Woongjin Stars are taking the season by storm. All they need to guarantee 2nd place at the end of round 1 is a Win against last place Hwaseung OZ, or STX SouL at 3rd (who could potentially beat SKT, putting themselves in a position to steal 2nd - should they beat Woongjin next week). But that should say it all. Woongjin just convincingly took down the defending PL champions KT Rolster 4-2, sending a message that they mean business and there's no more room for doubts about this season's Woongjin Stars. OZ? Their results mean two things: 1.) The Air Force ACE curse continues 2.) The Bo7 format has given Jaedong Oz new meaning
Explanations: Set 1:Oz's only wins on Benzene are from Princess (2-0 this round on Benzene) so it seems like an obvious choice for them. Sure, Jaedong can win on any of these maps (except for maybe Central Plains where both of his losses this round have come from), but I think they're going to want to save him for where they'll need him the most and he's shown the most success. Woongjin has plenty of options for who to open since their wins on Benzene are spread all over, and they have plenty of players who can deal with Princess. I think PianO is the most optimal choice however since he's a TvZ specialist and his results so far this season have affirmed this. He's 2-0 TvZ with kills on Hyuk, and most recently Action on this same map. PianO is in form, he should take this game.
Set 2: Hiya is 1-6 so far with his only win on Fortress (not in this map pool). But we should cut Hiya some slack considering a handful of those losses were from great players, not the least of which was Flash on EotS. ZerO just displayed an amazing comback on EotS against Hoejja and just recently beat Hiya in the Ro16 of the last OSL. ZerO is also 3-0 head-to-head overall with Hiya, and has been pretty solid this round so far (6-2 overall, 2-0 against Terran.) If that wasn't enough the layout of EotS favors ZerO's defensive management style. Sorry Hiya, the cards have really been stacked against you this round :/
Set 3: Like I said earlier, both of JD's losses are on central plains so the Oz coach probably isn't going to send him out just yet. This map has been heavy P, with most of the MUs being PvP. Backho is 0-2 on it however, with Perfectman 1-0, what do they have to lose? Answer: Another game. Free is 2-1, with his loss against BeSt being dubbed Gotw for the above par play in that game. Free is coming off a win over Tempest. While he isn't showing absolute solid play, it's been good enough to beat Perfectman. This might be the game borqke up the match though, it's all assuming both players maintain the status quo.
Set 4: This is probably going to be the match to watch. At this point Stars are almost assuredly going to be up 3-0. The Tyrant will get off his throne to bring forth annihilation. And the records tell us he should - Jaedong is 2-0 this round on Grand Line SE; 10-3 overall on the map, and 5-1 ZvZ out of those 13 games. Stars will likely choose Neo.G_Bonjwa to make his appearance, as he so often has, on this map. He's 1-1 on it this round with a recent disappointing loss to Flash. His ZvT is what's stellar, in particular on this map. However, he hasn't played much ZvZ on it (only once in a loss to great) so given Jaedong being the dong and his redic. stats in the MU and map, we can confirm the likelihood of Jaedong taking this with relative ease.
Set 5: Pretty much everyone left on Oz has lost on Icarus(Lomo and Killer) except for Backho who has yet to play on it, so it's safe to say he'll be sent. Given Backho's dismal results this round, Woongjin could either send Crazy-Hydra or Really since they're both 1-0 on Icarus, however since Really has been playing slightly better and is generally more solid he'll finish the match for Woongjin. Really's TvP is his best MU, not much to this game. Maybe we'll see some optical flares :D
Woongjin Stars 4-1 Hwaseung OZ Cmon Oz fanboys, you just gotta look at the standings and the last time these teams met in GSM. (ZerO's all-kill, see Hype pics below :3)
I hope Soulkey, Zero and Crazy Hydra face JD, killer and Princess, who are all monsters of zvz
or probably some of the Zergs gets Really, who has less than 40% wins TvZ (omfg what an oddity for a terran)
In ace match I see no one who could compete with JD. Even free can't I think. And all other decent players (despite him and Really who's oddly bad at TvZ) are zergs, we all know how much of an auto-loss this is vs JD.
I think Oz can do this... Like always, if Hiya and (pefectman or killer) can get a favorable match up and win, i think OZ can do it. Stars just doesn't have a good enough trap card to beat jDONG.
Its all about the matchups. if hiya can beat someone like Piano or crazy-hydra, Killer could maybe beat really because his TvZ still isn't too strong.
I believe in the magic of the shitty oz lineup getting 2 wins plus jdong plus ace.
On November 12 2010 09:21 TheNessman wrote: I think Oz can do this... Like always, if Hiya and (pefectman or killer) can get a favorable match up and win, i think OZ can do it. Stars just doesn't have a good enough trap card to beat jDONG.
Its all about the matchups. if hiya can beat someone like Piano or crazy-hydra, Killer could maybe beat really because his TvZ still isn't too strong.
I believe in the magic of the shitty oz lineup getting 2 wins plus jdong plus ace.
On November 12 2010 09:21 TheNessman wrote: I think Oz can do this... Like always, if Hiya and (pefectman or killer) can get a favorable match up and win, i think OZ can do it. Stars just doesn't have a good enough trap card to beat jDONG.
