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On November 13 2010 15:58 bludragen88 wrote:
Couldn't Jaedong have A. Expanded or B. Destroyed the nat (where the lair was) and just out turtled zero? After he split the nat and main, zero lost most of his drones so they were on even footing it seemed...
to my limited zvz knowledge
A) no he couldn't have expanded because he was on like 5-6 drones mining minerals and 2 on gas i think. 2 drones were sniped from zero's lings, and jaedong started off with the poorest build, so to save up 300 minerals, keep up muta/ling count - simply not possible. plus for the expansion to come into effect would take time, by which zero (with a faster expansion) would've rolled him
B) supposedly yes, but I think the main reason why he didn't was because zero was so high in drone count. zero had i think at least double the drones jaedong had..
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On November 13 2010 15:59 radialis wrote:Show nested quote +On November 13 2010 15:57 Xiphos wrote:On November 13 2010 15:54 radialis wrote:
ok i'm going to be honest here... i was disappointed from both players. first of all, why would you 12 hatch zvz on a 3 player map? secondly, what was with all the spores? why not 1 sunken at the front?
also, when JD's lung rush failed why didn't he expand?
that's not to say this wasn't exciting as hell, but there were a few WTF moments Why would you NOT put down Spores when Mutalisk are coming and you have no Spire? That's why you call it a FAILED ling rush, he is commited, if he expand ZerO will get Spires out in time and kill JD (Zeglings are the only thing that JD has). Jesus that was the craziest ZvZ I've ever seen! Stop saying that both of them played bad! zero put down like 4 spores wtf is that? there is such thing is overkill his spore placement also wasn't great (at his nat). i think he panicked.
At this situation, ZerO just need to hold off the initial Mutas so he is doing everything he can to hold that off even by means of overdoing it and he succeeded!
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On November 13 2010 15:55 Fenrax wrote:Show nested quote +On November 13 2010 15:55 Murderotica wrote:Poll: Recommend game 7?I don't understand anything anymore (28) 60% Fuck yes (16) 34% I don't have good taste in BW (3) 6% 47 total votes Your vote: Recommend game 7? (Vote): Fuck yes
(Vote): I don't understand anything anymore
(Vote): I don't have good taste in BW
Why are people unable to polsl that dont spoil the game?
speak English???
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On November 13 2010 15:55 Fenrax wrote:Show nested quote +On November 13 2010 15:55 Murderotica wrote:Poll: Recommend game 7?I don't understand anything anymore (28) 60% Fuck yes (16) 34% I don't have good taste in BW (3) 6% 47 total votes Your vote: Recommend game 7? (Vote): Fuck yes
(Vote): I don't understand anything anymore
(Vote): I don't have good taste in BW
Why are people unable to polsl that dont spoil the game? dude its a live game thread, so why would spoilers matter if its all over?
Edit: oh its for the recommended games, my bad
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On November 13 2010 16:00 Xiphos wrote:Show nested quote +On November 13 2010 15:58 bludragen88 wrote:
Couldn't Jaedong have A. Expanded or B. Destroyed the nat (where the lair was) and just out turtled zero? After he split the nat and main, zero lost most of his drones so they were on even footing it seemed... Alright had spires up (no point anymore in destroying it). ZerO technically had a better economy with more drones = better defence against JD. ZerO JUST had to hold off the initial Mutas until his pops up and with 12 hatch from him, his economy will be stronger. You also have to know that JD had one hatch while ZerO had 2 so he can outproduce JD in numbers.
But Zero wasn't mining gas from his nat until the end of time and spend craploads on spores... plus during the initial attack by Jaedong, Zero only had a minimal amount of drones mining for a long time...
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5930 Posts
On November 13 2010 15:56 ohN wrote:
That game was something else.. Scary how good jaedong is. He might lose, but no way in hell he goes down easy.
What? Of course you don't go down easy, 12 Hatch vs 9 Pool is extremely rough when you don't have anything but drones to defend with. If anything, Zero's defense was the highlight of the game.
