(Vote): Nope (Vote): If you have time (Vote): Good (Vote): Excellent (Vote): Game of the year
Predictions
Poll: Who will destroy everyone ?
Ding Dong it's the dong who cares ? (15)
54%
Jaedong / Best (10)
36%
Jaedong / Mong (1)
4%
Jaedong / Hint (1)
4%
Mong / Best (1)
4%
Mong / Hint (0)
0%
Best / Hint (0)
0%
28 total votes
Your vote: Who will destroy everyone ?
(Vote): Jaedong / Mong (Vote): Jaedong / Best (Vote): Jaedong / Hint (Vote): Mong / Best (Vote): Mong / Hint (Vote): Best / Hint (Vote): Ding Dong it's the dong who cares ?
On December 12 2016 19:25 Miragee wrote: Vultures are a very good idea by mong.
Is it a reaction to lurker/ling or is it as part of a mech transition?
they'd actually be really annoying for jd if he had rushed hive off 3base, he wouldnt be able to do much of anything
Yeah this. I mean I can't read Mong's mind but it would make sense if it was a reaction to lurker/ling. In the end he didn't use them nearly as well as he could and Jaedong played very well to not let Mong abuse the Vultures.
Jaedong played like a beast here. Pretty on point.
I tuned in late but seems like Mong played like a Mong. Where were his siege tanks and where was his vessel tech? I'll have to watch the vod when it's available.
(Vote): Jaedong / Mong (Vote): Jaedong / Best (Vote): Jaedong / Hint (Vote): Mong / Best (Vote): Mong / Hint (Vote): Best / Hint (Vote): Ding Dong it's the dong who cares ?
On December 12 2016 19:34 B-royal wrote: I tuned in late but seems like Mong played like a Mong. Where were his siege tanks and where was his vessel tech? I'll have to watch the vod when it's available.
Def watch the Vod, this is how ZvT on Benzene needs to be played.
Jaedong to save the Zerg race (flex)
On December 12 2016 19:35 [sc1f]eonzerg wrote: one thing is sure,Jaedong offline is a totally differnt player.
You don't become a champion for nothing if you don't Clutch it at the major tournies :D
Also I'm sure Jaedong has not shown his full potential on stream, it's all mind games^^
On December 12 2016 19:34 B-royal wrote: I tuned in late but seems like Mong played like a Mong. Where were his siege tanks and where was his vessel tech? I'll have to watch the vod when it's available.
No eco. As said, he has basically been on 1 base for half the game.
On December 12 2016 19:34 B-royal wrote: I tuned in late but seems like Mong played like a Mong. Where were his siege tanks and where was his vessel tech? I'll have to watch the vod when it's available.
His Tanks were getting picked off by Mutas, and one randomly died to the backdoor Lurkers. Plus, his mining was limited to one base for the longest time because of those backdoor Lurkers, not to mention losing a couple of Dropships too.
On December 12 2016 19:31 gngfn wrote: Is anyone else getting a really old-school-Savior type of vibe from this game?
jd has been doing lots of stuff like this lately on stream lately ie his use of hold lurkers in most of his zvt's. You see him place them by bridge outside his 4th as example and it just slaughters so many terrans who just assume they will be up the ramp at his third.
On December 12 2016 19:34 B-royal wrote: I tuned in late but seems like Mong played like a Mong. Where were his siege tanks and where was his vessel tech? I'll have to watch the vod when it's available.
Tanks were snipped.
What I lived about the game was the lurker info mutalisk transition. Jaedong made mistakes, like donating three lurkers to mong near his third lol but it wasn't too bad overall.
On December 12 2016 19:25 Miragee wrote: Vultures are a very good idea by mong.
Is it a reaction to lurker/ling or is it as part of a mech transition?
they'd actually be really annoying for jd if he had rushed hive off 3base, he wouldnt be able to do much of anything
Yeah this. I mean I can't read Mong's mind but it would make sense if it was a reaction to lurker/ling. In the end he didn't use them nearly as well as he could and Jaedong played very well to not let Mong abuse the Vultures.
Jaedong played like a beast here. Pretty on point.
