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[SPL] Grand Finals: SK Telecom T1 vs KT Rolster - Page 397

Forum Index > Brood War Tournaments
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Prev 1 395 396 397 398 399 409 Next
moopie
Profile Joined July 2009
12605 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-08-20 00:40:20
August 20 2011 00:05 GMT
#7921
People need to lay off Park and BeSt. SKT's coaches know what their players can and can't do 100 times better than the fans who only get to watch the televised games. They spent hundreds of hours preparing for these games and analyzing KT. BeSt was definitely the right call for taking Flash out, and he played to the best of his abilities. Its unfortunate that he lost twice because fans will blame him for SKT's loss today, but Flash is the hardest player in the world to take down, even for a macro beast like BeSt. Instead of blaming either BeSt or coach Park, SKT fans should recognize all the effort they put into preparing, accept the loss and keep their spirits up until next season.

The fact that SKT got almost entirely favorable matchups should tell you their coaches know what they are doing. This is nobody's fault.
I'm going to sleep, let me get some of that carpet.
Vazze
Profile Joined August 2009
Sweden279 Posts
August 20 2011 00:19 GMT
#7922
On August 20 2011 08:54 Toadily wrote:
I just realized that it should've been 6-1 if roo somehow didn't completely fail after those initial zerglings and action actually made some units especially lurkers, even 2 lurkers would've been completely enough to hold that push and be so far ahead on econ that it would've been impossible to lose

It could've been 4-0 for SKT if Hoejjas didn't decide to cheese.
Placing that hatch on his third made s2 go defensive because he didnt scout 12 hatch and went gas before pool.
Jung Myung Hoon and Doh Jae Wook fan!
SilverSkyLark
Profile Blog Joined April 2008
Philippines8437 Posts
August 20 2011 00:22 GMT
#7923
NOOOOOOOO. How dafaq am I supposed to go to my long test now....
"If i lost an arm, I would play w3." -IntoTheWow || "Member of Hyuk Hyuk Hyuk cafe. He's the next Jaedong, baby!"
moopie
Profile Joined July 2009
12605 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-08-20 00:34:47
August 20 2011 00:24 GMT
#7924
On August 20 2011 09:19 Vazze wrote:
Show nested quote +
On August 20 2011 08:54 Toadily wrote:
I just realized that it should've been 6-1 if roo somehow didn't completely fail after those initial zerglings and action actually made some units especially lurkers, even 2 lurkers would've been completely enough to hold that push and be so far ahead on econ that it would've been impossible to lose

It could've been 4-0 for SKT if Hoejjas didn't decide to cheese.
Placing that hatch on his third made s2 go defensive because he didnt scout 12 hatch and went gas before pool.

huh?
1) HoeJJa didn't cheese
2) s2's overgas opening didn't at all depend on HoeJJa. His overlord was still in the middle of the map when he put the gas and pool down. The location of HoeJJa's expo did buy HoeJJa a few seconds of keeping s2 in the dark once s2's overlord arrived, but when it reached HoeJJa's main he knew there was another hatch.

+ Show Spoiler [vod] +
I'm going to sleep, let me get some of that carpet.
Taekwon
Profile Joined May 2010
United States8155 Posts
August 20 2011 00:36 GMT
#7925
EFF MY EFFING LIFE I MISSED IT EREFFSFA
▲ ▲ ▲
Bop4yH
Profile Joined October 2007
United States67 Posts
August 20 2011 00:37 GMT
#7926
It's just incredible how Stats and Perfective improved their game in the playoffs.
Ciryandor
Profile Blog Joined May 2010
United States3735 Posts
August 20 2011 00:37 GMT
#7927
On August 20 2011 09:05 moopie wrote:
People need to lay off Park and BeSt. SKT's coaches know what their players can and can't do 100 times better than the fans who only get to watch the televised games. They spent hundreds of hours preparing for these games and analyzing KT. BeSt was definitely the right call for taking Flash out, and he played to the best of his abilities. Its unfortunate that he lost twice because fans will blame him for SKT's loss today, but Flash is the hardest player in the world to take down, even for a macro beast like BeSt. Instead of blaming either BeSt or coach Park, SKT fans should recognize all the effort they put into preparing, accept the loss and keep their spirits up until next season.

The fact that SKT got almost entirely favorable matchup should tell you their coaches know what they are doing. This is nobody's fault.


So much THIS. SKT got what they wanted out of the match-ups, and BeSt and the Zs couldn't capitalize on it.
에일리 and 아이유 <3 - O Captain 박재혁 ・゚✧*:・*゚+..。✧・゚:*・..。 ✧・゚ :・゚* ゜・*:・ ✧・゚:・゚:.。 ✧・゚ SPARKULING ・゜・:・゚✧*:・゚✧。*゚+..。 ✧・゚: ✧・゚:*・゜・:・゚✧*::
GolemMadness
Profile Blog Joined September 2010
Canada11044 Posts
August 20 2011 00:37 GMT
#7928
Gotta feel kinda bad for Best, having to play Flash twice.
http://na.op.gg/summoner/userName=FLABREZU
Hinanawi
Profile Blog Joined July 2009
United States2250 Posts
August 20 2011 00:39 GMT
#7929
We don't know for sure if the ace choice was even Park's fault, for all we know Bisu could have said he wasn't confident for it and asked for Best to be sent out instead.

