EPTgame 5 was like, jangbi's got this, noo fantasys got this, no jangbi!
such a good finals!
and jangbis story was just amazing. BW HWAITING!!!!!!!
[OSL] Jin Air OSL Grand Final - Page 310
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oldgregg
New Zealand1176 Posts
game 5 was like, jangbi's got this, noo fantasys got this, no jangbi! such a good finals! and jangbis story was just amazing. BW HWAITING!!!!!!! | ||
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theslayer922
Canada304 Posts
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PineappleLumpsToss
New Zealand2434 Posts
Really pleased for Toss to have another individual league victory. I feel for Fanta, but he's had a great season anyway, and he contributed to a great Bo5. Finally, 310 pages = win. BW hwaiting!! | ||
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ShadeR
Australia7535 Posts
On September 19 2011 04:42 Release wrote: Contrary to popular belief, i feel like this series was terribly played by fantasy. No cheese whatsoever. (2 fac isnt a cheese imo). Jangbi lost with his dt cheese but at least he tried it. Fantasy was too content with playing standard, which is not his forte. Not sure if you saw Hyde's reply. 2 fact with 12 scvs is as cheesy and allin as it gets. | ||
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BrodiaQ
United States892 Posts
Whoop whoop! My favorite dragon <3 | ||
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chocorush
694 Posts
On September 19 2011 09:41 ShadeR wrote: Not sure if you saw Hyde's reply. 2 fact with 12 scvs is as cheesy and allin as it gets. He also went 14cc, which despite being the sexiest terran opener of all time, is pretty cheesy. Edit: If boxer were in charge of the game for the last half, he would have just locked everything down, nuked them, and won. Fantasy already had the money and time to do that anyways. | ||
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a176
Canada6688 Posts
On September 19 2011 08:19 stork4ever wrote: mind games my young padawan. Fantasy knew Jangbi was expecting cheese, just like Jangbi knew Fantasy was expecting storm. They were mind fucking with each other, but Jangbi was like fuck it....channel the inner stork....two base carrier. No storm from jb is probably the biggest mind fuck in all of starcraft | ||
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Probe1
United States17920 Posts
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Ribbon
United States5278 Posts
On September 19 2011 10:46 chocorush wrote: He also went 14cc, which despite being the sexiest terran opener of all time, is pretty cheesy No it's not. It's greedy. "Economic cheese" is a stupid term. They're both big risks, but cheese and greed have very different goals. | ||
BlackMagister
United States5834 Posts
On September 19 2011 12:32 Probe1 wrote: ^^^This. Not a single storm was given that day. Completely surprised me. Well in the Fantasy vs Stork series where Stork won, Stork never won a game with his reavers. | ||
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sluggaslamoo
Australia4494 Posts
On September 19 2011 04:49 Kiante wrote: 1fac port and 2fac are both cheese. if they're not...i dunno what is. were you expecting 3 fac vulture allins or bbs or something dumb like that? 2 port into nukes? triathlon wasn't in the map pool bro 1 base battlecruiser, obvs. | ||
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RBorin
United States40 Posts
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chocorush
694 Posts
On September 19 2011 12:42 Ribbon wrote: No it's not. It's greedy. "Economic cheese" is a stupid term. They're both big risks, but cheese and greed have very different goals. Greed to the point of doing a 14cc and a BBS both have the same goal of gaining an insurmountable build order advantage that relies on surprising the opponent. Maybe you feel that cheese pivots around killing the person outright, but that's pretty silly imo. Players are good enough that small economic advantages can more or less determine a game, and huge economic advantages are guaranteed wins unless someone makes a blunder. What distinguishes cheese from not cheese is that the game is pretty much determined right at the beginning of the game before any strategic choices can be made. Either your bbs kills him and you win, or you lose. Either you die instantly after a 14cc, or you win. Maybe TvP isn't insta-win like TvZ, but I'm not going to lose sleep over it. 14cc is just as risky against Protoss as it is against zerg, and if it has worse rewards, whatever. It's an incredibly ballsy move and hardly standard. | ||
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Darathor
United States327 Posts
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Ribbon
United States5278 Posts
On September 19 2011 13:54 chocorush wrote: Greed to the point of doing a 14cc and a BBS both have the same goal of gaining an insurmountable build order advantage that relies on surprising the opponent. Maybe you feel that cheese pivots around killing the person outright, but that's pretty silly imo. Maybe, or maybe not. Both Greed and Cheese involve taking big risks and praying for an advantage, but they're subtly different. Cheese is a very aggressive opening that relies on not being scouted, such as a DT rush. It is sometimes expanded to include mid-game strategies. Greed is when you make an economic play without sufficient defense and hope you don't get attacked. All-in is a move with no followup. It can be a cheese, it can be a big attack without expanding behind it ever, it can be a last-ditch effort to win a game when you're in a terrible position, it can be doing a big early bio timing TvP (because your tech would be behind). They're pretty similar, but slightly different, and these differences are useful in conveying information quickly. 14cc is just as risky against Protoss as it is against Terran, and if it has worse rewards, whatever. It's an incredibly ballsy move and hardly standard. Not denying that. Just saying that that's called greed, and cheese means something slightly different. | ||
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HaXXspetten
Sweden15718 Posts
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red4ce
United States7313 Posts
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baubo
China3370 Posts
On September 19 2011 15:45 Ribbon wrote: Maybe, or maybe not. Both Greed and Cheese involve taking big risks and praying for an advantage, but they're subtly different. Actually, no. Greed takes on relatively little risk compared to cheese. The paper rock scissors goes along the lines of Cheese counter Greedy play Greedy play gains an opening advantage vs fairly standard play(size depending on the type of BO for both) Standard play counter cheese. And standard play in the opening stages is the most often used BO in BW. Deviations usually occur after he first scout has been driven away. Hence, cheese is the riskiest because the percentages are high that the opponent counters the build. Obviously there are way too many variations of each type of play to be that simplified. But IMO, cheese is by far the highest risk play in BW. Because generally BOs are designed to fight off cheese at the progamer level. This is why I don't understand people who want Fantasy to use forward rax or BBS. Because the counter to that is simply "Jangbi build a gateway". Literally Jangbi goes gateway first and he'd have a huge edge against Fantasy because Fantay's marine micro vs Jangbi's zealot control is a lopsided match. And there was no way Fantasy would bet the deciding game 5 on Jangbi going 12 Nex over every other build. | ||
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EtherealDeath
United States8366 Posts
On September 19 2011 16:36 red4ce wrote: Poor Fantasy. If only he were more clutch in game 5's he'd have the most OSL wins ever. Errr no? He'd only have 2, whereas Nada, Flash, July, and Jaedong(?) have 3 each. | ||
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Djabanete
United States2786 Posts
On September 19 2011 17:37 EtherealDeath wrote: Errr no? He'd only have 2, whereas Nada, Flash, July, and Jaedong(?) have 3 each. Just confirming that Jaedong has 3. In order: Nada, July, Jaedong, Flash. And I think the only double OSL winners are Boxer Garimto and Oov or something weird like that? =p | ||
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