I think vultures were a terrible idea. The fast upgrade into mass barracks into fast vultures is a trend that works against traditional zerg play that involves mutalisks into hive play. Mong was using a strategy without actually fully understanding why it was evolved, and ended up playing sub-optimally to a style that died out to low barrack count into fast factory tank based play. Light was commentating on the game, and said that all you need to do is the moment you see no spire is to build a bunker above the natural due to the shape of the map, and rush tanks in order to counter the drop play and the composition of the enemy army.
Flash guessed JD's BO perfectly. No pool 3 hatch into lurker to dropping main and behind the mineral line of the expo. "I knew JD wasn't going to play a normal game. I knew he was going to turn it into a technical and multitasking game."
On December 12 2016 19:31 gngfn wrote: Is anyone else getting a really old-school-Savior type of vibe from this game?
jd has been doing lots of stuff like this lately on stream lately ie his use of hold lurkers in most of his zvt's. You see him place them by bridge outside his 4th as example and it just slaughters so many terrans who just assume they will be up the ramp at his third.
I meant more the very defensive low-econ play, late transition to Hive, creative use of mutalisks for more than just opening harassment (along with vintage 2007-level muta micro).
That game reminded me a lot of the game against Midas on Reverse Temple. It even had drop lurkers!
On December 12 2016 19:25 Miragee wrote: Vultures are a very good idea by mong.
Is it a reaction to lurker/ling or is it as part of a mech transition?
they'd actually be really annoying for jd if he had rushed hive off 3base, he wouldnt be able to do much of anything
Yeah this. I mean I can't read Mong's mind but it would make sense if it was a reaction to lurker/ling. In the end he didn't use them nearly as well as he could and Jaedong played very well to not let Mong abuse the Vultures.
Jaedong played like a beast here. Pretty on point.
I think vultures were a terrible idea. The fast upgrade into mass barracks into fast vultures is a trend that works against traditional zerg play that involves mutalisks into hive play. Mong was using a strategy without actually fully understanding why it was evolved, and ended up playing sub-optimally to a style that died out to low barrack count into fast factory tank based play. Light was commentating on the game, and said that all you need to do is the moment you see no spire is to build a bunker above the natural due to the shape of the map, and rush tanks in order to counter the drop play and the composition of the enemy army.
The problem was his low mineral count. If he was high on minerals and had built a lot of vultures that would have been another story. Mines are pretty good against lurker/ling. Vultures themselves do ok against lurker/ling because they are very good against lings and basically don't get hit by lurkers if you do it correctly. They are also great to harass against lurker ling and kill of drones.
On December 12 2016 19:56 Miragee wrote: I must say that Best plays kind of meh and Hint is playing surprisingly well. If he survives here, he is in a very good position.
On December 12 2016 19:56 Miragee wrote: I must say that Best plays kind of meh and Hint is playing surprisingly well. If he survives here, he is in a very good position.
//Apparently Best isn't even going to push.
Yes hint had been playing well enough imo
No storms for Hint though, lol. Too bad he played so well then made one blunder and lost the game.
On December 12 2016 19:25 Miragee wrote: Vultures are a very good idea by mong.
Is it a reaction to lurker/ling or is it as part of a mech transition?
they'd actually be really annoying for jd if he had rushed hive off 3base, he wouldnt be able to do much of anything
Yeah this. I mean I can't read Mong's mind but it would make sense if it was a reaction to lurker/ling. In the end he didn't use them nearly as well as he could and Jaedong played very well to not let Mong abuse the Vultures.
Jaedong played like a beast here. Pretty on point.
I think vultures were a terrible idea. The fast upgrade into mass barracks into fast vultures is a trend that works against traditional zerg play that involves mutalisks into hive play. Mong was using a strategy without actually fully understanding why it was evolved, and ended up playing sub-optimally to a style that died out to low barrack count into fast factory tank based play. Light was commentating on the game, and said that all you need to do is the moment you see no spire is to build a bunker above the natural due to the shape of the map, and rush tanks in order to counter the drop play and the composition of the enemy army.
Thanks for comment, hearing Lights view on things must be great wish I could understand Korean as well >_>
On December 12 2016 19:25 Miragee wrote: Vultures are a very good idea by mong.