This wasn't a massive upset, just look at Zero's general trend in the ZvZ matchup. He's won a considerable number of his recent ZvZs and if there is a player I can expect to play well when he's confident, it would be Zero. He's whole recent career has been about his erratic performances.
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Vatican City State2594 Posts
On November 13 2010 16:00 blueblimp wrote:Show nested quote +On November 13 2010 15:56 Murderotica wrote:On November 13 2010 15:55 Fenrax wrote:On November 13 2010 15:55 Murderotica wrote:Poll: Recommend game 7?I don't understand anything anymore (28) 60% Fuck yes (16) 34% I don't have good taste in BW (3) 6% 47 total votes Your vote: Recommend game 7? (Vote): Fuck yes
(Vote): I don't understand anything anymore
(Vote): I don't have good taste in BW
Why are people unable to polsl that dont spoil the game? How is this a spoiler? Because "I don't understand anything anymore" obviously means something surprising happens. Given that it's a 9p vs 12h game, that obviously means the 12h wins. This completely defeats the point of even having recommended games in the first place. (The point isn't to feel good clicking the button.)
So you're saying that just because the result of a 12h vs 9p game is barely insinuated in the poll, people are going to be let down while watching this game? So you're saying they are going to be at the 5 minute mark, seeing Zero lose his lings, and be like "Ah he wins anyways, might as well not watch the rest" ? Really?
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On November 13 2010 16:01 We Are Here wrote:Show nested quote +On November 13 2010 15:55 Fenrax wrote:On November 13 2010 15:55 Murderotica wrote:Poll: Recommend game 7?I don't understand anything anymore (28) 60% Fuck yes (16) 34% I don't have good taste in BW (3) 6% 47 total votes Your vote: Recommend game 7? (Vote): Fuck yes
(Vote): I don't understand anything anymore
(Vote): I don't have good taste in BW
Why are people unable to polsl that dont spoil the game? dude its a live game thread, so why would spoilers matter if its all over?
You must be new here.
The polls are for people who haven't watched the goddamn games yet.
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Vatican City State2594 Posts
On November 13 2010 16:00 McDonalds wrote:Show nested quote +On November 13 2010 15:57 mustaju wrote:On November 13 2010 15:55 Fenrax wrote:On November 13 2010 15:55 Murderotica wrote:Poll: Recommend game 7?I don't understand anything anymore (28) 60% Fuck yes (16) 34% I don't have good taste in BW (3) 6% 47 total votes Your vote: Recommend game 7? (Vote): Fuck yes
(Vote): I don't understand anything anymore
(Vote): I don't have good taste in BW
Why are people unable to polsl that dont spoil the game? What did that spoil, exactly? It being good? Special? A must watch? I think that's information you should get from a RC section. I think he was trying to say that the poll implies an upset and anyone who knows the players will know what that means.
It does not imply an upset, in fact it could just as easily mean that Jaedong made some miraculous comeback, like if the tables were turned.
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On November 13 2010 16:02 Nikon wrote:Show nested quote +On November 13 2010 16:00 Xiphos wrote:On November 13 2010 15:58 bludragen88 wrote:
Couldn't Jaedong have A. Expanded or B. Destroyed the nat (where the lair was) and just out turtled zero? After he split the nat and main, zero lost most of his drones so they were on even footing it seemed... Alright had spires up (no point anymore in destroying it). ZerO technically had a better economy with more drones = better defence against JD. ZerO JUST had to hold off the initial Mutas until his pops up and with 12 hatch from him, his economy will be stronger. You also have to know that JD had one hatch while ZerO had 2 so he can outproduce JD in numbers. But Zero wasn't mining gas from his nat until the end of time and spend craploads on spores... plus during the initial attack by Jaedong, Zero only had a minimal amount of drones mining for a long time...
