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I have just seen this topic now. It's great that there are going to be new tournaments.
I must comment on the Scan issue though.
The rules say:
On July 18 2015 06:47 2Pacalypse- wrote:
the people eligible to play in these tournaments is everyone outside Korea and China.
= "read non-Korean/Chinese"
So we must investigate. Is Scan korean?
![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/Dkjo28W.png)
He has korean flag in TLPD. He has a korean name. He was raised in korea. He speaks korean (better than anything else). He knows the korean culture. He has korean genes as far as i know.
He knows the korean bw culture. He is in korean clans. He understands korean commentators. He can chat with his korean friends about new builds.
Therefore i can conclude, he IS korean.
Now there is an additional rule to the rule above:
On July 18 2015 06:47 2Pacalypse- wrote:
The edge cases (Koreans/Chinese currently residing outside of Korea/China, non-Koreans/Chinese currently residing in Korea/China and others) will be considered separately based on their participation in the foreign BW scene.
Let me quote Scan here.
On July 19 2015 10:50 LaStScan wrote:
(...) i'm in Korea (...)
So he is a korean who is currently living in Korea, therefore, according to your own rules, he should not be allowed to participate.
Whenever he moves back to the U.S., his case should be reconsidered based on his participation in the foreign BW scene.
However this rule doesn't mention how to decide based on his participation. So all i can do is summarize his participation (or at least what i found on tlnet).
Major tournaments
2008 Razer TSL - Scan played but he was banned due to cheating.
2011 AoV iCCup StarLeague - Scan won it.
2011 Reality-Defined.com Winners Tournament - Scan won it.
2013 ICCup Ladder Main Event 1 - Scan won it
Defiler tournaments
2011-2012: at least 9x won, 5x second
2014-2015: Scan won all the 5 defiler tourneys that were held recently.
Other
-Scan won the iccup ladder several times
-Scan occasionally posts on TLnet
-Scan released some of his replays recently
I just wrote down some facts
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On July 18 2015 06:47 2Pacalypse- wrote:
The edge cases (Koreans/Chinese currently residing outside of Korea/China, non-Koreans/Chinese currently residing in Korea/China and others) will be considered separately based on their participation in the foreign BW scene.
Your lawyering doesn't quite work here, zimp. Besides what was already mentioned, Scan streams on twitch, interacts with viewers in English, brings us behind the scene info and helps us translate stuff.
The way I see it, this TLS is built around the idea that it's for the foreign scene and its communities. Korean or Mongolian, Scan is a part of this community, and he's even a contributing member. If Bisu wants to become a part of TL or reps.ru pr psistorm or whatever, then he'd be allowed too.
So this is how the league was conceived by the ppl who organize it. You can discuss whether that concept is good or bad forever but lawyering and providing claims about Scan's nationality is a waste of everyone's time. The question you want to be asking in that regard is: Is Scan a TLer? But we all know the answer to that. And he's a great TLer at that.
Also, if we actually let the few interested Koreans become a full part of our community, we can gain and learn a lot from them. Basically, the benefits of living in Korean BW environment would be that much closer to us. So it's not like this is a one-way service at all. Scan is a perfect example of that.
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51589 Posts
just saw paranoid android in the map pool - lol.
at least commission someone to make a neo version of it with balanced spawns and updated aesthetics or something.
also seems to be made before the era of SCMDraft so might change the ramps to make it more mirrored.
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On July 21 2015 13:46 Stratos wrote:Show nested quote +On July 18 2015 06:47 2Pacalypse- wrote:
The edge cases (Koreans/Chinese currently residing outside of Korea/China, non-Koreans/Chinese currently residing in Korea/China and others) will be considered separately based on their participation in the foreign BW scene.
The question you want to be asking in that regard is: Is Scan a TLer?
![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/LZzqXCa.png)
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"I studied abroad, but I came to watch the starleague SO I CAN DESTROY EVERYONE IN THE TEAMLIQUID.NET TOURNAMENT AS SCAN. Sbenu Fighting!"
