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[ASL] Ro8: Sea vs hero
| Forum Index > Brood War Tournaments |
prech
United States2948 Posts
twitch TV (Tasteless and Artosis) ASL Youtube Channel with both English and Korean Stream | ||
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prech
United States2948 Posts
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bioboyAT
Austria1763 Posts
I am happy with either outcome though! | ||
TheNewEra
Germany3128 Posts
Anyways hoping for Sea. Not sure if I can believe in him tho  | ||
Peeano
Netherlands4891 Posts
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Peeano
Netherlands4891 Posts
On August 16 2016 09:09 TheNewEra wrote: Anyone knows if Tastosis are back? Anyways hoping for Sea. Not sure if I can believe in him tho At the end of the cast, Rapid mentions it is most likely going to be him solo casting once again. Or you could checkout BisuDagger n AmazingXKCD. | ||
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BombiZombie
Russian Federation27 Posts
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FlaShFTW
United States10097 Posts
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Wrath
3174 Posts
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DminusTerran
Canada1337 Posts
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B-royal
Belgium1330 Posts
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NewbOnTheFloor
Poland160 Posts
Do it for Overmind ! | ||
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[sc1f]eonzerg
Belgium6505 Posts
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LaStScan
Korea (South)1289 Posts
On August 16 2016 16:22 [sc1f]eonzerg wrote: Hero smashed flaSh many times.hero 3-1 sea Sea plays mind games better than Flash. We saw Sea won against Hero on Match Point in the last offline match(Hero didn't use lowlat hack) Btw, Hero is gonna use lowlatency hack for better muta performance  This game will be very intense. | ||
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[sc1f]eonzerg
Belgium6505 Posts
On August 16 2016 16:25 LaStScan wrote: Sea plays mind games better than Flash. We saw Sea won against Hero on Match Point in the last offline match(Hero didn't use lowlat hack) Btw, Hero is gonna use lowlatency hack for better muta performance This game will be very intense. I have the feeling that offline sea is not very strong at mind games,but yes i remember he destroyed zero with 8 rax in online tourney. :/ | ||
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iNfeRnaL
Germany1908 Posts
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[sc1f]eonzerg
Belgium6505 Posts
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duke91
Germany1458 Posts
On August 16 2016 16:43 iNfeRnaL wrote: Waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaait what, Tasteless and Artosis casting? For real? sup infernal are u back as well? | ||
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iNfeRnaL
Germany1908 Posts
Wish I was, my monitor is so big I don't see a minimap on it. (regular TV screen used as PC Monitor via HDMI) Maybe Shieldbattery will make life lively again? | ||
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oEkY
Germany648 Posts
seems to be an old clanmate-Meeting Point here btw: Gogo hero! Lets hope for more tvz and less tvt in Ro4! | ||
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iNfeRnaL
Germany1908 Posts
Sup oeky! | ||
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duke91
Germany1458 Posts
On August 16 2016 17:10 iNfeRnaL wrote: Wish I was, my monitor is so big I don't see a minimap on it. (regular TV screen used as PC Monitor via HDMI) Maybe Shieldbattery will make life lively again? windowed mode dude btw, tashadan hat vor ein paar tagen nen thread aufgemacht wo er nach alten ash leuten suchte. Vielleicht hat jemand noch Kontakt zu Saver? | ||
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oEkY
Germany648 Posts
nope, i dont have any contact to anyone from the good old times :/ neither i played bw for approximately 6 years, but this tourney is even though a great thing to watch *cheering for failhoon* Sorry for the off-Topic conversation to all  | ||
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NoS-Craig
Australia3093 Posts
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Wrath
3174 Posts
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iNfeRnaL
Germany1908 Posts
On August 16 2016 18:24 duke91 wrote: windowed mode dude btw, tashadan hat vor ein paar tagen nen thread aufgemacht wo er nach alten ash leuten suchte. Vielleicht hat jemand noch Kontakt zu Saver? Haven't heard of him either! Only three I'm still in touch with are Dissy, Kenzo and KoB! Window mode is like a quarter of my screen, what happens if I scroll out etc too? Never used it for anything but replays or chatting while watching a stream (like now... XD) P.S. Afaik I was in ash. for a very brief period too, that being said I've been in so, so, so many german clans it's fucking unbelieveable. Not even sure if I was in there as Infernal or with a smurf, but I am sure saVer was the reason why I was in there and he knew even if it was me smurfing. | ||
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tanngard
Norway1325 Posts
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sixfour
England11061 Posts
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LongShot27
United States2084 Posts
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tanngard
Norway1325 Posts
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[sc1f]eonzerg
Belgium6505 Posts
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Hall0wed
United States8486 Posts
And Rapid no longer has to solo cast! And he is sick now, probably died after that solo cast. | ||
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NoS-Craig
Australia3093 Posts
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[sc1f]eonzerg
Belgium6505 Posts
open with 9 pool plz,im sure Sea will 8 rax :D | ||
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prOxi.swAMi
Australia3091 Posts
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[sc1f]eonzerg
Belgium6505 Posts
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thopol
Japan4560 Posts
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Sawamura
Malaysia7602 Posts
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tanngard
Norway1325 Posts
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NoS-Craig
Australia3093 Posts
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iNfeRnaL
Germany1908 Posts
Hero is fucked. | ||
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sixfour
England11061 Posts
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iNfeRnaL
Germany1908 Posts
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FlaShFTW
United States10097 Posts
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FlaShFTW
United States10097 Posts
On August 16 2016 19:18 iNfeRnaL wrote: Whoever is Nukethestars... Hero is fucked. nukethestars used to be a very popular starcraft bw caster. he was my personal favorite. | ||
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LongShot27
United States2084 Posts
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NoS-Craig
Australia3093 Posts
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gngfn
United States1726 Posts
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sixfour
England11061 Posts
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Hall0wed
United States8486 Posts
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Wrath
3174 Posts
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Heartland
Sweden24579 Posts
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[sc1f]eonzerg
Belgium6505 Posts
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prOxi.swAMi
Australia3091 Posts
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[sc1f]eonzerg
Belgium6505 Posts
On August 16 2016 19:21 Wrath wrote: Come on, even I don't fuck up this hard. WTF HERO?! dont lie to yourself please | ||
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coolprogrammingstuff
906 Posts
you're mean | ||
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tanngard
Norway1325 Posts
On August 16 2016 19:18 iNfeRnaL wrote: Whoever is Nukethestars... Hero is fucked. Nukethestars was a youtube commentator and creator of BW hype videos. He was the best. | ||
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iNfeRnaL
Germany1908 Posts
On August 16 2016 19:20 FlaShFTW wrote: nukethestars used to be a very popular starcraft bw caster. he was my personal favorite. What did he cast and how long ago was that? I thought I really knew pretty much everything and everyone in the scene... If it was post SC2 era then scratch everything, no clue about that time :D Edit: tangaard beat me to it, never watched Youtube/hype videos, only Korean leagues & TSL, that explains it. tyvm | ||
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thopol
Japan4560 Posts
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sixfour
England11061 Posts
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[sc1f]eonzerg
Belgium6505 Posts