Well you can't really blame ZerO for that, blame JD for his failed all in with Zergling/Mutalis/Offensive Sunken Colony! 
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Vatican City State2594 Posts
On November 13 2010 16:03 McDonalds wrote:Show nested quote +On November 13 2010 16:01 We Are Here wrote:On November 13 2010 15:55 Fenrax wrote:On November 13 2010 15:55 Murderotica wrote:Poll: Recommend game 7?I don't understand anything anymore (28) 60% Fuck yes (16) 34% I don't have good taste in BW (3) 6% 47 total votes Your vote: Recommend game 7? (Vote): Fuck yes
(Vote): I don't understand anything anymore
(Vote): I don't have good taste in BW
Why are people unable to polsl that dont spoil the game? dude its a live game thread, so why would spoilers matter if its all over? You must be new here. The polls are for people who haven't watched the goddamn games yet.
You got Ninja'd
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On November 13 2010 16:00 Xiphos wrote:Show nested quote +On November 13 2010 15:58 bludragen88 wrote:
Couldn't Jaedong have A. Expanded or B. Destroyed the nat (where the lair was) and just out turtled zero? After he split the nat and main, zero lost most of his drones so they were on even footing it seemed... Alright had spires up (no point anymore in destroying it). ZerO technically had a better economy with more drones = better defence against JD. ZerO JUST had to hold off the initial Mutas until his pops up and with 12 hatch from him, his economy will be stronger. You also have to know that JD had one hatch while ZerO had 2 so he can outproduce JD in numbers.
I mean at the point after Zero tried to maynard his nat drones to main and lost those and JD was setting up shop between main and nat, he could've gone back for the nat. If he didn't bring the drones along for the sunkens, he would have had like 7 or 8 left, and zero only had like 6-7 (I would have to review vod, that's totally from my memory).. so was zero's econ really that much better anymore?
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On November 13 2010 16:04 Murderotica wrote:Show nested quote +On November 13 2010 16:00 McDonalds wrote:On November 13 2010 15:57 mustaju wrote:On November 13 2010 15:55 Fenrax wrote:On November 13 2010 15:55 Murderotica wrote:Poll: Recommend game 7?I don't understand anything anymore (28) 60% Fuck yes (16) 34% I don't have good taste in BW (3) 6% 47 total votes Your vote: Recommend game 7? (Vote): Fuck yes
(Vote): I don't understand anything anymore
(Vote): I don't have good taste in BW
Why are people unable to polsl that dont spoil the game? What did that spoil, exactly? It being good? Special? A must watch? I think that's information you should get from a RC section. I think he was trying to say that the poll implies an upset and anyone who knows the players will know what that means. It does not imply an upset, in fact it could just as easily mean that Jaedong made some miraculous comeback, like if the tables were turned.
You're reaching. Any hypothetical person could interpret it in any hypothetical way, but the average person who knows that the game is Zero versus Jaedong will interpret it as "what was supposed to happen did not happen".
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Fenrax
United States5018 Posts
On November 13 2010 16:00 Doughboy wrote:Show nested quote +On November 13 2010 15:55 Fenrax wrote:On November 13 2010 15:55 Murderotica wrote:Poll: Recommend game 7?I don't understand anything anymore (28) 60% Fuck yes (16) 34% I don't have good taste in BW (3) 6% 47 total votes Your vote: Recommend game 7? (Vote): Fuck yes
(Vote): I don't understand anything anymore
(Vote): I don't have good taste in BW
Why are people unable to polsl that dont spoil the game? My apologies, I removed the poll from the OP, my emotions took over when I made that poll :<
I can't blame you for that and I shouldn't have been so harsh, sry for that. I watched the game myself and got emotional because it was so awesome.
But those polls are for players who didnt watch the game and the "I dont understand anything anymore" with 80% gives away that the winner is the player with the BO disadvantage and who seemed behind all the time.
A simple "Yes, No, Watch if you have time" poll does not do that so I always prefer those.
