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On May 29 2017 01:15 Headshot wrote:
That scan in game 5. What the hell? :O
The commentators missed it, but I heard a scan and I am 90% positive that first scan scouted the greater spire. Then he scanned the area where the guardians were and saw them.
Very good series, I enjoyed it a lot. Game 5 was intense all throughout and I was surprised Soulkey stayed alive as lon gas he did. He played very well on Andromeda, the 4 pool was hilariously awesome and in general a good series I would say.
I think Flash wins this tournament now though, I want Shine to win so badly but I don't think he can do it.
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On May 29 2017 03:29 letian wrote:
No, judging the games quality only by the score is obviously wrong and this is what you trying to imply.
If you liked the games, I can only think that you either didn't watch enough truly good ZvT or new to BW in general. You need to watch better ZvT games which are plenty around. Soulkey can play much better against Flash himself and we've already seen it. Unfortunately, he could not pull anything interesting in terms or strategy and execution today.
I didn't say a word about if I liked the games or not or about the quality of the games.
All I said was that it wasn't a walk in the park for Flash, Soulkey was close to winning.
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On May 29 2017 01:15 Headshot wrote:
That scan in game 5. What the hell? :O
I think it was pretty obvious for Flash with the state of the game and that base's cliff was the obvious position to morph the guardians. Soulkey just made the error and didn't morph them on the cliff...... To be honest, considering he lost like 4 guardians there, SK could have actually won the game if he didn't lose those. That's actually quite surprising, considering how far behind he was economy-wise.
On May 29 2017 02:10 letian wrote:
I barely managed to make myself watch the series to the end. Soulkey was utterly helpless and clueless, so much for preparation talks. On the other hand, when you play against Flash anyone can break. Still, I was expecting much better performance from Soulkey. Gosh, why do you even consider going mutas when you can't do anything with them and your micro is not that great either. Muta must do damage or you're fucked especially when you play against someone like Flash. This is just relying on luck and chance not strategy or inventive thinking.
4-10 sunkens to delay mm army only to get the defilers and get irradiated to death. That's a strategy? We've already been through this when JD attempted something similar only he had a pretty nice plan and it almost worked while here it was more like a weaker player trying his best to stay alive.
Even the only game Soulkey won was a pain to watch with that science vessels control group floating around until the very end. Uninspiring micro and poor strategies, I will not recommend the games. This match was a walk in the park for Flash.
Funny to acknowledge that the only zerg who actually uses his brains is Shine these days. At least I hope he makes Flash sweat his pants a little.
I honestly doubt it. Shine may play smarter (a lot smarter, surprisingly enough) but his mechanics are a lot worse so he won't stand a chance against Flash. Soulkey on the otherside had an actual chance imho but, as you said, his strategies were absolute garbage, except for the one on Andromeda. That game he played well and Flash didn't go for dropships fast enough, so Soulkey could run away with his eco.
Game 3 hurt me so much. That was so frustrating to watch, especially as a zerg player. Soulkey almost had that game in the bag. He was on 4 gas pretty much uncontested and what does he do? Skip lurkers. On Outsider. For real? All he had to do was defend the drops with lurkers and swarm and then start swarming Flash with ultra, ling, defiler, like in game 4. But no, he had to rush to ultras. You can do that if you are very far ahead and are sure the terran doesn't go for mass drops. If you aren't sure, don't do it. The reason the game actually looked so lop-sided in the end was because the ultras were on the way. Prolly around 12 or so. Flash hit the timing before they popped when Soulkey had nothing but a bunch of lings and defilers.
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omg that was D- scourge micro in game 3,when you bassically have free dropships. Soulkey was in such a great position in that game. The first moment where scourges was going towards the non dmatrixed dropship, Soulkey did the anti micro, by pulling back his scourges wtf? after that he just did more of the same...
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Bisutopia19152 Posts
Imo game 5 was super anticlimactic when SK went for greater spire. It was a pretty easy read for Flash who knew after seeing no third that it was hive tech and he better scan to see if it's offensive guardians or defensive dark swarm. I think dark swarm into a close third would have been best. Similar to how Zero plays it out on FS in 2014.
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On May 28 2017 23:07 goody153 wrote:Show nested quote +On May 28 2017 23:04 lolfail9001 wrote:On May 28 2017 22:58 goody153 wrote:
recommended games guys ? Game 2 and game 3 imho (spoiler: game 2 is only worth it for facecam so if you find a gif, game 3 only). Maybe game 4 if seeing terran get btfod out of the game with 20 ultras is your thing. so game 3 and game 4 thanks
Game 5 was also pretty good.
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I don't know why people are complaining so much about the series. It was pretty good.
And mistakes are an integral part of broodwar. It was always like that. You can't do everything right and progamers always make choices what to focus on. That is also what differentiated players. Some put more focus on micro, some more on macro, some on multi-tasking etc. If you watch old series from starleagues you will also see players making tons of mistakes. While mechanically players do seem a bit worse than during KeSPA times Soulkey and Flash did not play bad in this series.
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Can someone teanslate the post interview authentically? Really low quality of the live translations you can't hear them + they are awfully done.
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Holy fuck that was a great series. I haven't read everyone else's reactions but it seems that people are down on the games. I have no idea why. A lot of people seem to dislike any games that feature mistakes. Especially that last game, it was on a fucking knife's edge for the entire game, it was incredible to watch. Man. So suspenseful. Heart rate through the roof.
