• Log InLog In
  • Register
Liquid`
Team Liquid Liquipedia
EST 03:54
CET 09:54
KST 17:54
  • Home
  • Forum
  • Calendar
  • Streams
  • Liquipedia
  • Features
  • Store
  • EPT
  • TL+
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Smash
  • Heroes
  • Counter-Strike
  • Overwatch
  • Liquibet
  • Fantasy StarCraft
  • TLPD
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Blogs
Forum Sidebar
Events/Features
News
Featured News
ByuL: The Forgotten Master of ZvT24Behind the Blue - Team Liquid History Book16Clem wins HomeStory Cup 289HomeStory Cup 28 - Info & Preview13Rongyi Cup S3 - Preview & Info8
Community News
Weekly Cups (Feb 9-15): herO doubles up2ACS replaced by "ASL Season Open" - Starts 21/0226LiuLi Cup: 2025 Grand Finals (Feb 10-16)46Weekly Cups (Feb 2-8): Classic, Solar, MaxPax win2Nexon's StarCraft game could be FPS, led by UMS maker16
StarCraft 2
General
Liquipedia WCS Portal Launched ByuL: The Forgotten Master of ZvT Kaelaris on the futue of SC2 and much more... How do you think the 5.0.15 balance patch (Oct 2025) for StarCraft II has affected the game? Nexon's StarCraft game could be FPS, led by UMS maker
Tourneys
PIG STY FESTIVAL 7.0! (19 Feb - 1 Mar) How do the "codes" work in GSL? Sparkling Tuna Cup - Weekly Open Tournament LiuLi Cup: 2025 Grand Finals (Feb 10-16) Master Swan Open (Global Bronze-Master 2)
Strategy
Custom Maps
Map Editor closed ? [A] Starcraft Sound Mod
External Content
Mutation # 513 Attrition Warfare The PondCast: SC2 News & Results Mutation # 512 Overclocked Mutation # 511 Temple of Rebirth
Brood War
General
A new season just kicks off CasterMuse Youtube TvZ is the most complete match up BGH Auto Balance -> http://bghmmr.eu/ ACS replaced by "ASL Season Open" - Starts 21/02
Tourneys
[Megathread] Daily Proleagues Escore Tournament StarCraft Season 1 Small VOD Thread 2.0 KCM Race Survival 2026 Season 1
Strategy
Simple Questions, Simple Answers Fighting Spirit mining rates Zealot bombing is no longer popular? Current Meta
Other Games
General Games
ZeroSpace Megathread Nintendo Switch Thread Path of Exile Diablo 2 thread Battle Aces/David Kim RTS Megathread
Dota 2
Official 'what is Dota anymore' discussion
League of Legends
Heroes of the Storm
Simple Questions, Simple Answers Heroes of the Storm 2.0
Hearthstone
Deck construction bug Heroes of StarCraft mini-set
TL Mafia
Vanilla Mini Mafia TL Mafia Community Thread Mafia Game Mode Feedback/Ideas
Community
General
US Politics Mega-thread Canadian Politics Mega-thread Russo-Ukrainian War Thread Ask and answer stupid questions here! Things Aren’t Peaceful in Palestine
Fan Clubs
The IdrA Fan Club The herO Fan Club!
Media & Entertainment
[Req][Books] Good Fantasy/SciFi books [Manga] One Piece Anime Discussion Thread
Sports
2024 - 2026 Football Thread Formula 1 Discussion TL MMA Pick'em Pool 2013
World Cup 2022
Tech Support
TL Community
The Automated Ban List
Blogs
Inside the Communication of …
TrAiDoS
My 2025 Magic: The Gathering…
DARKING
Life Update and thoughts.
FuDDx
How do archons sleep?
8882
Customize Sidebar...

Website Feedback

Closed Threads



Active: 2038 users

[ASL4] Ro8 Bisu vs Killer - Page 10

Forum Index > Brood War Tournaments
Post a Reply
Prev 1 8 9 10 All
PVJ
Profile Blog Joined July 2012
Hungary5221 Posts
October 23 2017 16:42 GMT
#181
Man, was this beautiful.
The heart's eternal vow
Golgotha
Profile Blog Joined January 2011
Korea (South)8418 Posts
October 24 2017 04:11 GMT
#182
haha I told you guys that baxter was fucked. I looked at the video length of the youtube video and saw that it was an hour. I already knew it was 3-0. Bisu vs. Flash. Thank God!!!!!!!!!!!

