If Flash gets to play a Protoss I think they are set, or Zerg or Terran. No one on STX can touch Flash, not to mention the rest of the championship team(!!!). Looking forward to a one-sided beat down.
I hope KT won't send out Flash. He needs to conserve himself for his upcoming series against Fantasy (x2) and Leta, and is no doubt practising like mad. This should be a good opportunity for the rest of the team though, and I don't see KT losing this.
I hope we get to see some of KT's B teamers who don't normally get airtime in SPL like Barracks/ Anyppi/rOo. At least in the first couple of slots. 3rd slot could go towards Stats/Violet/ForGG, and then there is always Flash to finish the job if needed.
And I wouldn't mind KT's zerg lineup (815/HoeJJa/FireFist) making an appearance, but unfortunately that doesn't usually end well.
edit: that said, if Kal or Calm do somehow take STX to victory, I wouldn't mind too much
stx wants this win for sure - going big names first. kt sensed this and went for chin first. lets hope the power of the chin isnt too big for stx to take down, i want to see some barracks and anyppi, maybe some young(!) kt zerg or leta/hyuk
Kal ninja expo attempt scouted, he might as well GG now. not sure why stats is staying to fight with no reaver, that was a retarded move as he lost 5 goons for nothing
Neither side making a move at the moment, Kal is contained on 1 base, Stats's nat finishes.
Kal pushes down his ramp and attacks. Both players picking up their reavers, but both reavers go down. It ends with a stalemate, both players appear to have an even number of goons.
Kal sneaks an expo at 3 oclock, but Stats spots it with hoons within seconds. It is forced to cancel.
Kal once again attempts to push down his ramp with the help of a new reaver and his goons.
oh my fucking god Kal could win this game. holy shit now he's killing stat's expo. stats looked like he would hold it off by reinforcements come for Kal
Kal loses his reavers, but he did more damage to stats army and is able to run in and snipe stat's reavers. DT's still cant get into the base GG from stats. really nice comeback
Man Stats shoulda just backed out and reaped his advantage. Instead he sorta camped without reavers and backed into a corner instead of pulling back...
On August 17 2010 18:33 SubtleArt wrote: Dammit another PvP. Why can't KT send out hoejja for his zvP
While good at ZvP, Hoejja's nowhere near top ZvP or consistent, and Kal is known for being able to rape any sub-S class Zerg, while choking spectacularly to any S class Zergs.
and once again, tempest takes maybe the most important win of the night. now stx basically has no-one left who could even remotely have a chance of beating flash.
goddamit Kal, your (cross-position) 3gate on Grand Line just doesnt work, the resupply route is too long. I wonder if it works against Shuttle in practice.
On August 17 2010 18:54 Black Gun wrote: and once again, tempest takes maybe the most important win of the night. now stx basically has no-one left who could even remotely have a chance of beating flash.
Kal never had a chance though)))) Well Clam... i want to believe
On August 17 2010 18:54 Black Gun wrote: and once again, tempest takes maybe the most important win of the night. now stx basically has no-one left who could even remotely have a chance of beating flash.
Kal never had a chance though)))) Well Clam... i want to believe
Theres still shuttle though. Take him and out and yea, flash isntant kill
On August 17 2010 18:54 Black Gun wrote: and once again, tempest takes maybe the most important win of the night. now stx basically has no-one left who could even remotely have a chance of beating flash.
Kal never had a chance though)))) Well Clam... i want to believe
Theres still shuttle though. Take him and out and yea, flash isntant kill
shuttle is like fbh. he has a history of playing close and entertaining losses vs flash. hahaha oh man that 1000 gates on hbr game...
On August 17 2010 18:54 Black Gun wrote: and once again, tempest takes maybe the most important win of the night. now stx basically has no-one left who could even remotely have a chance of beating flash.
Kal never had a chance though)))) Well Clam... i want to believe
Theres still shuttle though. Take him and out and yea, flash isntant kill
Really? Do you really think STX overlooked the preparation of Flash snipers? I'm pretty sure anyone playing against KT's primary goal is picking of Flash. If there are well-practiced snipers ready nothing can really be taken for granted, especially in the WL format.
On August 17 2010 18:55 538 wrote: goddamit Kal, your (cross-position) 3gate on Grand Line just doesnt work, the resupply route is too long. I wonder if it works against Shuttle in practice.
On August 17 2010 18:54 Black Gun wrote: and once again, tempest takes maybe the most important win of the night. now stx basically has no-one left who could even remotely have a chance of beating flash.