On August 16 2016 19:24 thopol wrote: The old economic opener into don't build drones and go all-in... Hero's timing was off the entire time. If he had gone economic and defended a bust he would have been ahead by a lot. It just didn't make sense that he was so aggressive under the circumstances. The only thing I can think of is that he planned on Sea doing something specific and his plan for the match didn't pan out. no,hero made a build that you can do lair and speed at the same time.he had a very good timing to kill Sea,the only problem here is that Sea made 13 CC so heros build just sux . | ||
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iNfeRnaL
Germany1908 Posts
On August 16 2016 19:26 sixfour wrote: i wonder if he could have focused down the bunker on the first ling attack, he seemed to have a decent enough surround? scv? marines around too? scv+marine brute force even if bunker dies? just no. | ||
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tanngard
Norway1325 Posts
On August 16 2016 19:23 iNfeRnaL wrote: What did he cast and how long ago was that? I thought I really knew pretty much everything and everyone in the scene... If it was post SC2 era then scratch everything, no clue about that time :D Edit: tangaard beat me to it, never watched Youtube/hype videos, only Korean leagues & TSL, that explains it. tyvmHe casted the OSL starting from the one that Stork won in 2008 all the way until the last OSL in 2012. So yeah much of that was post SC2. | ||
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WGT-Baal
France3345 Posts
On August 16 2016 19:23 iNfeRnaL wrote: What did he cast and how long ago was that? I thought I really knew pretty much everything and everyone in the scene... If it was post SC2 era then scratch everything, no clue about that time :D Edit: tangaard beat me to it, never watched Youtube/hype videos, only Korean leagues & TSL, that explains it. tyvmHi Infernal, great to see you post again | ||
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iNfeRnaL
Germany1908 Posts
Yaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa reaaaaaaaaaaaaaaabooooo reaaaaaaaaaaboooooooooooo beats that any day! :D E: sup Baal, been a while, I'd say about 6 years in LA? | ||
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FlaShFTW
United States10097 Posts
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NoS-Craig
Australia3093 Posts
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ortseam
996 Posts
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iNfeRnaL
Germany1908 Posts
On August 16 2016 19:31 NoS-Craig wrote: I thought he was gonna do a contain of some sort and build up his economy. Didn't think he'd go for the bust with just the lings he had. Was way too many lings to just sit and do nothing with it. | ||
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FlaShFTW
United States10097 Posts
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iNfeRnaL
Germany1908 Posts
On August 16 2016 19:33 FlaShFTW wrote: another 2 hatch play from hero which is kinda smart on this map. sea going port for maybe dropship? Wraith then Valk by the looks of it? Very strange build from Sea oO | ||
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ortseam
996 Posts
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iNfeRnaL
Germany1908 Posts
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Heartland
Sweden24579 Posts
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NoS-Craig
Australia3093 Posts
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iNfeRnaL
Germany1908 Posts
e: considering Hero is still 3h 2base... if Sea holds on he might not be in the worst shape ever. | ||
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Heartland
Sweden24579 Posts
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FlaShFTW
United States10097 Posts
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ortseam
996 Posts
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iNfeRnaL
Germany1908 Posts
On August 16 2016 19:39 FlaShFTW wrote: hero isnt expanding behind this. he's all in. god damn it hero expanddddd Exactly what I am thinking, Sea just needs to survive and he's gonna be fine? | ||
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CruelZeratul
Germany4588 Posts
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coolprogrammingstuff
906 Posts
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Miragee
8475 Posts
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NoS-Craig
Australia3093 Posts
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iNfeRnaL
Germany1908 Posts
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Charoisaur
Germany15880 Posts
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coolprogrammingstuff
906 Posts
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ortseam
996 Posts
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Miragee
8475 Posts
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iNfeRnaL
Germany1908 Posts
Seems more like hero found him this game, right? | ||
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FlaShFTW
United States10097 Posts
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[sc1f]eonzerg
Belgium6505 Posts
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Arvendilin
Germany1878 Posts
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prOxi.swAMi
Australia3091 Posts
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iNfeRnaL
Germany1908 Posts
On August 16 2016 19:43 FlaShFTW wrote: damn hero played that well. i should stop talking haha. Why, had Sea held hero would've been in a very unplesant spot. | ||
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Sawamura
Malaysia7602 Posts
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CruelZeratul
Germany4588 Posts
On August 16 2016 19:44 iNfeRnaL wrote: Why, had Sea held hero would've been in a very unplesant spot. It's hard to hold something off without any units. | ||
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FlaShFTW
United States10097 Posts
On August 16 2016 19:44 iNfeRnaL wrote: Why, had Sea held hero would've been in a very unplesant spot. because i wanted hero to expand behind the attack because i thought he wasnt going to break the expo and throw his lead. but i was wrong | ||
BisuDagger
Bisutopia19213 Posts
On August 16 2016 19:40 Miragee wrote: bisudagger/xkcd: If you read this, tune up the volume for xkcd a bit. He is very quiet. Doing a sound check after break. TY! | ||
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iNfeRnaL
Germany1908 Posts
On August 16 2016 19:45 CruelZeratul wrote: It's hard to hold something off without any units. Well let's be fair, Sea was very very unlucky despite the very odd buildorder. That first valk spawning right under the mutas could've changed the whole game. Imagine it spawns like 3 sec earlier and he get's scv's under it to repair... | ||
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RKC
2848 Posts
What was his plan? | ||
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iNfeRnaL
Germany1908 Posts
On August 16 2016 19:47 FlaShFTW wrote: because i wanted hero to expand behind the attack because i thought he wasnt going to break the expo and throw his lead. but i was wrong He still went all in. Could've atlaeast made those hatches on expansion locations, still keep producing units but have a backup plan in case Sea holds... | ||
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WGT-Baal
France3345 Posts
On August 16 2016 19:31 iNfeRnaL wrote: Eh, well, restreams... pffft. Yaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa reaaaaaaaaaaaaaaabooooo reaaaaaaaaaaboooooooooooo beats that any day! :D E: sup Baal, been a while, I'd say about 6 years in LA? That s about right Blizzard announced a bw update. They ll give more details next month. Perhaps you ll be able to play on your T V. | ||
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oEkY
Germany648 Posts
Anyway, both of them wont have any chances beating sharp next round if they play like this I guess :& | ||
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Penev
28453 Posts
I sabotage myself :/ | ||
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iNfeRnaL
Germany1908 Posts
On August 16 2016 19:50 WGT-Baal wrote: That s about right Blizzard announced a bw update. They ll give more details next month. Perhaps you ll be able to play on your T V. I read that but as mentioned in the comment you must've read, Shieldbattery is what I hope for. Doesn't mean I wouldn't be glad if Blizz does fix it first, I just have my doubts after all these years )offtopic: How r you doing old mate? | ||
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Miragee
8475 Posts
Thanks, sounds good now! | ||
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prOxi.swAMi
Australia3091 Posts
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WGT-Baal
France3345 Posts
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iNfeRnaL
Germany1908 Posts