Bisu looks so damn scary right now.
JBWKZ
Profile Joined May 2010
Vietnam8 Posts
October 24 2017 16:02 GMT
#183
hold it down for the toss baby.
My life for Aiur!~
Heartland
Profile Blog Joined May 2012
Sweden24593 Posts
October 24 2017 18:33 GMT
#184
On October 24 2017 13:11 Golgotha wrote:
haha I told you guys that baxter was fucked. I looked at the video length of the youtube video and saw that it was an hour. I already knew it was 3-0. Bisu vs. Flash. Thank God!!!!!!!!!!!

Bisu looks so damn scary right now.


Dude, you never check the video length, it's just a big fucking spoiler!
dRaW
Profile Blog Joined January 2010
Canada5744 Posts
October 24 2017 19:26 GMT
#185
Is there till the recommended vod thread somewhere? I want to catch the best games of ASL4.
I don't need luck, luck is for noobs, good luck to you though
VioleTAK
Profile Joined July 2006
4339 Posts
October 25 2017 03:13 GMT
#186
On October 25 2017 04:26 dRaW wrote:
Is there till the recommended vod thread somewhere? I want to catch the best games of ASL4.

If you want to watch only the best games, just wait a little longer and you'll be able to watch Bisu take down Flash in a glorious 3-2 series, followed by an awesome 3-1 on Larva, that won't hold a candle to the semi-finals that finally took down God, but a good send-off of Bisu to the army.
Every fan of Starcraft is a fan of Lim Yo Hwan by association
VioleTAK
Profile Joined July 2006
4339 Posts
Last Edited: 2017-10-25 14:00:01
October 25 2017 13:32 GMT
#187
I highly recommend watching this English subtitled review of the games, specifically to watch the interview at the end, which shows you are horribly wrong the translation during the live English stream is, they just changed everything...
Every fan of Starcraft is a fan of Lim Yo Hwan by association
NonY
Profile Blog Joined June 2007
8751 Posts
Last Edited: 2017-10-25 17:47:44
October 25 2017 17:45 GMT
#188
On October 23 2017 21:59 Liquid`Drone wrote:
Show nested quote +
On October 23 2017 10:01 Dante08 wrote:
On October 23 2017 06:40 ArvickHero wrote:
On October 23 2017 03:44 Barneyk wrote:
But 1 sunken and 1 spore in your bases isn't that much of an investment when you have that many hatcheries and you know your opponent is going for DTs.

I'm tired of this type of criticism.

One sunken is 175 mineral (75+50+drone), not including lost mining time. You're suggesting a cost of 400+ minerals per base, which could easily be another control group of hydras, several groups of zerglings, or much faster tech. At a lower level, you might be able to shrug off the massive deficit through superior play. But against the greatest PvZ player in the world? Youre basically giving up the game. You'll deflect the harass, but then just get crushed either in an army engagement or by a timing attack.


So you're saying losing 10+ drones is better than building a sunken and spore? Bisu went sair DT for THREE games straight, if you know its coming it's way better to spend 400+ minerals rather than potentially lose your drones & tech. Not to mention you'll have to bring hydras and overlords back, which means more apm devoted to defending which means your other bases get attacked without you noticing. Also whats is another control group of hydras going to do when you have to bring your fighting hydras back to defend, which Killer did multiple times.

If you are better than your opponent I can understand why you would not want to invest in static defense, but against Bisu the best PvZer who did the same build 3 times in a row is just inexcusable.


There's an inbetween. One sunken and spore in each base would be a too significant investment, one that would make him fall too far behind. However, completely neglecting it did cost him any chance at the game. Like in the third game, he should have had one spore in the second base (the one where overlords can't travel too all that fast). Then he only needs to have enough hydras in that base to beat any impending dts, and he could have more overlords in his natural protected by a bigger swarm of hydra. So one spore+one sunken per base, that is too much. However, say, one spore and one additional hydra in his second natural, that actually would have stopped the harassment and made him enter the mid-game on pretty equal footing.

In addition to this, we have to keep in mind that having a predictable conservative response to a particular threat is not a viable way to win tournaments. That simplifies the meta game for your opponent far too much. If Bisu is prepared to go Sair/DT every game and in game 3 he encounters this overreaction, then in game 4 he can present the same threat but not actually commit to it as much (which is not a very tricky adjustment to make for him). So in the end, while you may want to mix in a really conservative play if you are very sure your opponent will do an aggressive play, you still have to be unpredictable.

