EPTJangbi already knocked out the player who plays as close to perfect TvP as you can hope for so what more do you want really :/
[OSL] Jin Air OSL Grand Final - Page 313
| Forum Index > Brood War Tournaments |
|
infinity2k9
United Kingdom2397 Posts
Jangbi already knocked out the player who plays as close to perfect TvP as you can hope for so what more do you want really :/ | ||
|
Release
United States4397 Posts
On September 21 2011 08:35 Biff The Understudy wrote: If Jangbi hadn't done ridiculously stupid mistakes and hadn't been very unlucky in game 4, this final would have been in four sets. Seriously, this final was close, but in a way, Jangbi really outplayed and dominated Fantasy. And I don't say that because I am a Jangbi fanboy and a Fantasy hater. True but false. Fantasy fucked him self with his terrible anti interceptor micro. It was like watching an amateur right clicking a carrier. Also, containing BEHIND the base mean that ground has free path to the his main. No tank line at his nat/main. | ||
|
infinity2k9
United Kingdom2397 Posts
Only Fantasy could have played this series and probably only Jangbi could have given this response.. that's what makes it seem so special to me don't you think? Any other players and it would have played out totally different. Sometimes you need players who are willing to try out things, like HiyA going for that insane wraith into nuke strategy in a quarter final game. Also i agree with the guy who said a PvZ finals next time would be really appropriate, but it feels like only Bisu has a chance against the top zergs and we all know what his starleague record is like lately. | ||
|
Xiphos
Canada7507 Posts
On September 21 2011 09:09 infinity2k9 wrote: I said on IRC at the time about the contain behind the base, and how i thought it made sense to just directly push it and elevator in like the Stork game. But clearly Fantasy practiced it enough to try and attempt it twice right? So it can't be that bad... going for the probes makes sense too. Although i do think it was better in the game 1 positions than 5 where it was totally opposite. Only Fantasy could have played this series and probably only Jangbi could have given this response.. that's what makes it seem so special to me don't you think? Any other players and it would have played out totally different. Sometimes you need players who are willing to try out things, like HiyA going for that insane wraith into nuke strategy in a quarter final game. Also i agree with the guy who said a PvZ finals next time would be really appropriate, but it feels like only Bisu has a chance against the top zergs and we all know what his starleague record is like lately. Two things: I think the whole time, it felt like JangBi was taking the initiative at every single game, except for the unscouted 14 CC by Fantasy. A lot of people have been saying (or typing if you like being a wiseass) that if Fantasy had focused better on his macro and microed his Goliaths better, he could have won the game right there. If you look at the game on La Mancha, if JangBi didn't make that stupid mistake of going for 2 unsucessful recalls and ACTUALLY used the Templar Archieve for other purprose than DTs (AKA casting storms), he could have won just as easily as Fantasy lost the last game. And to the quotations above: well its really for my own guilty pleasures. I started cheering for Zerg @ the beginning because of sAviOr but then Protoss have been losing left and right so I kinda felt sorry for them and would cheer for the Toss whenever that my favourite players aren't playing. Now that Protoss have actually won something, I can sort of feel better by going back to my original roots. But historically speaking P have been > T for a while so bringing back a PvZ matchups and actually having a Protoss won in a high caliber intense situation will make me 100% no remorse for cheering against Protoss. | ||
|
baubo
China3370 Posts
On September 21 2011 08:58 Release wrote: True but false. Fantasy fucked him self with his terrible anti interceptor micro. It was like watching an amateur right clicking a carrier. Also, containing BEHIND the base mean that ground has free path to the his main. No tank line at his nat/main. Jangbi didn't go 2-base carriers on Pathfinder because he just want to mindfuck Fantasy. Especially because he didn't even try to hide his carriers either game. Why? It should be obvious if you just go to TLPD and look at the map for a second. | ||
|
infinity2k9
United Kingdom2397 Posts
| ||
|
Vuk_91
Serbia1690 Posts
On September 21 2011 08:58 Release wrote: True but false. Fantasy fucked him self with his terrible anti interceptor micro. It was like watching an amateur right clicking a carrier. Also, containing BEHIND the base mean that ground has free path to the his main. No tank line at his nat/main. So you`ve seen the game,where Jangbi goes for that counter with his ground force and now you are smart to say "Fanta should leave this or that in his natural.." Strategy used in game 1 (carriers for defense,ground army for atack)..Well at least I`ve never seen it. Did you? And if you didn`t,how can you blame a guy for not reacting properly to it? | ||
|
Sawamura
Malaysia7602 Posts
| ||
|
endy
Switzerland8970 Posts
On September 21 2011 08:58 Release wrote: True but false. Fantasy fucked him self with his terrible anti interceptor micro. It was like watching an amateur right clicking a carrier. Also, containing BEHIND the base mean that ground has free path to the his main. No tank line at his nat/main. What ? Pushing behind the base was really smart as it allowed to snipe the stargates, use elevator to harass the main, and control Jangbi's natural, all at the same time. That would simply not allow Jangbi to counter as Jangbi had to keep his units in his base to defend. Fantasy simply lost this game was his horrible macro, aka "I'm in a very close final game of the OSL finals and I have 1,5k minerals floating but w/e" | ||
|
Jenia6109
Russian Federation1613 Posts