On August 16 2016 19:50 oEkY wrote: Hm... hero sucked in first game and sea did a horrible decision in the second game when he took the backdoor-expansion... hopefully we'll get to see a good game of both of them in the third one! Anyway, both of them wont have any chances beating sharp next round if they play like this I guess :& Both have been Sea/hero trying to mindgame the other one and both failed horribly. Odds are good for standard play now | ||
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NoS-Craig
Australia3093 Posts
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iNfeRnaL
Germany1908 Posts
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BigFan
TLADT24920 Posts
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duke91
Germany1458 Posts
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[sc1f]eonzerg
Belgium6505 Posts
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NoS-Craig
Australia3093 Posts
On August 16 2016 19:54 iNfeRnaL wrote: Craig took the shit hero deserves. Damn that gave me a good laugh. Let's go Hero I took a massive one to watch you win again. | ||
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iNfeRnaL
Germany1908 Posts
On August 16 2016 19:58 NoS-Craig wrote: Damn that gave me a good laugh. Let's go Hero I took a massive one to watch you win again. I've got my moments. ^^ This LR thread feels very, very "back then" too! | ||
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oEkY
Germany648 Posts
On August 16 2016 19:51 Penev wrote: The more I learn about BW the more I suck at BW liquibets I sabotage myself :/ What is liquibets? | ||
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iNfeRnaL
Germany1908 Posts
You can bet on progames for fun / glory. Been there since like years tho. On topic: nice push by Sea very good timing | ||
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ortseam
996 Posts
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iNfeRnaL
Germany1908 Posts
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NoS-Craig
Australia3093 Posts
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nojok
France15845 Posts
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iNfeRnaL
Germany1908 Posts
Problem is Sea is 3 base and hero is not. | ||
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oEkY
Germany648 Posts
On August 16 2016 20:02 iNfeRnaL wrote: You can bet on progames for fun / glory. Been there since like years tho. got a link to that? | ||
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duke91
Germany1458 Posts
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iNfeRnaL
Germany1908 Posts
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BigFan
TLADT24920 Posts
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FlaShFTW
United States10097 Posts
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thopol
Japan4560 Posts
On August 16 2016 20:03 iNfeRnaL wrote: Dealt with the drop well tho. Problem is Sea is 3 base and hero is not. That's the key point. Huge advantage. Hero needs to make up ground so Sea just needs to be reasonably safe. | ||
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nojok
France15845 Posts
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iNfeRnaL
Germany1908 Posts
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iNfeRnaL
Germany1908 Posts
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NoS-Craig
Australia3093 Posts
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oEkY
Germany648 Posts
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Arvendilin
Germany1878 Posts
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FlaShFTW
United States10097 Posts
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iNfeRnaL
Germany1908 Posts
On August 16 2016 20:06 NoS-Craig wrote: Damn I just feel like Sea is on top at the moment. If he just had those lurkers earlier. You mean hero, right? And no, he's not. Not even with those 2 Vessels lost, like by far far far faaaaaaaaaaaaar not. ^^ | ||
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iNfeRnaL
Germany1908 Posts
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Miragee
8475 Posts
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NoS-Craig
Australia3093 Posts
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BigFan
TLADT24920 Posts
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nojok
France15845 Posts
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iNfeRnaL
Germany1908 Posts
e: Hero being desperate with those 10 Mutas. | ||
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FlaShFTW
United States10097 Posts
i think hero lost when he delayed his hydra tech and lost his 3rd. | ||
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Miragee
8475 Posts
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iNfeRnaL
Germany1908 Posts
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NoS-Craig
Australia3093 Posts
On August 16 2016 20:07 iNfeRnaL wrote: You mean hero, right? And no, he's not. Not even with those 2 Vessels lost, like by far far far faaaaaaaaaaaaar not. ^^ Yer sorry I was just trying to post real quick I mucked up. Also nice little mine drag there on the bottom right. | ||
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iNfeRnaL
Germany1908 Posts
Would've been so so disappointing to watch my first series in years and see him lose. | ||
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nojok
France15845 Posts
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BigFan
TLADT24920 Posts
On August 16 2016 20:11 Miragee wrote: lol, fuck anti air. Just irradiate everything. lol. Sea knew he was so far ahead that he'll irridiate all air units | ||
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NoS-Craig
Australia3093 Posts
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duke91
Germany1458 Posts
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thopol
Japan4560 Posts
Perhaps he could have delayed a bit more with the mutas. Or if he didn't waste so many lings and could use them for some kind of flank while he was delaying for lurkers. I'm sure he knows what he should have done, but Sea really just knew what to do in that set. | ||
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opisska
Poland8852 Posts
Was this a good game? It looks fun, but Hero was really behind most of the time, right? Is this map Zerg disfavored? It seems hard to take bases - is Zerg supposed to be ahead of the Terran in base count in BW? | ||
BLinD-RawR
ALLEYCAT BLUES49973 Posts
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Clonester
Germany2808 Posts
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coolprogrammingstuff
906 Posts
On August 16 2016 19:51 Penev wrote: The more I learn about BW the more I suck at BW liquibets I sabotage myself :/ honestly seems so sloppy compared to 2011, much harder to predict because of it. | ||
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coolprogrammingstuff
906 Posts
top left next to the log out button. Left one is BW, right is SC2 | ||
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iNfeRnaL
Germany1908 Posts
On August 16 2016 20:15 BigFan wrote: lol. Sea knew he was so far ahead that he'll irridiate all air units Nah he's just human after all, he didn't expect muta switch while dealing with lurk/ling/swarm but knowing the game, it's not really possible to do a switch dangerous enough to mech while being on lurk/ling/swarm, yea... E: I already told him that with LB! Forgot to quote him tho | ||
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FlaShFTW
United States10097 Posts
On August 16 2016 20:17 opisska wrote: Hi guys, are you willing to educate someone who never watched competitive BW? I played for a couple of years, so I know what the units and abilities are, but have no idea about how real games are supposed to go. Was this a good game? It looks fun, but Hero was really behind most of the time, right? Is this map Zerg disfavored? It seems hard to take bases - is Zerg supposed to be ahead of the Terran in base count in BW? It was a decent game up until hero forgot to get lurkers like a moron and lost his 3rd. after that he was way too far behind. the map is kinda even though maybe a bit T favored. And Zerg needs to reach 4 gas to be competitive in this meta of TvZ, and hero failed to do that especially after his failed 3rd base. | ||
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coolprogrammingstuff
906 Posts
On August 16 2016 20:14 iNfeRnaL wrote: Thank god Sea's winning. Would've been so so disappointing to watch my first series in years and see him lose. Gotta root against your mate, sorry. Or else there's 3 terran in the semis. And there's only 1 zerg and 2 protoss in the quarters. | ||
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opisska
Poland8852 Posts
On August 16 2016 20:22 FlaShFTW wrote: It was a decent game up until hero forgot to get lurkers like a moron and lost his 3rd. after that he was way too far behind. the map is kinda even though maybe a bit T favored. And Zerg needs to reach 4 gas to be competitive in this meta of TvZ, and hero failed to do that especially after his failed 3rd base. So the two lurkers on the ramp Wolf was raving about would have really held all that bio? | ||
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duke91
Germany1458 Posts
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coolprogrammingstuff
