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On July 30 2010 21:27 Jackal03 wrote:Show nested quote +On July 30 2010 21:21 Klive5ive wrote:On July 30 2010 21:15 purpose wrote:On July 30 2010 21:05 Djin)ftw( wrote:On July 30 2010 20:55 purpose wrote:On July 30 2010 20:50 Djin)ftw( wrote:On July 30 2010 20:44 purpose wrote:
I know terran is a defensive faction, and I respect that it would not be the same without a camping faction.
But still, how hard I try, I just cant stand camping factions. There is just so disgusting to watch games were one side win without doing anything but camp. It does not matter how hard it might be bla bla bla, its just so boring it hurts.
Ohh and JD I liked you before, but after this retarded show, I hope you choke in your next 2 games.
Dude. Wow you are just a noob, is that possible? Sea cant move out because his main will be wrecked that way and given the short distance JD will be back to defend his bases in time. And JD is probably not retarded, maybe you are just frustrated because he lost? Seriously, some people in this thread are really annoying I never said Sea was disgusting for camping, I was more refering to mostly Flash but also Leta and other terrans who do it. My last point about JD might be alot due to frustraition over Terran building up, but he should have figured out early that all mutas was not going to end the game. So yea I think he fucked up big time. Learn to read before you post next time...kk thnx. lol everybody is talking about Sea vs JD for like 15 pages and then you say "turtle terrans suck" and I'm supposed to know that you talk about flash and leta but not Sea? Come now And yes, Jaedong lost because mass mut will lose at some point against mnm. Do you think he doesnt know that? But he wanted to win with mass mut anyway, sea defended well and deserves the win. I just think it's an insult calling someone like JD, one of the best zerg to ever play the game with 5 star league titles under his belt, silly/stupid/or retarded, like you. Saying he didnt micro good, his play was arrogant/cocky, his game plan sucks is ok for me. But calling him stupid is disrespectful because he probably isn't. Same for bisu and his pvt. Clearly he is one of the best p but doesn't seem to understand pvt quite well. I you would have read my post you would have noticed that the first thing I said, was that I know that terran as a faction is strong when it comes to defens and I respect that. BUT....and this part is important, I personally hate camping. I just cant stand it. I dont care if Sea or any other terran have no other chance but to camp, I still hate it. But as I said, I understand and respect it. Still sucks losing to it and sucks watching it. As for JD just because he has won 5 titles and is god with mutas does not mean he can be stupied as shit in a game and make a really bad call. People in here jump on players all the time for not adapting in games. JD is amazing but he just fucked up that game big time and he did not have to do it. First of all it was JAEDONG that dictated how that game would play out; not Sea. When you got fast low-econ mutas the Terran is forced to play like that. Secondly Jaedong did not play "stupied as shit" he play really well. He almost won the game and his micro/multitask was nothing short of incredible. Thirdly, you don't enjoy games if you don't understand what's going on. Clearly you don't appreciate the subtlety in Sea's defensive play or understand why that Muta build is strong on that map. Jaedong could have chosen a different strategy and still lost. well said, JD failed to do enought damage with 2 hatch muta (due to perfect defense from sea) and had to do a risk build (by taking the double gas middle expo) to try to get back to the game the moment JD wasn't able to do a successful harass he was very behind, that's why 2 hatch muta is very uncommon, if you don't do econ damage, you lose, while in 3 hatch you can fail to do econ damage and still win
He did do quite a bit of damage its just he refused to transition and tried to instantly end it. Sea is too good for that
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wtf is with all the upsets?