Is it a reaction to lurker/ling or is it as part of a mech transition?
they'd actually be really annoying for jd if he had rushed hive off 3base, he wouldnt be able to do much of anything
Yeah this. I mean I can't read Mong's mind but it would make sense if it was a reaction to lurker/ling. In the end he didn't use them nearly as well as he could and Jaedong played very well to not let Mong abuse the Vultures.
Jaedong played like a beast here. Pretty on point.
I think vultures were a terrible idea. The fast upgrade into mass barracks into fast vultures is a trend that works against traditional zerg play that involves mutalisks into hive play. Mong was using a strategy without actually fully understanding why it was evolved, and ended up playing sub-optimally to a style that died out to low barrack count into fast factory tank based play. Light was commentating on the game, and said that all you need to do is the moment you see no spire is to build a bunker above the natural due to the shape of the map, and rush tanks in order to counter the drop play and the composition of the enemy army.
The problem was his low mineral count. If he was high on minerals and had built a lot of vultures that would have been another story. Mines are pretty good against lurker/ling. Vultures themselves do ok against lurker/ling because they are very good against lings and basically don't get hit by lurkers if you do it correctly. They are also great to harass against lurker ling and kill of drones.
We can discuss this another time, but I think you're arguing the wrong points here. Going for vultures when the zerg goes for a fast drop play is just bad, it works much better when the zerg goes for a more standard fast hive and cannot afford drops. He was playing as if Jaedong was playing standard, and did not adjust his style against a pretty much defunct strategy due how easily countered it is if someone knows it's coming. He scouted it, he saw all the signs of a drop play coming, yet played as if he was switching to late-mech against standard zerg play.
On December 12 2016 19:59 [[Starlight]] wrote: Pretty even game for a long while, and then boom! Hackanim folds.
best was really far ahead for a very long time that game.
What, no... He had a slight army advantage but Hint expanded way earlier. If he had held for another 2 minutes to let his eco kick in, he would be in a pretty good position. Hint just made a bad mistake with his unit composition. Too many zealots (third was mineral only though, so....) and no storm. How was best ahead for a very long time?
On December 12 2016 19:59 [[Starlight]] wrote: Pretty even game for a long while, and then boom! Hackanim folds.
best was really far ahead for a very long time that game.
What, no... He had a slight army advantage but Hint expanded way earlier. If he had held for another 2 minutes to let his eco kick in, he would be in a pretty good position. Hint just made a bad mistake with his unit composition. Too many zealots (third was mineral only though, so....) and no storm. How was best ahead for a very long time?
pvp is like zvz lite, small advantages don't count as much as zvz but being like 6 goons ahead after they traded armies at best's nat is massive
and expansions don't mean anything if you can't defend it, it was a last ditch effort that he hoped wouldn't be acted on
I'm really out of the loop but does hydra bust still works ? I thought Hydra bust was just used as a contain to get Lurk or mutas instead of pure old school allin ? Why fight the canons ?
On December 12 2016 20:21 Miragee wrote: Best read JD's every move. Well scouted and reacted. The zealot attack was nice and did way more damage than I expected.
I don't get why he fought below the ramp too. He couldn't surround. Was it more dangerous to pull back than to trap the zealots ?
On December 12 2016 20:20 FFW_Rude wrote: I'm really out of the loop but does hydra bust still works ? I thought Hydra bust was just used as a contain to get Lurk or mutas instead of pure old school allin ? Why fight the canons ?
And why no speed on lings ?
It worked last night. It doesn't work when they know it's coming and you lose a good number of drones to a few zealots.
On December 12 2016 20:20 FFW_Rude wrote: I'm really out of the loop but does hydra bust still works ? I thought Hydra bust was just used as a contain to get Lurk or mutas instead of pure old school allin ? Why fight the canons ?
And why no speed on lings ?
It worked last night. It doesn't work when they know it's coming and you lose a good number of drones to a few zealots.
On December 12 2016 20:21 Miragee wrote: Best read JD's every move. Well scouted and reacted. The zealot attack was nice and did way more damage than I expected.
