February 17th (Friday) 19:00 (Korean time) ◆Shinhan Bank Starleague Semifinals ▶JulyZerg(Z) vs Pusan(P) Game 1 Ride of the Valkyries Game 2 Rush Hour 2 Game 3 Cultivation Period Game 4 Shin 815 Game 5 Ride of the Valkyries
◆POS JulyZerg - "Protoss is easy"
July's ZvP is truly amazing. He has a record of 68 wins to 28 losses, a winning percentage of 70.8%. He has surpassed the great Protoss killers: KTF's Chojja(68%) and SKT1's iloveoov. In an OSL, he has only had 2 losses against Protoss. One of those losses was from Gillette Starleague's final against Reach, which he won 3:1.
The other loss was in the group stages of EVER Starleague against Pantech and Curritel's Nal_Rock. He had sweet revenge, showing him no mercy by winning 2:0 in the quarterfinals of this starleague. In conclusion, there is no Protoss that can run over July.
He hopes that this time will be his 3rd Starleague win. His rival for the Golden Mous, SKT1's Boxer, has been eliminated. This game will just be a stage for him to recieve his golden mouse.
◆POS Pusan: "I have a good zerg matchup also" It's now widely known that recent Protoss' haven't been doing well against zerg. However, Pusan is different in the way that he has a better zerg matchup than his terran matchup. His OGN record of 9wins 4 losses against zerg is much better than his Terran or Protoss matchup, which are both at 50%.
In his debut So1 Starleague, he was grouped with Protoss killer KTF Chojja and Jju, from Samsung, who he both beat. In starleagues, he hasn't lost to zergs once! He will be good competition to July.
Every Protoss winner until now has beaten a zerg in the semifinals. Garimto beat Kim Sang Hoon (?), KTF's Reach beat his teammate YellOw, Kingdom beat Junwi, and Nal_rA beat samsung's Jju to go on to win the starleague.
For Pusan to win, he has to overcome this great obstacle. He lost his seed during the last starleague, and he can't lose this one also. He publicly said that he's more comfortable facing a zerg. Let's watch him fufill that statement.
ahh yes, imo the main event of this OSL personally, pusan might be able to win 1, 4 and 5 (just looking at the maps) but july is just... july id rather see pusan advance, but whoever advances is allll good POS fighting~ so its starting in ~5hrs right?
On February 16 2006 22:21 Highways wrote: Whoever wins this must win the osl
dont let any terrans win it
ehh, I don't see a problem with Terran winning this one, they haven't been dominating lately. Anytime (P) and July (Z) won the 2 previous OSLs, and Chojja(Z) and Gorush(Z) have won the 2 recent MSLs.
Honestly Pusan never ever ever had any chance at all. All 3 games were pure, complete rapage. July never even tried (not like he had to anyway). Each game lasted like what...10 minutes max? Wow does Anytime feel lucky how he didn't have to face a zerg in the last OSL.
On February 17 2006 03:22 mrmin123 wrote: FAT ZERG SAYS "I'm so sorry for pusan that I won, and to make up for it I'm going to go win the Golden Mouse."
On February 17 2006 03:23 [Red]Dragoon wrote: Well pvz is hard, it is hard to beat top z in bo 5 with p. However I believed in PuSan, I thought he will do much better. Ah well.
One thing just crossed my mind. When was the last time p won over z in bo5 in starleague?
I believe that would be when Reach 3-2'ed Chojja (which really should have been 3-1 for Chojja if Chojja didn't completely fucked up the 4th game by leaving an entire mining base with no detection)
In OSL, I believe it would be way back in 2004 when Reach etched out a 3-2 over Yellow (which really should have been 3-2 for Yellow if he didn't completely fucked up an impatient attack; probably the worst zvp game Yellow ever played)
On February 17 2006 03:20 mrmin123 wrote: CRY PUSAN.
CRY DJETTERSTYLE.
PUNCH TO YOUR E-FACE.
