able to make very deep runs for a long time. Ever since ASL 5 though, I think he has come into his own and has been the strongest Protoss for a long time. His PvZ seems a lot weaker than his PvT and PvP but is there really any Protoss left who isn't like that? Overall, I think he is showing himself to be one of the most talented Starcraft players of all time considering his success in both games.
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His PvZ is fine, tbh, not sure where this narrative that his PvZ sucks is coming from. It’s not legendary or revolutionary but he can play both early, mid, and late very well.
Losing to a guy like Effort or other top tier Zergs in a mini-era where Zergs were at its peak for a bit (less Flash) doesn’t mean his PvZ has problems. It means his opponents were just really good. Even still, he took out Soulkey BO7 in the 3rd/4th place match of KSL just fine and knocked out Hero in ASL. Trust me, no pro Zerg playing Rain is thinking it’s going to be a walk in the park.
Most of my commentary above comes from watching their actual streams and comments from other pros about him, rather than only tournament results, which ultimately determines greatness, but still needs context.
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On June 15 2019 02:35 Jaeyun wrote:
His PvZ is fine, tbh, not sure where this narrative that his PvZ sucks is coming from. It’s not legendary or revolutionary but he can play both early, mid, and late very well.
Losing to a guy like Effort or other top tier Zergs in a mini-era where Zergs were at its peak for a bit (less Flash) doesn’t mean his PvZ has problems. It means his opponents were just really good. Even still, he took out Soulkey BO7 in the 3rd/4th place match of KSL just fine and knocked out Hero in ASL.
Most of my commentary above comes from watching their actual streams and comments from other pros about him, rather than only tournament results, which ultimately determines greatness, but still needs context.
Bisu ruined PvZ standards for everyone IMO. Made it feel like it was Bisu and everyone else, even though plenty of people in late KeSPA and in the modern era have solid PvZ. It isn't as flashy or at times as convincing but it is by no means bad for Rain.
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I'll take Rain's predicted win rate in PvZ for the next five years over any other player, Bisu included.
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Yesterday I watched a few games from Rain vs Mini live. I only made it to the last full two, but I got the chance to watch both fp streams wich was awesome. I can only add that, if this finals was played 100 times, maybe 1 was Mini´s. Rain is just too solid. In the end, maybe Stork *could* have been a better opponent for the finals because of mental strenght and experience, but Rain is just way above the curv anyways.
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EPT