One thing's for sure, though: There wasn't a single person in that audience on either the KT or the SKT1 side who didn't want to see Flash vs Bisu for the finals.
Favorite progamers (in order): Flash, Stork, Violet, Sea. ||| Get better soon, Violet!
zeehar
Profile Blog Joined July 2010
Korea (South)3804 Posts
August 20 2011 00:42 GMT
#7930
OH YEAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAH

FINALLY A TEAM LEAGUE WIN FOR REAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAACH!!!
I AM THE UNIVERSAL CONSTANT
HawaiianPig
Profile Blog Joined July 2008
Canada5155 Posts
August 20 2011 00:45 GMT
#7931
gg
AdministratorNot actually Hawaiian.
kdgns
Profile Joined May 2009
United States2427 Posts
August 20 2011 00:51 GMT
#7932
On August 20 2011 09:24 moopie wrote:
Show nested quote +
On August 20 2011 09:19 Vazze wrote:
On August 20 2011 08:54 Toadily wrote:
I just realized that it should've been 6-1 if roo somehow didn't completely fail after those initial zerglings and action actually made some units especially lurkers, even 2 lurkers would've been completely enough to hold that push and be so far ahead on econ that it would've been impossible to lose

It could've been 4-0 for SKT if Hoejjas didn't decide to cheese.
Placing that hatch on his third made s2 go defensive because he didnt scout 12 hatch and went gas before pool.

huh?
1) HoeJJa didn't cheese
2) s2's overgas opening didn't at all depend on HoeJJa. His overlord was still in the middle of the map when he put the gas and pool down. The location of HoeJJa's expo did buy HoeJJa a few seconds of keeping s2 in the dark once s2's overlord arrived, but when it reached HoeJJa's main he knew there was another hatch.

+ Show Spoiler [vod] +
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ykBbi-K0oJc


1) HoeJJa did cheese, in zvz, hidden hatch outside of nat is pretty much cheese
2) the cheese actually backfired due to the overgas because it created 2 spots for s2 to attack with his mutas and lings, s2 simply didnt choose to abuse that fact by pushing the multiple fronts, which is an unforced error that ultimately cost him the game.
Caladbolg
Profile Joined March 2011
2855 Posts
August 20 2011 01:05 GMT
#7933
I think we all knew that SKT had the edge if the game didn't hit the ace match. Park did so well getting the favorable/best possible matchups (as someone had already said, Fanta v Roo, Bisu v Z, S2 v Z, Best v Flash, Soo v Stats... arguably only Sun v Action was unfavorable). I'm also pretty sure that they practiced the hell out of these matchups. If you have a guy who has a month to practice v Flash, then he should automatically be your ace player. I remember the criticism when SKT trumped Oz due to Fantasy's ace match vs Jaedong... Yeah sure Bisu would've been the match everyone wanted but Fantasy prepped so well for Jaedong that the risk was worth it. Besides, Park trusted Bisu if it had gone to Super Ace.

I'd have liked it if Bisu practiced for the ace, but I think he was actually meant to snipe Stats (I honestly think Fantasy, Bisu, and Soo were preparing for Stats) because once he does that KT has no way to reach the ace.
"I don't like the word prodigy at all. To me prodigy sounds like a person who was 'gifted' all these things rather than a person who earned all these talents by hard training... I must train harder to reach my goal." - Flash
Cambium
Profile Blog Joined June 2004
United States16368 Posts
August 20 2011 01:07 GMT
#7934
The better team won. T1 got all the match ups they could have possibly hoped for:

fantasy and bisu for easy wins
s2 for zvz
best for pvt against flash twice
soo for zvp

KT still managed to win, they deserved it.
When you want something, all the universe conspires in helping you to achieve it.
Kira Yamato
Profile Joined August 2011
Vietnam5 Posts
August 20 2011 01:17 GMT
#7935
Yup, I have reread the pre-game interview, and I realized it's a fucking MINDGAME.
Coark Park: "We will 4-0 or 4-1"
Coach Lee: "Oh really, so you must send BBF early, so I'll send Stats and Flash, mwuhahahah"
Coach Park *thinking* "you guys are nooobs, do you really think I will save BBF because of that, I will 4-0 you mwuahahahha"
Coach Lee: "Oh, you are smart, huh, but not enough, because here is my ultimate fucking master plan: 4 ZERG IN A ROW"

SKT coaches, audience, commentators: WTFFFFF
HiNoon
Profile Joined November 2010
United States31 Posts
August 20 2011 01:20 GMT
#7936
just one word: FLASH.