On February 17 2006 03:20 Milzo wrote: "jajaja XDDDD"
STARCRAFT IS ALL LUCK ANYWAY GOD JULY IS JUST ANOTHER LUCKY NEWBIE CASY/OOV RAPE IN THE FINALS ALL MAPS/IMBALANCE/CONSTIPATION PUSAN WOULD HAVE WON IF THERE HADN'T BEEN 5 MILLION OBS LAGGING SHIT UP
On February 17 2006 03:22 mrmin123 wrote: FAT ZERG SAYS "I'm so sorry for pusan that I won, and to make up for it I'm going to go win the Golden Mouse."
Because then Pusan would have played differently and teched to templars instead of playing the way he did all 3 games. As things stand right now it's too risky to tech to templars with storm due to the threat of lurkers and others.
It's like saying if scouts were increased to 50 dmg and 500 hp it wouldn't have helped Pusan anyway because he never used scouts. Well, if scouts were buffed to that point Pusan would have played differently and incorporated scouts into his build.
Although note that I don't agree with buffing storm damage anyway. I think there are many other better ways to strength PvZ without changing storm.
Increase larvae spawn rate. Increase hatchery cost. Increase tech cost. Increase some units cost. Reduce sunken strength. Zerg detector upgrade for OL.
This will make zerg play more like the other two races and won't give them an expansion witout units for free, and more drones needed at expansions, but with higher larvae spawn rate they can have just that.
K thx bye!
*Cryyy!*
Nah, but really, protoss seem like they must have a second expansion to stand a chance against zerg, and these maps doesn't allow much in terms of fast expansion.
After building himself up so much in pre-match interviews Pusan must be really embarassed now (and should be). "I'm really confident PvZ" etc etc. Biggest semifinal rape since Kingdom vs Junwi? ...
On February 17 2006 04:08 YoUr_KiLLeR wrote: pusan played like he was scared the entire series.
You could literally see him gulp once a game -_- These maps are ridiculously bad for PvZ too T_____T I mean, they are not 'bifrost bad', but instead of having one bifrost, we now have 4 maps that are.. bad.
After seeing pusan lose his reaver game 1 (that shuttle mistake happens so often when you are nervous) I knew it would be 0-3. I think pusan would have done much better if he hadn't been so afraid tho.. Every game was just, desperation openings -o-; Actually.. no maybe he wouldn't -.- These maps are gay gaygaygay.
But I can't see why he didn't tech to templars in the game on cultivation period.. Not like he actually used his 4 gateways -.-
+ It was a bit unlucky, how he turned his zealots back to meet another one, and thus lost his timing window on the morphing sunk
Btw, I totally can't see why 127 damage storm would be helpful. It's very, very easy to get the neccessary 1-2 hits in on a lurker and then storm it so it's not like it's important, and it's not like it affects hydras -,.- -.,-
It's like when Kingdom 3-0ed junwi (the maps weren't exactly hot for zerg then -,.- although better than the current ones are for protoss!) so -_-;;
On February 17 2006 03:23 [Red]Dragoon wrote: Well pvz is hard, it is hard to beat top z in bo 5 with p. However I believed in PuSan, I thought he will do much better. Ah well.
One thing just crossed my mind. When was the last time p won over z in bo5 in starleague?
I believe that would be when Reach 3-2'ed Chojja (which really should have been 3-1 for Chojja if Chojja didn't completely fucked up the 4th game by leaving an entire mining base with no detection)
In OSL, I believe it would be way back in 2004 when Reach etched out a 3-2 over Yellow (which really should have been 3-2 for Yellow if he didn't completely fucked up an impatient attack; probably the worst zvp game Yellow ever played)
Well. Remember the maps were complete fucking GARBAGE that OSL, so reach winning 3-2 is fucking impressive -,.-a
Anyway, it's not like there's been a lot of PvZ bo5s, reach vs yellow, reach vs chojja, reach vs ipxzerg, pusan vs july
On February 17 2006 03:22 tfeign wrote: Honestly Pusan never ever ever had any chance at all. All 3 games were pure, complete rapage. July never even tried (not like he had to anyway). Each game lasted like what...10 minutes max? Wow does Anytime feel lucky how he didn't have to face a zerg in the last OSL.
Last time I checked, both yellow and ggplay are zerg users. And he beat them both.
Anyway, equalling july to 'a zerg' is like calling Mike Tyson 'a boxer'.
July is a god, Pusan clearly has some way left to go and we need better maps T_T
This was one of the ugliest series of games I've ever seen, I was literally saddened by it. Those maps feel completely impossible to play vs someone like july on.