Kal never had a chance though)))) Well Clam... i want to believe
Theres still shuttle though. Take him and out and yea, flash isntant kill
Well yeah, I forgot, Shuttle in da house, lets hope he can pull some beast shuttle macro(C)
cannon added at main mineral line but only scourge come out after spire
sunken finishes behind the wall at the nat
scourge sees the archives get placed in the main, one scourge following the suddenly fast zealots moving across the bottom of the map to 5 - but the 3rd isn't there!
doom zoom on tempest - lurkerling drop in his main
big zealot mass with a little support moving into hero's third, but a huge plague on lots of the zealots still after all the zealots die a few templar/archon/reavers still there to rape drones
damn tempest will have no bases soon - while hero still has a bunch of nonfunctional bases - hero will win the elimination race if tempest doesn't hide a pylon
On August 17 2010 19:31 Zona wrote: that was a pretty neat game - tempest looks a bit dejected as he chats with his teammates head slightly down and shaking
wonder how much hero had banked to crap out so many ultras after the tech switch
That was one of the most disappointing games I've seen if you care at all about game balance. Sure tempest played a fucking terrible lategame but hero was no better
On August 17 2010 19:34 Heimatloser wrote: may bet: time attack before the 8 minute mark. whos with me?
Fortress is great for some early agression, it would be certainly fun to see. Hell, its a map where even that weird one base mech build could work that he tried on Dreamliner a while ago :-p
On August 17 2010 19:31 Zona wrote: that was a pretty neat game - tempest looks a bit dejected as he chats with his teammates head slightly down and shaking
wonder how much hero had banked to crap out so many ultras after the tech switch
That was one of the most disappointing games I've seen if you care at all about game balance. Sure tempest played a fucking terrible lategame but hero was no better
What are you talking about tempest lost an entire NEXUS to ONE lurker...Thats just..
On August 17 2010 19:31 Zona wrote: that was a pretty neat game - tempest looks a bit dejected as he chats with his teammates head slightly down and shaking
wonder how much hero had banked to crap out so many ultras after the tech switch
That was one of the most disappointing games I've seen if you care at all about game balance. Sure tempest played a fucking terrible lategame but hero was no better
What are you talking about tempest lost an entire NEXUS to ONE lurker...Thats just..
It was 4 base vs 4 base for the longest time, and hero kept losing heaps upon heaps of units due to sloppy attacking (there was an archon with 40 fucking kills and a reaver with 29....and that attack consisted of 4 archons and a reaver)
scvs repairing each other - hero runs by 4 lings as forgg takes his gas
hero gonna lose his nat easily - 2 drones 3 lings heading towards 12 - they turn around to fight 2 rines but only 1 ling 1 drone left another rine pops out
On August 17 2010 19:48 AppleTart wrote: kt looks like they are having a good time stx is like taking this so seriously
well KT does have the pride of the proleague championship trophy to allow them to shrug off an event like this while...this tournament bears stx's name.
On August 17 2010 19:49 Zona wrote: but of course it's pretty damn difficult to defend an 8rax bunker rush with 12hatch
It can be done if u micro REALLY well. Fortress is so small though, doesn't help but yea, even as a terran i agree bunker rushes are pretty unfair cause if zerg doesnt 12 hatch they're automatically behind any other terran opening
On August 17 2010 19:55 Carnivorous Sheep wrote: Where does this conception of Calm always cheesing come from? He never cheesed ZvT, and in fact, is always getting cheesed.
And no, four Hatch fake Hydra bust is not cheese, in fact it's very macro oriented.
Only real cheese in recent memory is vs. Stats in MSL, and that's one game lol.
i think that people think that clever build = chees
On August 17 2010 19:55 Carnivorous Sheep wrote: Where does this conception of Calm always cheesing come from? He never cheesed ZvT, and in fact, is always getting cheesed.
And no, four Hatch fake Hydra bust is not cheese, in fact it's very macro oriented.
Only real cheese in recent memory is vs. Stats in MSL, and that's one game lol.
forgg still nodding in acknowledgement as he stands with his teammates so back and forth this allkill style match is time for flash? or kt not gonna care?
Bah if you called Calm's strategy "cheese" then everything nonstandard by zerg is cheese?
Calm's move was a good reaction to what he knew of forgg's build - fast factory and expo means forgoing a lot of tech and units, Forgg's build was terribly vulnerable and relied on terran's amazing ability to defend in early game with almost nothing - but it's not invincible and Calm exploited one of its vulnerabilities
On August 17 2010 20:05 Zona wrote: Bah if you called Calm's strategy "cheese" then everything nonstandard by zerg is cheese?