The last, the best.

BW brings tears of joy to all young KT fans <3
ThorZaIN / HuK / HerO / iNcontroL / MKP / IdrA / State <3
nodnod
Profile Joined April 2011
New Zealand172 Posts
August 20 2011 01:29 GMT
#7937
Grats KT. I think KT was better prepared coming into the finals. They had the right combination of cheese and standard play. Of course, not all of the cheeses paid off, e.g., game 1, but overall the calculated risk paid off. I think SKT suffered the problem of being over-confident in the abilities of their players to be reactive to KT's play and still came out ahead, again in game 1 this was the case, but in the ace match this was their downfall, e.g., Flash dictated where Best would plant his third by the ebay placement, which was a brilliant move by Flash I thought.

Basically I think KT won because they were proactive and SKT lost because they were reactive.
TwoToneTerran
Profile Joined March 2009
United States8841 Posts
August 20 2011 01:42 GMT
#7938
On August 20 2011 09:51 kdgns wrote:
Show nested quote +
On August 20 2011 09:24 moopie wrote:
On August 20 2011 09:19 Vazze wrote:
On August 20 2011 08:54 Toadily wrote:
I just realized that it should've been 6-1 if roo somehow didn't completely fail after those initial zerglings and action actually made some units especially lurkers, even 2 lurkers would've been completely enough to hold that push and be so far ahead on econ that it would've been impossible to lose

It could've been 4-0 for SKT if Hoejjas didn't decide to cheese.
Placing that hatch on his third made s2 go defensive because he didnt scout 12 hatch and went gas before pool.

huh?
1) HoeJJa didn't cheese
2) s2's overgas opening didn't at all depend on HoeJJa. His overlord was still in the middle of the map when he put the gas and pool down. The location of HoeJJa's expo did buy HoeJJa a few seconds of keeping s2 in the dark once s2's overlord arrived, but when it reached HoeJJa's main he knew there was another hatch.

+ Show Spoiler [vod] +
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ykBbi-K0oJc


1) HoeJJa did cheese, in zvz, hidden hatch outside of nat is pretty much cheese
2) the cheese actually backfired due to the overgas because it created 2 spots for s2 to attack with his mutas and lings, s2 simply didnt choose to abuse that fact by pushing the multiple fronts, which is an unforced error that ultimately cost him the game.


Maybe if the hatch is in your opponent's main it's cheese. When it's at another base entirely to gather resources? Not so much.
Remember Violet.
Keone
Profile Joined April 2011
United States812 Posts
August 20 2011 01:43 GMT
#7939
On August 20 2011 09:37 GolemMadness wrote:
Gotta feel kinda bad for Best, having to play Flash twice.

Not at all.

I am 100% positive that Best was training JUST to snipe Flash. Why else would he be sent out in ACE? I'm pretty sure SKT coaches got exactly what they wanted... they just couldn't make it work in the actual games.
BW Forever. Flash is the Ultimate Bonjwa.
nodule
Profile Joined February 2008
Canada931 Posts
August 20 2011 01:49 GMT
#7940
On August 20 2011 10:42 TwoToneTerran wrote:
Show nested quote +
On August 20 2011 09:51 kdgns wrote:
On August 20 2011 09:24 moopie wrote:
On August 20 2011 09:19 Vazze wrote:
On August 20 2011 08:54 Toadily wrote:
I just realized that it should've been 6-1 if roo somehow didn't completely fail after those initial zerglings and action actually made some units especially lurkers, even 2 lurkers would've been completely enough to hold that push and be so far ahead on econ that it would've been impossible to lose

It could've been 4-0 for SKT if Hoejjas didn't decide to cheese.
Placing that hatch on his third made s2 go defensive because he didnt scout 12 hatch and went gas before pool.

huh?
1) HoeJJa didn't cheese
2) s2's overgas opening didn't at all depend on HoeJJa. His overlord was still in the middle of the map when he put the gas and pool down. The location of HoeJJa's expo did buy HoeJJa a few seconds of keeping s2 in the dark once s2's overlord arrived, but when it reached HoeJJa's main he knew there was another hatch.

+ Show Spoiler [vod] +
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ykBbi-K0oJc


1) HoeJJa did cheese, in zvz, hidden hatch outside of nat is pretty much cheese
2) the cheese actually backfired due to the overgas because it created 2 spots for s2 to attack with his mutas and lings, s2 simply didnt choose to abuse that fact by pushing the multiple fronts, which is an unforced error that ultimately cost him the game.


Maybe if the hatch is in your opponent's main it's cheese. When it's at another base entirely to gather resources? Not so much.


Exactly. It's not like every possible misdirection is cheese. Not to mention that this is a case of a risky economic opening (and I completely reject the concept of "econ cheese")
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