It was really smart how he found that little cubbyhole and negated JD's surround. Terrain-sense FTW.
It's one of those things I always want to see Protoss players do in zealot vs ling engagements, but they never seem to.
On December 12 2016 20:21 Miragee wrote: Best read JD's every move. Well scouted and reacted. The zealot attack was nice and did way more damage than I expected.
It was really smart how he found that little cubbyhole and negated JD's surround.
It's one of those things I always want to see Protoss players do in zealot vs ling engagements, but they never seem to.
and big facepalm when i see JD still attack the zealots then. there was 0 need to engage and give protoss the engagement advantage.
On December 12 2016 20:21 Miragee wrote: Best read JD's every move. Well scouted and reacted. The zealot attack was nice and did way more damage than I expected.
It was really smart how he found that little cubbyhole and negated JD's surround.
It's one of those things I always want to see Protoss players do in zealot vs ling engagements, but they never seem to.
and big facepalm when i see JD still attack the zealots then.
Yeah that felt really odd. I thought he fought because JD didn't want the zeal to go into his main but he should have pulled back to try to trap no ?
I think vultures were a terrible idea. The fast upgrade into mass barracks into fast vultures is a trend that works against traditional zerg play that involves mutalisks into hive play. Mong was using a strategy without actually fully understanding why it was evolved, and ended up playing sub-optimally to a style that died out to low barrack count into fast factory tank based play. Light was commentating on the game, and said that all you need to do is the moment you see no spire is to build a bunker above the natural due to the shape of the map, and rush tanks in order to counter the drop play and the composition of the enemy army.
Thank for your share!
I usually use vultures when I reaction lurker and zergling but it wasn't work because of it was broken by zerg player. They will use some zergling to destroy my spider mine easily.
When I read your post, It's very good for me and for Terran player, the tanks is very strong and it's only afraid of defiler.
This match Mong lost Jong so he was so bad reaction Dong's drop lurker strategy, It is so waste time and he lost a tank there and so many tanks then.
On December 12 2016 20:32 killer1nz wrote: i thought jaedong was making hydras at home when the initial zealot attack came, was he trying to hide the fact he had a hydra den by making lings?
On December 12 2016 20:32 killer1nz wrote: i thought jaedong was making hydras at home when the initial zealot attack came, was he trying to hide the fact he had a hydra den by making lings?
Maybe that's why he fought in this choke
lose the fight due to poor engagement angle, protoss goes up the ramp anyway. or back off from the choke and cover the ramp with lings guess its hard to think far in the heat of the moment.
On December 12 2016 20:32 killer1nz wrote: i thought jaedong was making hydras at home when the initial zealot attack came, was he trying to hide the fact he had a hydra den by making lings?
Maybe that's why he fought in this choke
lose the fight due to poor engagement angle, protoss goes up the ramp anyway. or back off from the choke and cover the ramp with lings guess its hard to think far in the heat of the moment.
Yeah that's true. I just ask question because i haven't watch BW regulary (sorry for stupid questions). SOSPA wasn't for me and i haven't play since loooong years
Sorry for all the questions. I'm just excited to watch BW in 2016 with a good quality
All these players are like "I'm so much better than Hint so I'm just going to turtle like crazy". I feel bad for Hint because he actually isn't playing bad at all. I hope he beats Mong here.
Hint! Oh wow. I feel like he can't really keep up with all of this. Lots of idle units all over the map. But the ones he is using, he is using well. Imagine he would use all of them, lol.
Damn. Better army control won Mong the game here but this Hint guy has potential if he works hard on that part. BisuDagger was correct: If Best had taken over Mong would have lost so hard.
On December 12 2016 21:12 Incognoto wrote: can brood war veterans tell me who is favored here?
this is a TvZ favored map,late game mechanic is very strong,Jaedong is very far from best and MOng is a mech specialist player,if the game goes 50/50 past 15 minutes MOng will win.
On December 12 2016 21:12 Incognoto wrote: can brood war veterans tell me who is favored here?
this is a TvZ favored map,late game mechanic is very strong,Jaedong is very far from best and MOng is a mech specialist player,if the game goes 50/50 past 15 minutes MOng will win.