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On July 30 2010 22:58 Klive5ive wrote:Show nested quote +On July 30 2010 21:28 SneakPeek wrote:On July 30 2010 20:36 Rio wrote:
411 Apm
What a monter not sure but didnt nada own apm? 384 i think so is this really true that JD has 411 and thats not pure spamming?? go JD!!!!!  but seriously though, is JD testing some kind of build to counter against flash?? he may have just tried if this works against terran players.. but why didnt he just try it in team practice? gosh its a waste getting beaten trying to counter a hard counter of the unit you are using by outmicroing your enemy.  You make it sound like this build has never been done before. Pure muta is one of many viable Zerg builds. It's been around for many years and Jaedong has used it sucessfully many times, against the absolute best of opponents. You can't always 3 hatch muta into lurker since it becomes too predictable. This map has a short distance main to main by air and the first expansion has unpassable water terrain right next to it. This makes the map very good for muta harassment. Sea, however, was too prepared. He completely negated mining gas at his expo and turret spammed the water side. Protecting his barracks with turrets too he went straight to Valkryie and used them almost sacrificially to aoe damage the mutas and bring their health down. Once the Valkryies came out Jaedong could no longer harass the SCV line and was forced to attack the army of Sea. With SCV damage minimised Sea's economy began to grow at a steady rate whilst Jaedong's economy was relatively stuck. One of Seas strengths has always been his versatility and reactive play, he's rarely caught off guard and this was another example of that. If Jaedong pulled it off you'd be saying "wow that was easy, Jaedong is amazing etc...", the truth is it was a calculated risk that didn't quite pay off.
well i didnt watch the stream. ill check it later, but by reading the posts, JD was controlling the game forcing Sea to turtle then made valks. got that pt but what i dont understand is that he didnt switch to lurkers when he saw Sea making valks. im not against the dong about his decisions but he shouldve made hydras or scourges, something that will remove the valkyries focus out of the mutas. but since if you say Sea is that good, maybe the risk was just too great. though if Sea expected the mutas then there is the more reason for him to go lurker rather than spire.
anyways im not too familiar with the zvt builds since ive only read pvz builds in liquipedia. haha. ow ive seen this build when he was fighting upmagic, thanks for the explanation. 
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Those easy valk kills probably made JD get cocky and think Sea's just another Ssak ripoff.
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Jaedong still has major problems dealing with T, but so do all Zergs these days.
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On July 31 2010 00:04 SneakPeek wrote:Show nested quote +On July 30 2010 22:58 Klive5ive wrote:On July 30 2010 21:28 SneakPeek wrote:On July 30 2010 20:36 Rio wrote:
411 Apm
What a monter not sure but didnt nada own apm? 384 i think so is this really true that JD has 411 and thats not pure spamming?? go JD!!!!! but seriously though, is JD testing some kind of build to counter against flash?? he may have just tried if this works against terran players.. but why didnt he just try it in team practice? gosh its a waste getting beaten trying to counter a hard counter of the unit you are using by outmicroing your enemy. You make it sound like this build has never been done before. Pure muta is one of many viable Zerg builds. It's been around for many years and Jaedong has used it sucessfully many times, against the absolute best of opponents. You can't always 3 hatch muta into lurker since it becomes too predictable. This map has a short distance main to main by air and the first expansion has unpassable water terrain right next to it. This makes the map very good for muta harassment. Sea, however, was too prepared. He completely negated mining gas at his expo and turret spammed the water side. Protecting his barracks with turrets too he went straight to Valkryie and used them almost sacrificially to aoe damage the mutas and bring their health down. Once the Valkryies came out Jaedong could no longer harass the SCV line and was forced to attack the army of Sea. With SCV damage minimised Sea's economy began to grow at a steady rate whilst Jaedong's economy was relatively stuck. One of Seas strengths has always been his versatility and reactive play, he's rarely caught off guard and this was another example of that. If Jaedong pulled it off you'd be saying "wow that was easy, Jaedong is amazing etc...", the truth is it was a calculated risk that didn't quite pay off. well i didnt watch the stream. ill check it later, but by reading the posts, JD was controlling the game forcing Sea to turtle then made valks. got that pt but what i dont understand is that he didnt switch to lurkers when he saw Sea making valks. im not against the dong about his decisions but he shouldve made hydras or scourges, something that will remove the valkyries focus out of the mutas. but since if you say Sea is that good, maybe the risk was just too great. though if Sea expected the mutas then there is the more reason for him to go lurker rather than spire. anyways im not too familiar with the zvt builds since ive only read pvz builds in liquipedia. haha. ow ive seen this build when he was fighting upmagic, thanks for the explanation.
Jaedong did make a number of scourge and the valkyries didn't stay alive for very long. However they fulfilled a purpose which was to force Jaedong to attack Sea's MnM+Valkyrie ball and not harass the mineral line. Essentially the range of the valkyries negate the speed and harass potential of the mutalisks.
You're talking about transitioning but what are 0-0 lurkers going to do against 2-1 marines? I'll tell you what... die very quickly. Plus of course if the muta harass stops for even a few seconds, Sea is going to instantly move out and destroy the double gas expansion.
