On February 17 2006 04:08 YoUr_KiLLeR wrote: pusan played like he was scared the entire series.
You could literally see him gulp once a game -_- These maps are ridiculously bad for PvZ too T_____T I mean, they are not 'bifrost bad', but instead of having one bifrost, we now have 4 maps that are.. bad.
After seeing pusan lose his reaver game 1 (that shuttle mistake happens so often when you are nervous) I knew it would be 0-3. I think pusan would have done much better if he hadn't been so afraid tho.. Every game was just, desperation openings -o-; Actually.. no maybe he wouldn't -.- These maps are gay gaygaygay.
But I can't see why he didn't tech to templars in the game on cultivation period.. Not like he actually used his 4 gateways -.-
+ It was a bit unlucky, how he turned his zealots back to meet another one, and thus lost his timing window on the morphing sunk
Btw, I totally can't see why 127 damage storm would be helpful. It's very, very easy to get the neccessary 1-2 hits in on a lurker and then storm it so it's not like it's important, and it's not like it affects hydras -,.- -.,-
It's like when Kingdom 3-0ed junwi (the maps weren't exactly hot for zerg then -,.- although better than the current ones are for protoss!) so -_-;;
On February 17 2006 03:23 [Red]Dragoon wrote: Well pvz is hard, it is hard to beat top z in bo 5 with p. However I believed in PuSan, I thought he will do much better. Ah well.
One thing just crossed my mind. When was the last time p won over z in bo5 in starleague?
I believe that would be when Reach 3-2'ed Chojja (which really should have been 3-1 for Chojja if Chojja didn't completely fucked up the 4th game by leaving an entire mining base with no detection)
In OSL, I believe it would be way back in 2004 when Reach etched out a 3-2 over Yellow (which really should have been 3-2 for Yellow if he didn't completely fucked up an impatient attack; probably the worst zvp game Yellow ever played)
Well. Remember the maps were complete fucking GARBAGE that OSL, so reach winning 3-2 is fucking impressive -,.-a
Anyway, it's not like there's been a lot of PvZ bo5s, reach vs yellow, reach vs chojja, reach vs ipxzerg, pusan vs july
On February 17 2006 03:22 tfeign wrote: Honestly Pusan never ever ever had any chance at all. All 3 games were pure, complete rapage. July never even tried (not like he had to anyway). Each game lasted like what...10 minutes max? Wow does Anytime feel lucky how he didn't have to face a zerg in the last OSL.
Last time I checked, both yellow and ggplay are zerg users. And he beat them both.
Anyway, equalling july to 'a zerg' is like calling Mike Tyson 'a boxer'.
July is a god, Pusan clearly has some way left to go and we need better maps T_T
This was one of the ugliest series of games I've ever seen, I was literally saddened by it. Those maps feel completely impossible to play vs someone like july on.
Anyway, it's not like there's been a lot of PvZ bo5s, reach vs yellow, reach vs chojja, reach vs ipxzerg, pusan vs july
You also forgot:
Reach vs July
Nal_rA vs July
Nal_rA vs Yellow
All of them won by the zerg of course. All ended in 3-1. Reach vs Savior and July vs Reach also ended in 3-1 for the zerg as well. This seems to be the typical score.
Last time I checked, both yellow and ggplay are zerg users. And he beat them both.
Anyway, it's not like there's been a lot of PvZ bo5s, reach vs yellow, reach vs chojja, reach vs ipxzerg, pusan vs july
You also forgot:
Reach vs July
Nal_rA vs July
Nal_rA vs Yellow
All of them won by the zerg of course. All ended in 3-1. Reach vs Savior and July vs Reach also ended in 3-1 for the zerg as well. This seems to be the typical score.
Last time I checked, both yellow and ggplay are zerg users. And he beat them both.
I forgot to add "in a bo series" oops
Isn't reach vs july from 2003? If you want to count games that far back.. Kingdom vs Junwi 3-0 Nal_rA vs JJu 3-1 Reach vs Junwi 2-3 Reach vs Yellow 3-2
We can go even further back if you want (although these are completely irrelevant ;/); Garimto 3-0 SKELTON Grrr 3-2 TheBoy ( 0-2 TvZ and ZvZ then came back to win 3-0 PvZ) Grrr 3-2 H.O.T (2-2 PvZ, 1-0 RandomTvZ)
Hehe, I noticed something funny, way back in MBC Spris starleague (2004) eros~rage beat July 2-1 ^_^; BO3 is very different from BO5, obviously, but still not bad. Maybe it's only rage and foru who's got more wins than losses vs july (or maybe rage has been raped by him a hundred times but I dont know about it ).
Anyway, it's not like there's been a lot of PvZ bo5s, reach vs yellow, reach vs chojja, reach vs ipxzerg, pusan vs july
You also forgot:
Reach vs July
Nal_rA vs July
Nal_rA vs Yellow
All of them won by the zerg of course. All ended in 3-1. Reach vs Savior and July vs Reach also ended in 3-1 for the zerg as well. This seems to be the typical score.
Last time I checked, both yellow and ggplay are zerg users. And he beat them both.
I forgot to add "in a bo series" oops
Isn't reach vs july from 2003? If you want to count games that far back.. Kingdom vs Junwi 3-0 Nal_rA vs JJu 3-1 Reach vs Junwi 2-3 Reach vs Yellow 3-2
We can go even further back if you want (although these are completely irrelevant ;/); Garimto 3-0 SKELTON Grrr 3-2 H.O.T ( once 0-2 TvZ and ZvZ then came back to win 3-0 PvZ IIRC and once all random)
Hehe, I noticed something funny, way back in MBC Spris starleague (2004) eros~rage beat July 2-1 ^_^; BO3 is very different from BO5, obviously, but still not bad. Maybe it's only rage and foru who's got more wins than losses vs july (or maybe rage has been raped by him a hundred times but I dont know about it ).