906 Posts
On August 16 2016 20:23 opisska wrote: So the two lurkers on the ramp Wolf was raving about would have really held all that bio? easily, unless there's a tank or a vessel. | ||
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NoS-Craig
Australia3093 Posts
(I tech switched to a number 1 this time Infernal, hopefully it helps Hero win) | ||
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thopol
Japan4560 Posts
On August 16 2016 20:17 opisska wrote: Hi guys, are you willing to educate someone who never watched competitive BW? I played for a couple of years, so I know what the units and abilities are, but have no idea about how real games are supposed to go. Was this a good game? It looks fun, but Hero was really behind most of the time, right? Is this map Zerg disfavored? It seems hard to take bases - is Zerg supposed to be ahead of the Terran in base count in BW? Good game? Not really. Sea took out Hero's third with a timing and Hero could never recover. The map? I think it might be a little terran favored in the matchup but it's new so I (as someone who doesn't play) don't know how it's really going to shake out. Zerg ahead in bases? Yes. They should be ahead in bases usually in both matchups. | ||
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goddamndell
14 Posts
On August 16 2016 20:23 opisska wrote: So the two lurkers on the ramp Wolf was raving about would have really held all that bio? Yep. Marines have a miss chance unless they actually get up the ramp. Two lurkers instantly kill marines with no armour upgrades. Combine that with mutalisks/zerglings to block and the terran is not getting up that ramp unless the terran is destroying you or the terran has tanks/vessels/dropships. | ||
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BigFan
TLADT24920 Posts
On August 16 2016 20:22 iNfeRnaL wrote: Nah he's just human after all, he didn't expect muta switch while dealing with lurk/ling/swarm but knowing the game, it's not really possible to do a switch dangerous enough to mech while being on lurk/ling/swarm, yea... E: I already told him that with LB! Forgot to quote him tho ya, I was making a joke ^^ Sea was way too far ahead to lose that and had turrets all over too. On August 16 2016 20:23 opisska wrote: So the two lurkers on the ramp Wolf was raving about would have really held all that bio? yes, two lurkers on a ramp can hold endless bio because the units will walk straight up and get shredded (before tanks/vessels upset that). Hopefully this next game demonstrates that much better | ||
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NoS-Craig
Australia3093 Posts
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opisska
Poland8852 Posts
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coolprogrammingstuff
906 Posts
On August 16 2016 20:27 NoS-Craig wrote: Are there any small glitches you're not allowed to use in BW tourneys at all? I know there were. Don't know them, but there are. edit: http://wiki.teamliquid.net/starcraft/Competitive_Rules | ||
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thopol
Japan4560 Posts
On August 16 2016 20:27 NoS-Craig wrote: Are there any small glitches you're not allowed to use in BW tourneys at all? Just off hand I can remember the go.go scv trick that got banned after he used it. | ||
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iNfeRnaL
Germany1908 Posts
On August 16 2016 20:22 coolprogrammingstuff wrote: Gotta root against your mate, sorry. Or else there's 3 terran in the semis. And there's only 1 zerg and 2 protoss in the quarters. I feel you on the racial balance point of view, but Sea has been a good friend of mine, so personally I hardly have a choice here | ||
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NoS-Craig
Australia3093 Posts
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BigFan
TLADT24920 Posts
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iNfeRnaL
Germany1908 Posts
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ortseam
996 Posts
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iNfeRnaL
Germany1908 Posts
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duke91
Germany1458 Posts
On August 16 2016 20:33 iNfeRnaL wrote: Not that sure if it was worth it, despite what the casters are saying... Worth it since zerg can now outmacro terran now. Hero is ahead IMO | ||
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iNfeRnaL
Germany1908 Posts
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FlaShFTW
United States10097 Posts
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[sc1f]eonzerg
Belgium6505 Posts
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NoS-Craig
Australia3093 Posts
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iNfeRnaL
Germany1908 Posts
Not really on top of this game... | ||
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FlaShFTW
United States10097 Posts
On August 16 2016 20:35 [sc1f]eonzerg wrote: game 5 gonna be so intense DONT JINX IT | ||
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ortseam
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thopol
Japan4560 Posts
On August 16 2016 20:34 iNfeRnaL wrote: By now it is evident that Hero is overcommiting the counters, that second one now was completely useless tbh. I think Hero is winning but I agree that it looks like he's countering prematurely and wasting units. Or at least he's done that a couple times. | ||
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FlaShFTW
United States10097 Posts
On August 16 2016 20:36 thopol wrote: I think Hero is winning but I agree that it looks like he's countering prematurely and wasting units. Or at least he's done that a couple times. i disagree. he savved a few lings and a lurker to set up a free 4th. was completely worth it. | ||
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BigFan
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sixfour
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iNfeRnaL
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On August 16 2016 20:36 thopol wrote: I think Hero is winning but I agree that it looks like he's countering prematurely and wasting units. Or at least he's done that a couple times. Considering how sloppy Sea is playing this time around, he should be way more ahead than he is. Sea is still in this game if he stops the sloppyness/nervousness | ||
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duke91
Germany1458 Posts
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iNfeRnaL
Germany1908 Posts
Still that shit is really, really annoying as Terran. | ||
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nojok
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duke91
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sixfour
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iNfeRnaL
Germany1908 Posts
Go Sea, take game 5! | ||
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duke91
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sixfour
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iNfeRnaL
Germany1908 Posts
On August 16 2016 20:43 duke91 wrote: Sloppy play by Hero. Fortunate he made it. Reminded me of the style Jaedong had vs Flash two weeks ago Even more sloppy by Sea, wasn't it? That game was the worst of the series so far. Yes, games 1 & 2 were short, but not as poorly executed. | ||
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thopol
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oEkY
Germany648 Posts
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FlaShFTW
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On August 16 2016 20:44 CruelZeratul wrote: Why not just Goliath/Vulture Vessel? You can even Irradiate the Goliaths/Vultures at the front. becuase goliaths suck shit against ling ultra. you NEED tanks against ultras in the mech switch. hero just got ultras out at 14 minutes which is why he got off the ground early. | ||
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coolprogrammingstuff
906 Posts
On August 16 2016 20:44 iNfeRnaL wrote: Even more sloppy by Sea, wasn't it? That game was the worst of the series so far. Yes, games 1 & 2 were short, but not as poorly executed. welcome to post kespa bw | ||
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feckless
1099 Posts
On August 16 2016 20:44 iNfeRnaL wrote: Even more sloppy by Sea, wasn't it? That game was the worst of the series so far. Yes, games 1 & 2 were short, but not as poorly executed. Did we watch the same games? | ||
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BigFan
TLADT24920 Posts
On August 16 2016 20:44 iNfeRnaL wrote: Even more sloppy by Sea, wasn't it? That game was the worst of the series so far. Yes, games 1 & 2 were short, but not as poorly executed. feels like Sea didn't pressure hero much aside from bits here and there unlike game 3. | ||
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CruelZeratul
Germany4588 Posts
On August 16 2016 20:45 FlaShFTW wrote: becuase goliaths suck shit against ling ultra. you NEED tanks against ultras in the mech switch. hero just got ultras out at 14 minutes which is why he got off the ground early. Irradiate all of them? *edit: I thought Irradiate always kills, but it doesn't nvm! | ||
