EPTFilthy BW Cup Weekly - Page 24
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BoA[WHITE]
13 Posts
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FilthyRake
United States473 Posts
https://smash.gg/tournament/filthy-bw-cup-weekly-9 | ||
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FilthyRake
United States473 Posts
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Fazers
736 Posts
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vinipuxas
Lithuania25 Posts
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trutaCz
Poland686 Posts
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SchAmToo
United States1141 Posts
We still had 100 viewers today, so while you may have ran out of motivation, the viewers haven't. It's also the lull between 1.18 coming out and remastered. Do we need to adjust the tournament a bit to fix attendance? Maybe. We made it so 3/4th get payouts so I don't see what the major problem is if people don't get first place. If the problem is literally just because Scan is here then I dunno what to tell you. | ||
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FilthyRake
United States473 Posts
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Jealous
10282 Posts
On June 12 2017 09:28 FilthyRake wrote: Well, my current plan is to only run 3 more of these. So, trutaCz, soon you wont have to worry about me giving money to other people, since it wont be going into the BW scene at all. Congratulations? ): I'm very sorry to hear that you are no longer going to be running these events. It is upsetting to see what has been written by the vocal minority at times. I of course can't speak for anyone else directly, but I know that I enjoyed your tournaments very much and I want to give you a very big, heartfelt thank you for your time, effort, and contributions. I am sure I'm not alone in this sentiment. I hope even if you do not continue running your tour, you continue to enjoy Brood War and be a part of this community Cheers <3 | ||
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L_Master
United States8017 Posts
On June 12 2017 05:54 trutaCz wrote: Well it's not surprising to me. To have a successful tournament you need to have a lot of players and viewers. To have a lot of players and viewers you need to offer them what are they looking for. If they dont find it, they won't tune in. Schamtoo and Filthy are new guys in the BW scene. They want to do it on their own rules, it's fine. It's not working though. For me it's like deja vu from the past (TLC 1-20 cups) - wasted potential. But i already lost my motivation and interest, so i will end this post even though i would normally have a lot of more to write it here. Viewers are getting what they want. Seeing you top dogs battling it out on a regular basis; it's nice to see and from a spectator standpoint everyone is satisfied. The other spectators want to see? Our best (that's guys like you, Bonyth, Eon, Dewalt, etc.) taking on the korean armada, whether that's scan, sonstar, or FlaSh. You couldn't design a better tournament for a viewer perspective aside from having it be a tournament that's seen as a "major" in the way that TSL or ISL was. From a player perspective, what are players not getting? If the answer is money, I think it's unrealistic to expect a greater amount of money, there aren't yet big sponsors or anyone capable of providing money. $100/tour is greater payout than even most defiler tours. The map pool is solid and reasonable. What is unsatisfying as a player? | ||
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MymSlorm
Chile187 Posts
On June 12 2017 10:20 L_Master wrote: Viewers are getting what they want. Seeing you top dogs battling it out on a regular basis; it's nice to see and from a spectator standpoint everyone is satisfied. The other spectators want to see? Our best (that's guys like you, Bonyth, Eon, Dewalt, etc.) taking on the korean armada, whether that's scan, sonstar, or FlaSh. You couldn't design a better tournament for a viewer perspective aside from having it be a tournament that's seen as a "major" in the way that TSL or ISL was. From a player perspective, what are players not getting? If the answer is money, I think it's unrealistic to expect a greater amount of money, there aren't yet big sponsors or anyone capable of providing money. $100/tour is greater payout than even most defiler tours. The map pool is solid and reasonable. What is unsatisfying as a player? Well i think it's frustrating for every foreigner to get defeated by Scan over and over, and watch him get almost everytime the 1st place without that much effort into defeating everyone, i mean he's far above foreigners so they feel he doesn't belong at this tournaments, he belongs at Korean clan wars, and tours where the level is much higher. And let's face it, Scan is at the level of a profesional player because he has trained and get advices from other pros, or ex pro Korean players in order to improve