Its all about the matchups. if hiya can beat someone like Piano or crazy-hydra, Killer could maybe beat really because his TvZ still isn't too strong.
I believe in the magic of the shitty oz lineup getting 2 wins plus jdong plus ace.
On November 12 2010 09:21 TheNessman wrote: I think Oz can do this... Like always, if Hiya and (pefectman or killer) can get a favorable match up and win, i think OZ can do it. Stars just doesn't have a good enough trap card to beat jDONG.
Its all about the matchups. if hiya can beat someone like Piano or crazy-hydra, Killer could maybe beat really because his TvZ still isn't too strong.
I believe in the magic of the shitty oz lineup getting 2 wins plus jdong plus ace.
Neo_G_bonjwa trap card for jaedong... or free...
zero is beastly at ZvZ
One comeback win vs Hoejja doesn't count for much. If he had beastly ZvZ he'd be Jaedong
On November 12 2010 09:21 TheNessman wrote: I think Oz can do this... Like always, if Hiya and (pefectman or killer) can get a favorable match up and win, i think OZ can do it. Stars just doesn't have a good enough trap card to beat jDONG.
Its all about the matchups. if hiya can beat someone like Piano or crazy-hydra, Killer could maybe beat really because his TvZ still isn't too strong.
I believe in the magic of the shitty oz lineup getting 2 wins plus jdong plus ace.
Neo_G_bonjwa trap card for jaedong... or free...
zero is beastly at ZvZ
One comeback win vs Hoejja doesn't count for much. If he had beastly ZvZ he'd be Jaedong
On November 12 2010 09:21 TheNessman wrote: I think Oz can do this... Like always, if Hiya and (pefectman or killer) can get a favorable match up and win, i think OZ can do it. Stars just doesn't have a good enough trap card to beat jDONG.
Its all about the matchups. if hiya can beat someone like Piano or crazy-hydra, Killer could maybe beat really because his TvZ still isn't too strong.
I believe in the magic of the shitty oz lineup getting 2 wins plus jdong plus ace.
Neo_G_bonjwa trap card for jaedong... or free...
zero is beastly at ZvZ
One comeback win vs Hoejja doesn't count for much. If he had beastly ZvZ he'd be Jaedong
not enough to take the dong out !! this is not april and jaedong hasnt lost in his last 10 games not to mention he's like 26-4 in his last 30 with 2 losses coming from a bo3 vs calm and hydra, in the list of fallen heroes u find names of effort zero modesty etc etc. zero's zvz is very good but lets face it everyone is under 33% vs the dong
Barring SKT this is the toughest team possible for Oz. There is no chance Oz can win unless the non-Jaedongs can step their game up to a level we haven't seen from them before.
i hope anytime goes out there and wins the first set to fire up oz.. im rooting for oz since they're the underdog and i think woonjin will make it far anyways
Just a minor heads-up: The OP might not be updated with the first set in the lineups and results immediately as I'll be wrapping up a band performance minutes before the match starts. I should be here in time for the rest of the match for sure. If the first game happens to be fast, I'll try to update from my iphone or something lulz.
i hate bo 1 in zvz even jaedong can lose sometimes although he's 26-4 on his last 30 and won his last 10 hydra was one of the 4 losses (bo5 3-1 ) les hope jaedong is aiming to break his own rec for most zvz
Well, CH being bait for JD was good. This way their big 4 can play and if it goes to a 6th set where neither another oz zerg hasn't played they can send their TvZ sniper PianO
yay I predicted Zero v. Hiya on this map too lulz.
On November 13 2010 13:45 MountainDewJunkie wrote: Well, Hiya could beat Effort last season, I guess him beating Zero isn't too unbelievable... but now Stars is down 0-2
On November 13 2010 13:45 MountainDewJunkie wrote: Well, Hiya could beat Effort last season, I guess him beating Zero isn't too unbelievable... but now Stars is down 0-2
What was unbelievable was the level of non-play by Zero there, in my opinion. It was like he wasn't there.
On November 13 2010 13:45 MountainDewJunkie wrote: Well, Hiya could beat Effort last season, I guess him beating Zero isn't too unbelievable... but now Stars is down 0-2
What was unbelievable was the level of non-play by Zero there, in my opinion. It was like he wasn't there.
Well I guess due to Hiya's recent play, Zero kind of shut off his brain when he saw his opponent. Whoops!
Well perhaps it would've been a funnier joke if their roles were reversed but perfectman isn't a newcomer so it didn't sound like he was mixing them up on purpose >_>
On November 13 2010 14:01 Doughboy wrote: Well perhaps it would've been a funnier joke if their roles were reversed but perfectman isn't a newcomer so it didn't sound like he was mixing them up on purpose >_>
well true but hes a newcomer to not being a useless retard so it kinda works
On November 13 2010 14:01 Doughboy wrote: Well perhaps it would've been a funnier joke if their roles were reversed but perfectman isn't a newcomer so it didn't sound like he was mixing them up on purpose >_>
well true but hes a newcomer to not being a useless retard so it kinda works
Not really, if anything perfectman has been way more useless in the PAST than he has been this round (4-2), 2nd best record on Oz behind JD.