Since I speak the language, guess I can't play. Sucks, I was hoping to beat literally everyone.
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On July 21 2015 13:46 Stratos wrote:Show nested quote +On July 18 2015 06:47 2Pacalypse- wrote:
The edge cases (Koreans/Chinese currently residing outside of Korea/China, non-Koreans/Chinese currently residing in Korea/China and others) will be considered separately based on their participation in the foreign BW scene.
Your lawyering doesn't quite work here, zimp. Besides what was already mentioned, Scan streams on twitch, interacts with viewers in English, brings us behind the scene info and helps us translate stuff. The way I see it, this TLS is built around the idea that it's for the foreign scene and its communities. Korean or Mongolian, Scan is a part of this community, and he's even a contributing member. If Bisu wants to become a part of TL or reps.ru pr psistorm or whatever, then he'd be allowed too. So this is how the league was conceived by the ppl who organize it. You can discuss whether that concept is good or bad forever but lawyering and providing claims about Scan's nationality is a waste of everyone's time. The question you want to be asking in that regard is: Is Scan a TLer? But we all know the answer to that. And he's a great TLer at that. Also, if we actually let the few interested Koreans become a full part of our community, we can gain and learn a lot from them. Basically, the benefits of living in Korean BW environment would be that much closer to us. So it's not like this is a one-way service at all. Scan is a perfect example of that.
Ok, if thats the case i remember a guy called Minus Eagle who was the first korean as i know who streamed for foreign community before the snipealot streams got up, it was real treasure for the time. Why not Invite him also, so we can guarantee first two spots to korean foreigneers? Seems cool enough.
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On July 21 2015 15:08 SynC[gm] wrote:
"I studied abroad, but I came to watch the starleague SO I CAN DESTROY EVERYONE IN THE TEAMLIQUID.NET TOURNAMENT AS SCAN. Sbenu Fighting!"
Since I speak the language, guess I can't play. Sucks, I was hoping to beat literally everyone.
... Translation.. bad.
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I'm sure if Eagle or In_Dove were interested in signing up, they'd at least be discussed and their contributions to the foreign scene would be considered. As much as I love both of these guy I feel like much more speaks in Scan's favor than theirs (his stay abroad, strategy thread, more frequent posting). I'm unaware of either being at all active though. And you know, being a TLer you'd be kind of expected to find out about the tour on your own from browsing the site.
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zimp post pretty spot on... just allow all koreans to play. maybe i haven't been around enough and the connection europe-koreans is significantly better and the decision to allow all koreans will be better. otherwise TL will be giving to a single korean the sweet opportunity of angling the foreigner bw players while having virtually no other korean competition.
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Omg at all the crying about scan. It's really embarrassing and poor sportsmanship.
Watch out that your keyboards don't break when scan destorys you and your tears drop down your face.