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[sc1f]eonzerg
Belgium6505 Posts
i was going to say this,for me that was the best of the series so far lol... | ||
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Wrath
3174 Posts
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coolprogrammingstuff
906 Posts
On August 16 2016 20:47 Wrath wrote: How did game 4 end? was away killed all the tanks, gg | ||
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[sc1f]eonzerg
Belgium6505 Posts
On August 16 2016 20:46 BigFan wrote: feels like Sea didn't pressure hero much aside from bits here and there unlike game 3. no sh*t Pedro game 3 Sea was miles ahead.this time game was even. | ||
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FlaShFTW
United States10097 Posts
game 1 was terrible. game 2 was a great game and nail biting and well played from both. | ||
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ortseam
996 Posts
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BigFan
TLADT24920 Posts
On August 16 2016 20:48 [sc1f]eonzerg wrote: no sh*t Pedro game 3 Sea was miles ahead.this time game was even. lol but I think that's also because hero was pretty solid in his defense overall (and sea got that good timing in the previous game) | ||
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feckless
1099 Posts
On August 16 2016 20:48 FlaShFTW wrote: game 1 was terrible. game 2 was a great game and nail biting and well played from both. Game 2 was... interesting. But Sea played a very strange game. It wasn't that great. | ||
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Wrath
3174 Posts
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Miragee
8475 Posts
On August 16 2016 20:22 iNfeRnaL wrote: Nah he's just human after all, he didn't expect muta switch while dealing with lurk/ling/swarm but knowing the game, it's not really possible to do a switch dangerous enough to mech while being on lurk/ling/swarm, yea... E: I already told him that with LB! Forgot to quote him tho Well the switch is doable if the terran doesn't have goliaths and the zerg is a little ahead overall. It's not possible if the zerg is that far behind... | ||
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FlaShFTW
United States10097 Posts
On August 16 2016 20:50 feckless wrote: Game 2 was... interesting. But Sea played a very strange game. It wasn't that great. eh, sea's build was kinda wonky but the game overall was pretty well played. | ||
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iNfeRnaL
Germany1908 Posts
Game 1 Hero did a buildorder snipe (and happened to catch Sea doing a different buildorder, fail.) Game 2 Sea did a Valk/m&m hybrid and gets his first valk sniped which is just simply bad luck. Game 3 Sea had great timing. Game 4 Sea and Hero both being sloppy. Did we see the same games? | ||
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BigFan
TLADT24920 Posts
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NeonFlare
Finland1307 Posts
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duke91
Germany1458 Posts
On August 16 2016 20:49 ortseam wrote: Hero wasn't really sloppy imo, every aggressive move put some pressure and killed SCVs, while allowing him very fast ultraling defiler (due to Sea pulling back every time) The massive drop did in the mid was sloppy as fuck. He should have multipronged dropped more instead of a single doomdrop going through the fucking mid. Maybe I am biased against sloppy zerg play since it's my main. But he won because Sea did not defend well initially against the lurkers muta ling backstab, which costed him the momentum to mech transition. Sea also did not build enough turrets against drops. This is also what Flash initially when he came back did alot: greedy mass outexpand a zerg. Both did play somewhat sloppy | ||
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NoS-Craig
Australia3093 Posts
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[sc1f]eonzerg
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ortseam
996 Posts
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BigFan
TLADT24920 Posts
On August 16 2016 20:52 [sc1f]eonzerg wrote: this f*cker going 8 rax ..... as predicted | ||
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FlaShFTW
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duke91
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FlaShFTW
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FlaShFTW
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Miragee
8475 Posts
On August 16 2016 20:50 Wrath wrote: herO vs FS.... GOGO HERO!!! I'm still amazed how much the meta game changed after professional broodwar stopped. During that time FS was considered to be the most balanced map ever. TL even wrote a big article about it. I personally loved watching it and playing it as zerg. Nowadays it's frowned upon as unbalanced, ZvT hell etc. | ||
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duke91
Germany1458 Posts
JULY | ||
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[sc1f]eonzerg
Belgium6505 Posts
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lestye
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iNfeRnaL
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Miragee
8475 Posts
On August 16 2016 20:55 [sc1f]eonzerg wrote: F*CK YOU RUSHER!!!! lol | ||
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Scaramanga
Australia8090 Posts
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ortseam
996 Posts
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FlaShFTW
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Miragee
8475 Posts
On August 16 2016 20:56 ortseam wrote: Rofl Sea can still just 1 rax CC What did you expect? Hero was mining with like 4-5 drones this whole time. | ||
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BigFan
TLADT24920 Posts
On August 16 2016 20:57 Scaramanga wrote: Hero doesn't have many drones though, this is recoverable for sea definitely. Should just ling all in | ||
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feckless
1099 Posts
On August 16 2016 20:52 iNfeRnaL wrote: Game 1 Hero did a buildorder snipe (and happened to catch Sea doing a different buildorder, fail.) Game 2 Sea did a Valk/m&m hybrid and gets his first valk sniped which is just simply bad luck. Game 3 Sea had great timing. Game 4 Sea and Hero both being sloppy. Did we see the same games? How were they playing sloppy in the fourth game? Please explain. Because you haven't yet. I like how you describe the games as if from Sea's point-of-view. So let's look at game 4 from hero's perspective. hero's troop movements were much better. His mutalisk control was better, as was his zergling control (the first three games he kept tossing zerglings to no effect), and the backstabs. His troop movements were crisper. These things bought him time. Even the second backstab, where he lost some zerglings, forced Terran army back, while retreating most of his lurkers intact to buy time. He exploited Terran mentality. Sea wasn't allowed to put the same amount of pressure on as the third game, nor was he allowed a great timing attack. Oh, and the final break from hero? Yeah, that was real sloppy. | ||
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FlaShFTW
United States10097 Posts
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ortseam
996 Posts
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FlaShFTW
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iNfeRnaL
Germany1908 Posts
On August 16 2016 20:57 feckless wrote: How were they playing sloppy in the fourth game? Please explain. Because you haven't yet. I like how you describe the games as if from Sea's point-of-view. So let's look at game 4 from hero's perspective. hero's troop movements were much better. His mutalisk control was better, as was his zergling control (the first three games he kept tossing zerglings to no effect), and the backstabs. His troop movements were crisper. These things bought him time. Even the second backstab, where he lost some zerglings, forced Terran army back, while retreating most of his lurkers intact to buy time. He exploited Terran mentality. Sea wasn't allowed to put the same amount of pressure on as the third game, nor was he allowed a great timing attack. Oh, and the final break from hero? Yeah, that was real sloppy. It was less sloppy from Hero in game 4 but I thought the second counter was waste, also he expanded "slowly" considering his advantage etc. I was more trying to defend the other games to be honest because game 1 & 2 while short, were rather crisp imo. | ||
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FlaShFTW
United States10097 Posts
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duke91
Germany1458 Posts
You are not Jaedong edit: wtf are you doing Crazy zerg? | ||
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[sc1f]eonzerg
Belgium6505 Posts
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coolprogrammingstuff
906 Posts
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duke91
Germany1458 Posts