On November 13 2010 14:01 Doughboy wrote: Well perhaps it would've been a funnier joke if their roles were reversed but perfectman isn't a newcomer so it didn't sound like he was mixing them up on purpose >_>
well true but hes a newcomer to not being a useless retard so it kinda works
Not really, if anything perfectman has been way more useless in the PAST than he has been this round (4-2), 2nd best record on Oz behind JD.
On November 13 2010 14:01 Doughboy wrote: Well perhaps it would've been a funnier joke if their roles were reversed but perfectman isn't a newcomer so it didn't sound like he was mixing them up on purpose >_>
well true but hes a newcomer to not being a useless retard so it kinda works
Not really, if anything perfectman has been way more useless in the PAST than he has been this round (4-2), 2nd best record on Oz behind JD.
On November 13 2010 14:11 yoonyoon wrote: NOOOOO I thought JD be in a later game so I didn't watch the first hour, and now I find out he was the first to go =[
Isn't he first like more than half of the time? It seems like it's usually Jaedong #1, Hiya #2.
On November 13 2010 14:11 JadeFist wrote: On an unrelated note kpop is god fucking awful. I appreciate streaming but this music is complete utter shit. Did I really used to enjoy this filth?
Ugh omg.
You'll turn. Dont worry. Eventually you'll turn.You're just in the first stage of denial hehe
On November 13 2010 14:11 JadeFist wrote: On an unrelated note kpop is god fucking awful. I appreciate streaming but this music is complete utter shit. Did I really used to enjoy this filth?
Ugh omg.
It's just because all the people who stream here like Miss A and Sistar.
On November 13 2010 14:11 JadeFist wrote: On an unrelated note kpop is god fucking awful. I appreciate streaming but this music is complete utter shit. Did I really used to enjoy this filth?
Ugh omg.
I don't understand K-Pop at all. J-Pop is usually really good, but I can't stand K-Pop for some reason. :|
On November 13 2010 14:11 JadeFist wrote: On an unrelated note kpop is god fucking awful. I appreciate streaming but this music is complete utter shit. Did I really used to enjoy this filth?
Ugh omg.
A few of the songs are actually slightly catchy, but when they can't sing... yurghlfgck
On November 13 2010 14:11 JadeFist wrote: On an unrelated note kpop is god fucking awful. I appreciate streaming but this music is complete utter shit. Did I really used to enjoy this filth?
Ugh omg.
I don't understand K-Pop at all. J-Pop is usually really good, but I can't stand K-Pop for some reason. :|
On November 13 2010 14:11 yoonyoon wrote: NOOOOO I thought JD be in a later game so I didn't watch the first hour, and now I find out he was the first to go =[
Isn't he first like more than half of the time? It seems like it's usually Jaedong #1, Hiya #2.
Recently, he's been sent out in the later games, hasn't he?
On November 13 2010 14:11 JadeFist wrote: On an unrelated note kpop is god fucking awful. I appreciate streaming but this music is complete utter shit. Did I really used to enjoy this filth?
Ugh omg.
Yeah, kpop is as awful as western pop, which is to say quite a bit.
On November 13 2010 14:11 JadeFist wrote: On an unrelated note kpop is god fucking awful. I appreciate streaming but this music is complete utter shit. Did I really used to enjoy this filth?
Ugh omg.
Yeah, kpop is as awful as western pop, which is to say quite a bit.
A lot of k-pop basically is western pop right now. They're imitating popular songs and getting shitty producers like will.i.am to do the material.
On November 13 2010 14:11 JadeFist wrote: On an unrelated note kpop is god fucking awful. I appreciate streaming but this music is complete utter shit. Did I really used to enjoy this filth?
Ugh omg.
I don't understand K-Pop at all. J-Pop is usually really good, but I can't stand K-Pop for some reason. :|
On November 13 2010 14:29 Jackal03 wrote: why send piano when you have really?
killer is a horrid ZvT, but he can beat someone as crappy as piano easily...
I don't understand sending PianO at all, they should've waited for killer to have appeared, otherwise held him back. Grand Line should've been SK or Really
Okay, after a quick glance over the current Oricon charts I have to revise my earlier statement: The J-Pop and J-Rock that I like to listen to is usually good. The girl and boy groups that seem pollute the charts are easily as bad as the K-Pop stuff.
Sorry. :/
It would be so great if Oz could win this without the Ace match for once.
On November 13 2010 14:29 Jackal03 wrote: why send piano when you have really?
killer is a horrid ZvT, but he can beat someone as crappy as piano easily...
I don't understand sending PianO at all, they should've waited for killer to have appeared, otherwise held him back. Grand Line should've been SK or Really
PianO was 2-0 in TvZ this season and decent in TvZ historically. Really is coming off of a 13 game TvZ losing streak. Soulkey would be a sure win against anyone Oz has left EXCEPT for Killer.
Well technically free is ahead in head-to-heads with JD, but it's Jaedong and JD is 2-0 on Aztec so it's looking favorable for Oz in the ace. Maybe they'll fuck up and send killer lololol
I read somewhere on this site that it may be a long time before Lomo wins another game. I'm inclined to agree...his confidence seems completely shot; he's going into games to lose. The same has also happened to Perfectman--he won't be winning a game for a long ass time mark my words.
On November 13 2010 15:37 MountainDewJunkie wrote: Zero's vZ is shaky, though entertaining... Why not send Free? He's actually won a series vs JD lol + Show Spoiler +
two years ago...