Anyway, it's not like there's been a lot of PvZ bo5s, reach vs yellow, reach vs chojja, reach vs ipxzerg, pusan vs july
You also forgot:
Reach vs July
Nal_rA vs July
Nal_rA vs Yellow
All of them won by the zerg of course. All ended in 3-1. Reach vs Savior and July vs Reach also ended in 3-1 for the zerg as well. This seems to be the typical score.
Last time I checked, both yellow and ggplay are zerg users. And he beat them both.
Anyway, it's not like there's been a lot of PvZ bo5s, reach vs yellow, reach vs chojja, reach vs ipxzerg, pusan vs july
You also forgot:
Reach vs July
Nal_rA vs July
Nal_rA vs Yellow
All of them won by the zerg of course. All ended in 3-1. Reach vs Savior and July vs Reach also ended in 3-1 for the zerg as well. This seems to be the typical score.
Last time I checked, both yellow and ggplay are zerg users. And he beat them both.
I forgot to add "in a bo series" oops
Isn't reach vs july from 2003? If you want to count games that far back.. Kingdom vs Junwi 3-0 Nal_rA vs JJu 3-1 Reach vs Junwi 2-3 Reach vs Yellow 3-2
We can go even further back if you want (although these are completely irrelevant ;/); Garimto 3-0 SKELTON Grrr 3-2 TheBoy ( 0-2 TvZ and ZvZ then came back to win 3-0 PvZ) Grrr 3-2 H.O.T (2-2 PvZ, 1-0 RandomTvZ)
Hehe, I noticed something funny, way back in MBC Spris starleague (2004) eros~rage beat July 2-1 ^_^; BO3 is very different from BO5, obviously, but still not bad. Maybe it's only rage and foru who's got more wins than losses vs july (or maybe rage has been raped by him a hundred times but I dont know about it ).
Anyway, it's not like there's been a lot of PvZ bo5s, reach vs yellow, reach vs chojja, reach vs ipxzerg, pusan vs july
You also forgot:
Reach vs July
Nal_rA vs July
Nal_rA vs Yellow
All of them won by the zerg of course. All ended in 3-1. Reach vs Savior and July vs Reach also ended in 3-1 for the zerg as well. This seems to be the typical score.
Last time I checked, both yellow and ggplay are zerg users. And he beat them both.
I forgot to add "in a bo series" oops
Isn't reach vs july from 2003? If you want to count games that far back.. Kingdom vs Junwi 3-0 Nal_rA vs JJu 3-1 Reach vs Junwi 2-3 Reach vs Yellow 3-2
We can go even further back if you want (although these are completely irrelevant ;/); Garimto 3-0 SKELTON Grrr 3-2 H.O.T ( once 0-2 TvZ and ZvZ then came back to win 3-0 PvZ IIRC and once all random)
Hehe, I noticed something funny, way back in MBC Spris starleague (2004) eros~rage beat July 2-1 ^_^; BO3 is very different from BO5, obviously, but still not bad. Maybe it's only rage and foru who's got more wins than losses vs july (or maybe rage has been raped by him a hundred times but I dont know about it ).
The Grrr 3-2 HOT game was Grrr 2-2 PvZ and then 1-0 TvZ in the final game. Grrr v TheBoy is where Grrr lost 0-2 TvZ and ZvZ and then came back to win 3-0 PvZ.
btw i agree with frozenarbiter though, i dont think 127 storm would've had much of an impact on this series. i can't see how people are crying pvz imba from this series. pusan played like a pussy the whole time. has a protoss tried to play standard against july as of late? well, stork didn't have much of a choice on cultivation period, but nal_rock went fast expo twice and got raped twice. the last time i remember a toss going standard against july was foru...and he won 2-0. and the last time before that was also foru, and there he won 2-0 as well. i'm not saying pusan would've won had he played standard, but i really believe the series would've been closer. i'm no expert, but a fast expo puts you behind early game in order to be ahead midgame, and july's aggressive builds (he pooled first in all 3 games) perfectly exploits that window of opportunity when a fast expoing p is vulnerable.
pusan's build the first game was genius, but july's counter was equally, if not more beautiful. as a zerg whos lost to cannon rushing many times (mostly because i suck), it was amazing watching july handle the situation calmly and breaking the contain with perfect timing. his improvisation in a situation like that shows how great of a player he is.
pusan has no chance on rush hour or cult period... both maps are as imbal as they come (in terms of pvz) pusans only shots were on RoV and 815.... playing standard vs july is arguably one of the worst things to do vs july... fast expo is reletively safe build, but pusan had bad cannon placement and got it raped by hydra..
