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On July 21 2015 03:46 GGzerG wrote:
I was told by a little bird that Telecom the almighty will be practicing BW again to play in this.
Although he thinks the rules make no sense. "No Korean / chinese players" , "BW Foreign Scene"
*A wild scan has appeared*
gg
Firstly, ROFL!!! And second, i actually took the time to read most of the comments below this thread and i completely side with all the arguments that are against Scan playing in the big tournament. I hold nothing personal against him nor i disrespect his flawless skill in this game, but what i do know is that he is probably the top semi-pro korean player in the scene for a good time now. I understand that he has been helping and he has been active in TL and overall the foreigner scene, but not for one second i have ever considered him a foreigner player. From what i know he grew up in Korea, he grew up with the Korean scene and THEN he moved outside of it for a while and has managed to learn english on a decent level hence started participating in foreign events. But none one bit anyone of you can convince me to believe that he can pass for a foreigner just because he learned the global language and lived a few years in another country. If that is so, then the term "foreigner" loses its meaning and value in our community.
PS I just want to add that the organisers and all involved in these tournaments have the full right to do whatever they want, but if they want to truly satisfy the community it will be good if we are given the option to have a vote on controversies as this one. Peace and love ^_^
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Rus_Brain is the king BW sponsor here, so we must be all thankful to him and have that in mind
My opinion on the korean/foreigner issue is that however anyone tries to slice it, Scan is a korean. In my eyes, this makes him and any other korean/chinese unsuitable for any bw event/league or anything that pretends to be for the so called foreigners. Skill level is relevant. However the more important thing for me is basically this:
On July 18 2015 21:39 1sh2sh3sh wrote:
No one wants to play vs korean with extra/high latency.
and most importantly - especially against a terran. This handicaps all zergs against him in a TvZ match severely. I hope readers are competent enough and I don't have to reason the content of the last sentence. Zergs happen to have ranked the highest in the last TLS events so far and this, at least in my eyes, is anything but a support for the foreign bw scene. I believe that is the case in PvT as well, but I don't feel competent enough to be as sure for PvT as I am for ZvT.
In reality, playing in fish for practice is the best practice a foreigner player can nowadays get given how inactive the scene is. IMO The practice in slight lag on high latency is worth when a foreigner player prepares for a foreigner tournament as many more players become inactive again in the later stages of the tournament. However I refuse to suffer against korean terrans in a tournament that pretends to be for foreigners. To the naked eye slight lag on high latency is nothing, but in reality I think is more than enough to change the odds of the players significantly. Just don't call it a "foreigner" tournament and allow all koreans to play. Call it Rus_Brain Cup or something.
In the end Rus_brain is the king and he can have large influence over the decision at least for the first 1-2 cups. Imho: allow all koreans to play or make it a true foreigner event/series.
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Scan was a participant in previous TL starleague events. Nobody had a problem with him being Korean back then. Maybe because everyone was training hard and Scan wasn't as good as he is now, but who's fault is that? Scan kept playing and improving his skills while everyone else got lazy or tired of the game. You guys should've known there was gonna be more tournaments to play in, you just decided there was more important things in life. That's fine, but you shouldn't be punishing the people who still find time to play some games every week and stay in shape.
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On July 21 2015 05:45 LRM)TechnicS wrote:
Zergs happen to have ranked the highest in the last TLS events so far and this, at least in my eyes, is anything but a support for the foreign bw scene.
zvz eunt domus
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technics u are right but scan not have lag.
I'm still not decided but I am inclined in that direction ''However I refuse to suffer against korean terrans in a tournament''
One thing is a fact last 2 years or more not have tournament this is maybe start again and again 2 years nothing :D(hope no)
whos said go practice and other cleverness can said too for scan ( whos can play ssl, afrreeca stream and all korean events
if It would be good. Foreigners ? :D impossible t.t .
shinrei and others people add we 1000 dollar one mounth and we not tired and lazy for practice.(my Opinion :D )
Why do I say this? see scan how much money take or see me and all others foreign (and understand why he ..) or go see u how can take my level.
I'll wait :D not only say. i can say too scan go practice for ssl u have chance(ukorean) I write stupid again although this is my opinion(just honest)
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Croatia9535 Posts
On July 21 2015 06:48 sas.Sziky wrote:
technics u are right but scan not have lag.
I'm still not decided but I am inclined in that direction ''However I refuse to suffer against korean terrans in a tournament''
One thing is a fact last 2 years or more not have tournament this is maybe start again and again 2 years nothing :D(hope no)
whos said go practice and other cleverness can said too for scan ( whos can play ssl, afrreeca stream and all korean events
if It would be good. Foreigners ? :D impossible t.t .
shinrei and others people add we 1000 dollar one mounth and we not tired and lazy for practice.(my Opinion :D )
Why do I say this? see scan how much money take or see me and all others foreign (and understand why he ..) or go see u how can take my level.