But he lost the last 2 times he played JD due to early weakness in defense being exploited by hyper-aggression and his recent loss to Hydra doesn't exactly inspire any confidence in being able to defend that kind of thing,
I love this new ZvZ style with one person getting evos/spores. Pushing it into the mid-game and further sure as hell beats the same old 5-10 minute muta battle into gg.
On November 13 2010 15:46 Jackal03 wrote: some easy work for the dong, no idea why send zero who's not very good at ZvZ and its also not very good at playing aces...
Zero is good at ZvZ, the only problem with him is that he's a streaky player which compounds into massive blunders in such a fragile matchup like ZvZ where losing a single drone is pretty massive.
When he's not on a hot streak, he loses which is bad since when you add pressure to the situation, he basically loses.
On November 13 2010 15:51 Gatsbi wrote: OH MY FUCKING GOD I JUST JUMPED OUT OF MY CHAIR AND STARTED CLAPPING YESSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSS. ZERO YOU ARE A FUCKING CHAMPION!
ok i'm going to be honest here... i was disappointed from both players. first of all, why would you 12 hatch zvz on a 3 player map? secondly, what was with all the spores? why not 1 sunken at the front?
also, when JD's lung rush failed why didn't he expand?
that's not to say this wasn't exciting as hell, but there were a few WTF moments
On November 13 2010 15:53 erkicman wrote: I think we need an explanation here. Did Zero just save up mutas or did Jaedong just not mine the whole game?
Nice scourge by Zero, btw. Might've been the x-factor there.
I don't know how, I don't know why, but Zero just did it again. It's upsets like this that are the reason Starcraft is still the best RTS game of all time. Congrats to Zero and the rest of Woongjin for hanging on there, Oz just can't seem to catch a break.
On November 13 2010 15:54 e_i_pi_1_0 wrote: Someone please explain why JD lost 12 hatch vs 9 pool?
Cause Zero pulled off a miraculous defense against the initial rush. After that Jaedong was in huge trouble and needed to do a strong all-in to win it. He almost did it but Zero was too baller. GG.
On November 13 2010 15:54 e_i_pi_1_0 wrote: Someone please explain why JD lost 12 hatch vs 9 pool?
Jaedong did a muta/ling/offensive sunken all in. He used a lot of his drones to make buildings and apparently didn't bother to make more. Since ZerO expanded fast and managed to miraculously hold, he was able to make spores with his econ, rendering Jaedong's mutas close to useless. Jaedong made a spirited attack with zerglings but at soon as ZerO's spire went up and mutas came out, it was over for Jaedong's last all in attack.
This is really really disappointing. I was hoping to see stars losing to Oz to broaden to difference in points between SKT and stars. And now we have this, delivered from the Dong himself. Disappointed.
On November 13 2010 15:54 radialis wrote: ok i'm going to be honest here... i was disappointed from both players. first of all, why would you 12 hatch zvz on a 3 player map? secondly, what was with all the spores? why not 1 sunken at the front?
also, when JD's lung rush failed why didn't he expand?
that's not to say this wasn't exciting as hell, but there were a few WTF moments
On November 13 2010 15:53 erkicman wrote: I think we need an explanation here. Did Zero just save up mutas or did Jaedong just not mine the whole game?
Nice scourge by Zero, btw. Might've been the x-factor there.
JD pushed the main and brought drones to offensive sunken even though he had control of the nat at that point. It allowed Zero to build mutas in his main and zerglings in his nat. If he paused to destroy the nat, he might've been able to pull even. Fast expand from Zero just put him into too much of a big hole.
On November 13 2010 15:53 erkicman wrote: I think we need an explanation here. Did Zero just save up mutas or did Jaedong just not mine the whole game?
Nice scourge by Zero, btw. Might've been the x-factor there.
Spam lings from 2 hatcheries with only one gas, harass with lings, killing drones so your opponent is unable to expand. Spam spores and manage to match his muta count somewhat. To be honest I don't know how Jaedong allowed that to happen, considering that he broke Zero's ground line just before Zero's mutas popped. On paper he should've been able to safely expand due to Zero's huge investment in spores and whatnot and ruin him afterwards, but eh, everything happens once in a while.
On November 13 2010 15:54 radialis wrote: ok i'm going to be honest here... i was disappointed from both players. first of all, why would you 12 hatch zvz on a 3 player map? secondly, what was with all the spores? why not 1 sunken at the front?
also, when JD's lung rush failed why didn't he expand?
that's not to say this wasn't exciting as hell, but there were a few WTF moments
Why would you NOT put down Spores when Mutalisk are coming and you have no Spire? That's why you call it a FAILED ling rush, he is commited, if he expand ZerO will get Spires out in time and kill JD (Zeglings are the only thing that JD has). Jesus that was the craziest ZvZ I've ever seen! Stop saying that both of them played bad!
Couldn't Jaedong have A. Expanded or B. Destroyed the nat (where the lair was) and just out turtled zero? After he split the nat and main, zero lost most of his drones so they were on even footing it seemed...
It was part of the game plan. Really nukes Jaedong's BFF Lomo to put him at more rage than the normal tyrant rage, which cause Jaedong to do the proxy sunken.
