On May 29 2017 15:01 juvenal wrote: letian is wrong, everybody else is right.
On May 29 2017 02:40 letian wrote: For some strange reason he was sitting on pure mm whole time.
I guess you missed the teamleague game where SoulKey demolished Flash's mech practically with ease. I feel like most your statements are baseless. Like, walk in the park series for Flash - what series did you watch?
Don't nitpick my text. That was more an emotional evaluation. Soulkey crumbled under pressure and played worse that he usually does, didn't have any clever builds and on top poor execution of the "prepared" ones. So, if you like this kind of play you either a Flash fan and attempt to give him some credit or have a strange taste in ZvT games.
mate most of the people enjoyed the series and deem it worthy of its hype. So it's either all of us have strange taste in ZvT or you do, what do you reckon is more plausible.
"The majority is right". Good for me I guess. I prefer good mechanics and interesting builds in ZvT, none of those were demonstrated (except when Soulkey defended push on Outsider and then still lost drones). Flash played on point on the other hand, that's the only thing I enjoyed I think.
When it comes to the definition of strange, the majority really is write. If the majority of people like these types of ZvT's you can't really say their taste is strange can you? After all the definition is unusual/rarely seen.
What I can't figure out from your posts is that you have basically said FlaSh played quality starcraft, and constantly stated how pitiful Soulkey's showing was. This contrasts to the results of the games, where FlaSh handily beat SK in two, SK handily beat Flash in two, and the deciding game was an exceedingly close nailbiter that could have just as easily gone in SK's favor with a marginally later scan, better morphing spot, etc.
It just doesn't really jive that the greatest BW player of all time, playing a matchup known to be challenging for zerg, could play very solid starcraft, and come perilously close to losing against a zerg playing terribly.
It was not a nail biter and Flash base was hardly in danger in all 5 games (except 4pool) as I already stated. Tell me how many Flash scvs were killed in that series? You are trying too hard.
A good ZvT is not the one which people call is good but the one where no player makes neither big strategic nor micro mistakes. When they come prepared in top form. Unfortunately this is hardly the case for most games today and yet flying with your muta stack in the middle of the map into mm group, missing dropships, not killing science vessels, going full sunkenD mode and doing nothing with your muta except flying all over the map is a bad zerg play there is no other definition for that.
I am not a fan of defensive zerg strategies because they are situational and always look dumb when fail. Zerg should be aggressive and cunning, that's why I enjoy JD, Effort and Shine style more and I feel that this style is better against such players as Flash.
Letian at this point i dont really know what are u trying to explain anymore,for more than 20 years zerg ,in any form of skill zerg flight right into marines army.there re so many task to do,it is one of the most common mistakes u can find.and tbh you and the rest qhould stop praising the old games and actually watch it again,you guys are acting like grandmas.the skill is much higher now,u can see it daily on streams.i will not debate offline tourneys since not only skill matters.
On May 29 2017 02:10 letian wrote: This match was a walk in the park for Flash.
uuuhhhh, it was a 3-2 victory with a couple of clutch moments where Flash could've lost.
Flash did feel more dominant but calling it a walk in the park is just ridiculous.
Lucky 4 pool and really weird game on Andromeda where Soulkey used islands to survive? If Flash went mech, it would be a completely different game. For some strange reason he was sitting on pure mm whole time. The map is huge and he simply could not do the same he did on Outsider without being continuously harassed given their initial positioning. And even in that game Soulkey did not micro scourge at all to keep science vessels count low. Go, rewatch Effort vs Flash, JD vs Flash games to understand how a zerg should play in order to win against him and make a ZvT series great not mediocre as it was today.
God ur bad. In game 4 flash would have added tanks and taken the middle but he was denied a 4th base (remember the 12 lings sacking the half constructed CC). He obviously didn't have the economy to add a bunch of factories. SK dominated game 4.
Game 3 SK was pretty far ahead at one point and had 4 gases going while flash was on 2 bases. The main reason he lost is because when flash smashed his front he had to sacrifice his mutas for a hold. This lead to 2 things. 1 he had to re sunk his natural so he couldn't add them instead to his double gas base. Most importantly though he didn't have the mutas to defend the drops. If he has 12 mutas he can shut down those drops much easier knocking the d matrix off the dropships so scourge can do their things and also straight up killing marines and firebats as they come out. If SK holds that big bust a little more cleanly it is an ez game and he wins the series.
Game 5 if flash goes 14CC or some greedy build he straight up loses. SK even got far enough back into that game after being massively behind that he could have gone into a standard game and possibly won. Unfortunately he went all in on guardians having never seen the double port and possibly thinking he was further behind than he was thus the all in.
The series was actually very close and could have gone either way. Seems as though you base all of your thoughts on game 1
Soulkey is macro god. Remember watching him first time in ProLeague long time ago vs Sea. Hopefully he will be able to improve more to make terrans mortal.
On May 30 2017 18:05 [sc1f]eonzerg wrote: Letian at this point i dont really know what are u trying to explain anymore,for more than 20 years zerg ,in any form of skill zerg flight right into marines army.there re so many task to do,it is one of the most common mistakes u can find.and tbh you and the rest qhould stop praising the old games and actually watch it again,you guys are acting like grandmas.the skill is much higher now,u can see it daily on streams.i will not debate offline tourneys since not only skill matters.
Foreigner skill might be higher, korean skill is certainly not. Although koreans are getting better again. I would argue that the skill level at the top was quite a bit lower 2 years ago than it is now.
In game 4 flash would have added tanks and taken the middle but he was denied a 4th base (remember the 12 lings sacking the half constructed CC). He obviously didn't have the economy to add a bunch of factories. SK dominated game 4.
Game 3 SK was pretty far ahead at one point and had 4 gases going while flash was on 2 bases. The main reason he lost is because when flash smashed his front he had to sacrifice his mutas for a hold. This lead to 2 things. 1 he had to re sunk his natural so he couldn't add them instead to his double gas base. Most importantly though he didn't have the mutas to defend the drops. If he has 12 mutas he can shut down those drops much easier knocking the d matrix off the dropships so scourge can do their things and also straight up killing marines and firebats as they come out. If SK holds that big bust a little more cleanly it is an ez game and he wins the series.
Game 5 if flash goes 14CC or some greedy build he straight up loses. SK even got far enough back into that game after being massively behind that he could have gone into a standard game and possibly won. Unfortunately he went all in on guardians having never seen the double port and possibly thinking he was further behind than he was thus the all in.
The series was actually very close and could have gone either way.
On May 30 2017 18:05 [sc1f]eonzerg wrote: Letian at this point i dont really know what are u trying to explain anymore,for more than 20 years zerg ,in any form of skill zerg flight right into marines army.there re so many task to do,it is one of the most common mistakes u can find.and tbh you and the rest qhould stop praising the old games and actually watch it again,you guys are acting like grandmas.the skill is much higher now,u can see it daily on streams.i will not debate offline tourneys since not only skill matters.
Well, you said it yourself, one of the "common mistakes". Mistakes in semi-final have high cost. I prefer watching games without muta flying into mm and many other sloppy moments Soulkey showed us, it is not only about muta ffs.
EPT
