You do know that Movie has a very good record both from kespa and post-kespa? He makes mistakes because he takes chances. According to the afreeca stream numbers players like Shuttle and Best is like 15 times more popular than Movie. Do you think it is because Move has done so many mistakes through his career and Shuttle and Best is like hallmarks of Protoss?

No, I didn't know about Movie's records. I didn't know that the guy made it to an OSL finals only to lose to Flash. I wasn't aware that he is still a force to be reckoned with after the fall of the pro-scene.

I vehemently disagree that taking chances means more mistakes. In Movie's case, we're not talking about losses that come about due to very risky and unorthodox play. We're talking about him losing because of simple mechanical and general gameplay mistakes, and questionable decisions. Risk-taking (or taking chances) and making mistakes are two separate things. You can take many risks and still make many mistakes. You can also take risks and not. Unfortunately, the Movie of here and now is the first sort of player. Forget "through his career", I'm talking about now. There's also a difference between playing risky and playing stupid. Movie's style is amazing to watch. But so are his abundance of mistakes and general fuckups.

Recalls of dubious value. Attacks that look as if he is completely throwing away the game (such as his attempted attack across the bridge too far versus Sharp on Circuit Breaker). The stubborn refusal to expand. The frequency of lack of control and often abysmal micro. Very few of those things have to do with risk-taking and more to do with error-making. Even Shuttle and Best have better control these days and seem to make way fewer general gameplay mistakes (although Best seems to have trouble keeping his probes alive).

So, yes, I think that the lack of mistake-making has something to do with their (current) popularity. He's been playing like this for a while now. Furthermore, Best also sported a good KeSPA-era record and has been playing decently since his return last year, steadily improving (from what I've seen), and Shuttle also has decent records. I don't know about "hallmarks of Protoss", but they are both, at very least, decent players. But to be fair, there are probably other factors that account for popularity, too. Shuttle has always been one of the most popular streamers, and Best has always been a pretty popular player. Shuttle is personable and engaging on stream and he's online all the time. Movie, on the other hand, is on far less. At least, I see him far less often than I do Shuttle, or even Best.

c3rberUs

Japan11286 Posts

February 18 2016 14:14 GMT

#44

Movie has a business (just like Mong), and he was pretty absent last year on Afreeca presumably to take care of his business. Only recently again can you see him (and Mong I think) stream relatively frequently.

tanngard

Norway1325 Posts

February 18 2016 15:04 GMT

#45

On February 18 2016 23:00 feckless wrote:

Show nested quote +

No, I didn't know about Movie's records. I didn't know that the guy made it to an OSL finals only to lose to Flash. I wasn't aware that he is still a force to be reckoned with after the fall of the pro-scene.

Actually, yes, I was aware of all those things. I vehemently disagree that taking chances means more mistakes. In Movie's case, we're not talking about losses that come about due to very risky and unorthodox play. We're talking about him losing because of simple mechanical and general gameplay mistakes, and questionable decisions. Risk-taking (or taking chances) and making mistakes are two separate things. You can take many risks and still make many mistakes. You can also take risks and not. Unfortunately, the Movie of here and now is the first sort of player. Forget "through his career", I'm talking about now. There's also a difference between playing risky and playing stupid. Movie's style is amazing to watch. But so are his abundance of mistakes and general fuckups.

Recalls of dubious value. Attacks that look as if he is completely throwing away the game (such as his attempted attack across the bridge too far versus Sharp on Circuit Breaker). The stubborn refusal to expand. The frequency of lack of control and often abysmal micro. Very few of those things have to do with risk-taking and more to do with error-taking. Even Shuttle and Best have better control these days and seem to make way fewer general gameplay mistakes (although Best seems to have trouble keeping his probes alive).

So, yes, I think that the lack of mistake-making has something to do with their (current) popularity. He's been playing like this for a while now. Furthermore, Best also sported a good KeSPA-era record and has been playing decently since his return last year, steadily improving (from what I've seen), and Shuttle also has decent records. I don't know about "hallmarks of Protoss", but they are both, at very least, decent players. But to be fair, there are probably other factors that account for popularity, too. Shuttle has always been one of the most popular streamers, and Best has always been a pretty popular player. Shuttle is personable and engaging on stream and he's online all the time. Movie, on the other hand, is on far less. At least, I see him far less often than I do Shuttle, or even Best.

BW is not chess. When you take chance to attack in a spot where there might be sufficient defense or not, you are in a sense rolling a dice. In a SENSE. Off cource that is not the whole truth, but it is not the same type of mistake of overlooking or completely misjudging situations like in a game of chess. If you play a style that is like balancing on the ledge, you are bound to fall off pretty often. Watch how many times Movie tries to find a soft spot in the Terran defence. So why is Movie playing like this? Because it is fun. Because it is exciting for the viewer and that is something Movie himself has stated is most important to him. Because if he has not the greatest mechanics he has to find other methods that can give him wins. And look who got farther in this tournament than any other P. I do however agree with you that he has a tendency to over commit in certain engagements in the mid-game of PvT, resulting in him throwing away army to the splash of tanks. I dont think he is stubborn in refusing to taking nexuses. Did you see the game against Mong? He used the recalls to take the map. He played the same way against Rush. Expanding behind him having the initiative.

Movie's PvT is not the matchup i would talk about to showcase his flair, but rather his PvZ. I can almost not recall a PvZ in post-kespa where Movie has not turned it into pure insanity. I can provide you VODs? I like Movie because he dares to be different. P are expected to play safe against T, but Movie says he does not care, because he would rather try to develope his own style and provide entertainment. That is why he is popular in China at least. Maybe he does not hang with the right crowd on Afreeca. Afreeca reminds of the schoolground. If you are popular - the more popular you get, which again makes you more popular until everyone wants to give you 'compliments' in the form of 'balloons'. Or maybe you can become the class clown like Larva and Terror? That is a good strategy to become popular also ^^ This is how it looks from the outside, but you understand korean so maybe you can tell me what is the deal with the huge discrepancy in viewer number (and income) between the streamers?

It does matter what he has done through his career. That is how you get fans. I gather that most people that watch on Afreeca today used to watch back in the kespa era also. I have noticed Movie has been streaming regularly the last 3 months or so (although i can not watch his stream). So he is getting more back into it and i hope he continues. But he has been trying to to work on his business the last couple of years so the quality of his play has been lacking for a time now.

But look. I'm not going to say i disagree with you to much. Making mistakes and playing with risk is not the same thing, of course. And im a fanboy so i also might have tendecy to notice the more positive aspects of his play. I gather from your post that you enjoy watching his games also.