beyond amateur players, While all the foreigners are amateur. So in a tournament where 99% of the people are amateur it's obvious that almost everyone would feel rejection to participate when they let a profesional participate and they don't get a chance to get to the semifinals or finals if they're on the wrong side of the bracket. That's why in any sports profesionals and amateur players play in different divisions. For last the guys organizing this tournaments say it's an open tournament but they promote it at an amateur site, which doesn't make any sense, if they promote a tournament at an amateur site, they should make the regulations to adjust their tournament to the audience and players they are aiming for. The Open tournaments are better when you promote it on sites with mostly profesionals, So you don't see one sided matches everytime, and the same person defeating everyone everytime. In my opinión they had a good idea but the execution was bad, they didn't listen to the audience and players base in which they were promoting their tournaments and the amount of attendees started to fall a lot at both Filthy Cup and Have At You, having 1/3 of the amount of players or less than when they started, which isn't good for the viewers or the players as i stated (and even if the amount of viewers you got this weekend at the tours are higher than the first ones, it doesn't mean it was a better spectacle this weekend, You've got more people watching because it has been run for months and it's more known now). In my opinion it's good to listen to advices, i'm sure if they would have taken the advices from the community and players, to make it foreigners only tour it would be running with a bigger pool of players(as big or more than when they started), and bigger amount of viewers, because there are a lot of guys at similar level on the foreigner scene so there would have been different winners, which makes it more exciting to watch than watching Scan roll over everyone. so next time don't be so stubborn and be more flexible, the people don't lose their time typing things just to bother you, it's to cooperate and help the teamliquid broodwar community to grow. | ||
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L_Master
United States8017 Posts
On June 12 2017 13:52 MymSlorm wrote: Well i think it's frustrating for every foreigner to get defeated by Scan over and over, and watch him get almost everytime the 1st place without that much effort into defeating everyone, i mean he's far above foreigners so they feel he doesn't belong at this tournaments, he belongs at Korean clan wars, and tours where the level is much higher. And let's face it, Scan is at the level of a profesional player because he has trained and get advices from other pros, or ex pro Korean players in order to improve beyond amateur players, While all the foreigners are amateur. So in a tournament where 99% of the people are amateur it's obvious that almost everyone would feel rejection to participate when they let a profesional participate and they don't get a chance to get to the semifinals or finals if they're on the wrong side of the bracket. That's why in any sports profesionals and amateur players play in different divisions. They don't in bike racing. There are obviously some pro only races, but most races that allow amateurs are P-1-2, meaning pros and the top 2 categories of amateurs. Pros show up sometimes, and nobody has a problem with it. In fact, usually it's a nice opportunity to get tested by people who are stronger and more experienced than you. Not to mention riding with better riders is great for becoming better yourself, just as playing starcraft against better players helps you improve. Not to mention it's great fun to play against fantastic players that are above your level. | ||
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trutaCz
Poland686 Posts
On June 12 2017 09:28 FilthyRake wrote: Well, my current plan is to only run 3 more of these. So, trutaCz, soon you wont have to worry about me giving money to other people, since it wont be going into the BW scene at all. Congratulations? I dont worry about you giving money to other people. Congratulations? For who? For me? How is it about me? I play tournaments for money and the competition, but you need to realize that tournament will survive without me, but it will not survive without the other guys.... There is a ton of people who lost interest in playing and watching. They just dont speak here as i do, and from what i know they have similiar opinion to mine. If you wanted to have your tour running well you should care about people's opinions, it can not work otherwise, not in the still small community of bw players. You guys have a lot of experience from SC2 i believe, but these games and communities and rules used to be hell different. Last but not least you can have both, koreans in tournament and a great tournament. Having Scan here makes a lot of people not interested, so if you want to have both you need to offer something for them. Defiler had Scan for years, and i think it was/it is a successful tournament. | ||