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Wasn't there another Korean TLer already signing up? Anyway I'm pretty shocked at how many top foreigners take Scan as an excuse rather than a challenge. That's pretty sad actually, regardless of how the tourney turns out. I think Sziky is capable of beating Scan on a good day so why is it impossible for anyone else to do it? And even if it was impossible, shouldn't your main aim be to give the sponsor and the fans some entertaining, high level games to enjoy and to get your name out there? When I take a look at a random foreigner tour, I usually see about 50 viewers. Don't you want to change that? And let's not fool ourselves thinking that Scan's participation will be a turn off for the average fan. After all, we just want to see some fun brood war and while Sziky's domination was pretty much undisputed it generated some fanboyism, great storylines (sziky vs doty anyone) and fun games. Scan can serve that very purpose but not if everyone's attitude is just 'oh well he's korean'. Study his game. Prepare builds that specifically target him. Learn from him. Then cheese the fuck out of him. Do whatever it takes and who knows? If you do make it you just may become another legend of foreign BW. It's still a more thrilling prospect than 'Let's see who actually gave a fuck to practice for this season', and that's not just for the viewers but I think the players as well. Here's your boss for this game. Can you beat him? #nevergiveupneversurrender
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On July 21 2015 17:40 Stratos wrote:
Wasn't there another Korean TLer already signing up? Anyway I'm pretty shocked at how many top foreigners take Scan as an excuse rather than a challenge. That's pretty sad actually, regardless of how the tourney turns out. I think Sziky is capable of beating Scan on a good day so why is it impossible for anyone else to do it? And even if it was impossible, shouldn't your main aim be to give the sponsor and the fans some entertaining, high level games to enjoy and to get your name out there? When I take a look at a random foreigner tour, I usually see about 50 viewers. Don't you want to change that? And let's not fool ourselves thinking that Scan's participation will be a turn off for the average fan. After all, we just want to see some fun brood war and while Sziky's domination was pretty much undisputed it generated some fanboyism, great storylines (sziky vs doty anyone) and fun games. Scan can serve that very purpose but not if everyone's attitude is just 'oh well he's korean'. Study his game. Prepare builds that specifically target him. Learn from him. Then cheese the fuck out of him. Do whatever it takes and who knows? If you do make it you just may become another legend of foreign BW. It's still a more thrilling prospect than 'Let's see who actually gave a fuck to practice for this season', and that's not just for the viewers but I think the players as well. Here's your boss for this game. Can you beat him? #nevergiveupneversurrender
Seriously i like you but this is to much,did u even watched scan games vs most of us ? no even close,sziky in a good day win Scan ? nah i dont think so more like Scan careless playing offraces then in a bad game of Scan with terran he loss the tourney,but i can tell you from 15 games that scan will play serious maybe sziky can take one,most of games sziky won scan on stream was 9p vs 14 cc,and sometimes a macro game where scan suicide his first push,anyway as i said before u can train study all what u want but you dont gonna be even close,cuz while im training and discussing strategies with cryoc lancerx and fenito,scan is training with zero and progamers  .
im not saying is something bad for him to do,is fucking great,wish i had same luck,and play in SSL and korean leagues.
I played in the chinese league and sadly they dq for lag they said,the most funny is the same players i was playing in this league later asked me for games in Fish server like nothing,kind of ironic,and if Scan is living in Korea right now lag will be a problem,in the last tourney that the community of hunters organized( never received the prize) i played vs Scan and he made 7 barracks bo and i couldnt micro my mutas cuz latency...and yeah for us zergs this is important..
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On July 21 2015 18:01 [sc1f]eonzerg wrote:Show nested quote +On July 21 2015 17:40 Stratos wrote:
Wasn't there another Korean TLer already signing up? Anyway I'm pretty shocked at how many top foreigners take Scan as an excuse rather than a challenge. That's pretty sad actually, regardless of how the tourney turns out. I think Sziky is capable of beating Scan on a good day so why is it impossible for anyone else to do it? And even if it was impossible, shouldn't your main aim be to give the sponsor and the fans some entertaining, high level games to enjoy and to get your name out there? When I take a look at a random foreigner tour, I usually see about 50 viewers. Don't you want to change that? And let's not fool ourselves thinking that Scan's participation will be a turn off for the average fan. After all, we just want to see some fun brood war and while Sziky's domination was pretty much undisputed it generated some fanboyism, great storylines (sziky vs doty anyone) and fun games. Scan can serve that very purpose but not if everyone's attitude is just 'oh well he's korean'. Study his game. Prepare builds that specifically target him. Learn from him. Then cheese the fuck out of him. Do whatever it takes and who knows? If you do make it you just may become another legend of foreign BW. It's still a more thrilling prospect than 'Let's see who actually gave a fuck to practice for this season', and that's not just for the viewers but I think the players as well. Here's your boss for this game. Can you beat him? #nevergiveupneversurrender Seriosuly i like you but this is to much,did u even watched scan games vs most of us ? no even close,sziky in a good day win Scan ? nah i dont think so more like Scan careless playing offraces then in a bad game of Scan with terran he loss the tourney,but i can tell you from 15 games that scan will play serious maybe sziky can take one,most of games sziky won scan on stream was 9p vs 14 cc,and sometimes a macro game where scan suicide his first push,anyway as i said before u can train study all what u want but you dont gonna be even close,cuz while im training and discussing strategies with cryoc lancerx and fenito,scan is training with zero and progamers . im not saying is something bad for him to do,is fucking great,wish i had same luck,and play in SSL and korean leagues. I played in the chinese league and sadly they dq for lag they said,the most funny is the same players i was playing in this league later asked me for games in Fish server like nothing,kind of ironic,and if Scan is living in Korea right now lag will be a problem,in the last tourney that the community of hunters organized( never received the prize) i played vs Scan and he made 7 barracks bo and i couldnt micro my mutas cuz latency...and yeah for us zergs this is important..
