EPT[ASL5] Ro8 Flash vs Snow - Page 35
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darktreb
United States3019 Posts
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dukethegold
Canada5645 Posts
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v1p3r52
New Zealand182 Posts
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Greg_J
China4409 Posts
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Starlightsun
United States1405 Posts
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Disregard
China10252 Posts
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noobcake_
29 Posts
I don't agree with the map imbalance argument. For one, most people were probably expecting Flash to lose on Sparkle and on Transistor. The game on Gladiator was awesome so that definitely wasn't a factor. Regarding Third World. Snow deserves credit for making smart decisions and good micro/macro to actually get to carriers and arbs. He also kept attacking Flash's large army in middle of map which delayed Flash's push. Even Artosis was shocked that Snow had the balls to hit that army. His carriers and arbs dealt the decisive blow but you have to look at all the things that lead to the final push. Also, Flash could have attacked a minute earlier and possibly won. Or even attack despite the recall in his base. Flash has a tendency to back track. He's been doing that for years and I think that is one of his only weaknesses. Refuses to keep a small defence which would sometimes save him from back tracking. Starcraft has always been about timing and every race has sweet spots. Protoss has a good early harass. Zerg has a strong mid game (before toss and terran death balls), Terran has a strong late game. In P V T, Toss has a sweet spot with Carriers because Terran anti-air tends to come later. Thing is, Snow delayed his carriers which was really smart. Had he made them earlier, Flash would have had some extra options. Delaying the carriers stopped a potential all-in attack by Flash (base at bottom right etc). Terran needs to hurt Protoss as it is transitioning to carriers. That didn't happen because Snow delayed the carriers such that he had enough ground units to thwart an all-in. Delaying carriers also messed with Flash's unit composition. He kept making tanks which became a liability once the carriers eventually came out. | ||
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arb
Noobville17922 Posts
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orvinreyes
577 Posts
BW ded gaem my ass | ||
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byj
517 Posts
On May 06 2018 13:18 orvinreyes wrote: 35 fucking pages. Can't believe this is bigger news than GSL S1 finals BW ded gaem my ass BW ded gaem | ||
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Alejandrisha
United States6565 Posts
when flash leaves the game will take a blow but there are still good players. larva and rain are considered 'new blood' aren't they? tho i really want to see a bw player come out of no where .. any day now.. | ||
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LocoBolon
Argentina246 Posts
On May 02 2018 00:38 Essbee wrote: Yeah I guess the quality of players make sense. That's what I was thinking too, because outside of Flash, we only see sparks of Last or Mind. That's about it. Meanwhile, zerg and protoss have plenty of capable players, especially zerg. Remove flash and terran is basically dead :/ I just wish we can have great players on each race so that we can have meaningful rivalries between them again. I think when one race struggles, the quality of the games obviously diminish, so I am quite thankful we still have flash haha. Of course it's all about the skill lvl of the players man! , you use Jangbi vs Fantasy on pathfinder to rest your map imbalance case and at the time Fantasy vs protoss, actually, Fantasy vs almost anybody was practically broken, he would have raped any other human that sits in that pc and pick Protoss no metter the map would have been Pathfinder, Python or Fortress, and then Jangbi did it, not by chance or map balance, he then proven he was the best pvt, no wait, the best Protoss and mb the best Bw player of that period time. Map balance is such and easy accusation these days and It's probably due to the weiness and how far from "perfect balance" FS CB many maps are. But lets not get overdriven by it, games are usually good and mostly the better performer ends up victorious. Its not fair to name one of Janbi's feats and put map balance in such high place, we are talking about one of the highest peaks in terms of skill BW as a game reached: Jangbi, The Amlighty  . To these day why keep talking and asking about the guy in TL forums eventho he is completely vanished, not because he had great hair but because his gigantic skills have no pair, Pathfinder my ass | ||
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noobcake_
29 Posts
On May 07 2018 14:43 Alejandrisha wrote: when flash leaves the game will take a blow but there are still good players. larva and rain are considered 'new blood' aren't they? tho i really want to see a bw player come out of no where .. any day now.. Mini beat Larva convincingly 3-0 in the round of 8. Mini is the probably the best Toss player right now, even better than Snow. Only player he probably can't beat is Flash. Snow is the Terran killer. Rain and Mini should split their prize money with Snow, they both owe him big time. Mini does come across as kind of arrogant but it seems justified based on his game play. Larva is arrogant as well but I think he will tone it down after being flogged by Mini. I think Larva got even more cocky after beating Jaedong quite easily but all the games finished early and one of the games was decided with only a couple of drones left for both players. I'd like to see Larva go a long macro games in a BO5 series against other quality zerg players such as Hero, Jaedong or Action. Larva has a reputation of being a beast in macro but after his easy loss to Mini, be good to get some perspective of where he is at by playing a long Z V Z series against a quality opponent. | ||