Once the double gas goes down the Lurker tech would be completely irrelevant as Sea's tank supported army would walk all over Jaedongs weak economy.
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Well this game remind me of Jaedong vs RuBy anyone?
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On July 30 2010 23:44 SilverSkyLark wrote:wtf is with all the upsets?
Flash played a turtling defensive style and everyone is upset about it.
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OMG sea gonna do it in both starleague.
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Is it just me or is Jaedong's muta control not that great anymore. It's kinda average. watching hyuk vs Hiya yesterday and now this, i honestly feel hyuks control vs hiya was way better.
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It sounds like JD's play was really cocky against Sea. I'm glad he lost for it, and not just because I'm a Sea fan.
This along with JD's complaining about his win over Ssak, and his comments about how he doesn't care about getting into the Ro8/Ro16 and only about winning make him seem like a player with a bad, cocky "I'm-better-than-everyone" attitude overall.
He's starting to make an antifan out of me.
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On July 31 2010 01:09 SubtleArt wrote:
Is it just me or is Jaedong's muta control not that great anymore. It's kinda average. watching hyuk vs Hiya yesterday and now this, i honestly feel hyuks control vs hiya was way better.
Well, JD has had long periods in the past where he didn't use mutas at all in ZvT. It's probably not so much his control getting worse as terrans getting better at defending against mutas. I don't know if Hyuk vs Hiya says anything about anything.
JD can still win against most progamers with just mutalisk all-ins, but he knows that his chances are even better if he gets hive tech. The map probably influenced his choice of strategy here.
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On July 31 2010 01:23 okum wrote:Show nested quote +On July 31 2010 01:09 SubtleArt wrote:
Is it just me or is Jaedong's muta control not that great anymore. It's kinda average. watching hyuk vs Hiya yesterday and now this, i honestly feel hyuks control vs hiya was way better. Well, JD has had long periods in the past where he didn't use mutas at all in ZvT. It's probably not so much his control getting worse as terrans getting better at defending against mutas. I don't know if Hyuk vs Hiya says anything about anything. JD can still win against most progamers with just mutalisk all-ins, but he knows that his chances are even better if he gets hive tech. The map probably influenced his choice of strategy here.
I'm just saying his muta control has seemed average at best these days. I was referencing the hyuk hiya game cause hyuks control in that game was way better than jaedongs today. Sure jaedongs still the overall best zerg but it just seems weird since he was known for having insane mutas (i remember hyvaa once said "except for jaedong, everyones muta control is the same")
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On July 30 2010 23:44 SilverSkyLark wrote:wtf is with all the upsets?
which ones exactly?
bisu vs leta wasn't that surprising. Bisu has lost all his recent tvps because of one thing - he doesn't like to defend his expos.
sea vs jaedong - sea is more than capable of beating jaedong. they are 50/50 in record.
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Terran slow push vs zerg is epic
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I like Flash, but I felt so bad for Zero in that game. As the game went on you could just see the sick look on Zero's face. He had no idea what to do and was almost crying. When he finally lost it's like all his spirit and life-force was gone.
If you enjoy watching cute little kids get raped, this is the game for you.
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lol...looks like jd lose on purpose...
how the bets were?
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On July 31 2010 02:04 Slow Motion wrote:
I like Flash, but I felt so bad for Zero in that game. As the game went on you could just see the sick look on Zero's face. He had no idea what to do and was almost crying. When he finally lost it's like all his spirit and life-force was gone.
If you enjoy watching cute little kids get raped, this is the game for you.
I think he got overeager attacking. Even once flash got the top right, it was 5 bases vs 7 bases, which is fine vs mech. Zero could have maxed out and waited for his money to pile up, then after losing his first wave spawn a second ultra / ling / hydra wave almost instantly. Instead he just kept suiciding units and never following up with a second attack, always giving flash ample time to rebuild his defenses.
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On July 31 2010 02:07 Inzek wrote:
lol...looks like jd lose on purpose...
how the bets were?
HAHAHAHHAAH OMFGWTFBBQ BEST JOKE OF THE YEAR! Seriously the "throwing the game jokes" are getting really fucking old/annoying.
I can't belive Bisu lost to Leta, but I haven't seen the VOD for that, and Zero vs Flash made me cry /
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EPT