On August 16 2016 21:02 coolprogrammingstuff wrote: i think he forgot his hydra den no he tried to go Crazyzerg, but got nervous I guess edit: I know now what he is doing. He is doing the SIGAMARI build Hydra + guardians | ||
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FlaShFTW
United States10097 Posts
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iNfeRnaL
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BigFan
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thopol
Japan4560 Posts
On August 16 2016 21:04 iNfeRnaL wrote: Wtf how is Sea winning this suddenly? No, but Hero is trying his best to make that happen. | ||
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NoS-Craig
Australia3093 Posts
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FlaShFTW
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[sc1f]eonzerg
Belgium6505 Posts
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Miragee
8475 Posts
On August 16 2016 21:04 iNfeRnaL wrote: Wtf how is Sea winning this suddenly? How is this suddenly? | ||
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feckless
1099 Posts
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prOxi.swAMi
Australia3091 Posts
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nojok
France15845 Posts
On August 16 2016 21:06 FlaShFTW wrote: YES CLUTCH GUARDIANS Only 2 minutes late. | ||
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BigFan
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ortseam
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NewbOnTheFloor
Poland160 Posts
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Wrath
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Liquid`Zephyr
United States996 Posts
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reminisce12
Australia318 Posts
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sixfour
England11061 Posts
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thopol
Japan4560 Posts
Sea deserved that. Well done. | ||
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iNfeRnaL
Germany1908 Posts
*bows down* | ||
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NoS-Craig
Australia3093 Posts
I thought Hero had that game. | ||
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_Animus_
Bulgaria1064 Posts
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Miragee
8475 Posts
On August 16 2016 21:08 FlaShFTW wrote: gg... ugh hero... you threw the gameeeee Yeah a little bit. But he was never that far ahead anyways. | ||
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Penev
28453 Posts
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duke91
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ScarletTempest
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FlaShFTW
United States10097 Posts
On August 16 2016 21:09 Miragee wrote: Yeah a little bit. But he was never that far ahead anyways. no, if he went and killed the vessel army it would have been gg right there. he would deny the 3rd from sea and take his own 4th. thats over right there. instead he threw away all his lings and let the tanks seige in front. | ||
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nojok
France15845 Posts
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okum
France5778 Posts
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FlaShFTW
United States10097 Posts
On August 16 2016 21:11 nojok wrote: You don't want to lose your first defiler like that and the poor lurkers trying to get past the sunken wall. It was more a game about mistakes than clutch plays. Extremely fun to watch though. That guardian rush lol "rush" god im so pissed HERO WHY YOU HAD THAT GAMEEEEE | ||
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[sc1f]eonzerg
Belgium6505 Posts
On August 16 2016 21:10 ScarletTempest wrote: Hero obviously never listened to Artosis "When you are ahead get further ahead" ^^ He completely dropped that. hero wasnt ahead.he just hold the 8 rax rush in a situation that was 85% gg | ||
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Sawamura
Malaysia7602 Posts
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BigFan
TLADT24920 Posts
On August 16 2016 21:10 FlaShFTW wrote: no, if he went and killed the vessel army it would have been gg right there. he would deny the 3rd from sea and take his own 4th. thats over right there. instead he threw away all his lings and let the tanks seige in front. I think he anticipated that he'll be able to do eco damage while his sunkens+lurkers can hold but likely didn't consider his lurkers won't finish on time. | ||
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Arvendilin
Germany1878 Posts
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FlaShFTW
United States10097 Posts
On August 16 2016 21:11 [sc1f]eonzerg wrote: hero wasnt ahead.he just hold the 8 rax rush in a situation that was 85% gg if he kills that terran army in front, he would be very far ahead. his army count was much higher and instead he threw his units away at sea's natural. he could have stopped sea's 3rd and taken a 4th behind his army advantage. instead he sucked. | ||
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opisska
Poland8852 Posts
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feckless
1099 Posts
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[sc1f]eonzerg
Belgium6505 Posts
On August 16 2016 21:12 FlaShFTW wrote: if he kills that terran army in front, he would be very far ahead. his army count was much higher and instead he threw his units away at sea's natural. he could have stopped sea's 3rd and taken a 4th behind his army advantage. instead he sucked. we are talking about lings 0-0 | ||
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FlaShFTW
United States10097 Posts
On August 16 2016 21:13 opisska wrote: Is that guardian rush a legit strategy? Seems pretty weak with little of other army, I would imagine guardians to be more of a late game siege breaker than to morph a couple of them in the middle of a map. it's like a crazy hydra style 2 base mass muta into guardians while taking a 3rd behind it. it does work when the terran is behind on tech and marines and if you space your guardians out so irradiate doesnt completely fuck you, you can do a ton of economic damage. | ||
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NoS-Craig
Australia3093 Posts
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duke91
Germany1458 Posts
On August 16 2016 21:13 opisska wrote: Is that guardian rush a legit strategy? Seems pretty weak with little of other army, I would imagine guardians to be more of a late game siege breaker than to morph a couple of them in the middle of a map. It's legit if you get your timings right. Effort does it all the time, but he gets defilers usually earlier and is better in defensive style IMO. | ||
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[sc1f]eonzerg
Belgium6505 Posts
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Miragee
8475 Posts
On August 16 2016 21:12 FlaShFTW wrote: if he kills that terran army in front, he would be very far ahead. his army count was much higher and instead he threw his units away at sea's natural. he could have stopped sea's 3rd and taken a 4th behind his army advantage. instead he sucked. The third of sea came at a point where sea was already a good bit ahead. Which terran army "in front" are you talking about btw.? | ||
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thopol
Japan4560 Posts
Looking forward to Shuttle's 3-0 this weekend. See you guys next time. | ||
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FlaShFTW
United States10097 Posts
he had a control group of muta with another control group of ling vs 2 tanks, control group of marines, 2 medics, and one irradiate. if he had the lurkers morphing while stalling the army, he wins while pumping lings out. | ||
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Miragee
8475 Posts
On August 16 2016 21:15 [sc1f]eonzerg wrote: anyway i think the drop was checkmate here Yeah the first drop was quite important and the second one was checkmate. | ||
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oEkY
Germany648 Posts
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NoS-Craig
Australia3093 Posts
On August 16 2016 21:15 [sc1f]eonzerg wrote: anyway i think the drop was checkmate here Yer that Drone massacre made my heart drop. I so thought Hero had this game after the failed bunker rush. | ||
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nojok
France15845 Posts
On August 16 2016 21:16 Miragee wrote: Yeah the first drop was quite important and the second one was checkmate. I think it's more about the drops making hero panic than the actual damage. | ||
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[sc1f]eonzerg
Belgium6505 Posts
On August 16 2016 21:15 FlaShFTW wrote: he had a control group of muta with another control group of ling vs 2 tanks, control group of marines, 2 medics, and one irradiate. if he had the lurkers morphing while stalling the army, he wins while pumping lings out. is very hard to win any battle without a +1 ground,lurks just die so ez,lings no even hit they are already dead. | ||