On November 13 2010 15:54 e_i_pi_1_0 wrote: Someone please explain why JD lost 12 hatch vs 9 pool?
Jaedong did a muta/ling/offensive sunken all in. He used a lot of his drones to make buildings and apparently didn't bother to make more. Since ZerO expanded fast and managed to miraculously hold, he was able to make spores with his econ, rendering Jaedong's mutas close to useless. Jaedong made a spirited attack with zerglings but at soon as ZerO's spire went up and mutas came out, it was over for Jaedong's last all in attack.
On November 13 2010 15:58 bludragen88 wrote: Couldn't Jaedong have A. Expanded or B. Destroyed the nat (where the lair was) and just out turtled zero? After he split the nat and main, zero lost most of his drones so they were on even footing it seemed...
JD cut drones hard, and that ling runby from Zero killed several of his drones so he couldn't expand.
On November 13 2010 15:54 radialis wrote: ok i'm going to be honest here... i was disappointed from both players. first of all, why would you 12 hatch zvz on a 3 player map? secondly, what was with all the spores? why not 1 sunken at the front?
also, when JD's lung rush failed why didn't he expand?
that's not to say this wasn't exciting as hell, but there were a few WTF moments
Why would you NOT put down Spores when Mutalisk are coming and you have no Spire? That's why you call it a FAILED ling rush, he is commited, if he expand ZerO will get Spires out in time and kill JD (Zeglings are the only thing that JD has). Jesus that was the craziest ZvZ I've ever seen! Stop saying that both of them played bad!
zero put down like 4 spores wtf is that? there is such thing is overkill
his spore placement also wasn't great (at his nat). i think he panicked.
On November 13 2010 15:58 bludragen88 wrote: Couldn't Jaedong have A. Expanded or B. Destroyed the nat (where the lair was) and just out turtled zero? After he split the nat and main, zero lost most of his drones so they were on even footing it seemed...
Alright had spires up (no point anymore in destroying it). ZerO technically had a better economy with more drones = better defence against JD. ZerO JUST had to hold off the initial Mutas until his pops up and with 12 hatch from him, his economy will be stronger. You also have to know that JD had one hatch while ZerO had 2 so he can outproduce JD in numbers.
(Vote): Fuck yes (Vote): I don't understand anything anymore (Vote): I don't have good taste in BW
Why are people unable to polsl that dont spoil the game?
How is this a spoiler?
Because "I don't understand anything anymore" obviously means something surprising happens. Given that it's a 9p vs 12h game, that obviously means the 12h wins. This completely defeats the point of even having recommended games in the first place. (The point isn't to feel good clicking the button.)
On November 13 2010 15:54 e_i_pi_1_0 wrote: Someone please explain why JD lost 12 hatch vs 9 pool?
Jaedong did a muta/ling/offensive sunken all in. He used a lot of his drones to make buildings and apparently didn't bother to make more. Since ZerO expanded fast and managed to miraculously hold, he was able to make spores with his econ, rendering Jaedong's mutas close to useless. Jaedong made a spirited attack with zerglings but at soon as ZerO's spire went up and mutas came out, it was over for Jaedong's last all in attack.
Thanks for the explanation. Just wondering, since Zero built like 6 spores, couldn't JD have expanded during that time?
Basically for those of you who don't understand: JD was in a terrible position after the first attack failed. There wasn't much he could do to win at that point but being JD he still gave it a pretty good shot.
On November 13 2010 15:58 bludragen88 wrote: Couldn't Jaedong have A. Expanded or B. Destroyed the nat (where the lair was) and just out turtled zero? After he split the nat and main, zero lost most of his drones so they were on even footing it seemed...
to my limited zvz knowledge A) no he couldn't have expanded because he was on like 5-6 drones mining minerals and 2 on gas i think. 2 drones were sniped from zero's lings, and jaedong started off with the poorest build, so to save up 300 minerals, keep up muta/ling count - simply not possible. plus for the expansion to come into effect would take time, by which zero (with a faster expansion) would've rolled him
B) supposedly yes, but I think the main reason why he didn't was because zero was so high in drone count. zero had i think at least double the drones jaedong had..
On November 13 2010 15:54 radialis wrote: ok i'm going to be honest here... i was disappointed from both players. first of all, why would you 12 hatch zvz on a 3 player map? secondly, what was with all the spores? why not 1 sunken at the front?
also, when JD's lung rush failed why didn't he expand?
that's not to say this wasn't exciting as hell, but there were a few WTF moments
Why would you NOT put down Spores when Mutalisk are coming and you have no Spire? That's why you call it a FAILED ling rush, he is commited, if he expand ZerO will get Spires out in time and kill JD (Zeglings are the only thing that JD has). Jesus that was the craziest ZvZ I've ever seen! Stop saying that both of them played bad!
zero put down like 4 spores wtf is that? there is such thing is overkill
his spore placement also wasn't great (at his nat). i think he panicked.
At this situation, ZerO just need to hold off the initial Mutas so he is doing everything he can to hold that off even by means of overdoing it and he succeeded!
On November 13 2010 15:58 bludragen88 wrote: Couldn't Jaedong have A. Expanded or B. Destroyed the nat (where the lair was) and just out turtled zero? After he split the nat and main, zero lost most of his drones so they were on even footing it seemed...