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[sc1f]eonzerg
Belgium6811 Posts
On June 12 2017 09:28 FilthyRake wrote: Well, my current plan is to only run 3 more of these. So, trutaCz, soon you wont have to worry about me giving money to other people, since it wont be going into the BW scene at all. Congratulations? i think the congratulations was not necessary.I think is ironic the SC2 version of filthy is region lock,where the skill is not so different,if i train this game for 1-2 months i should be fighting for the finals already... in BW the skill from Korean/foreigners is huge.watch every single WCG was won by a Korean.watch any pre BW league there was always korean restriction. in the portal Defiler.ru They are proly the most BW supporter community,they allow koreans to play in tournaments in the main tour called defiler tour,and this is ok since you are testing yourself from time to time in 1 tourney.they host many type of tourneys and they also host only rus tourneys and they are pretty cool to watch.I think based in the comments from many posters the Scan participation is looking amazing.but my question is.WHY ALL THE PLAYERS WANTING TO PLAY SCAN ARE NOT COMMING TO PLAY ANY TOURNEY ???Why i have more than 50 viewers complaining everytime on my stream about scan participation.people are hating Scan so much that i also loss my mind this weekend and started to flame him even if i had prepared myself to not care about this anymore.And u know what ?this was a big waste of potential.u could have a more interesting event with a lot of closer games (good games,cuz there are many talented foreigners) a big player pool,more exposure for foreigners.less complains.and maybe a more friendly korean time tourney like 3 tourneys only kor and then 1 open for all korean friendly time,(not 4 am in Korea) where u will have talented semipros like Shinee Beast etc.Who wants to get smashed against Tyson if you weight 68kg ? over and over and over and over.I also read how some people said,is good to have Scan in tourneys since you will skill up.I mean.i need to die 3 times to match scans skill.his zerg race alone is already better than mine.just look how he destroyed Bonyth zvp in the defiler tour final.But yeah thanks for hosting the tourneys.thanks to the complainers that atm are the only people coming.is funny cuz we are coming to you guys dont cancel the tourneys.but yeah...for next the weekend i wish you all saying that you love playing Scan come register and play for the first time. | ||
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SchAmToo
United States1141 Posts
I think no matter how I dice my regions up, one region will always win because of some reason. The sad thing is, we made different prizepool so more people made money. We've had Bonyth win vs Scan. Sonstar, the other korean who used to show up, stopped showing up because he kept losing. Yet all I hear is complaints about Scan. I feel like i'm not being told to ban korea, im being told to ban Scan. It happens in every tournament. Hell in New York City LANs people wanted to ban Pokebunny from showing up because he kept winning every SC2 tournament. In old SC2 tournaments I used to cast that were NA only, players from Korea would just make smurfs and still enter. It's SO HARD to region-lock online tournaments.I'm not willing to put in the effort, im lazy. But I'm putting money into the scene. Eon, Trutacz, etc, you've all made money from these tournaments but every chance you get you say "Oh im done not playing" This scene makes it so hard for people to just put a tournament together and run it without problem. So many people come in and just complain. Makes me really wonder what killed foreign Broodwar some times... Filthy doesn't even play or really watch BW. I convinced him to start holding tournaments and gave him a lot of help in setting up his. He wanted to just put tournaments together because BW doesn't have many. Yet he's tired, and done because even tho we're trying to help this scene with anything just because it's not exactly some players vision, everyone starts complaining and stops playing. I dunno, man. It's really hard to want to keep making tournaments for this scene. It really is. | ||
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LaStScan
Korea (South)1289 Posts
Its like those steam games where AI continues to study the players' playstyle and stuff what it did wrong to improve. For an example, 'hello, neighbor' game. Player has to sneak into the neighbor's house because he is hiding something. Should check out youtube video. Another example i can thnk of is google deepmind alphago. Keep playing learning/analyzing every information it can to get better and better. I do have couple expro friends, but we dont give advices normally. This is not just for me. Every other expros they dont give advices because sc game like a moving chess/go that every situation is so different and some players committ to bust or expand like crazy with small amount of army. The only advices that players normally give in high level games are probably bad decision making and bad micro in the beginning(small timing att). | ||
