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I don't even mind the games being so one sided, but Killer played terribly. Like, really awful.
I usually don't talk like that but it was really really bad.
Maybe I am just disappointed, I thought he was playing great in the earlier rounds and I was a fan during the kespa-era.
But 1 sunken and 1 spore in your bases isn't that much of an investment when you have that many hatcheries and you know your opponent is going for DTs.
What strategy was he even going for? Not a single try to bust with a hydra push?
Bisu played well, but his harass wasn't that APM taxing, it was still pretty early.
Killer just totally floundered.
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Well that was one sided. I wonder if nerves got to Killer because watching his stream and other games he didn't seem to play that badly. He seemed lost and not sure what to do. I expected him to lose anyway as he hasn't been back that long, but I hope next season he does well!
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what I want to know is if it was more or less one-sided than a moebius strip. This is the sort of question casters should answer!
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Baa?21248 Posts
well that was underwhelming
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Even in a stomp like this, Bisu's a lot of fun to watch. Starting with his scouting probe, he's attacking Zerg everywhere simultaneously all game.
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On October 23 2017 01:25 mastakilla[Xp] wrote:Show nested quote +On October 22 2017 21:17 FirstProbe wrote:On October 22 2017 20:50 mcmascote wrote:On October 22 2017 19:35 Holgerius wrote:
So frustrating seeing that same shuttle drop DTs 10 times in Killers main. You'd think that after all these years Killer would've learned that this game has a unit called scourge...
Well played by Bisu nonetheless. He was using it in conjunction with his sairs every time.And killer was only on two gasses. For the amount of damage he took, he was better off playing like a D rank noob and putting a sunken and spore in his base. It hurt to see him repeatedly take damage that way; against a player whose multitasking is amongst the best. Disappointing series, was hoping for more from Killer... err Baxter (the name change makes sense now). I was thinking that too. But I rewatched the games on JDs youtube chanel. And JD said that Killer already was on low eco and it was better to protect his bases with units. There are progamers and he said there is a reason why they do it that way.
Yeah, I get that, and its not the right play in most circumstances. I'm just commenting on the manner in which he ended up being able to execute that game plan... which was seemingly poorly and worse than if he had just gone static D. I suspect if we see Larva vs. Bisu it'll be that sort of game.
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A link to "his micro is so good" moment with zealot: youtu.be.
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10387 Posts
On October 23 2017 03:44 Barneyk wrote:
But 1 sunken and 1 spore in your bases isn't that much of an investment when you have that many hatcheries and you know your opponent is going for DTs.
I'm tired of this type of criticism.
One sunken is 175 mineral (75+50+drone), not including lost mining time. You're suggesting a cost of 400+ minerals per base, which could easily be another control group of hydras, several groups of zerglings, or much faster tech. At a lower level, you might be able to shrug off the massive deficit through superior play. But against the greatest PvZ player in the world? Youre basically giving up the game. You'll deflect the harass, but then just get crushed either in an army engagement or by a timing attack.
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Really one-sided series, expected Killer to put up more of a fight. Game 1 no upgrades(wtf?) and 4 unscouted zealots killing 4th when he had map control. Game 2 was actually pretty even and then Bisu just attacked and demolished him. Game 3 he even scouts templar timing with lings and still gets caught with his pants down (although that 4 sair attack is kinda risky and unusual, but still)
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Baxter played in place of Killer this series.
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Baxter just got dominated completely, holy hell Bisu is looking scary. I just love how he can play against Zergs.
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On October 23 2017 06:40 ArvickHero wrote:Show nested quote +On October 23 2017 03:44 Barneyk wrote:
But 1 sunken and 1 spore in your bases isn't that much of an investment when you have that many hatcheries and you know your opponent is going for DTs. I'm tired of this type of criticism. One sunken is 175 mineral (75+50+drone), not including lost mining time. You're suggesting a cost of 400+ minerals per base, which could easily be another control group of hydras, several groups of zerglings, or much faster tech. At a lower level, you might be able to shrug off the massive deficit through superior play. But against the greatest PvZ player in the world? Youre basically giving up the game. You'll deflect the harass, but then just get crushed either in an army engagement or by a timing attack.
So you're saying losing 10+ drones is better than building a sunken and spore? Bisu went sair DT for THREE games straight, if you know its coming it's way better to spend 400+ minerals rather than potentially lose your drones & tech. Not to mention you'll have to bring hydras and overlords back, which means more apm devoted to defending which means your other bases get attacked without you noticing. Also whats is another control group of hydras going to do when you have to bring your fighting hydras back to defend, which Killer did multiple times.