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orvinreyes
577 Posts
On May 07 2018 16:35 LocoBolon wrote: Of course it's all about the skill lvl of the players man! , you use Jangbi vs Fantasy on pathfinder to rest your map imbalance case and at the time Fantasy vs protoss, actually, Fantasy vs almost anybody was practically broken, he would have raped any other human that sits in that pc and pick Protoss no metter the map would have been Pathfinder, Python or Fortress, and then Jangbi did it, not by chance or map balance, he then proven he was the best pvt, no wait, the best Protoss and mb the best Bw player of that period time. Map balance is such and easy accusation these days and It's probably due to the weiness and how far from "perfect balance" FS CB many maps are. But lets not get overdriven by it, games are usually good and mostly the better performer ends up victorious. Its not fair to name one of Janbi's feats and put map balance in such high place, we are talking about one of the highest peaks in terms of skill BW as a game reached: Jangbi, The Amlighty . To these day why keep talking and asking about the guy in TL forums eventho he is completely vanished, not because he had great hair but because his gigantic skills have no pair, Pathfinder my assThat jangbang love! Hahaha. Can’t forget his draw game vs Flash. One of the best PvTers indeed. | ||
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Lebesgue
4542 Posts
Snow reaver control was insane throughout the whole series. Also great recalls and drops and insane micro! Two kills on a probe, can't remember ever seeing that at such a high level! Flash showed also some brilliant play. Knowing that the shuttle is a fake in game 4? Are you kidding me!? Or that shuttle hunting in game 2! Too bad Flash is out but Snow played really brilliantly. I wish there were more standards maps but oh well, the games were still extremely entertaining even in unconventional. I love watching late game PvT and we saw that only in game 3. | ||
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mierin
United States4943 Posts
On May 16 2018 08:36 Lebesgue wrote: Late to the party, but wow! What an incredible series this was! Snow reaver control was insane throughout the whole series. Also great recalls and drops and insane micro! Two kills on a probe, can't remember ever seeing that at such a high level! Flash showed also some brilliant play. Knowing that the shuttle is a fake in game 4? Are you kidding me!? Or that shuttle hunting in game 2! Too bad Flash is out but Snow played really brilliantly. I wish there were more standards maps but oh well, the games were still extremely entertaining even in unconventional. I love watching late game PvT and we saw that only in game 3. Is it, really? :p I think the mapmakers went anti-T to the extreme this year, but if Blizzard won't change anything about the balance the mapmakers reign supreme. Nobody except the die hard Flash fans want to see him win every single time, so even though we end up with an all Protoss finals it is at least a more unique situation than Flash steamrolling his way into yet another finals victory. To the "well players should be better than him" people...yes, players should be able to be better than him. I wonder why there are so many Terran Bonjwas, and no P and 1 Z. Yep, all those T Bonjwas clearly could have had the same results as any race. Statistics be damned, more intelligent people just play T. | ||
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Lebesgue
4542 Posts
On May 16 2018 13:25 mierin wrote: Is it, really? :p I think the mapmakers went anti-T to the extreme this year, but if Blizzard won't change anything about the balance the mapmakers reign supreme. Nobody except the die hard Flash fans want to see him win every single time, so even though we end up with an all Protoss finals it is at least a more unique situation than Flash steamrolling his way into yet another finals victory. To the "well players should be better than him" people...yes, players should be able to be better than him. I wonder why there are so many Terran Bonjwas, and no P and 1 Z. Yep, all those T Bonjwas clearly could have had the same results as any race. Statistics be damned, more intelligent people just play T. I disagree regarding your balance complains. And I hope that Blizzard will not touch BW with any "balancing patches." Whatever small imbalances there are, they can be, and always has been, corrected by maps. The amp-makers went a bit too far with maps unfavored to T. That will be surely corrected in the next ASL. | ||
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Essbee
Canada2371 Posts
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nimdil
Poland3763 Posts
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Letmelose
Korea (South)3227 Posts
On May 28 2018 20:45 nimdil wrote: Will Flash win 4th ASL or is ASL like OSL and MSL - you can have only 3? :-. I think the results are incidental, and caused by entirely different sets of circumstances. There were over 30 OGN StarLeagues, and over 20 MBC Game StarLeagues over the course of Brood War history, and nobody managed to win a huge bulk of either of these tournaments due to the rapid turn-over rate of talent. It is different for the AfreecaTV StarLeague, because Flash has already won three out of the five that took place, and it is the same people competing against each other in an incestuous manner without a significant influx of new talent. It is the lack of competitive platform to showcase his dominance that is holding Flash back, rather than the cut throat nature of the available competition. | ||
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