 Fantasy played not so well that's why  JangBi won then look and games that JangBi lost. He lost two sets just by throwing them. Set 2 was thrown by 2 huge suicide recalls. This playstyle (recalls) was used in 2009 when most PvT were lost by suicide recalls. In 2010-2011 Protoss became to use more statis then recall and became to win more games with it. And now JangBi again used recalls just to throw whole his limit to death.Set 4 was in JangBi hands only if he destroyed that floating CC. But he flied for 2 minutes around Fantasy fortress for nothing.I agree that JangBi could easily lose in Set 5 but he also could win this series by winning 3-0 or 3-1 by not making these huge mistakes in Set 2 and Set 4. | ||
|
_Quasar_
Russian Federation4405 Posts
| ||
|
Jenia6109
Russian Federation1613 Posts
On September 21 2011 16:26 _Quasar_ wrote: Why everyone keeps saying about that floating CC in set 4 explain to me somebody pls? If he went for CC, he would likely lose all his pylons and be eliminated. Wouldn't he? O_o He could destroy that CC with just one goon. With reaver/shuttle/dragoon micro he could hold every tank attack (there were only about 3 tanks in the end). At least he could try this, not just waiting when Terran will recover his economy... | ||
|
Gummy
United States2180 Posts
On September 21 2011 16:26 _Quasar_ wrote: Why everyone keeps saying about that floating CC in set 4 explain to me somebody pls? If he went for CC, he would likely lose all his pylons and be eliminated. Wouldn't he? O_o He only needed 1-2 goons to shoot at the CC to kill it. Shuttle + reaver micro would have made it impossible for fantasy to push on the proxied pylons. In game 2, though, those recalls were suicide recalls, but Jangbi didn't really have any other choice. He had to make something happen and fast, so he just decided to throw a hail mary. It expectedly failed to pan out. | ||
|
lFrost
United States295 Posts
On September 21 2011 16:56 Gummy wrote: He only needed 1-2 goons to shoot at the CC to kill it. Shuttle + reaver micro would have made it impossible for fantasy to push on the proxied pylons. In game 2, though, those recalls were suicide recalls, but Jangbi didn't really have any other choice. He had to make something happen and fast, so he just decided to throw a hail mary. It expectedly failed to pan out. yeah, not only that when his base was being pushed in set 4 if he had transferred a few probes out of his base with 1 of the 2 shuttles he could have used them to shuttle drop with reaver and probably take out all of fantasys tanks. instead jangbi let all of them continue mining and they died pointlessly. or he could have built a new nexus with the ~480minerals he had if he had elevatored a single probe out into another corner of the map, and use his whole army to kill the cc - that almost certainly would have won him the game. set 2 i feel jangbi went for the risk in dt rushing because he saw that he let fantasy get away with 14cc already (he scouted fanta's position last) so he would be playing from behind if he decided to compete in econ. instead he tries to play a risk at that point in order to have a chance to get ahead and it fails. after the dt rush failed he was behind even more so he tried another last ditch risk - recalls, and that failed too so that was over. basically he only played cheesy/risky because he was already had a disadvantageous position due to the opening build orders. and actually rushing for recall is a valid strat that has worked for him before recently (2 months ago). he went for 2 base arb recall rush and it worked perfectly against light who was ahead economically | ||
|
Ryo
8787 Posts
http://esports.dailygame.co.kr/news/album.php?id=49990 | ||
|
evanthebouncy!
United States12815 Posts
| ||
|
Ikonn
Netherlands1958 Posts
On September 21 2011 16:45 Jenia6109 wrote: He could destroy that CC with just one goon. With reaver/shuttle/dragoon micro he could hold every tank attack (there were only about 3 tanks in the end). At least he could try this, not just waiting when Terran will recover his economy... It's possible that he didn't know Fantasy only had 3 tanks | ||
|
Motivate
2860 Posts
On September 21 2011 08:58 infinity2k9 wrote: It feels like it's really shitty to try and downplay anyone's victory by just saying it was opponents mistakes, especially in this case. It's not like it was Flash vs Kwanro kinda awful. Particularly in PvT you can give the T mistakes as the reasons for loss every single P win, the T must slip up somewhere otherwise simply they would win. I mean really can someone think of a PvT where the T played almost perfectly and lost? It's not in the nature of the matchup. Jangbi already knocked out the player who plays as close to perfect TvP as you can hope for so what more do you want really :/ say what? i always thought pvt was all about how toss micros and handles the situation. storms are a good example. | ||
|
Taekwon
United States8155 Posts
On September 21 2011 17:38 Ryo wrote: Jangbi photo album, from the moment of gg to the trophy kiss: http://esports.dailygame.co.kr/news/album.php?id=49990 It's beautiful. Lighting is great! | ||
|
nitdkim
1264 Posts
On September 21 2011 16:09 Jenia6109 wrote: If somebody says that Fantasy played not so well that's why JangBi won then look and games that JangBi lost. He lost two sets just by throwing them. Set 2 was thrown by 2 huge suicide recalls. This playstyle (recalls) was used in 2009 when most PvT were lost by suicide recalls. In 2010-2011 Protoss became to use more statis then recall and became to win more games with it. And now JangBi again used recalls just to throw whole his limit to death.Set 4 was in JangBi hands only if he destroyed that floating CC. But he flied for 2 minutes around Fantasy fortress for nothing.I agree that JangBi could easily lose in Set 5 but he also could win this series by winning 3-0 or 3-1 by not making these huge mistakes in Set 2 and Set 4.honestly, nothing fantasy did that series was impactful at all. He was playing a very passive style to punish any mistake Jangbi was going to make throughout the series. The 4th set was just plain silly as Jangbi didn't handle it correctly and it was just a cheese by Fantasy. Jangbi played the series with the aim to shutdown fantasy's playstyle and force his own rhythm and it gained him an OSL badge. | ||
| ||