Calm's move was a good reaction to what he knew of forgg's build - fast factory and expo means forgoing a lot of tech and units, Forgg's build was terribly vulnerable and relied on terran's amazing ability to defend in early game with almost nothing - but it's not invincible and Calm exploited one of its vulnerabilities
Uhhh, lurkers off that drone count is cheese, dude.
Nothing wrong with cheese. ForGG just cheesed. But I mean, the DRONES.
On August 17 2010 20:05 Zona wrote: Bah if you called Calm's strategy "cheese" then everything nonstandard by zerg is cheese?
Calm's move was a good reaction to what he knew of forgg's build - fast factory and expo means forgoing a lot of tech and units, Forgg's build was terribly vulnerable and relied on terran's amazing ability to defend in early game with almost nothing - but it's not invincible and Calm exploited one of its vulnerabilities
Uhhh, lurkers off that drone count is cheese, dude.
It was "all-in" after Calm decided to cut Drones and go for it like that, but it wasn't a pre-planned cheese. It's called good reaction to seeing Forgg played like a greedy fucker and having nothing lol.
On August 17 2010 20:05 Zona wrote: Bah if you called Calm's strategy "cheese" then everything nonstandard by zerg is cheese?
Calm's move was a good reaction to what he knew of forgg's build - fast factory and expo means forgoing a lot of tech and units, Forgg's build was terribly vulnerable and relied on terran's amazing ability to defend in early game with almost nothing - but it's not invincible and Calm exploited one of its vulnerabilities
Uhhh, lurkers off that drone count is cheese, dude.
It was "all-in" after Calm decided to cut Drones and go for it like that, but it wasn't a pre-planned cheese. It's called good reaction to seeing Forgg played like a greedy fucker and having nothing lol.
Oh good, to add to the confusion of what constitutes cheese, from now on we have to distinguish between "pre-planned" and improvised cheese too.
On August 17 2010 20:05 Zona wrote: Bah if you called Calm's strategy "cheese" then everything nonstandard by zerg is cheese?
Calm's move was a good reaction to what he knew of forgg's build - fast factory and expo means forgoing a lot of tech and units, Forgg's build was terribly vulnerable and relied on terran's amazing ability to defend in early game with almost nothing - but it's not invincible and Calm exploited one of its vulnerabilities
Uhhh, lurkers off that drone count is cheese, dude.
It was "all-in" after Calm decided to cut Drones and go for it like that, but it wasn't a pre-planned cheese. It's called good reaction to seeing Forgg played like a greedy fucker and having nothing lol.
Oh good, to add to the confusion of what constitutes cheese, from now on we have to distinguish between "pre-planned" and improvised cheese too.
? What? By your logic, if a player has a big army and decides to attack with everything and it fails and he dies, he cheesed and failed?
There's a difference between 4 Pooling and seeing your opponent has nothing and massing units to attack.
On August 17 2010 20:05 Zona wrote: Bah if you called Calm's strategy "cheese" then everything nonstandard by zerg is cheese?
Calm's move was a good reaction to what he knew of forgg's build - fast factory and expo means forgoing a lot of tech and units, Forgg's build was terribly vulnerable and relied on terran's amazing ability to defend in early game with almost nothing - but it's not invincible and Calm exploited one of its vulnerabilities
Uhhh, lurkers off that drone count is cheese, dude.
It was "all-in" after Calm decided to cut Drones and go for it like that, but it wasn't a pre-planned cheese. It's called good reaction to seeing Forgg played like a greedy fucker and having nothing lol.
I agree, but adaptive cheese is still cheese.
Also this is why I said you shouldn't have been the KT rep in that article, Mr.STX fan. >:o
On August 17 2010 20:07 purpose wrote: If Terran lose its lame as gay chees......if terran chees its not chees, its just high level play thats amazing to see.....case closed!
Actually I think everyone thinks just the opposite. Scouting is a lot easier for terran in TvZ, especially early gameaa
On August 17 2010 20:05 Zona wrote: Bah if you called Calm's strategy "cheese" then everything nonstandard by zerg is cheese?
Calm's move was a good reaction to what he knew of forgg's build - fast factory and expo means forgoing a lot of tech and units, Forgg's build was terribly vulnerable and relied on terran's amazing ability to defend in early game with almost nothing - but it's not invincible and Calm exploited one of its vulnerabilities
Uhhh, lurkers off that drone count is cheese, dude.
It was "all-in" after Calm decided to cut Drones and go for it like that, but it wasn't a pre-planned cheese. It's called good reaction to seeing Forgg played like a greedy fucker and having nothing lol.
I agree, but adaptive cheese is still cheese.
Also this is why I said you shouldn't have been the KT rep in that article, Mr.STX fan. >:o
i know im a stx fan but, adaptive cheese lol?