If you are better than your opponent I can understand why you would not want to invest in static defense, but against Bisu the best PvZer who did the same build 3 times in a row is just inexcusable.
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My memory is getting hazy, but has Bisu 3-0'd sAviOr in essentially the same way a decade ago?
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51703 Posts
On October 23 2017 11:13 sM.Zik wrote:
My memory is getting hazy, but has Bisu 3-0'd sAviOr in essentially the same way a decade ago?
yeah it was crazy to see a resurgence in corsair/dt play when we've been seeing nothing but zealot timings for a long ass time
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TLADT24920 Posts
On October 23 2017 11:13 sM.Zik wrote:
My memory is getting hazy, but has Bisu 3-0'd sAviOr in essentially the same way a decade ago?
yep, just as dominant and the same strat too for a 3-0 in March 07.
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On October 23 2017 10:01 Dante08 wrote:Show nested quote +On October 23 2017 06:40 ArvickHero wrote:On October 23 2017 03:44 Barneyk wrote:
But 1 sunken and 1 spore in your bases isn't that much of an investment when you have that many hatcheries and you know your opponent is going for DTs. I'm tired of this type of criticism. One sunken is 175 mineral (75+50+drone), not including lost mining time. You're suggesting a cost of 400+ minerals per base, which could easily be another control group of hydras, several groups of zerglings, or much faster tech. At a lower level, you might be able to shrug off the massive deficit through superior play. But against the greatest PvZ player in the world? Youre basically giving up the game. You'll deflect the harass, but then just get crushed either in an army engagement or by a timing attack. So you're saying losing 10+ drones is better than building a sunken and spore? Bisu went sair DT for THREE games straight, if you know its coming it's way better to spend 400+ minerals rather than potentially lose your drones & tech. Not to mention you'll have to bring hydras and overlords back, which means more apm devoted to defending which means your other bases get attacked without you noticing. Also whats is another control group of hydras going to do when you have to bring your fighting hydras back to defend, which Killer did multiple times. If you are better than your opponent I can understand why you would not want to invest in static defense, but against Bisu the best PvZer who did the same build 3 times in a row is just inexcusable.
Killer just didn't have a chance either way. The thing is, Killer should have defended his bases with groups of hydras + overlords. Either of those was often not in place. When he had 2-3 overlords and a group of hydras, Bisu did zero damage. In the end it wouldn't have mattered because Bisu's macro was way stronger. The fact that Killer couldn't defend the harass just made it look more one-sided. I think if he had built spores and sunkens it would have looked similarly one-sided though because Bisu army advantage would have been even bigger.
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LOL
Watched the VODs this just now... wow... BvZ.
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I am watching Match 2 now. Just finish watching.
That 1 dark Templar destroy the whole Lurker HIgh ground formation ~.~ so painful huhu
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Norway28911 Posts
On October 23 2017 10:01 Dante08 wrote:Show nested quote +On October 23 2017 06:40 ArvickHero wrote:On October 23 2017 03:44 Barneyk wrote:
But 1 sunken and 1 spore in your bases isn't that much of an investment when you have that many hatcheries and you know your opponent is going for DTs. I'm tired of this type of criticism. One sunken is 175 mineral (75+50+drone), not including lost mining time. You're suggesting a cost of 400+ minerals per base, which could easily be another control group of hydras, several groups of zerglings, or much faster tech. At a lower level, you might be able to shrug off the massive deficit through superior play. But against the greatest PvZ player in the world? Youre basically giving up the game. You'll deflect the harass, but then just get crushed either in an army engagement or by a timing attack. So you're saying losing 10+ drones is better than building a sunken and spore? Bisu went sair DT for THREE games straight, if you know its coming it's way better to spend 400+ minerals rather than potentially lose your drones & tech. Not to mention you'll have to bring hydras and overlords back, which means more apm devoted to defending which means your other bases get attacked without you noticing. Also whats is another control group of hydras going to do when you have to bring your fighting hydras back to defend, which Killer did multiple times. If you are better than your opponent I can understand why you would not want to invest in static defense, but against Bisu the best PvZer who did the same build 3 times in a row is just inexcusable.
There's an inbetween. One sunken and spore in each base would be a too significant investment, one that would make him fall too far behind. However, completely neglecting it did cost him any chance at the game. Like in the third game, he should have had one spore in the second base (the one where overlords can't travel too all that fast). Then he only needs to have enough hydras in that base to beat any impending dts, and he could have more overlords in his natural protected by a bigger swarm of hydra. So one spore+one sunken per base, that is too much. However, say, one spore and one additional hydra in his second natural, that actually would have stopped the harassment and made him enter the mid-game on pretty equal footing.
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EPT