The only game that was sort of disappointing was game 2 with the 4 pool, but even that, I was super happy to see a Zerg using that in a Bo5.
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On May 29 2017 04:56 Lebesgue wrote:
I don't know why people are complaining so much about the series. It was pretty good.
And mistakes are an integral part of broodwar. It was always like that. You can't do everything right and progamers always make choices what to focus on. That is also what differentiated players. Some put more focus on micro, some more on macro, some on multi-tasking etc. If you watch old series from starleagues you will also see players making tons of mistakes. While mechanically players do seem a bit worse than during KeSPA times Soulkey and Flash did not play bad in this series.
Agree so much with this post.
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On May 28 2017 22:11 Foxxan wrote:yeah but no, alot of THOSE APM IS MINDLESS CLICKING, i expected you to atleast LOOK AT EAPM IN THIS MATTER
professional's don't mindlessly click except in the earlier stages of the game to keep their fingers warmed up. If you spam click to move units it actually improves the pathing ai, its on purpose.
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The irridiates on the Guardian Caccoons had me hyped AF. Flash had dual wraith popping out the starports the second he had the intel.
Soulkey was devestated, it is hard to keep tech under wraps from Terran Scans
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On May 29 2017 04:56 Lebesgue wrote:
I don't know why people are complaining so much about the series. It was pretty good.
And mistakes are an integral part of broodwar. It was always like that. You can't do everything right and progamers always make choices what to focus on. That is also what differentiated players. Some put more focus on micro, some more on macro, some on multi-tasking etc. If you watch old series from starleagues you will also see players making tons of mistakes. While mechanically players do seem a bit worse than during KeSPA times Soulkey and Flash did not play bad in this series.
Seriously, this series went down to the wire. Incredible. I think people are just salty that Soulkey could've beaten Flash, but lost because of a simple error.
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On May 29 2017 05:48 Trillwill wrote:Show nested quote +On May 29 2017 04:56 Lebesgue wrote:
I don't know why people are complaining so much about the series. It was pretty good.
And mistakes are an integral part of broodwar. It was always like that. You can't do everything right and progamers always make choices what to focus on. That is also what differentiated players. Some put more focus on micro, some more on macro, some on multi-tasking etc. If you watch old series from starleagues you will also see players making tons of mistakes. While mechanically players do seem a bit worse than during KeSPA times Soulkey and Flash did not play bad in this series. Seriously, this series went down to the wire. Incredible. I think people are just salty that Soulkey could've beaten Flash, but lost because of a simple error.
Yeah, that's pretty much my take on it. Although the series as a whole wasn't really that good in terms of quality. Game 1 was a walkover. Game 2 BO win. Game 3 was just frustrating to watch. Game 4 was kind of good. Game 5 was kind of frustrating to watch as well.
In terms of pure mechanical skill, Soulkey came closer to beat Flash than JD last season imho.
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I dunno it seems like every time I look at the comments after one of these series people are complaining about the game quality. Brood War is hard! I thought this was an awesome series. It went down to the wire and game 5 was a real nail biter. Flash's micro with the drop ships was excellent in the Outsider game. One of the things that makes Flash so good is how often he prioritizes using his APM on the most important parts of the battlefield.
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On May 29 2017 03:29 letian wrote:Show nested quote +On May 29 2017 02:45 Barneyk wrote:On May 29 2017 02:40 letian wrote:
Lucky 4 pool and really weird game on Andromeda where Soulkey used islands to survive? If Flash went mech, it would be a completely different game. For some strange reason he was sitting on pure mm whole time. The map is huge and he simply could not do the same he did on Outsider without being continuously harassed given their initial positioning. And even in that game Soulkey did not micro scourge at all to keep science vessels count low. Go, rewatch Effort vs Flash, JD vs Flash games to understand how a zerg should play in order to win against him and make a ZvT series great not mediocre as it was today. Call it what you want, but it wasn't a walk in the park. Soulkey was close to winning a few times. And yes, even though he made a lot of basic mistakes he still won the game. No, judging the games quality only by the score is obviously wrong and this is what you trying to imply. If you liked the games, I can only think that you either didn't watch enough truly good ZvT or new to BW in general. You need to watch better ZvT games which are plenty around. Soulkey can play much better against Flash himself and we've already seen it. Unfortunately, he could not pull anything interesting in terms or strategy and execution today.
Yet you completely ignore the part where soulkey denied flash 4th base in game 4. This is a massively big thing if you go bio all game. You should know this yet you seem to not?
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Yeah game 4 was amazing from Soulkey, standard build for the map but so many little things he added 
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Wow mind games throughout the series. I really enjoyed the late-game TvZ macro-heavy game 4. Really fun to watch both sides.
Overall, I'm happy to see more TvZ in the finals.
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On May 29 2017 03:56 blade55555 wrote:The commentators missed it, but I heard a scan and I am 90% positive that first scan scouted the greater spire. Then he scanned the area where the guardians were and saw them. Very good series, I enjoyed it a lot. Game 5 was intense all throughout and I was surprised Soulkey stayed alive as lon gas he did. He played very well on Andromeda, the 4 pool was hilariously awesome and in general a good series I would say. I think Flash wins this tournament now though, I want Shine to win so badly but I don't think he can do it.
Yes, he scanned the creep with the greater spire morphing, and with that information the guardians later.
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Game 2 was a nice treat to an incredibly fought series
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EPT