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LaStScan
Korea (South)1289 Posts
On June 12 2017 16:47 SchAmToo wrote: To be fair, no NA person gets into the finals either. If I only allow NA players now what? Europe is too good for NA. I think no matter how I dice my regions up, one region will always win because of some reason. The sad thing is, we made different prizepool so more people made money. We've had Bonyth win vs Scan. Sonstar, the other korean who used to show up, stopped showing up because he kept losing. Yet all I hear is complaints about Scan. I feel like i'm not being told to ban korea, im being told to ban Scan. It happens in every tournament. Hell in New York City LANs people wanted to ban Pokebunny from showing up because he kept winning every SC2 tournament. In old SC2 tournaments I used to cast that were NA only, players from Korea would just make smurfs and still enter. It's SO HARD to region-lock online tournaments.I'm not willing to put in the effort, im lazy. But I'm putting money into the scene. Eon, Trutacz, etc, you've all made money from these tournaments but every chance you get you say "Oh im done not playing" This scene makes it so hard for people to just put a tournament together and run it without problem. So many people come in and just complain. Makes me really wonder what killed foreign Broodwar some times... Filthy doesn't even play or really watch BW. I convinced him to start holding tournaments and gave him a lot of help in setting up his. He wanted to just put tournaments together because BW doesn't have many. Yet he's tired, and done because even tho we're trying to help this scene with anything just because it's not exactly some players vision, everyone starts complaining and stops playing. I dunno, man. It's really hard to want to keep making tournaments for this scene. It really is. I might notice why high skilled players who stream their games have some jerk attitude. I had it too when I was young like 5+ years ago. Funny thing is even Koreans who reside at different regions are also having jerk attitude. They didn't normally when they were 'okayish' players. Another funny thing is foreign community users, including top foreign players are liking Korean players who never had connection with foreign scenes/tours. I wonder if they are gonna act the same or gonna show 2 different faces(because they think they are nice and Scan = shit kid) when they ever start having connection with foreign community. | ||
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noname_
466 Posts
+ Show Spoiler + I think complaints about Scan were/are a genuine outburst of the good players for many reasons, personally I don`t really care, if he plays or not, I`m just only bothered by his lag from time to time (not that I`d have a chance anyway) :p. I just have 2 questions, not or somewhat related to Filthy / Have at you: 1. In Korea are there online tourneys like these kind? 2. Out of the huge-huge player pool from Korea, how it`s only 1-2 Koreans come to Filthy / Have at you / Defiler? | ||
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TT1
Canada10014 Posts
Correct me if im wrong but he shares his replays, he gives tips on the strategy forum (even writes guides) and he streams on twitch for foreigners (of course i realize that he gains something by doing this as well, its a 2 way street but in the end foreign viewers were able to have a place to interact and experience high level BW games). But at the same time i can understand the foreign players and how frustrating this must be for them, it's a tough spot to be it. I think maybe you guys should just hold off on hosting any more tourneys until remastered comes out and the player base explodes. We'll have more than enough players/viewers to support tourneys when that happens. | ||
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Bonyth
Poland594 Posts
What Schamtoo and Filthy do are great for the scene. I appreciate it. These kind of tours are way better than no tours. Don't get me wrong, I still think what I think regarding the subject. I still think being born in Korea gets u a significant advantage in SC:BW over other countries. Nevertheless, I wrote about it before and I'm not going into this mess again. So, we, BroodWar community appreciate your tournaments, because it's a great thing for us to have. I'm sure other players appreciate it as well but just have a tendency to bash something that is not perfect. It's like u make lots of cakes for us, but there are never cherries on it :D | ||
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