No need for another round of whining about PvZ, it's just that Pusan was nervous as hell, maps were very bad for toss and July is just a fucking ZvP god.
On February 17 2006 13:02 Plexa wrote: pusan has no chance on rush hour or cult period... both maps are as imbal as they come (in terms of pvz) pusans only shots were on RoV and 815.... playing standard vs july is arguably one of the worst things to do vs july... fast expo is reletively safe build, but pusan had bad cannon placement and got it raped by hydra..
i dont think rush hour is as imba as everyone makes it out to be. azalea is known to be z-favored as well, and foru raped the shit out of july on it with some standard play. i disagree that playing standard vs july is the worst thing to do.
Azalea isn't even bad PvZ, rush hour kinda is. I really can't understand why fast expansion is popular on that map, I see NO way for P to win vs hydra if you fast expand o_Oa
Playing standard vs july is, imo, definitely not a bad idea. As you said, he always sacrifices economy in order to pool early. I guess a lot of tosses aren't used to his kind of style.. It's like a throwback to Byun mixed with a lot of 2 hatch muta.
But it's kinda hard to do this on cultivation period.. And Ride is a strange map..
On February 17 2006 14:25 FrozenArbiter wrote: rush hour kinda is. I really can't understand why fast expansion is popular on that map, I see NO way for P to win vs hydra if you fast expand o_Oa
God I thought I was the only one who couldn't pull out a fast expansion on that map T_T.
Anyway I really hate this new trend amongst Protoss pro-gamers... They never play straight up it seems
i didnt think fast expo was too good on rush hour either, but since pusan pulled it, i thought it must've had some worth. hydra does seem impossible to defend when you fast expo. you can't cover every angle AND protect your ramp without building like 10 cannons.
but you're right, maps were heavily against pusans favor and i guess that was why he played so desperately.
On February 17 2006 03:23 [Red]Dragoon wrote: Well pvz is hard, it is hard to beat top z in bo 5 with p. However I believed in PuSan, I thought he will do much better. Ah well.
One thing just crossed my mind. When was the last time p won over z in bo5 in starleague?
I believe that would be when Reach 3-2'ed Chojja (which really should have been 3-1 for Chojja if Chojja didn't completely fucked up the 4th game by leaving an entire mining base with no detection)
In OSL, I believe it would be way back in 2004 when Reach etched out a 3-2 over Yellow (which really should have been 3-2 for Yellow if he didn't completely fucked up an impatient attack; probably the worst zvp game Yellow ever played)
Well. Remember the maps were complete fucking GARBAGE that OSL, so reach winning 3-2 is fucking impressive -,.-a
Anyway, it's not like there's been a lot of PvZ bo5s, reach vs yellow, reach vs chojja, reach vs ipxzerg, pusan vs july
On February 17 2006 03:22 tfeign wrote: Honestly Pusan never ever ever had any chance at all. All 3 games were pure, complete rapage. July never even tried (not like he had to anyway). Each game lasted like what...10 minutes max? Wow does Anytime feel lucky how he didn't have to face a zerg in the last OSL.
Last time I checked, both yellow and ggplay are zerg users. And he beat them both.
Anyway, equalling july to 'a zerg' is like calling Mike Tyson 'a boxer'.
July is a god, Pusan clearly has some way left to go and we need better maps T_T
This was one of the ugliest series of games I've ever seen, I was literally saddened by it. Those maps feel completely impossible to play vs someone like july on.
I couldn't agree more. It's time for the map makers to recognize that PvZ is at epidemic levels of shittiness right now and is more important than TvZ. Period.
And despite your bullshit FA, Anytime would not have one that OSL if he had to play a Zerg. Not just July. Any Zerg.