I'll wait :D not only say. i can say too scan go practice for ssl u have chance(ukorean) I write stupid again although this is my opinion(just honest)
This is honestly the best post in the thread, even with the broken English. Thank you for posting it Sziky!
You're right Sziky that Scan has opportunities in the Korea like playing in the Korean events, that foreigners don't have. And as I already said in this thread, if he starts participating in those Korean events, we'll revise our rules if necessary.
And yeah, 1000 dollars a month would be a good motivation, but $100 a week is not that bad either imo. We really hope and there's a good chance that we won't stop with BW events after TLS Championship again for 2 years as you say ^^.
Also Technics, your concerns about lagg issues are valid, but that goes the same for all the players, not just one particular player...
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On July 21 2015 05:45 LRM)TechnicS wrote:Rus_Brain is the king BW sponsor here, so we must be all thankful to him and have that in mind My opinion on the korean/foreigner issue is that however anyone tries to slice it, Scan is a korean. In my eyes, this makes him and any other korean/chinese unsuitable for any bw event/league or anything that pretends to be for the so called foreigners. Skill level is relevant. However the more important thing for me is basically this: Show nested quote +On July 18 2015 21:39 1sh2sh3sh wrote:
No one wants to play vs korean with extra/high latency.
and most importantly - especially against a terran. This handicaps all zergs against him in a TvZ match severely. I hope readers are competent enough and I don't have to reason the content of the last sentence. Zergs happen to have ranked the highest in the last TLS events so far and this, at least in my eyes, is anything but a support for the foreign bw scene. I believe that is the case in PvT as well, but I don't feel competent enough to be as sure for PvT as I am for ZvT. In reality, playing in fish for practice is the best practice a foreigner player can nowadays get given how inactive the scene is. IMO The practice in slight lag on high latency is worth when a foreigner player prepares for a foreigner tournament as many more players become inactive again in the later stages of the tournament. However I refuse to suffer against korean terrans in a tournament that pretends to be for foreigners. To the naked eye slight lag on high latency is nothing, but in reality I think is more than enough to change the odds of the players significantly. Just don't call it a "foreigner" tournament and allow all koreans to play. Call it Rus_Brain Cup or something. In the end Rus_brain is the king and he can have large influence over the decision at least for the first 1-2 cups. Imho: allow all koreans to play or make it a true foreigner event/series.
Speaking of lag and latency changes, I am able to play on low lat with most of the foreigners(No Peru, TY!).
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You forgot ZhanHun and Fengzi. They also played.
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Croatia9535 Posts
That was two years ago and he played it from the US. But point taken.
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On July 21 2015 08:17 LaStScan wrote:You forgot ZhanHun and Fengzi. They also played.
ok? I dont think they should be playing in foreigner events either, as they are playing in both chinese and korean pro scenes. And also live in China
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On July 21 2015 08:32 FyRe_DragOn wrote:Show nested quote +On July 21 2015 08:17 LaStScan wrote:You forgot ZhanHun and Fengzi. They also played. ok? I dont think they should be playing in foreigner events either, as they are playing in both chinese and korean pro scenes. And also live in China
sziky eon and tacz played in C-OSL too. exclude them too? if you call the chinese scene a "pro scene" and thus infer the chinese are pro's you would have to argue that those three shouldn't play too. I don't think that's what you're trying to argue here, so explain to me where the difference is.
€: Sziky got knocked out in the quarterfinals, so he went pretty deep. Oh and by no other that  Modesty, a progamer.
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On July 21 2015 08:46 Cele wrote:Show nested quote +On July 21 2015 08:32 FyRe_DragOn wrote:On July 21 2015 08:17 LaStScan wrote:You forgot ZhanHun and Fengzi. They also played. ok? I dont think they should be playing in foreigner events either, as they are playing in both chinese and korean pro scenes. And also live in China sziky eon and tacz played in C-OSL too. exclude them too? if you call the chinese scene a "pro scene" and thus infer the chinese are pro's you would have to argue that those three shouldn't play too. I don't think that's what you're trying to argue here, so explain to me where the difference is. €: Sziky got knocked out in the quarterfinals, so he went pretty deep. Oh and by no other that Modesty, a progamer.