Someone goes 3 hatch before pool, so you scout this, and 2 rax. cheese? zvp you scout toss getting one cannon, you get ling speed and make 12 lings, cheese?
If you scout the situation and your conclusion is that `if i cut workers and do X, no way he can hold it no matter what he tries from this point on`, then it isn't cheese, it's outplaying someone.
Whether that was the case this game, though, idk - didn't pay much attention to it.
On August 17 2010 20:05 Zona wrote: Bah if you called Calm's strategy "cheese" then everything nonstandard by zerg is cheese?
Calm's move was a good reaction to what he knew of forgg's build - fast factory and expo means forgoing a lot of tech and units, Forgg's build was terribly vulnerable and relied on terran's amazing ability to defend in early game with almost nothing - but it's not invincible and Calm exploited one of its vulnerabilities
Uhhh, lurkers off that drone count is cheese, dude.
It was "all-in" after Calm decided to cut Drones and go for it like that, but it wasn't a pre-planned cheese. It's called good reaction to seeing Forgg played like a greedy fucker and having nothing lol.
Oh good, to add to the confusion of what constitutes cheese, from now on we have to distinguish between "pre-planned" and improvised cheese too.
There's already no agreement on what constitutes cheese on these forums. Some people here even call greedy builds "cheese" which is rather perplexing to me. But with "cheese" as a term often thrown around in a negative way, I don't think punishing an opponent's build should be considered negatively the same way a nonstandard aggressive build performed by a player who is seen to be afraid to play another play standard is seen negatively.
Of course I don't view the latter scenario negatively either.
Flash drinking pocari sweat again! I haven't seen him drink it in ages. Did the sponsor send a new supply? Or the fans?
On August 17 2010 20:05 Zona wrote: Bah if you called Calm's strategy "cheese" then everything nonstandard by zerg is cheese?
Calm's move was a good reaction to what he knew of forgg's build - fast factory and expo means forgoing a lot of tech and units, Forgg's build was terribly vulnerable and relied on terran's amazing ability to defend in early game with almost nothing - but it's not invincible and Calm exploited one of its vulnerabilities
Uhhh, lurkers off that drone count is cheese, dude.
It was "all-in" after Calm decided to cut Drones and go for it like that, but it wasn't a pre-planned cheese. It's called good reaction to seeing Forgg played like a greedy fucker and having nothing lol.
I agree, but adaptive cheese is still cheese.
Also this is why I said you shouldn't have been the KT rep in that article, Mr.STX fan. >:o
i know im a stx fan but, adaptive cheese lol?
Did that not make sense to you? Cutting drones completely to make a ling/lurker bust off like 15 drones is pretty damn cheesey.
To differentiate from what Csheep was saying, a later game unit amassment doesn't leave you with barely saturated bases and not possible way to keep up with production, because amassing units later involves setting up an economy. :>
edit for your edit!
Someone goes 3 hatch before pool, so you scout this, and 2 rax. cheese? zvp you scout toss getting one cannon, you get ling speed and make 12 lings, cheese?
Did you cut worker production and completely forego a standard and reasonable transition into the next phase of the game to create a do-or-die attack? Then it's a cheese. 2 raxing and cutting Scvs to do it is cheese. 9pool speedling all in is cheese. Just because you didn't plan on doing it at first doesn't mean it isn't. :>
There's nothing wrong with cheese, but when you say Calm is nothing but a cheese player, and then you take a non-cheese game and be like "oh look Calm cheeses again," that's just retarded.
On August 17 2010 20:05 Zona wrote: Bah if you called Calm's strategy "cheese" then everything nonstandard by zerg is cheese?
Calm's move was a good reaction to what he knew of forgg's build - fast factory and expo means forgoing a lot of tech and units, Forgg's build was terribly vulnerable and relied on terran's amazing ability to defend in early game with almost nothing - but it's not invincible and Calm exploited one of its vulnerabilities
Uhhh, lurkers off that drone count is cheese, dude.
It was "all-in" after Calm decided to cut Drones and go for it like that, but it wasn't a pre-planned cheese. It's called good reaction to seeing Forgg played like a greedy fucker and having nothing lol.
Oh good, to add to the confusion of what constitutes cheese, from now on we have to distinguish between "pre-planned" and improvised cheese too.
There is no such thing as improved cheese.There is only pre-planed cheese the other is a reaction to the opponent and in no way a cheese.Like when you see 4 pool your are surely not going to continue your original planned build order.Thats what caml did.
On August 17 2010 20:05 Zona wrote: Bah if you called Calm's strategy "cheese" then everything nonstandard by zerg is cheese?