Alright had spires up (no point anymore in destroying it). ZerO technically had a better economy with more drones = better defence against JD. ZerO JUST had to hold off the initial Mutas until his pops up and with 12 hatch from him, his economy will be stronger. You also have to know that JD had one hatch while ZerO had 2 so he can outproduce JD in numbers.
But Zero wasn't mining gas from his nat until the end of time and spend craploads on spores... plus during the initial attack by Jaedong, Zero only had a minimal amount of drones mining for a long time...
On November 13 2010 15:56 ohN wrote: That game was something else.. Scary how good jaedong is. He might lose, but no way in hell he goes down easy.
What? Of course you don't go down easy, 12 Hatch vs 9 Pool is extremely rough when you don't have anything but drones to defend with. If anything, Zero's defense was the highlight of the game.
This wasn't a massive upset, just look at Zero's general trend in the ZvZ matchup. He's won a considerable number of his recent ZvZs and if there is a player I can expect to play well when he's confident, it would be Zero. He's whole recent career has been about his erratic performances.
(Vote): Fuck yes (Vote): I don't understand anything anymore (Vote): I don't have good taste in BW
Why are people unable to polsl that dont spoil the game?
How is this a spoiler?
Because "I don't understand anything anymore" obviously means something surprising happens. Given that it's a 9p vs 12h game, that obviously means the 12h wins. This completely defeats the point of even having recommended games in the first place. (The point isn't to feel good clicking the button.)
So you're saying that just because the result of a 12h vs 9p game is barely insinuated in the poll, people are going to be let down while watching this game? So you're saying they are going to be at the 5 minute mark, seeing Zero lose his lings, and be like "Ah he wins anyways, might as well not watch the rest" ? Really?
On November 13 2010 15:58 bludragen88 wrote: Couldn't Jaedong have A. Expanded or B. Destroyed the nat (where the lair was) and just out turtled zero? After he split the nat and main, zero lost most of his drones so they were on even footing it seemed...
Alright had spires up (no point anymore in destroying it). ZerO technically had a better economy with more drones = better defence against JD. ZerO JUST had to hold off the initial Mutas until his pops up and with 12 hatch from him, his economy will be stronger. You also have to know that JD had one hatch while ZerO had 2 so he can outproduce JD in numbers.
But Zero wasn't mining gas from his nat until the end of time and spend craploads on spores... plus during the initial attack by Jaedong, Zero only had a minimal amount of drones mining for a long time...
Well you can't really blame ZerO for that, blame JD for his failed all in with Zergling/Mutalis/Offensive Sunken Colony!
On November 13 2010 15:58 bludragen88 wrote: Couldn't Jaedong have A. Expanded or B. Destroyed the nat (where the lair was) and just out turtled zero? After he split the nat and main, zero lost most of his drones so they were on even footing it seemed...
Alright had spires up (no point anymore in destroying it). ZerO technically had a better economy with more drones = better defence against JD. ZerO JUST had to hold off the initial Mutas until his pops up and with 12 hatch from him, his economy will be stronger. You also have to know that JD had one hatch while ZerO had 2 so he can outproduce JD in numbers.
I mean at the point after Zero tried to maynard his nat drones to main and lost those and JD was setting up shop between main and nat, he could've gone back for the nat. If he didn't bring the drones along for the sunkens, he would have had like 7 or 8 left, and zero only had like 6-7 (I would have to review vod, that's totally from my memory).. so was zero's econ really that much better anymore?
(Vote): Fuck yes (Vote): I don't understand anything anymore (Vote): I don't have good taste in BW
Why are people unable to polsl that dont spoil the game?
What did that spoil, exactly? It being good? Special? A must watch? I think that's information you should get from a RC section.
I think he was trying to say that the poll implies an upset and anyone who knows the players will know what that means.
It does not imply an upset, in fact it could just as easily mean that Jaedong made some miraculous comeback, like if the tables were turned.
You're reaching. Any hypothetical person could interpret it in any hypothetical way, but the average person who knows that the game is Zero versus Jaedong will interpret it as "what was supposed to happen did not happen".
(Vote): Fuck yes (Vote): I don't understand anything anymore (Vote): I don't have good taste in BW
Why are people unable to polsl that dont spoil the game?
My apologies, I removed the poll from the OP, my emotions took over when I made that poll :<
I can't blame you for that and I shouldn't have been so harsh, sry for that. I watched the game myself and got emotional because it was so awesome.
But those polls are for players who didnt watch the game and the "I dont understand anything anymore" with 80% gives away that the winner is the player with the BO disadvantage and who seemed behind all the time. A simple "Yes, No, Watch if you have time" poll does not do that so I always prefer those.
On November 13 2010 15:58 bludragen88 wrote: Couldn't Jaedong have A. Expanded or B. Destroyed the nat (where the lair was) and just out turtled zero? After he split the nat and main, zero lost most of his drones so they were on even footing it seemed...
Alright had spires up (no point anymore in destroying it). ZerO technically had a better economy with more drones = better defence against JD. ZerO JUST had to hold off the initial Mutas until his pops up and with 12 hatch from him, his economy will be stronger. You also have to know that JD had one hatch while ZerO had 2 so he can outproduce JD in numbers.