That was not the best micro from Jaedong but he should hold from this position, he managed to get a 4th base running. He has macro hatches, now it's a good test for a late game.
Can someone good at zvt explain why Jaedong goes back to muta after the lurker opening? It just seems odd to waste money on mutas instead of making more lurkerling.
I think people watching are kind of expecting the mech transition slow death here, but keep in mind that Mong is stuck on 2 gas and can't realistically do that right now.
On December 12 2016 21:32 ~chut~ wrote: Mong doesn't have a 3rd gas running yet, he's unable to go proper mech so far, almost only vults, JD is still ahead
On December 12 2016 21:24 FFW_Rude wrote: That Savior-y lurker backstab just saved him
you mean a savory lurker drop?
No i was talking about the 5 lurker that he used for the contains. He didn't send them back. He hid them far from the vision off the terran than repositionned them to cut back the reinforcement army.
Mong surely thought those lurker went back to JD's base. This move was one of Savior's trademark when he was legit.
On December 12 2016 21:24 FFW_Rude wrote: That Savior-y lurker backstab just saved him
you mean a savory lurker drop?
No i was talking about the 5 lurker that he used for the contains. He didn't send them back. He hid them far from the vision off the terran than repositionned them to cut back the reinforcement army
ah those
i thought you were talking about the lurker he dropped to take out the armory upgrades
i guess lurker drops wasn't what savior was famous for
On December 12 2016 21:24 FFW_Rude wrote: That Savior-y lurker backstab just saved him
you mean a savory lurker drop?
No i was talking about the 5 lurker that he used for the contains. He didn't send them back. He hid them far from the vision off the terran than repositionned them to cut back the reinforcement army
ah those
i thought you were talking about the lurker he dropped to take out the armory upgrades
i guess lurker drops wasn't what savior was famous for
There's a really really good Final edit on Savior's here. If you prefer i have translated it in French a long time ago. I can find it for you if you want.
He sure did a couple mistakes, but that guy is learning fast!!! I did not scream "YEEEEEEEES" like this at the end of an esport game in a very long time. Actualy the dong is the only guy I fucking scream for at the end of games! He is back!!! And I love his mentality : he qualifies, but says he is disapointed by his performance and says he wants to be champion!! I love him!!
On December 12 2016 21:43 neilmellor wrote: I thought JD had no way back after the drop from Mong and lost almost all his tech-buildings. What a come back! First Zerg in Ro16!
Come back??? JD was ahead entire game. Even JD said in the interview that there wasn't a single dangerous moment.
On December 12 2016 21:24 FFW_Rude wrote: That Savior-y lurker backstab just saved him
you mean a savory lurker drop?
No i was talking about the 5 lurker that he used for the contains. He didn't send them back. He hid them far from the vision off the terran than repositionned them to cut back the reinforcement army
ah those
i thought you were talking about the lurker he dropped to take out the armory upgrades
i guess lurker drops wasn't what savior was famous for
There's a really really good Final edit on Savior's here. If you prefer i have translated it in French a long time ago. I can find it for you if you want.
my english > my french no worries
i know savior was the savior of zerg in his prime and he used strong strategic moves to delay pushes and such. i read the TLnet articles about it, but maybe we aren't talking about the same thing? hmm
On December 12 2016 21:28 SoSexy wrote: Why is Flash streaming at the same time? Looks like huge disrespect to me.
such modern way of handling things - take offences wherever you can.
does seem like a very strange thing to pick up on, even if he was just practicing; if he felt the need to do that it would mean he's respecting his opponents' skill even more..
On December 12 2016 21:24 FFW_Rude wrote: That Savior-y lurker backstab just saved him
you mean a savory lurker drop?
No i was talking about the 5 lurker that he used for the contains. He didn't send them back. He hid them far from the vision off the terran than repositionned them to cut back the reinforcement army
ah those
i thought you were talking about the lurker he dropped to take out the armory upgrades
i guess lurker drops wasn't what savior was famous for
There's a really really good Final edit on Savior's here. If you prefer i have translated it in French a long time ago. I can find it for you if you want.
my english > my french no worries
i know savior was the savior of zerg in his prime and he used strong strategic moves to delay pushes and such. i read the TLnet articles about it, but maybe we aren't talking about the same thing? hmm
Yes we are "God of the battlefield 1 and 2" final edit.