"i played vs Scan and he made 7 barracks bo and i couldnt micro my mutas cuz latency...and yeah for us zergs this is important.."
When was this? I feel like there's no proof from you. Just only words. I streamed many games with foreigners(1v1 and 2v2), some countries(EX) Peru) could not afford to play on low lat. However, I can play on low lat with most of the countries.
I can name the players. Flisk, Trutacz, Zerotalent, DireStraits(aka: Canovas), SgT.FaT, and more.
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On July 21 2015 18:17 LaStScan wrote:Show nested quote +On July 21 2015 18:01 [sc1f]eonzerg wrote:On July 21 2015 17:40 Stratos wrote:
Wasn't there another Korean TLer already signing up? Anyway I'm pretty shocked at how many top foreigners take Scan as an excuse rather than a challenge. That's pretty sad actually, regardless of how the tourney turns out. I think Sziky is capable of beating Scan on a good day so why is it impossible for anyone else to do it? And even if it was impossible, shouldn't your main aim be to give the sponsor and the fans some entertaining, high level games to enjoy and to get your name out there? When I take a look at a random foreigner tour, I usually see about 50 viewers. Don't you want to change that? And let's not fool ourselves thinking that Scan's participation will be a turn off for the average fan. After all, we just want to see some fun brood war and while Sziky's domination was pretty much undisputed it generated some fanboyism, great storylines (sziky vs doty anyone) and fun games. Scan can serve that very purpose but not if everyone's attitude is just 'oh well he's korean'. Study his game. Prepare builds that specifically target him. Learn from him. Then cheese the fuck out of him. Do whatever it takes and who knows? If you do make it you just may become another legend of foreign BW. It's still a more thrilling prospect than 'Let's see who actually gave a fuck to practice for this season', and that's not just for the viewers but I think the players as well. Here's your boss for this game. Can you beat him? #nevergiveupneversurrender Seriosuly i like you but this is to much,did u even watched scan games vs most of us ? no even close,sziky in a good day win Scan ? nah i dont think so more like Scan careless playing offraces then in a bad game of Scan with terran he loss the tourney,but i can tell you from 15 games that scan will play serious maybe sziky can take one,most of games sziky won scan on stream was 9p vs 14 cc,and sometimes a macro game where scan suicide his first push,anyway as i said before u can train study all what u want but you dont gonna be even close,cuz while im training and discussing strategies with cryoc lancerx and fenito,scan is training with zero and progamers . im not saying is something bad for him to do,is fucking great,wish i had same luck,and play in SSL and korean leagues. I played in the chinese league and sadly they dq for lag they said,the most funny is the same players i was playing in this league later asked me for games in Fish server like nothing,kind of ironic,and if Scan is living in Korea right now lag will be a problem,in the last tourney that the community of hunters organized( never received the prize) i played vs Scan and he made 7 barracks bo and i couldnt micro my mutas cuz latency...and yeah for us zergs this is important.. "i played vs Scan and he made 7 barracks bo and i couldnt micro my mutas cuz latency...and yeah for us zergs this is important.." When was this? I feel like there's no proof from you. Just only words. I streamed many games with foreigners(1v1 and 2v2), some countries(EX) Peru) could not afford to play on low lat. However, I can play on low lat with most of the countries. I can name the players. Flisk, Trutacz, Zerotalent, DireStraits(aka: Canovas), SgT.FaT, and more.