If you don't have a build prepared, then your attempt will probably not be as optimal as you hoped, and you're better off playing the way you practiced. It is very difficult to improvise in the middle of a series at this level of play. Of course he encountered corsair/DT in practice and I'm sure he won many games against it, but in this series he fell short. It is reasonable to assume he didn't practice static defense builds at all. Whereas the protoss build and how much commitment there is to aggression is much more fluid, more easily adjusted game-to-game and even moment-to-moment.
"Fucking up is part of it. If you can't fail, you have to always win. And I don't think you can always win." Elliott Smith ---------- Yet no sudden rage darkened his face, and his eyes were calm as they studied her. Then he smiled. 'Witness.'
Prev 1 8 9 10 All
Please log in or register to reply.
Live Events Refresh
Next event in 6m
[ Submit Event ]
Live Streams
Refresh
StarCraft 2
SortOf 136
PiGStarcraft76
Rex 1
StarCraft: Brood War
Flash 1467
Jaedong 286
Killer 230
actioN 230
Hyuk 160
Soma 112
Leta 106
Sharp 58
Dewaltoss 54
Nal_rA 49
[ Show more ]
Mong 48
BeSt 44
scan(afreeca) 42
Aegong 38
ToSsGirL 34
yabsab 32
910 27
NaDa 24
sSak 23
GoRush 22
zelot 17
hero 14
Bale 11
ZerO 6
Terrorterran 2
Dota 2
XaKoH 537
NeuroSwarm154
League of Legends
JimRising 478
Counter-Strike
olofmeister1760
Stewie2K833
m0e_tv298
kRYSTAL_19
Other Games
summit1g3467
C9.Mang0453
WinterStarcraft364
Happy246
Hui .89
crisheroes64
Trikslyr28
ZerO(Twitch)1
Organizations
Counter-Strike
PGL38575
Other Games
gamesdonequick812
StarCraft 2
Blizzard YouTube
StarCraft: Brood War
BSLTrovo
sctven
[ Show 15 non-featured ]
StarCraft 2
• StrangeGG 48
• LUISG 19
• AfreecaTV YouTube
• intothetv
• Kozan
• IndyKCrew
• LaughNgamezSOOP
• Migwel
• sooper7s
StarCraft: Brood War
• BSLYoutube
• STPLYoutube
• ZZZeroYoutube
League of Legends
• Lourlo1875
• Jankos708
• Stunt495
Upcoming Events
PiG Sty Festival
6m
Clem vs Percival
Zoun vs Solar
PiGStarcraft76
Escore
1h 6m
Epic.LAN
3h 6m
Replay Cast
15h 6m
PiG Sty Festival
1d
herO vs NightMare
Reynor vs Cure
CranKy Ducklings
1d 1h
Epic.LAN
1d 3h
Replay Cast
1d 15h
PiG Sty Festival
2 days
Serral vs YoungYakov
ByuN vs ShoWTimE
Sparkling Tuna Cup
2 days
[ Show More ]
Replay Cast
2 days
Replay Cast
3 days
Wardi Open
3 days
Monday Night Weeklies
3 days
Replay Cast
3 days
WardiTV Winter Champion…
4 days
Replay Cast
5 days
WardiTV Winter Champion…
5 days
The PondCast
6 days
Replay Cast
6 days
Liquipedia Results

Completed

Proleague 2026-02-19
LiuLi Cup: 2025 Grand Finals
Underdog Cup #3

Ongoing

KCM Race Survival 2026 Season 1
Escore Tournament S1: King of Kings
WardiTV Winter 2026
PiG Sty Festival 7.0
Nations Cup 2026
PGL Cluj-Napoca 2026
IEM Kraków 2026
BLAST Bounty Winter 2026
BLAST Bounty Winter Qual
eXTREMESLAND 2025
SL Budapest Major 2025

Upcoming

[S:21] ASL SEASON OPEN 1st Round
[S:21] ASL SEASON OPEN 1st Round Qualifier
Acropolis #4 - TS5
Jeongseon Sooper Cup
Spring Cup 2026: China & Korea Invitational
[S:21] ASL SEASON OPEN 2nd Round
[S:21] ASL SEASON OPEN 2nd Round Qualifier
HSC XXIX
uThermal 2v2 2026 Main Event
Bellum Gens Elite Stara Zagora 2026
RSL Revival: Season 4
BLAST Rivals Spring 2026
CCT Season 3 Global Finals
FISSURE Playground #3
IEM Rio 2026
PGL Bucharest 2026
Stake Ranked Episode 1
BLAST Open Spring 2026
ESL Pro League Season 23
ESL Pro League Season 23
TLPD

1. ByuN
2. TY
3. Dark
4. Solar
5. Stats
6. Nerchio
7. sOs
8. soO
9. INnoVation
10. Elazer
1. Rain
2. Flash
3. EffOrt
4. Last
5. Bisu
6. Soulkey
7. Mini
8. Sharp
Sidebar Settings...

Advertising | Privacy Policy | Terms Of Use | Contact Us

Original banner artwork: Jim Warren
The contents of this webpage are copyright © 2026 TLnet. All Rights Reserved.