I don't know about you, but I don't count a lame ass 3 gate dt rush and a horribly responded to faked fast expo lot rush as real wins. And how interesting that both those players were/are playing like complete shit.
Meh, as much as I cringe when I hear you talk about balance (probably cause you're too vocal about it on the forums), I agree PvZ looks horrendous this OSL. They need to revamp the maps. >_<
Best map ius arguably RoV and Pusan said before games that he thought it was worse than Mercury lol ^_^
But all this argument is silly, Julyzerg, best fucking ZvPer ever wins 3 games on horrible maps and everybody is back at it ( omg *cry*whine Z>>>>>>>>>>>>>P ) -__-'
Get over it, Starcraft is an incredibly well balanced game, Z has a slight advantage on land maps but what about Nal_ra 5-0 streak and Draco 7-0 streak vs zergs ? If this mu was as imbalanced as many think it is these winning streaks would be impossible.
Wake up it's not Z>>>>>P it's fucking Julyzerg >>>>>> P ^_^
On February 17 2006 15:55 YoUr_KiLLeR wrote: i didnt think fast expo was too good on rush hour either, but since pusan pulled it, i thought it must've had some worth. hydra does seem impossible to defend when you fast expo. you can't cover every angle AND protect your ramp without building like 10 cannons.
but you're right, maps were heavily against pusans favor and i guess that was why he played so desperately.
what makes ride of valkyries so hard pvz though?
I've never even tried fast expanding on rush hour, it just seems like suicide o____o; But everyone seems to love it +_+
Anyway, I don't know WHY but ride of valks feels really weird playing PvZ on, it's like.. You can't really rush but fast expanding is risky, you can't really 1 gate etcetc it's odd ;o I've barely played it tho. I think pusan saying it's worse than Mercury meant july is a beast on it, not in general (I think I remember he said playing ride of valks vs july is worse than mercury).
On February 17 2006 03:23 [Red]Dragoon wrote: Well pvz is hard, it is hard to beat top z in bo 5 with p. However I believed in PuSan, I thought he will do much better. Ah well.
One thing just crossed my mind. When was the last time p won over z in bo5 in starleague?
I believe that would be when Reach 3-2'ed Chojja (which really should have been 3-1 for Chojja if Chojja didn't completely fucked up the 4th game by leaving an entire mining base with no detection)
In OSL, I believe it would be way back in 2004 when Reach etched out a 3-2 over Yellow (which really should have been 3-2 for Yellow if he didn't completely fucked up an impatient attack; probably the worst zvp game Yellow ever played)
Well. Remember the maps were complete fucking GARBAGE that OSL, so reach winning 3-2 is fucking impressive -,.-a
Anyway, it's not like there's been a lot of PvZ bo5s, reach vs yellow, reach vs chojja, reach vs ipxzerg, pusan vs july
On February 17 2006 03:22 tfeign wrote: Honestly Pusan never ever ever had any chance at all. All 3 games were pure, complete rapage. July never even tried (not like he had to anyway). Each game lasted like what...10 minutes max? Wow does Anytime feel lucky how he didn't have to face a zerg in the last OSL.
Last time I checked, both yellow and ggplay are zerg users. And he beat them both.
Anyway, equalling july to 'a zerg' is like calling Mike Tyson 'a boxer'.
July is a god, Pusan clearly has some way left to go and we need better maps T_T
This was one of the ugliest series of games I've ever seen, I was literally saddened by it. Those maps feel completely impossible to play vs someone like july on.
I couldn't agree more. It's time for the map makers to recognize that PvZ is at epidemic levels of shittiness right now and is more important than TvZ. Period.
And despite your bullshit FA, Anytime would not have one that OSL if he had to play a Zerg. Not just July. Any Zerg.
I don't know about you, but I don't count a lame ass 3 gate dt rush and a horribly responded to faked fast expo lot rush as real wins. And how interesting that both those players were/are playing like complete shit.
P only wins PvZ when the Zerg fucks it up.
Everyone else I've seen talk about anytime's win vs yellow described it as genial. I'd say it's about as valid/even more valid than julyzerg all-in hydra linging vs pusan twice in a BO5?