And I finally got to see the Hive tech Defiler Ultra Ling TvZ I wanted. Jaedong playing a bit sloppy during both mid games though with the zealot engagement vs Best and that first Lurker push into losing nearly all his Mutas to Irradiate.
On December 12 2016 21:24 FFW_Rude wrote: That Savior-y lurker backstab just saved him
you mean a savory lurker drop?
No i was talking about the 5 lurker that he used for the contains. He didn't send them back. He hid them far from the vision off the terran than repositionned them to cut back the reinforcement army
ah those
i thought you were talking about the lurker he dropped to take out the armory upgrades
i guess lurker drops wasn't what savior was famous for
There's a really really good Final edit on Savior's here. If you prefer i have translated it in French a long time ago. I can find it for you if you want.
my english > my french no worries
i know savior was the savior of zerg in his prime and he used strong strategic moves to delay pushes and such. i read the TLnet articles about it, but maybe we aren't talking about the same thing? hmm
Yes we are "God of the battlefield 1 and 2" final edit.
On December 12 2016 21:24 FFW_Rude wrote: That Savior-y lurker backstab just saved him
you mean a savory lurker drop?
No i was talking about the 5 lurker that he used for the contains. He didn't send them back. He hid them far from the vision off the terran than repositionned them to cut back the reinforcement army
ah those
i thought you were talking about the lurker he dropped to take out the armory upgrades
i guess lurker drops wasn't what savior was famous for
There's a really really good Final edit on Savior's here. If you prefer i have translated it in French a long time ago. I can find it for you if you want.
my english > my french no worries
i know savior was the savior of zerg in his prime and he used strong strategic moves to delay pushes and such. i read the TLnet articles about it, but maybe we aren't talking about the same thing? hmm
Yes we are "God of the battlefield 1 and 2" final edit.
On December 12 2016 21:24 FFW_Rude wrote: That Savior-y lurker backstab just saved him
you mean a savory lurker drop?
No i was talking about the 5 lurker that he used for the contains. He didn't send them back. He hid them far from the vision off the terran than repositionned them to cut back the reinforcement army
ah those
i thought you were talking about the lurker he dropped to take out the armory upgrades
i guess lurker drops wasn't what savior was famous for
There's a really really good Final edit on Savior's here. If you prefer i have translated it in French a long time ago. I can find it for you if you want.
my english > my french no worries
i know savior was the savior of zerg in his prime and he used strong strategic moves to delay pushes and such. i read the TLnet articles about it, but maybe we aren't talking about the same thing? hmm
Basically any top zergs before the popularization of hive play needed awesome ground troop management and tactical awareness in order to survive against terrans. This includes separating your troops to cut off terran reinforcements, making the threat of a base race to confuse his troop movements, make the terran waste as much scans as possible, and delaying the push as much as possible until the last possible moment.
YellOw was the ultimate master of this, and all zergs learned from him, but none to replicate his artform quite like him. sAviOr was also quite cunning with his ground troops, and was praised by July for fully utilizing the tools YellOw had taught other zergs years before.
Wow, JD just flipped a switch there and completely took over the game. A lesser player would of been rattled after that successful drop that killed all his tech.
On December 12 2016 21:24 FFW_Rude wrote: That Savior-y lurker backstab just saved him
you mean a savory lurker drop?
No i was talking about the 5 lurker that he used for the contains. He didn't send them back. He hid them far from the vision off the terran than repositionned them to cut back the reinforcement army
ah those
i thought you were talking about the lurker he dropped to take out the armory upgrades
i guess lurker drops wasn't what savior was famous for
There's a really really good Final edit on Savior's here. If you prefer i have translated it in French a long time ago. I can find it for you if you want.
my english > my french no worries
i know savior was the savior of zerg in his prime and he used strong strategic moves to delay pushes and such. i read the TLnet articles about it, but maybe we aren't talking about the same thing? hmm
Yes we are "God of the battlefield 1 and 2" final edit.