Calm's move was a good reaction to what he knew of forgg's build - fast factory and expo means forgoing a lot of tech and units, Forgg's build was terribly vulnerable and relied on terran's amazing ability to defend in early game with almost nothing - but it's not invincible and Calm exploited one of its vulnerabilities
Uhhh, lurkers off that drone count is cheese, dude.
It was "all-in" after Calm decided to cut Drones and go for it like that, but it wasn't a pre-planned cheese. It's called good reaction to seeing Forgg played like a greedy fucker and having nothing lol.
I agree, but adaptive cheese is still cheese.
Also this is why I said you shouldn't have been the KT rep in that article, Mr.STX fan. >:o
i know im a stx fan but, adaptive cheese lol?
Did that not make sense to you? Cutting drones completely to make a ling/lurker bust off like 15 drones is pretty damn cheesey.
To differentiate from what Csheep was saying, a later game unit amassment doesn't leave you with barely saturated bases and not possible way to keep up with production, because amassing units later involves setting up an economy. :>
Tbh i think your confusing cheese, with all in. or an all in build.
On August 17 2010 20:11 Soulforged wrote: If you scout the situation and your conclusion is that `if i cut workers and do X, no way he can hold it no matter what he tries from this point on`, then it isn't cheese, it's outplaying someone.
Whether that was the case this game, though, idk - didn't pay much attention to it.
This and what StorrZerg said. If you're sure to do damage, especially if it's because the other player is playing extra greedy, and you make that choice there and then then it isn't cheese imo. If you planned on going for a ling runby regardless and he only had 1 cannon I don't think you're able to determine if it's cheese.
Flash now oving out again with some mnm - Calm prepares to meet him with mutaling - spreads them out - mutas micro from the right - but the lings are idle to the left?!?
lurker followup for calm. takes his 3rd at bottom right main as well. looks pretty standard followup to me. Flash moving out with about a dozen marines
Flash with 2 vessels now, Calm with only 2 scourge
huh, did the vessel flash without casting irradiate? was he trying to irradiate the scourge?
Calm with a few lurkers morphing, Flash re-taking his nat - Calm flies his mutas straight into the mnm/vessels as cover for his scourge, picks off one of the 3 vessels
mutaling attack at flash's nat - a bunch of lings run by to attack the main mineral line
scoring a TON of scv kills
5 or so lurkers burrow outside flash's bridge, 2 irradiated
1 of the 3 vessels get sniped by scourge, ling backstab as flash moves out a little, ling runby trying to draw marines away from the lurks at the front, Flash doesnt fall for it bit instead lets all scvs at his main get raped. AND LOL FLASH HOLDS
omg its 2 base T vs 3 base Z come on flash, SK Terran you can do this XD. 4 scourge only hit 1 vessel once, STARSENSE FROM FLASH SAVES HIS MARINES. only loses 3 when he was almost right on top of them
On August 17 2010 20:30 Chen wrote: oh man, i really think Flash has a legit shot at this game now lol.hes got 5 vessels irradiating all the important units, 4 now that one got sniped
Still low on MnM and workers. Afew good plague/swarm will ruin his shit quickly.
lurkerling vs mnm/vessel, Flash with pretty poor numbers but kills more than he ordinarily should due to good micro (and nonexistent micro on calm's part)
2 dropships out for flash, no 3 - Flash sends his facility too far forwards - gonan lose it?
one vessel plagued
one hydra irradiated and allowed to stay alive among the other hydra...
dropships heading out - but scourge waiting - scourge fail
mnm dropped into Calm's main - taking out the spire and defiler mound
3 DROPSHIPS FOR FLASH. oh man flash almost loses his vessels to hydras, scourge are ready for the drop, one dropship down, defiler mound is sniped and so is spire
On August 17 2010 20:33 Chen wrote: man im pretty sure flash could've taken a third while doing all this dropship harass. now hes bac to 1 base with his main dried out
Ye, but I think Flash is just trying to be cute. None of the KT players seemed to take this set too seriously
was amazing how he held that muta harras and still made it into the late game. godly control but its just not enough calm with 4 saturated bases outmacroed him
On August 17 2010 17:53 mustaju wrote: Voted calm. If they play him instead of the Mollusk, we might even pull through! (At least this fanboy can still dream) EDIT: God, I need sleep.
So this is how you kill the Biomech transition, Calm abused that timing window extremely well w/ his Muta/ling attack. I notice that Terrans tend to stay on only 3 rax when they do the transition, and I guess Calm knew that too. He kept harassing by continuing to replace mutas and killing marines, while Flash couldn't reinforce fast enough due to only having 3 rax.