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Wrath
3174 Posts
On August 16 2016 21:16 oEkY wrote: So we'll get to see another TvT in Ro4 TvT finals... | ||
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Ciryandor
United States3735 Posts
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feckless
1099 Posts
On August 16 2016 21:16 oEkY wrote: So we'll get to see another TvT in Ro4 There's only one TvT in RO4. One Protoss has to move up. Gotta root for one of the Tossers... Or Last. | ||
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Peeano
Netherlands4891 Posts
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FlaShFTW
United States10097 Posts
On August 16 2016 21:20 Ciryandor wrote: Both sides were rattled as hell. Hero couldn't snipe vessels for the life of him and Sea couldn't micro marines early on. Better control, not even strategic decisions, would have resulted in a decisive win for either player this game. Sloppy Game 5 brought to you by nerves. he had some good vessel snipes in game 4 which led him to victory. game 3 he had some as well but it was too little too late. game 2 he has a ton of valk snipes which were effectively vessels | ||
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Miragee
8475 Posts
On August 16 2016 21:18 nojok wrote: I think it's more about the drops making hero panic than the actual damage. Well, losing all your drones in your main while your third is barely mining is pretty severe damage against a 2 base terran. Losing your third shortly after that is something you most likely can't recover from. | ||
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FlaShFTW
United States10097 Posts
5-6 damaged mutas, 12 lings (we'll assume he lost a few lings from dancing), 2 lurkers and a defiler with consume and lings on the way and 3 more lurkers. consume at this point would be done, he can consume some lings that are being made or drones if he has to, sandwiches sea's army between muta/ling and 2 lurkers with lings and swarm. he wins that fight, mutas target down the vessel as it runs away, with his left over units, he runs top right and defends the 3rd. yes he loses drones, but whats important is that he saves the hatch and can try to power drone behind his army advantage. he also lost another whole control group of lings to the 4 marines in top right after he lost his 3rd, which again could have been used for map pressure with the leftover units. note now he's going to be at about 5 lurkers, good amount of lings, defiler with swarm, and maybe a muta or two if hes lucky. he has map control, he can power drone and grab a 4th and transition to ultras, and from there he can win the game. sea's mech switch was very weak (not enough map control for his vultures to take effect) and hero would replay out game 4 in a similar manner. | ||
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[sc1f]eonzerg
Belgium6505 Posts
On August 16 2016 21:31 FlaShFTW wrote: ok so looking back at the critical moment, he had 6-7 +1 attack mutas (cant tell how many), like 15-16 lings 0-0, vs 12 +1 attack marines, 1 medic, 2 tanks, 1 vessel with probably one irradiate at most. he has lurkers morphing which literally pop out seconds after sea's force hits the natural with defiler coming from the 3rd. so IF hero attacks the army lets say while the army is still in the middle of the map just before the bridge, and does a dance to try to stall and baits an irradiate from a vessel on his mutas, the fight then looks like this: 5-6 damaged mutas, 12 lings (we'll assume he lost a few lings from dancing), 2 lurkers and a defiler with consume and lings on the way and 3 more lurkers. consume at this point would be done, he can consume some lings that are being made or drones if he has to, sandwiches sea's army between muta/ling and 2 lurkers with lings and swarm. he wins that fight, mutas target down the vessel as it runs away, with his left over units, he runs top right and defends the 3rd. yes he loses drones, but whats important is that he saves the hatch and can try to power drone behind his army advantage. he also lost another whole control group of lings to the 4 marines in top right after he lost his 3rd, which again could have been used for map pressure with the leftover units. note now he's going to be at about 5 lurkers, good amount of lings, defiler with swarm, and maybe a muta or two if hes lucky. he has map control, he can power drone and grab a 4th and transition to ultras, and from there he can win the game. sea's mech switch was very weak (not enough map control for his vultures to take effect) and hero would replay out game 4 in a similar manner. nope,the only scary from hero was muta +1,and we didnt know exactly how far was consume to be done,and why hero didnt made 2 defilers knowing that in most of cases 1 of your defilers will be irradiated ?hero eco was terrible after the drop,no only that hero eco was bad already before,he keep making mutas and the damage wasnt that great,he killed 2 3 armies of marines lossing mutas,is never a good exchange.this is from what i remember,i will need to watch the vod again since i was missing details from posting here.from what i recall hero third hatchery started after lair,very late,is never a good thing.and im not sure but in the time where Sea was doing the big push he was 1-1 already ? i didnt look. | ||
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iNfeRnaL
Germany1908 Posts
On August 16 2016 21:13 feckless wrote: Now that was sloppy play... I think this time we can agree. | ||
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NoS-Craig
Australia3093 Posts
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Wrath
3174 Posts
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RKC
2848 Posts
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oEkY
Germany648 Posts
On August 16 2016 21:21 feckless wrote: There's only one TvT in RO4. One Protoss has to move up. Gotta root for one of the Tossers... Or Last. with "another" i meant that we've already seen too many of them in this tourney imo. And in fact there will be one more in finals or in the game for 3rd place, thats pretty annoying :/ | ||
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Epithet
United States840 Posts
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BisuDagger
Bisutopia19213 Posts
On August 16 2016 21:47 NoS-Craig wrote: Well that's another Liquidbet down the drain. Can't wait to start a new season! | ||
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royalroadweed
United States8301 Posts
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_Animus_
Bulgaria1064 Posts
Dont worry Shuttle will win it all. | ||
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Peeano
Netherlands4891 Posts
I wanna believe this is true. Shuttle can display very high level skill. | ||
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iamho
United States3347 Posts
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Peeano
Netherlands4891 Posts
On August 16 2016 23:50 iamho wrote: remove FS from the map pool please I hope this is the last time we will ever see it on a tourney, same for CB. They're long past getting stale imho. We are in dire need of new maps (that have actually been balance tested properly). I'd love to see a future tourney with a 2 player map, a 3 player map, 2 4 player maps and a 3 player island map. It's a dream of mine to see island maps flourish in BW and become something solid. | ||
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[sc1f]eonzerg
Belgium6505 Posts
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outscar
2832 Posts
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REDBLUEGREEN
Germany1903 Posts
![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/fEKNJ3B.jpg) | ||
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B-royal
Belgium1330 Posts
Contrary to what the idiotic casters were indicating, he started out massively behind after the bunker rush. He had 6 drones left! Then he was stuck with 12 lings and did manage to get 6 SCVs because of Sea's sloppy micro (could have reduced that number to 4). In the meantime hero has lost all map control again and sea has an SCV in his base scouting. Hero's third hatch was only halfway done when his spire finished due to his horrible economy. Unfortunately hero then places down 4 sunkens, positioned in such a way which will come back to bite him in the back later in the game. It is not easy to predict what terran will do and having sunkens finish even a second or two too late can mean the end of game. By overinvesting into sunkens his 3rd base is delayed. He also overinvests into mutas and delays his lurkers too long. Everything is just downhill from here on with a poorly judged counterattack allowing terran to take out his sunkens and 2 lurkers cause they were stuck. | ||
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RKC
2848 Posts