On December 12 2016 21:59 Levque wrote: Wow, JD just flipped a switch there and completely took over the game. A lesser player would of been rattled after that successful drop that killed all his tech.
Well played by Mong, his games were great.
As someone who never played BW (nor SC2) MP, gotta have noob questions. Did JD win the game or it was rather Mong losing it? I mean, I thought JD was dead when most of his tech got destroyed How did he not die there? How did he managed to get all those ultras, and eventually win the game?
On December 12 2016 21:59 Levque wrote: Wow, JD just flipped a switch there and completely took over the game. A lesser player would of been rattled after that successful drop that killed all his tech.
Well played by Mong, his games were great.
As someone who never played BW (nor SC2) MP, gotta have noob questions. Did JD win the game or it was rather Mong losing it? I mean, I thought JD was dead when most of his tech got destroyed How did he not die there? How did he managed to get all those ultras, and eventually win the game?
FLash said JD was still way ahead even when with the successful drop. Reason being zerg secured 4 gas while terran only had 2 gas and Zergs drones were all saturated.
On December 12 2016 21:59 Levque wrote: Wow, JD just flipped a switch there and completely took over the game. A lesser player would of been rattled after that successful drop that killed all his tech.
Well played by Mong, his games were great.
As someone who never played BW (nor SC2) MP, gotta have noob questions. Did JD win the game or it was rather Mong losing it? I mean, I thought JD was dead when most of his tech got destroyed How did he not die there? How did he managed to get all those ultras, and eventually win the game?
FLash said JD was still way ahead even when with the successful drop. Reason being zerg secured 4 gas while terran only had 2 gas and Zergs drones were all saturated.
Okay, thanks for the quick reply. Also, makes lot of sense (obviously)
EDIT Also thank you BisuDagger for your detailed reply as well.
On December 12 2016 21:59 Levque wrote: Wow, JD just flipped a switch there and completely took over the game. A lesser player would of been rattled after that successful drop that killed all his tech.
Well played by Mong, his games were great.
As someone who never played BW (nor SC2) MP, gotta have noob questions. Did JD win the game or it was rather Mong losing it? I mean, I thought JD was dead when most of his tech got destroyed How did he not die there? How did he managed to get all those ultras, and eventually win the game?
The fourth base was key and I'd say Jaedong won that game.
1. Mong pushed on JD with a 5 rax build. JD defended only losing units. Mong did no damage to JD's bases or economy. 2. Jaedong expanded and got up to 4 gasses. 4gas zerg means defiler and ultra tech are affordable 3. Jaedong's mutas did a great job of denying the left side of the map expansions. 4. Other then the drop inside JD's main, Mong was unable to apply pressure. Even when he lost tech, he was able to just spam fully upgraded zerglings to help control the game. If they spawning pool was picked off, Mong would have been able to make a move on JD. Instead JD just patiently amassed gas while lings kept him alive. Mong needed to also stim in and kill the drones in the main. The evo chamber kills were a big mistake imo. There were much more important buildings/workers to kill. 5. Those later game lurker drops and constant ling attacks allows JD to make a large bank for the cow transition 6. JD then finally took a fifth base while Mong was spending too much poorly defending his own bases.
On December 12 2016 21:59 Levque wrote: Wow, JD just flipped a switch there and completely took over the game. A lesser player would of been rattled after that successful drop that killed all his tech.
Well played by Mong, his games were great.
As someone who never played BW (nor SC2) MP, gotta have noob questions. Did JD win the game or it was rather Mong losing it? I mean, I thought JD was dead when most of his tech got destroyed How did he not die there? How did he managed to get all those ultras, and eventually win the game?
FLash said JD was still way ahead even when with the successful drop. Reason being zerg secured 4 gas while terran only had 2 gas and Zergs drones were all saturated.
Yep, looking back, losing all that tech looked way more devastating than it actually was. I think this was a case of JD winning the game and not Mong losing it. JD also did a great job of denying Mong his third and fourth gas. JD also destroyed the armories and denied Mong from getting his 2-2, which was alread on the way. JD already had 1-2 upgrades before his evos went down irrc.