I expect an adjustment to the Biomech build regarding this soon.
Man wtf was that opening by Flash? Late turrets, blunders 3 marines to sunken colonies, sloppy marine vs muta micro, and completely fails to detect muta ling attack, not even building a bunker in his nat. Compare this to a few months ago when Flash played calm and somehow, out of nowhere, immediately guessed calm's 2 hatch all in. Ah well, he did play the rest of the game about as well as he could have though. I have to feel if they calm out on even footing flash would have won pretty badly
doubt kt was playing seriously. flash,forgg,coach are all laughing it up after they lose. all the teams probably feel sorry for stx since they played so bad at the end of proleague, plus stx cup is hosted in their name.
Calm must be a little embarassed for almost letting Flash back into this game Hats off to Flash for staying and putting up a fight though, made it a recommended game for sure.
After the stellar start, Calm went a little too irresponsible, but he knew he had this game in the bag all along, and remained calm (). Great multitasking defense to macro up for a very solid lurker-hydra finish.
On August 17 2010 20:38 ArvickHero wrote: So this is how you kill the Biomech transition, Calm abused that timing window extremely well w/ his Muta/ling attack. I notice that Terrans tend to stay on only 3 rax when they do the transition, and I guess Calm knew that too. He kept harassing by continuing to replace mutas and killing marines, while Flash couldn't reinforce fast enough due to only having 3 rax.
I expect an adjustment to the Biomech build regarding this soon.
Thanks for the explanation =) It looked a little weird seeing Flash back down so easily because Calm didn't do anything special.
On August 17 2010 20:39 SubtleArt wrote: Man wtf was that opening by Flash? Late turrets, blunders 3 marines to sunken colonies, sloppy marine vs muta micro, and completely fails to detect muta ling attack, not even building a bunker in his nat. Compare this to a few months ago when Flash played calm and somehow, out of nowhere, immediately guessed calm's 2 hatch all in. Ah well, he did play the rest of the game about as well as he could have though. I have to feel if they calm out on even footing flash would have won pretty badly
Flash has been practising TvT hardcore. He has three BoX against Terran coming up, I doubt TvZ is on his mind right now at all.
On August 17 2010 20:38 ArvickHero wrote: So this is how you kill the Biomech transition, Calm abused that timing window extremely well w/ his Muta/ling attack. I notice that Terrans tend to stay on only 3 rax when they do the transition, and I guess Calm knew that too. He kept harassing by continuing to replace mutas and killing marines, while Flash couldn't reinforce fast enough due to only having 3 rax.
I expect an adjustment to the Biomech build regarding this soon.
Wtf? What timing window? What transition? 3 Rax --> vessel / marine / tank push is as standard as it gets in the land of bio TvZ. You dont add the other 2 or 3 rax until your vessel comes out. Flash was playing as normal as it gets, and the muta ling attack came eons before any transition would even occur. Use common sense, the main point of the build is to be able to pressure zerg and restrict his economy with medic marine while transitioning to mech. Why would terran transition to mech while he's still in his own base?????? Also look again cause terrans have more than 3 rax when they transition
To be honest I think the KT coach shouldn't have sent out Flash at all, given Flash's really intense schedule of high level matches coming soon. But whatever.
On August 17 2010 20:38 ArvickHero wrote: So this is how you kill the Biomech transition, Calm abused that timing window extremely well w/ his Muta/ling attack. I notice that Terrans tend to stay on only 3 rax when they do the transition, and I guess Calm knew that too. He kept harassing by continuing to replace mutas and killing marines, while Flash couldn't reinforce fast enough due to only having 3 rax.
I expect an adjustment to the Biomech build regarding this soon.
I don't know if it was intended to counter the biomech transition specifically. Looked like pretty much any game Flash has lost to muta+lings in the past, though he usually GGs faster.
On August 17 2010 20:35 FireGuyX wrote: Was Flash playing serious? He should have tried to get a 3rd base earlier.
If he gave Calm any more time , he would have been run over by macro ...
I think Flash should have created a 3rd base instead of wasting resources on dropships.
Well Flash was already severely behind, so he was hoping those dropships would do enough damage for him to catch up. unfortunately, due to 1 dship being sniped and his drop getting plagued, it didn't, but if he tried to take his 3rd Calm would be overrunning him by the time it was up. He didn't have enough units to defend his 3rd regardless. All his units were running about trying to do damage so he could catch up. If he wanted to expand he would have to sit back home to defend, which would let Calm walk up with hydralinglurk + defilers and just flat out kill him.