After that, Hero made some questionable judgments - pumping too many mutas (delaying his tech and allowing Sea to stabilise further), delaying the 3rd (and nearly lost it if not of Sea's hesitation) and switching to guardians too quick (focusing on defilers would've been safer). Then again, I don't think they were terrible mistakes, just miscalculated plays that went wrong. This is why BW is so great. You can never get super ahead even by winning one skirmish, and there's always a chance of comebacks! | ||
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ne4aJIb
Russian Federation3209 Posts
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Rainalcar
Croatia360 Posts
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Pyrrhuloxia
United States6700 Posts
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Miragee
8475 Posts
On August 17 2016 00:24 Peeano wrote: I hope this is the last time we will ever see it on a tourney, same for CB. They're long past getting stale imho. We are in dire need of new maps (that have actually been balance tested properly). I'd love to see a future tourney with a 2 player map, a 3 player map, 2 4 player maps and a 3 player island map. It's a dream of mine to see island maps flourish in BW and become something solid. Island maps are only nice for fun matches though. For competitive they are broken as fuck. | ||
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Peeano
Netherlands4891 Posts
On August 17 2016 06:22 Miragee wrote: Island maps are only nice for fun matches though. For competitive they are broken as fuck. Would you mind providing proof or either explaining thoroughly? The last time island maps were played competitively players and maps were still far from where they were at the end of the KeSPA-era. With good mapmaking and wiser players I like to think any major imbalances can be overcome. | ||
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FlaShFTW
United States10097 Posts
All-in-all, hero made many crucial mistakes that otherwise would have led to a won game. | ||
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prech
United States2948 Posts
 hero's aggressive hatch-first builds really paid off until the last set when  Sea finally exploited it.Nice to see Sea finally perform offline like he normally does on his streams | ||
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joust85
Canada53 Posts
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LRM)TechnicS
Bulgaria1565 Posts
the way i saw them was like that: game 1: bo win for sea game 2: strange opening for hero, even stranger strategy pick by sea then game 3: somewhat standard tvz win where t takes z's 3rd out soon game 4: somewhat standard zvt win where z holds his 3rd early on game 5: when mutas started harrassing sea i actually thought that hero is ahead and wondered why he lost, then the late 3rd hatch hence less larvas started to weigh in and i saw him randomly losing an ovie and placing 3 additional sunks that he didn't need at all, getting very late 3rd expo and den/late tech. if hero was more confident he would have faired significantly better in the last game | ||
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RKC
2848 Posts
On August 17 2016 08:08 FlaShFTW wrote: I still think Hero had a chance in that match. If he stabilizes by killing off the vessel push and can power drone while taking a 4th behind map control with his army, he can solidify and get out ultras much earlier than Sea is expecting. He also has a timing window before Sea regains map control with spider mines and vultures where ultra ling would be very effective and could kill Sea's 3rd before tanks are out. All-in-all, hero made many crucial mistakes that otherwise would have led to a won game. Yes, Hero had the momentum, and had Sea at the ropes at certain spots. Perhaps he played a bit safe and scared at times - the muta harassment seemed more like poking and buying time ("okay, let's delay him while I think of something, maybe he will collapse like G2). And then when he made a bold switch to guardian, he was caught off by Sea's attack. Was it good luck that Sea pushed out? Maybe, but I think we need to give Sea more credit for it. He probably sense some weakness and indecision on Hero's part, and figured a sharp timing might deal a knockout blow to Hero (which it did). Quite brilliantly played by Sea in the end at the crucial situations. He deserved the win. I also think there were a lot of mind games going on between the players throughout the series. Which explains the odd decisions made and how players may seem to have 'tilted' and 'threw' (when they really didn't). | ||
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Gak2
Canada418 Posts
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Xeln4g4
Italy1208 Posts
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Miragee
8475 Posts
On August 17 2016 08:06 Peeano wrote: Would you mind providing proof or either explaining thoroughly? The last time island maps were played competitively players and maps were still far from where they were at the end of the KeSPA-era. With good mapmaking and wiser players I like to think any major imbalances can be overcome. Afaik they got removed from KESPA pool because they favoured protoss a lot. At least in PvZ that's true. Can't talk about PvT but in PvZ, when protoss players figured out how to play the maps it just got ridiculous. That's what I gathered at least. I wasn't watching bw back then and only watched a few vods. Would be nice if someone of that era would post here. | ||
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Piste
6167 Posts
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Dante08
Singapore4121 Posts
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[sc1f]eonzerg
Belgium6505 Posts
On August 17 2016 23:10 Dante08 wrote: Just finished the series, was pretty exciting! Quick question, who was actually ahead after the failed bunker rush? Sea | ||
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Cryoc
Germany909 Posts
I would have liked it much more, if Hero hadn't committed to his ling runby at Sea's natural. He killed 3 SCVs or so, but after that happened the rest of the SCVs could immediately go back to mining and Sea was able to scout Hero again. I think after something like this, it is much more important to keep Terran in the dark because unless Sea stays on 1 base, he has no idea what all-in might be coming and is very vulnerable because of late tech. | ||
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slappy
United States1271 Posts
Long live BW! | ||
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ortseam
996 Posts
On August 17 2016 10:54 LRM)TechnicS wrote: game 5: when mutas started harrassing sea i actually thought that hero is ahead and wondered why he lost, then the late 3rd hatch hence less larvas started to weigh in and i saw him randomly losing an ovie and placing 3 additional sunks that he didn't need at all, getting very late 3rd expo and den/late tech. if hero was more confident he would have faired significantly better in the last game He actually had +1 attack on his mutas after a while, which probably means he relied on them to do much more damage than they did and changed his mind. 3rd hatch in main was bad, too (not to mention not pulling drones in time against drop | ||
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FlaShFTW
United States10097 Posts
On August 17 2016 10:58 RKC wrote: Yes, Hero had the momentum, and had Sea at the ropes at certain spots. Perhaps he played a bit safe and scared at times - the muta harassment seemed more like poking and buying time ("okay, let's delay him while I think of something, maybe he will collapse like G2). And then when he made a bold switch to guardian, he was caught off by Sea's attack. Was it good luck that Sea pushed out? Maybe, but I think we need to give Sea more credit for it. He probably sense some weakness and indecision on Hero's part, and figured a sharp timing might deal a knockout blow to Hero (which it did). Quite brilliantly played by Sea in the end at the crucial situations. He deserved the win. I also think there were a lot of mind games going on between the players throughout the series. Which explains the odd decisions made and how players may seem to have 'tilted' and 'threw' (when they really didn't). i think Sea's push was the thing that was going to bite him so hard in the ass. You can ask SC2John about this, but I was screaming my head off for Hero to go kill Sea's tiny little army that was pushing. Then he decided to suicide all his lings and mutas into the natural and killed like a bunker, a few marines, and tank. It was simply GG after that. He desperately needed those units if he wanted to hold the push. I don't doubt anyone "deserving" the win, whoever wins deserved it and Sea deserved the win. He played well, took the early game lead with a BO win, and used it to his advantage. I just wished hero played better, because he's been slumping for so long I've missed seeing him playing for the gold :/ | ||
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TanGeng
Sanya12364 Posts
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BLinD-RawR
ALLEYCAT BLUES49973 Posts
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KobraKay
Portugal4219 Posts
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