I mean at the point after Zero tried to maynard his nat drones to main and lost those and JD was setting up shop between main and nat, he could've gone back for the nat. If he didn't bring the drones along for the sunkens, he would have had like 7 or 8 left, and zero only had like 6-7 (I would have to review vod, that's totally from my memory).. so was zero's econ really that much better anymore?
Yeah! Cuz that will take off less time for ZerO to build up his own Muta forces, NO way JD can kill off the Nat's hatchery in that short amount of time. ZerO can save up Larvae and have like 4 Mutas out and OH remember that ZerO also manage to get Scourge out in time to hit on JD's Mutas.
On November 13 2010 15:58 bludragen88 wrote: Couldn't Jaedong have A. Expanded or B. Destroyed the nat (where the lair was) and just out turtled zero? After he split the nat and main, zero lost most of his drones so they were on even footing it seemed...
Alright had spires up (no point anymore in destroying it). ZerO technically had a better economy with more drones = better defence against JD. ZerO JUST had to hold off the initial Mutas until his pops up and with 12 hatch from him, his economy will be stronger. You also have to know that JD had one hatch while ZerO had 2 so he can outproduce JD in numbers.
I mean at the point after Zero tried to maynard his nat drones to main and lost those and JD was setting up shop between main and nat, he could've gone back for the nat. If he didn't bring the drones along for the sunkens, he would have had like 7 or 8 left, and zero only had like 6-7 (I would have to review vod, that's totally from my memory).. so was zero's econ really that much better anymore?
ZerO had approximately 3 times as many drones as JD. His economy was so much better than he was guaranteed to win eventually if JD couldn't seal the deal.
That being said, ZerO almost blew it by not building a sunken at his nat. That was a stupid mistake.
You guys are forgetting the benefits of spore colonies. For a small investment, your economy is basically immune to small mutalisk numbers (thus basically immune to mutalisk backstabs), and you can build up your mutalisk numbers without worrying about too much.
In Round 1 of last year, Effort and the CJ Zergs basically crushed a lot of zergs through accepting the initial disadvantage you tend to get when you set up spores around your economy. Time and time again, they would be able to act aggressively and throw away mutalisks to weaken the enemy's economy without worrying too much since spores would prevent any sort of air counter attacks and the enemy had to spend larvae on drones to maintain the economy required to produce mutalisks.
In the long run, if Zero didn't colossally screw up (he could have, but relying on something like this is stupid unless its the finals or something), he would pull ahead of Jaedong especially since he already had his natural hatchery up. This isn't a first time Zero beat Jaedong by sporing up like crazy and killing him through attrition, he's done it before in Winner's League last season.
On November 13 2010 16:09 Murderotica wrote: So like I said, if you THINK that Zero wins the game, and you see him terribly disadvantaged, it ruins the game for you? Please.
Yes. The game was exciting partially because it was so hard to tell who would pull out the win. If I knew that ahead of time, half the tension is gone.
Edit: Btw, I mostly don't get to watch games live recently, and don't have enough time to watch all of the VODs, so I rely on the Small VOD Thread + Recommended Games. Recommendations in the forms of consistently-worded polls, star ratings, and/or a couple picks of the best games of the match are great for this. Descriptions of the game (especially if they just say what happened, not whether it was good), spoilers in the poll options, etc., are annoying.
You know, what I really like about Jaedong and Flash is their perfect GG timing. In those rare moments when they lose they quit the game in the very moment when they understand there's no way to win. They know their skill, their opponents skill and the game. When Jaedong GG'd it was very surprising for me. I wasn't even sure who won. Only now I understand that his GG timing was perfect. Paradoxically, when players of such level GG it tells so much about their skill!
On November 13 2010 16:09 Murderotica wrote: So like I said, if you THINK that Zero wins the game, and you see him terribly disadvantaged, it ruins the game for you? Please.
Yes. The game was exciting partially because it was so hard to tell who would pull out the win. If I knew that ahead of time, half the tension is gone.
So just knowing the winner is enough to ruin the game, I see. Who gives a fuck how it happens amirite. If it was so even then the person doesn't know which way it will swing, JD was also at a disadvantage for a bit then looked dangerous as hell. People will be guessing till the last attack. When the sunks went down it still looked like JD would win.
On November 13 2010 16:09 Murderotica wrote: So like I said, if you THINK that Zero wins the game, and you see him terribly disadvantaged, it ruins the game for you? Please.
Yes. The game was exciting partially because it was so hard to tell who would pull out the win. If I knew that ahead of time, half the tension is gone.
So just knowing the winner is enough to ruin the game, I see. Who gives a fuck how it happens amirite. If it was so even then the person doesn't know which way it will swing, JD was also at a disadvantage for a bit then looked dangerous as hell. People will be guessing till the last attack. When the sunks went down it still looked like JD would win.
Yes, knowing the winner somewhat ruins the game. It doesn't entirely ruin it--I'll still watch my favourite players, but I'll enjoy it less. It's the same as knowing the ending to a movie before you watch it--the movie is still enjoyable, but less.