And people need to not put so much stock into 3 games.. Boxer 3-0 yellow in what, 30 minutes MAX? TvZ imba? (Maps) Nada 3-0 July, relatively easily if I remember things correctly, in the final no less.. (maps) Nal_rA going 10-0 on guillotine (was it 10-0 vs zerg or 10-0 in general?) (map)
Need some good, STANDARD maps.. The new maps are all very.. hm. -- I want something a little more similiar to say, LT. Just very standard, but not boring like luna.. Oh well :O Requiem I feel fits this bill (when I say standard I mean a classic map, ie NOT cultivation period, which I'm sure could be made good but currently doesn't seem to be, although I must say pusan really did play like complete crap on that map, he looked like someone who had lost all confidence, he did pretty much the exact same things that I do when that happens -.-).
R-Point had really nice PvZ stats, too bad it was too hard ZvT at top levels ><
Manablue, you need to stop whining all the time, lat osl you were complaining about how bad maps were for PvT ( but Anytime won didn't he?) this osl, how hard pvz is...
I agree maps are not good for pvz, but you definitely should stop speaking about balance, because you won't be happy until P>all, which is really of no interest at all.
July is an incredibly good player, it's his 6th osl, he won 2 of them and was finalist once, his best mu is pvz, it's not an amazing thing that pusan lost 3-0.
I REALLY root for Pusan. I hope he will bring down that cocky bitch July, and show him that his zvp can be defeated. That would be sweet. Besides I think its Pusans time to go big.
On February 18 2006 05:31 Eagleheart wrote: I REALLY root for Pusan. I hope he will bring down that cocky bitch July, and show him that his zvp can be defeated. That would be sweet. Besides I think its Pusans time to go big.
On February 18 2006 05:31 Eagleheart wrote: I REALLY root for Pusan. I hope he will bring down that cocky bitch July, and show him that his zvp can be defeated. That would be sweet. Besides I think its Pusans time to go big.
On February 18 2006 04:28 ~chut~ wrote: Manablue, you need to stop whining all the time, lat osl you were complaining about how bad maps were for PvT ( but Anytime won didn't he?) this osl, how hard pvz is...
I agree maps are not good for pvz, but you definitely should stop speaking about balance, because you won't be happy until P>all, which is really of no interest at all.
July is an incredibly good player, it's his 6th osl, he won 2 of them and was finalist once, his best mu is pvz, it's not an amazing thing that pusan lost 3-0.
Firstly, I based the PvT bitching 99% on 815 and I thought it was imbalanced because I was consistantly getting my ass handed to me on it PvT. Apparently I'm not that good.
It goes to show that maps need more playing before you can make a judgement and not have it fly back in your face. What a shame.
But in terms of this OSL, I have great confidence in saying the maps are bullshit. RushHour has been no less than renamed ZergHour among the Korean community, the changes to 815 weren't fun for PvZ, RoV has been a gong show lately (though I will admit this one is mostly July), and for god sakes let's not talk about CP. As we get more games on it you'll all come to my side of the fence. It's the most pathetic map I've ever seen in OSL play and we're going to have to sit with it fucking us in the ass for another 3 seasons. Fucking terrible.
And finally, since PvZ has been fucking bullshit for over 2 years, I don't think I need to point out that the matchup is imbalanced, full out, and it's general fucking knowledge. Read the interviews...July Zerg himself says ZvP is easy for Zerg. The POS coach says PvZ is intrinsically hard to win.
They are professionals and they admit it. Why can't you?
If there ever was a series of games that bring up balance issues, this was not the one... Pusan was incredibly aggresive every game, and I honestly thought he had a good chance in the first and 3rd games while the 2nd game he opened with probably one of the only things that works well on a horrible ZvP map and July took advantage with basically a counter strat especially for the map.
In the 3rd game he had a bad attack and hid the Zealot saw he could see Julys tech and July FOUND the zealot. They showed his face and he was obviously dismayed. Then July proceeded to do the one thing that would work well vs him(Mass Hydra) as he was protected pretty decently vs Mutas and perfectly vs lurkers. He has similar badluck in the first game imo. As I feel that if July hadnt perfectly timed his attack to kill the cannons he woulda been in for a very hard game.
EPT![[image loading]](http://image.fighterforum.com/showImage.asp?realFile=FFNEWS20060217133908001.JPG)
a 3-2 lose in a semifinal after 2-0 ?