On August 17 2010 20:41 Zona wrote: To be honest I think the KT coach shouldn't have sent out Flash at all, given Flash's really intense schedule of high level matches coming soon. But whatever.
i second that. also, i hate how windows 7 switches to the desktop when you move your mouse to the lower right side of the screen. what is the use of this?
On August 17 2010 20:38 ArvickHero wrote: So this is how you kill the Biomech transition, Calm abused that timing window extremely well w/ his Muta/ling attack. I notice that Terrans tend to stay on only 3 rax when they do the transition, and I guess Calm knew that too. He kept harassing by continuing to replace mutas and killing marines, while Flash couldn't reinforce fast enough due to only having 3 rax.
I expect an adjustment to the Biomech build regarding this soon.
Thanks for the explanation =) It looked a little weird seeing Flash back down so easily because Calm didn't do anything special.
Arvick Hero has no clue, this is as standard as it gets..
On August 17 2010 20:35 FireGuyX wrote: Was Flash playing serious? He should have tried to get a 3rd base earlier.
If he gave Calm any more time , he would have been run over by macro ...
I think Flash should have created a 3rd base instead of wasting resources on dropships.
Well Flash was already severely behind, so he was hoping those dropships would do enough damage for him to catch up. unfortunately, due to 1 dship being sniped and his drop getting plagued, it didn't, but if he tried to take his 3rd Calm would be overrunning him by the time it was up. He didn't have enough units to defend his 3rd regardless. All his units were running about trying to do damage so he could catch up. If he wanted to expand he would have to sit back home to defend, which would let Calm walk up with hydralinglurk + defilers and just flat out kill him.
Well his first drop wasn't too bad (although it was probably something he couldn't afford giving his eco situation), but Calm had his 3rd and 4th well defended from drops, and I think that's what really put a damper on the damage he could do.
Yeah! I love to see the flash-bot lose once in a while I think Calm got some serious problems with his nerves though. He played brilliantly in the beginning of the game then just threw away units in a way I've never seen from a progamer before. Really strange.
Other leagues or not it was TvZ on Fighting Spirit so it would have been nice to see a better showing by Flash.
But I gotta say there's no player that's more fun to watch when he falls way behind than Flash. He doesn't always come back but he always seems to do all the right things when his back is against the wall to at least make a game out of things. Nobody does it better than him (admittedly Terran is the race to do it with, but no other Terran comes close).
On August 17 2010 20:38 ArvickHero wrote: So this is how you kill the Biomech transition, Calm abused that timing window extremely well w/ his Muta/ling attack. I notice that Terrans tend to stay on only 3 rax when they do the transition, and I guess Calm knew that too. He kept harassing by continuing to replace mutas and killing marines, while Flash couldn't reinforce fast enough due to only having 3 rax.
I expect an adjustment to the Biomech build regarding this soon.
Thanks for the explanation =) It looked a little weird seeing Flash back down so easily because Calm didn't do anything special.
Arvick Hero has no clue, this is as standard as it gets..
:l if we're talking about the 3 tank 1 vessel push, Flash only had like 1 tank when he should've had 3, and he wasn't even adding anymore raxes when the Vessel was being built, so it looked like a Biomech transition to me. Idk might've been because the muta harass was doing a lot more damage than I thought, I'm really tired atm blah ~__~ sorry if I'm horribly off the mark, its just what it seemed like to me.
On August 17 2010 20:49 Elroi wrote: Yeah! I love to see the flash-bot lose once in a while I think Calm got some serious problems with his nerves though. He played brilliantly in the beginning of the game then just threw away units in a way I've never seen from a progamer before. Really strange.
He just got overconfident for a short while after all the damage dealt. But after he has lost those 5 lurkers on the bridge, he picked himself back up right away, denied flash any serious chance of a comeback, and macroed up for a very strong hydra-lurker transition, riding his economic advantage. He was playing it safe. As for losing many units, you cant help that in ZvT, especially against Flash's micro and multitasking in the seconds he gets bloodlust after deciding to stay in the game just for kicks.
On August 17 2010 20:38 ArvickHero wrote: So this is how you kill the Biomech transition, Calm abused that timing window extremely well w/ his Muta/ling attack. I notice that Terrans tend to stay on only 3 rax when they do the transition, and I guess Calm knew that too. He kept harassing by continuing to replace mutas and killing marines, while Flash couldn't reinforce fast enough due to only having 3 rax.
I expect an adjustment to the Biomech build regarding this soon.
Thanks for the explanation =) It looked a little weird seeing Flash back down so easily because Calm didn't do anything special.
Arvick Hero has no clue, this is as standard as it gets..
