EPTOn May 21 2017 20:48 tube wrote:
i believe getting a dark archon and maelstrom is the answer to muta ht snipes
i believe getting a dark archon and maelstrom is the answer to muta ht snipes
Have dragoon range might have helped.
[ASL3] Soulkey vs BeSt - Page 9
| Forum Index > Brood War Tournaments |
|
xccam
Great Britain1150 Posts
Have dragoon range might have helped. | ||
|
juvenal
2448 Posts
On May 21 2017 20:50 Zariel wrote: A-move hydras, micro mutas, snipe templars dude Best is literally tier1 a-move protoss, it is only fair he got rekt by mass hydra. | ||
|
tube
United States1475 Posts
-theorycrafting shitter | ||
FlaShFTW
United States10218 Posts
| ||
|
traxamillion
104 Posts
Series went to 5 games and was competitive. I've seen much worse. Crying about Hydra busts and how ez/lame they are is dumb. None of you would probably ever pull one off against best and they are a necessary part of randomizing your strategy | ||
|
autrim64
1 Post
| ||
|
c3rberUs
Japan11286 Posts
on Tuesday | ||
|
xccam
Great Britain1150 Posts
On May 21 2017 20:53 FlaShFTW wrote: I TOLD YOU ALL MUTA SWITCHES MAN If your opponents composition is 90% dragoons and he forgets to have goon range 15 minutes into the game, you can probably make just about whatever you want. EDIT: not to take anything away from soulkey, but BeSt didn't help himself there. | ||
|
ortseam
996 Posts
| ||
|
r.Evo
Germany14080 Posts
On May 21 2017 20:56 ortseam wrote: Best actually forgot goon range, and the DT drop reaction was practically instant from SK, like wtf fast. Also good luck microing hydras when you have to keep the mutas moving around There was also an Overlord popping a few seconds before DTs got there so that helped a bit. | ||
|
FlaShFTW
United States10218 Posts
On May 21 2017 20:56 xccam wrote: If your opponents composition is 90% dragoons and he forgets to have goon range 15 minutes into the game, you can probably make just about whatever you want. mass hydra will still melt to those 3 ht with at least 2 storms in each of them. but yes goon range does help but he melted to that attack, goon range does not save him there. | ||
|
reminisce12
Australia318 Posts
| ||
|
traxamillion
104 Posts
On May 21 2017 20:52 arbiter_md wrote: Somehow even that DT drop and couple of dodge-less storms didn't help Best to recover from that initial damage done by lings. Soul key taking that 4th allowed him enough economy to push through with hydras in the end and he did a good job keeping the HT count low. Didnt help best flew his corsairs right over Hydra in the middle of the map and basically lost his only 2. The Ling run by didn't do huge damage but he did some work and kept base in his base while the counter DT drop was reacted to quickly and SKG only lost 5 or so drones. Had best not pulled that drop though I don't think he gets a 3rd up at all | ||
|
ortseam
996 Posts
On May 21 2017 20:57 r.Evo wrote: There was also an Overlord popping a few seconds before DTs got there so that helped a bit. Well yeah, if there is no overlord you can't notice at all. Also forgot to mention that he completely gave up the high ground in the last attack, not that it mattered that much | ||
|
traxamillion
104 Posts
| ||
|
RKC
2848 Posts
As for not dodging storms, he could've done better and been less wasteful. But he wanted to keep up the aggression, and wasn't really worried about the losses as the second wave was coming (as quoted during the interview). No one plays perfect. He perhaps figured that focusing on macro was a better use of his time and attention. And the plan worked. Sure, the games looked scrappy, but it was all part of SK's aggressive gameplan. Credit where credit is due. | ||
|
xccam
Great Britain1150 Posts
On May 21 2017 20:57 FlaShFTW wrote: mass hydra will still melt to those 3 ht with at least 2 storms in each of them. but yes goon range does help but he melted to that attack, goon range does not save him there. We will never know if it would be enough to win BeSt the game, but if he remembers range the mutas take more damage sniping templar the first time round, take more damage sniping the probes and flying into the main, and take more damage running in to snipe templar in the final fight, as well as this more dragoons are firing at hydras and mutas in the final fight. Muta switches do not instantly win the game against protoss (even without corsairs) and Soulkey was not far enough ahead that there was nothing they could do. The reason BeSt lost that fight like he did was because he forgot Dragoon range. If you honestly think there was nothing BeSt could actively done to prevent that loss perhaps people SHOULD be complaining about zerg vs protoss. | ||
|
RowdierBob
Australia13241 Posts
| ||
|
FlaShFTW
United States10218 Posts
On May 21 2017 21:07 xccam wrote: We will never know if it would be enough to win BeSt the game, but if he remembers range the mutas take more damage sniping templar the first time round, take more damage sniping the probes and flying into the main, and take more damage running in to snipe templar in the final fight, as well as this more dragoons are firing at hydras and mutas in the final fight. Muta switches do not instantly win the game against protoss (even without corsairs) and Soulkey was not far enough ahead that there was nothing they could do. The reason BeSt lost that fight like he did was because he forgot Dragoon range. If you honestly think there was nothing BeSt could actively done to prevent that loss perhaps people SHOULD be complaining about zerg vs protoss. you do not have goon range that early with only like 5 goons out. rewatch the game. he had like 5 goons when the mutas first attacked and no protoss is getting goon range that early. the only reason why protoss has a chance against zerg in mass attacks IS BECAUSE OF STORM. this is not a debatable issue. Protoss is able to hold their own against mass zerg because of AOE. rewatch the fight. sk gets hit by 2 storms without even dodging well and still wins the fight with 18 hydras left over. goon range on about 20 goons does not make him lose all 18 of those hydras. you are dead wrong, the muta switch is what won soulkey the game. | ||
|
faculty.aCe.
Germany107 Posts
On May 21 2017 21:15 FlaShFTW wrote: you do not have goon range that early with only like 5 goons out. rewatch the game. he had like 5 goons when the mutas first attacked and no protoss is getting goon range that early. the only reason why protoss has a chance against zerg in mass attacks IS BECAUSE OF STORM. this is not a debatable issue. Protoss is able to hold their own against mass zerg because of AOE. rewatch the fight. sk gets hit by 2 storms without even dodging well and still wins the fight with 18 hydras left over. goon range on about 20 goons does not make him lose all 18 of those hydras. you are dead wrong, the muta switch is what won soulkey the game. The muta switch winning the game was the result of many mistakes made by Best beforehand. The 1-gate-opening without any harassment put him in a passive position. Having a super late forge allowed the early-on ling-aggression, that cost him a cannon, a pylon and made Best build an additional cannon in the main base. Later on soulkey perfectly countered the mass-zealot aggression by going 6 hatch-hydra. All in all that puts Best in a huge disadvantage, and he had to cut edges here and there to even be able to get a proper army and another base up. So he didn't have the 10-12 goons up, nor any archons that would usually already be there, when the mutas arrive. All in all Best's mistakes cost him the series. | ||
| ||