On December 12 2016 21:59 Levque wrote: Wow, JD just flipped a switch there and completely took over the game. A lesser player would of been rattled after that successful drop that killed all his tech.
Well played by Mong, his games were great.
As someone who never played BW (nor SC2) MP, gotta have noob questions. Did JD win the game or it was rather Mong losing it? I mean, I thought JD was dead when most of his tech got destroyed How did he not die there? How did he managed to get all those ultras, and eventually win the game?
FLash said JD was still way ahead even when with the successful drop. Reason being zerg secured 4 gas while terran only had 2 gas and Zergs drones were all saturated.
Yep, looking back, losing all that tech looked way more devastating than it actually was. I think this was a case of JD winning the game and not Mong losing it. JD also did a great job of denying Mong his third and fourth gas. JD also destroyed the armories and denied Mong from getting his 2-2, which was alread on the way. JD already had 1-2 upgrades before his evos went down irrc.
Yup. But JD's spawning pool only survived by 17hp. Would've interesting to see how close it would've been had the pool gone down, since JD was depending so heavily on lings for much of the game.
Still think JD would've won. But Mong put up a stiff fight, my respect for him has increased.
On December 12 2016 21:59 Levque wrote: Wow, JD just flipped a switch there and completely took over the game. A lesser player would of been rattled after that successful drop that killed all his tech.
Well played by Mong, his games were great.
As someone who never played BW (nor SC2) MP, gotta have noob questions. Did JD win the game or it was rather Mong losing it? I mean, I thought JD was dead when most of his tech got destroyed How did he not die there? How did he managed to get all those ultras, and eventually win the game?
FLash said JD was still way ahead even when with the successful drop. Reason being zerg secured 4 gas while terran only had 2 gas and Zergs drones were all saturated.
Thanks for this insight! It must really look so different from a Pros perspective as to who is ahead or behind at any stage, would love to read more things like this!
Great final game. I was worried when the tech was sniped, and also the brief period of 5 base Terran against 4 base Zerg. But the lurker drops gave him the eco advantage back, and cow drops for the win.
That final game was soooo scrappy! I changed my mind like 5 times guessing who gonna win this... Incredible comeback by JD, he switched his Tyrant mode on by outmultitasking. Mong got really efficient mech army, his multitasking was not bad with multiple drops but I guess he's not mech monster like Light. Definitely 2nd best game of season after Rain. vs. Effort.
Let's hope Dong won't meet Flash in same group. I'm not even gonna judge if they gonna rig brackets to ensure they won't meet until finals
On December 13 2016 04:52 outscar wrote: That final game was soooo scrappy! I changed my mind like 5 times guessing who gonna win this... Incredible comeback by JD, he switched his Tyrant mode on by outmultitasking. Mong got really efficient mech army, his multitasking was not bad with multiple drops but I guess he's not mech monster like Light. Definitely 2nd best game of season after Rain. vs. Effort.
Let's hope Dong won't meet Flash in same group. I'm not even gonna judge if they gonna rig brackets to ensure they won't meet until finals
Flash, Stork, Jaedong, and Bisu should all be in separate groups for the Round of 16, that would be the best 'rigging' in my book... and then they all get through to the Round of 8 for concentrated epicness.
One can hope, anyway. The 'stupid' would be if they put three or four of them in the same group - great play for a day, but not as much as you'd get if you'd spaced them out in different brackets properly.
This fast lurker build with heavy ling commitment seems to be pretty good vs the quick +1 MnM into mech openers terran usually employs.
If you can get the contain out, your in a good spot because the tech of T is so much later. The +1, 5 rax pressure into mech works best if T gets momentum going in the field being cost efficiënt and potentially winning the game outright by denying the third for to long. Against a contain like that 5 rax and +1 dont really matter.
Though against the more old school 3-rax 9 minute vessel timing I would guess it's far inferior to a muta opener. This old school build also has map pressence alot quicker so T can delay the contain by alot.
On December 12 2016 21:48 classicyellow83 wrote: Shuttle: "I gonna put TBLS in the same group. LOL
What method is going to be used to select the ro16 groups? It would be really neat if they brought back something like the msl group selection ceremony.
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