:l if we're talking about the 3 tank 1 vessel push, Flash only had like 1 tank when he should've had 3, and he wasn't even adding anymore raxes when the Vessel was being built, so it looked like a Biomech transition to me. Idk might've been because the muta harass was doing a lot more damage than I thought, I'm really tired atm blah ~__~ sorry if I'm horribly off the mark, its just what it seemed like to me.
what? Flash was pumping lots of vessels and pure MM. It didn't look anything close to a biomech transition. But since you're tired you probably missed that
On August 17 2010 20:38 ArvickHero wrote: So this is how you kill the Biomech transition, Calm abused that timing window extremely well w/ his Muta/ling attack. I notice that Terrans tend to stay on only 3 rax when they do the transition, and I guess Calm knew that too. He kept harassing by continuing to replace mutas and killing marines, while Flash couldn't reinforce fast enough due to only having 3 rax.
I expect an adjustment to the Biomech build regarding this soon.
Thanks for the explanation =) It looked a little weird seeing Flash back down so easily because Calm didn't do anything special.
Arvick Hero has no clue, this is as standard as it gets..
:l if we're talking about the 3 tank 1 vessel push, Flash only had like 1 tank when he should've had 3, and he wasn't even adding anymore raxes when the Vessel was being built, so it looked like a Biomech transition to me. Idk might've been because the muta harass was doing a lot more damage than I thought, I'm really tired atm blah ~__~ sorry if I'm horribly off the mark, its just what it seemed like to me.
You are horribly off the mark. Read my comment somewhere above for a better explanation
On August 17 2010 20:38 ArvickHero wrote: So this is how you kill the Biomech transition, Calm abused that timing window extremely well w/ his Muta/ling attack. I notice that Terrans tend to stay on only 3 rax when they do the transition, and I guess Calm knew that too. He kept harassing by continuing to replace mutas and killing marines, while Flash couldn't reinforce fast enough due to only having 3 rax.
I expect an adjustment to the Biomech build regarding this soon.
Thanks for the explanation =) It looked a little weird seeing Flash back down so easily because Calm didn't do anything special.
Arvick Hero has no clue, this is as standard as it gets..
:l if we're talking about the 3 tank 1 vessel push, Flash only had like 1 tank when he should've had 3, and he wasn't even adding anymore raxes when the Vessel was being built, so it looked like a Biomech transition to me. Idk might've been because the muta harass was doing a lot more damage than I thought, I'm really tired atm blah ~__~ sorry if I'm horribly off the mark, its just what it seemed like to me.
what? Flash was pumping lots of vessels and pure MM. It didn't look anything close to a biomech transition. But since you're tired you probably missed that
^^ I should go to sleep and watch the game again when the VOD is out, I should've just not said anything when I was falling asleep before the game started haha
On August 17 2010 20:41 Zona wrote: To be honest I think the KT coach shouldn't have sent out Flash at all, given Flash's really intense schedule of high level matches coming soon. But whatever.
KT's coaching staff has run Flash ragged for years, why would you think they would do otherwise?
I didn't see it mentioned, but it was clear Flash is going to lose. Including the showmatch with Bisu, Flash was on 12 win streak. He always drops a game after a 12 win streak lol. Better here than in some important league.
On August 17 2010 20:41 Zona wrote: To be honest I think the KT coach shouldn't have sent out Flash at all, given Flash's really intense schedule of high level matches coming soon. But whatever.
On August 17 2010 20:41 Zona wrote: To be honest I think the KT coach shouldn't have sent out Flash at all, given Flash's really intense schedule of high level matches coming soon. But whatever.
On August 17 2010 22:34 L0thar wrote: I didn't see it mentioned, but it was clear Flash is going to lose. Including the showmatch with Bisu, Flash was on 12 win streak. He always drops a game after a 12 win streak lol. Better here than in some important league.
This is actually a really good point. Flash NEVER makes it past 12 in a row, it's happened so many times now (at least 4, maybe more).
On August 17 2010 22:34 L0thar wrote: I didn't see it mentioned, but it was clear Flash is going to lose. Including the showmatch with Bisu, Flash was on 12 win streak. He always drops a game after a 12 win streak lol. Better here than in some important league.
This is actually a really good point. Flash NEVER makes it past 12 in a row, it's happened so many times now (at least 4, maybe more).
EPT![[image loading]](http://imgur.com/UB9fA.jpg)
![[image loading]](http://imgur.com/D7i9H.png)
![[image loading]](http://imgur.com/x2dvE.png)
![[image loading]](http://imgur.com/ykhOW.png)
there goes the hopes of the B-team showcasing their ownage today.
). Great multitasking defense to macro up for a very solid lurker-hydra finish.