The difference is the C-OSL accepts foreigners because they dont care, and invites koreans afaik. Foreigners they probably dont consider a threat, but I dont think they want every korean pro joining and stomping all over their tournaments, but they allow some to join for publicity. I could be wrong but thats how they do it to my knowledge. Also they have a way bigger scene and can afford to do stuff like that.
Foreigner events have traditionally banned koreans and chinese and Im saying id rather keep it that way. We only have on average like one big tournament a year so having koreans and chinese play is a blow to the foreign scene, inactive as it is.
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The real threat you need to worry about is lancerx anyway. Scan won't even have a chance if he meets him in the tournaments.
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lol the chinese arent any much better than the foreigners. their best players are not as good as top koreans and they have lives outside too. in fact they have mostly been concentrating on 2v2 these days. so dont spew misconceptions plzz
and btw they set handicaps on korean players in their tournaments (offrace every odd/even sets) just to give their chinese players a fairer chance.
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On July 21 2015 09:21 FyRe_DragOn wrote:Show nested quote +On July 21 2015 08:46 Cele wrote:On July 21 2015 08:32 FyRe_DragOn wrote:On July 21 2015 08:17 LaStScan wrote:You forgot ZhanHun and Fengzi. They also played. ok? I dont think they should be playing in foreigner events either, as they are playing in both chinese and korean pro scenes. And also live in China sziky eon and tacz played in C-OSL too. exclude them too? if you call the chinese scene a "pro scene" and thus infer the chinese are pro's you would have to argue that those three shouldn't play too. I don't think that's what you're trying to argue here, so explain to me where the difference is. €: Sziky got knocked out in the quarterfinals, so he went pretty deep. Oh and by no other that Modesty, a progamer. The difference is the C-OSL accepts foreigners because they dont care, and invites koreans afaik. Foreigners they probably dont consider a threat, but I dont think they want every korean pro joining and stomping all over their tournaments, but they allow some to join for publicity. I could be wrong but thats how they do it to my knowledge. Also they have a way bigger scene and can afford to do stuff like that. Foreigner events have traditionally banned koreans and chinese and Im saying id rather keep it that way. We only have on average like one big tournament a year so having koreans and chinese play is a blow to the foreign scene, inactive as it is.
well i see what you mean, but technically the chinese have mostly be considered foreigners in the past. - They are listed as those for instance  Foreigners
Granted, there are not a lot of occasions where Chinese played in foreign events, but they did: Gambit& had a chinese team participating,  Zhanhun and JayStar played for them, both of which are considered as pro's in your book i think. Pj and Legend played in the GosuGamers Star League Season I. So no, Chinese haven't been excluded from foreign events strictly.
What is true, that the two TSL's and the three TLS tournaments didn't let them play, but thats also due to lag issues.
and btw they set handicaps on korean players in their tournaments (offrace every odd/even sets) just to give their chinese players a fairer chance. that's also an interesting point, i could be wrong but to my knowledge the "progamer rule" (they had to offrace every second game vs chinese) was not applied to Scan in the last C-OSL. WHich would tell us, that the Chinese in fact do care if their players have to face Pro's but didn't consider Scan as progamer.
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On July 21 2015 10:02 Cele wrote:Show nested quote +and btw they set handicaps on korean players in their tournaments (offrace every odd/even sets) just to give their chinese players a fairer chance. that's also an interesting point, i could be wrong but to my knowledge the "progamer rule" (they had to offrace every second game vs chinese) was not applied to Scan in the last C-OSL. WHich would tell us, that the Chinese in fact do care if their players have to face Pro's but didn't consider Scan as progamer.
yup, if the chinese (whom calibre wise are equivalent to foreigners) do not treat Scan as a korean progamer, why is the foreign scene treating scan as such? just reeks of phobia
btw in a later tournament they change it to "offrace every EVEN game vs chinese" and Zero still won the event. Thats another reason I said the chinese are not any better than the foreigners atm.
but i guess they wont even think about TLS anymore because of lag.
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On July 21 2015 09:27 Shinrei wrote:
The real threat you need to worry about is lancerx anyway. Scan won't even have a chance if he meets him in the tournaments.
Not sure if trolling or serious Shinrei lol
EDIT : To clarify, I don't think that Lancerx could take a game off of scan in a tournament setting to be honest.
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Question about the casting setup. is it a 4 way caste, two seperate streams, a rotating schedule or just hey whichever 4 of these are avialable?
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TLADT24920 Posts
On July 21 2015 11:38 TheRavensName wrote:
Question about the casting setup. is it a 4 way caste, two seperate streams, a rotating schedule or just hey whichever 4 of these are avialable?
it's only one stream with Sayle and Elegant casting (or at least Sayle is confirmed, will have to double check for Elegant).
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EPT