Andromeda game in some summer tourney that we never got prize money,and u were in Korea with some mac copmputer that uses windows ? -_- .
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On July 21 2015 17:40 Stratos wrote:
Wasn't there another Korean TLer already signing up? Anyway I'm pretty shocked at how many top foreigners take Scan as an excuse rather than a challenge. That's pretty sad actually, regardless of how the tourney turns out. I think Sziky is capable of beating Scan on a good day so why is it impossible for anyone else to do it? And even if it was impossible, shouldn't your main aim be to give the sponsor and the fans some entertaining, high level games to enjoy and to get your name out there? When I take a look at a random foreigner tour, I usually see about 50 viewers. Don't you want to change that? And let's not fool ourselves thinking that Scan's participation will be a turn off for the average fan. After all, we just want to see some fun brood war and while Sziky's domination was pretty much undisputed it generated some fanboyism, great storylines (sziky vs doty anyone) and fun games. Scan can serve that very purpose but not if everyone's attitude is just 'oh well he's korean'. Study his game. Prepare builds that specifically target him. Learn from him. Then cheese the fuck out of him. Do whatever it takes and who knows? If you do make it you just may become another legend of foreign BW. It's still a more thrilling prospect than 'Let's see who actually gave a fuck to practice for this season', and that's not just for the viewers but I think the players as well. Here's your boss for this game. Can you beat him? #nevergiveupneversurrender
TLS is like the golden foreigneer tournament and its normal people to be more sensitive on this.
Look i dont remember which league was, but sayle cast it, and scan destroyed sziky in the finals. If i remember correctly lots of people including me were happy that Sziky dominance was stopped and i havent seen people talk that scan shouldnt participate. Now the things are very different, there were no foreign events to keep the scene alive, while scan is playing with the top koreans. The gap became far too big and its not feeling like a challenge, scan is in another league really. My oppinion is the foreigneers have no guilt for not practicing about one event that nobody knows if its going to happen or not, the normal thing after so much time passed is to think its dead and focus on something else. Now when u say "gogo u can do it" is like to do something out of nothing. Plus there is already a boss - Sziky. He was the main target and nobody was ever able to beat him in the tls, now if you add scan it becomes too much i guess.
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Croatia9535 Posts
On July 21 2015 18:01 [sc1f]eonzerg wrote:Show nested quote +On July 21 2015 17:40 Stratos wrote:
Wasn't there another Korean TLer already signing up? Anyway I'm pretty shocked at how many top foreigners take Scan as an excuse rather than a challenge. That's pretty sad actually, regardless of how the tourney turns out. I think Sziky is capable of beating Scan on a good day so why is it impossible for anyone else to do it? And even if it was impossible, shouldn't your main aim be to give the sponsor and the fans some entertaining, high level games to enjoy and to get your name out there? When I take a look at a random foreigner tour, I usually see about 50 viewers. Don't you want to change that? And let's not fool ourselves thinking that Scan's participation will be a turn off for the average fan. After all, we just want to see some fun brood war and while Sziky's domination was pretty much undisputed it generated some fanboyism, great storylines (sziky vs doty anyone) and fun games. Scan can serve that very purpose but not if everyone's attitude is just 'oh well he's korean'. Study his game. Prepare builds that specifically target him. Learn from him. Then cheese the fuck out of him. Do whatever it takes and who knows? If you do make it you just may become another legend of foreign BW. It's still a more thrilling prospect than 'Let's see who actually gave a fuck to practice for this season', and that's not just for the viewers but I think the players as well. Here's your boss for this game. Can you beat him? #nevergiveupneversurrender Seriously i like you but this is to much,did u even watched scan games vs most of us ? no even close
You need to re-watch Sziky's games in TLS1/2/3.