The Grrr 3-2 HOT game was Grrr 2-2 PvZ and then 1-0 TvZ in the final game. Grrr v TheBoy is where Grrr lost 0-2 TvZ and ZvZ and then came back to win 3-0 PvZ.
btw i agree with frozenarbiter though, i dont think 127 storm would've had much of an impact on this series. i can't see how people are crying pvz imba from this series. pusan played like a pussy the whole time. has a protoss tried to play standard against july as of late? well, stork didn't have much of a choice on cultivation period, but nal_rock went fast expo twice and got raped twice. the last time i remember a toss going standard against july was foru...and he won 2-0. and the last time before that was also foru, and there he won 2-0 as well. i'm not saying pusan would've won had he played standard, but i really believe the series would've been closer. i'm no expert, but a fast expo puts you behind early game in order to be ahead midgame, and july's aggressive builds (he pooled first in all 3 games) perfectly exploits that window of opportunity when a fast expoing p is vulnerable.
pusan's build the first game was genius, but july's counter was equally, if not more beautiful. as a zerg whos lost to cannon rushing many times (mostly because i suck), it was amazing watching july handle the situation calmly and breaking the contain with perfect timing. his improvisation in a situation like that shows how great of a player he is.
pusan has no chance on rush hour or cult period... both maps are as imbal as they come (in terms of pvz) pusans only shots were on RoV and 815.... playing standard vs july is arguably one of the worst things to do vs july... fast expo is reletively safe build, but pusan had bad cannon placement and got it raped by hydra..
No need for another round of whining about PvZ, it's just that Pusan was nervous as hell, maps were very bad for toss and July is just a fucking ZvP god.
On February 17 2006 13:02 Plexa wrote: pusan has no chance on rush hour or cult period... both maps are as imbal as they come (in terms of pvz) pusans only shots were on RoV and 815.... playing standard vs july is arguably one of the worst things to do vs july... fast expo is reletively safe build, but pusan had bad cannon placement and got it raped by hydra..
i dont think rush hour is as imba as everyone makes it out to be. azalea is known to be z-favored as well, and foru raped the shit out of july on it with some standard play. i disagree that playing standard vs july is the worst thing to do.
Azalea isn't even bad PvZ, rush hour kinda is. I really can't understand why fast expansion is popular on that map, I see NO way for P to win vs hydra if you fast expand o_Oa
Playing standard vs july is, imo, definitely not a bad idea. As you said, he always sacrifices economy in order to pool early. I guess a lot of tosses aren't used to his kind of style.. It's like a throwback to Byun mixed with a lot of 2 hatch muta.
But it's kinda hard to do this on cultivation period.. And Ride is a strange map..
On February 17 2006 14:25 FrozenArbiter wrote: rush hour kinda is. I really can't understand why fast expansion is popular on that map, I see NO way for P to win vs hydra if you fast expand o_Oa
God I thought I was the only one who couldn't pull out a fast expansion on that map T_T.
Anyway I really hate this new trend amongst Protoss pro-gamers... They never play straight up it seems
i didnt think fast expo was too good on rush hour either, but since pusan pulled it, i thought it must've had some worth. hydra does seem impossible to defend when you fast expo. you can't cover every angle AND protect your ramp without building like 10 cannons.
but you're right, maps were heavily against pusans favor and i guess that was why he played so desperately.
On February 17 2006 03:23 [Red]Dragoon wrote: Well pvz is hard, it is hard to beat top z in bo 5 with p. However I believed in PuSan, I thought he will do much better. Ah well.
One thing just crossed my mind. When was the last time p won over z in bo5 in starleague?
I believe that would be when Reach 3-2'ed Chojja (which really should have been 3-1 for Chojja if Chojja didn't completely fucked up the 4th game by leaving an entire mining base with no detection)
In OSL, I believe it would be way back in 2004 when Reach etched out a 3-2 over Yellow (which really should have been 3-2 for Yellow if he didn't completely fucked up an impatient attack; probably the worst zvp game Yellow ever played)
Well. Remember the maps were complete fucking GARBAGE that OSL, so reach winning 3-2 is fucking impressive -,.-a
Anyway, it's not like there's been a lot of PvZ bo5s, reach vs yellow, reach vs chojja, reach vs ipxzerg, pusan vs july
On February 17 2006 03:22 tfeign wrote: Honestly Pusan never ever ever had any chance at all. All 3 games were pure, complete rapage. July never even tried (not like he had to anyway). Each game lasted like what...10 minutes max? Wow does Anytime feel lucky how he didn't have to face a zerg in the last OSL.
Last time I checked, both yellow and ggplay are zerg users. And he beat them both.
Anyway, equalling july to 'a zerg' is like calling Mike Tyson 'a boxer'.
July is a god, Pusan clearly has some way left to go and we need better maps T_T
This was one of the ugliest series of games I've ever seen, I was literally saddened by it. Those maps feel completely impossible to play vs someone like july on.
I couldn't agree more. It's time for the map makers to recognize that PvZ is at epidemic levels of shittiness right now and is more important than TvZ. Period.
And despite your bullshit FA, Anytime would not have one that OSL if he had to play a Zerg. Not just July. Any Zerg.
I don't know about you, but I don't count a lame ass 3 gate dt rush and a horribly responded to faked fast expo lot rush as real wins. And how interesting that both those players were/are playing like complete shit.
EPT
).