On November 13 2010 16:15 Taosu wrote: You know, what I really like about Jaedong and Flash is their perfect GG timing. In those rare moments when they lose they quit the game in the very moment when they understand there's no way to win. They know their skill, their opponents skill and the game. When Jaedong GG'd it was very surprising for me. I wasn't even sure who won. Only now I understand that his GG timing was perfect. Paradoxically, when players of such level GG it tells so much about their skill!
What about Stork vs JD? JD was just playing around with 1 overlord and 2 Ultras inside it while Stork has like 3 Archon and bunch of Zealots? lol
On November 13 2010 16:15 Taosu wrote: You know, what I really like about Jaedong and Flash is their perfect GG timing. In those rare moments when they lose they quit the game in the very moment when they understand there's no way to win. They know their skill, their opponents skill and the game. When Jaedong GG'd it was very surprising for me. I wasn't even sure who won. Only now I understand that his GG timing was perfect. Paradoxically, when players of such level GG it tells so much about their skill!
I have to disagree with you there. Flash stays in the game against all odds and waits for a miracle to happen (fantasy/leta/jd) even when it is time to GG, unless if his base is literally being overrun. Its due to that fact that he has actually come back from situations even he didn't think he would (and said in the post-game interviews how he was going to GG about 3-4 times throughout but didn't.
JD is less extreme but when he gets drawn into a macro game he doesn't want to quit, even when he has nothing left to do. In his recent game with Stork, he just sat there in his booth dripping sweat for about 5 minutes, trying to see if he can do anything with a couple of wounded ultras while Stork was still mining and producing units.
Oh Jae, omg, I feel so sorry and sad now, Zero you're one of a kind, always so interesting to watch, but Jae, I wish u lose but not in Ace, oh.nooooooo
Another strategic blunder by Jae, I bet anyting... =\
Maybe those who say JD lacks strategic pre-counting of variants are right. He should get back to practicing with Flash it seems -__- (or it was only rumours that they did so i wonder)
Hmm Jaedong not doing too too well in proleague compared to last year. He also struggled a lot in round 1 last year before bringing down the pain, hopefully he does the same thing.
OR could it be because so many of the practice partners on the pro teams left and JAedong got good from being a practice monster?
What did he do to deserve a warning anyways? It's a nice picture with a line that says (essentially) OZ is easy picking. It's pretty cool.
On the other hand, the guy above said "GW Zero" and didn't get warned. I think that's a true one-liner with no contents whatsoever.
Anyways, Star did not disappoint. I was kind of worried during the match thinking they might lose.
Someone else posted the same image eight posts before that. And it has been prominently displayed in the OP the whole time. I guess at a certain point enough is enough.
What did he do to deserve a warning anyways? It's a nice picture with a line that says (essentially) OZ is easy picking. It's pretty cool.
On the other hand, the guy above said "GW Zero" and didn't get warned. I think that's a true one-liner with no contents whatsoever.
Anyways, Star did not disappoint. I was kind of worried during the match thinking they might lose.
Someone else posted the same image eight posts before that. And it has been prominently displayed in the OP the whole time. I guess at a certain point enough is enough.
I am guessing he was warned because someone posted the same image 8 posts before, not because it was on OP. If it was because of OP, the guy that posted 8 posts before should also be warned, but he didn't. Isn't that odd?
I guess we are responsible to read every single post in the 32 pages before we post. Anyways, back to topic...
On November 13 2010 15:52 GTR wrote: 2010 best year of zvz.
I wouldn't call this the best ZvZ (edit: or a good ZvZ, for that matter... I think my wording was bad). Both sides made some clear mistakes. Especially when Zero put down a 4th colony - and most likely morphed it into a spore instead of sunken by mistake. If Zero morphed a sunken, Jaedong would have GG'ed a long time ago.
What did he do to deserve a warning anyways? It's a nice picture with a line that says (essentially) OZ is easy picking. It's pretty cool.
On the other hand, the guy above said "GW Zero" and didn't get warned. I think that's a true one-liner with no contents whatsoever.
Anyways, Star did not disappoint. I was kind of worried during the match thinking they might lose.
Someone else posted the same image eight posts before that. And it has been prominently displayed in the OP the whole time. I guess at a certain point enough is enough.
I am guessing he was warned because someone posted the same image 8 posts before, not because it was on OP. If it was because of OP, the guy that posted 8 posts before should also be warned, but he didn't. Isn't that odd?
I guess we are responsible to read every single post in the 32 pages before we post. Anyways, back to topic...
On November 13 2010 15:52 GTR wrote: 2010 best year of zvz.
I wouldn't call this the best ZvZ. Both sides made some clear mistakes. Especially when Zero put down a 4th colony - and most likely morphed it into a spore instead of sunken by mistake. If Zero morphed a sunken, Jaedong would have GG'ed a long time ago.
Thanks for backing me up man. And yes, 2010 is a very nice year for ZvZ matchup. First it was ZerO vs HoeJJa and now it's ZerO vs Jaedong. Really good ZvZ going on. But still, this game is nothing compared to ZerO vs HoeJJa.
On November 14 2010 06:21 Kyuukyuu wrote: Best year of ZvZ. We also had all those crazy hydra/lurk ones, and multiple hive tech games. Yellow vs JD? Great vs. Zero (I think)?
I hate to bump with a youtube video. But some of you probably didn't get to see it. (thanks to nevake, moktira and all the other guys uploading to youtube)