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On July 21 2015 18:49 2Pacalypse- wrote:Show nested quote +On July 21 2015 18:01 [sc1f]eonzerg wrote:On July 21 2015 17:40 Stratos wrote:
Wasn't there another Korean TLer already signing up? Anyway I'm pretty shocked at how many top foreigners take Scan as an excuse rather than a challenge. That's pretty sad actually, regardless of how the tourney turns out. I think Sziky is capable of beating Scan on a good day so why is it impossible for anyone else to do it? And even if it was impossible, shouldn't your main aim be to give the sponsor and the fans some entertaining, high level games to enjoy and to get your name out there? When I take a look at a random foreigner tour, I usually see about 50 viewers. Don't you want to change that? And let's not fool ourselves thinking that Scan's participation will be a turn off for the average fan. After all, we just want to see some fun brood war and while Sziky's domination was pretty much undisputed it generated some fanboyism, great storylines (sziky vs doty anyone) and fun games. Scan can serve that very purpose but not if everyone's attitude is just 'oh well he's korean'. Study his game. Prepare builds that specifically target him. Learn from him. Then cheese the fuck out of him. Do whatever it takes and who knows? If you do make it you just may become another legend of foreign BW. It's still a more thrilling prospect than 'Let's see who actually gave a fuck to practice for this season', and that's not just for the viewers but I think the players as well. Here's your boss for this game. Can you beat him? #nevergiveupneversurrender Seriously i like you but this is to much,did u even watched scan games vs most of us ? no even close You need to re-watch Sziky's games in TLS1/2/3.
gonna be honest only watched season 1 with dewalt and g5 fighting him very close games.... ok f*ck this sh*t,guys lets ban sziky too LOL
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United Kingdom12033 Posts
There's only one major issue I see with banning Scan and that's that it's not fair. He's good, but he's been a prominent member of the TL community for a very long time and banning him because he's good is stupid.
Did players stop signing up to OGN/MBC leagues when Flash was like 100 times better than everyone else? No. They trained hard and eventually overcame him as an obstacle.
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Eon, even Flash loses to dumb (clever) shit on a bad day. Think of the stuff Michael tried against Sziky with a drone/ovie block. Did it work? No, he fucked up. But it was amazing that he tried and it earned him tons of fan love. He became a part of the folklore with that for years to come. Maybe noone can take Scan down this season. Maybe not in the next three seasons. Maybe he'll get busy with life too much to play then. Or maybe some will just outplay him then. But if you as a player don't strive to be the best you can regardless of your opponents then don't expect me as a fan to cheer you on. It's one thing to cheer on an unsuccessful player but another to cheer on one that isn't trying.
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On July 21 2015 18:59 Stratos wrote:
Eon, even Flash loses to dumb (clever) shit on a bad day. Think of the stuff Michael tried against Sziky with a drone/ovie block. Did it work? No, he fucked up. But it was amazing that he tried and it earned him tons of fan love. He became a part of the folklore with that for years to come. Maybe noone can take Scan down this season. Maybe not in the next three seasons. Maybe he'll get busy with life too much to play then. Or maybe some will just outplay him then. But if you as a player don't strive to be the best you can regardless of your opponents then don't expect me as a fan to cheer you on. It's one thing to cheer on an unsuccessful player but another to cheer on one that isn't trying.
give me pros to train then we talk,as i said discussing strategies with cryoc lancerx and fenito dont gonna put me in semiprogamer level ^^ just from time to time take games from them,and is good cuz is the max level one can aspire us the foreigners..
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EPT