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Which opening did Jaedong use? Was it 9 Pool Lair, 9 Pool Speed, or Overpool Lair?
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On November 13 2010 16:04 bludragen88 wrote:Show nested quote +On November 13 2010 16:00 Xiphos wrote:On November 13 2010 15:58 bludragen88 wrote:
Couldn't Jaedong have A. Expanded or B. Destroyed the nat (where the lair was) and just out turtled zero? After he split the nat and main, zero lost most of his drones so they were on even footing it seemed... Alright had spires up (no point anymore in destroying it). ZerO technically had a better economy with more drones = better defence against JD. ZerO JUST had to hold off the initial Mutas until his pops up and with 12 hatch from him, his economy will be stronger. You also have to know that JD had one hatch while ZerO had 2 so he can outproduce JD in numbers. I mean at the point after Zero tried to maynard his nat drones to main and lost those and JD was setting up shop between main and nat, he could've gone back for the nat. If he didn't bring the drones along for the sunkens, he would have had like 7 or 8 left, and zero only had like 6-7 (I would have to review vod, that's totally from my memory).. so was zero's econ really that much better anymore?
Yeah! Cuz that will take off less time for ZerO to build up his own Muta forces, NO way JD can kill off the Nat's hatchery in that short amount of time. ZerO can save up Larvae and have like 4 Mutas out and OH remember that ZerO also manage to get Scourge out in time to hit on JD's Mutas.
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On November 13 2010 16:04 bludragen88 wrote:Show nested quote +On November 13 2010 16:00 Xiphos wrote:On November 13 2010 15:58 bludragen88 wrote:
Couldn't Jaedong have A. Expanded or B. Destroyed the nat (where the lair was) and just out turtled zero? After he split the nat and main, zero lost most of his drones so they were on even footing it seemed... Alright had spires up (no point anymore in destroying it). ZerO technically had a better economy with more drones = better defence against JD. ZerO JUST had to hold off the initial Mutas until his pops up and with 12 hatch from him, his economy will be stronger. You also have to know that JD had one hatch while ZerO had 2 so he can outproduce JD in numbers. I mean at the point after Zero tried to maynard his nat drones to main and lost those and JD was setting up shop between main and nat, he could've gone back for the nat. If he didn't bring the drones along for the sunkens, he would have had like 7 or 8 left, and zero only had like 6-7 (I would have to review vod, that's totally from my memory).. so was zero's econ really that much better anymore?
ZerO had approximately 3 times as many drones as JD. His economy was so much better than he was guaranteed to win eventually if JD couldn't seal the deal.
That being said, ZerO almost blew it by not building a sunken at his nat. That was a stupid mistake.
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On November 13 2010 16:06 Severedevil wrote:
Which opening did Jaedong use? Was it 9 Pool Lair, 9 Pool Speed, or Overpool Lair?
9 pool gas
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Vatican City State2594 Posts
So like I said, if you THINK that Zero wins the game, and you see him terribly disadvantaged, it ruins the game for you? Please.
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5930 Posts
You guys are forgetting the benefits of spore colonies. For a small investment, your economy is basically immune to small mutalisk numbers (thus basically immune to mutalisk backstabs), and you can build up your mutalisk numbers without worrying about too much.
In Round 1 of last year, Effort and the CJ Zergs basically crushed a lot of zergs through accepting the initial disadvantage you tend to get when you set up spores around your economy. Time and time again, they would be able to act aggressively and throw away mutalisks to weaken the enemy's economy without worrying too much since spores would prevent any sort of air counter attacks and the enemy had to spend larvae on drones to maintain the economy required to produce mutalisks.
In the long run, if Zero didn't colossally screw up (he could have, but relying on something like this is stupid unless its the finals or something), he would pull ahead of Jaedong especially since he already had his natural hatchery up. This isn't a first time Zero beat Jaedong by sporing up like crazy and killing him through attrition, he's done it before in Winner's League last season.
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EPT
