EPTThat just proves that ZerO was throwing away his units to Flash' turtle instead of utilizing those resourced more carefully?
[OSL] Ro16 Day 2 - Page 60
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Xiphos
Canada7507 Posts
That just proves that ZerO was throwing away his units to Flash' turtle instead of utilizing those resourced more carefully? | ||
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Holgerius
Sweden16951 Posts
On July 31 2010 10:57 okum wrote: Any interviews? :C Ya, me want too. There has been so few Flash interviews recently.  Pretty please? <3 | ||
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Samurai-
Slovenia2035 Posts
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sung_moon
United States10110 Posts
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DemiSe
883 Posts
On July 30 2010 20:59 Tyrio wrote: ![[image loading]](http://i28.tinypic.com/ilgirr.jpg) Haha, epic picture. Flash - ZerO game was pretty good. I'd recommend it! | ||
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Wings
United States999 Posts
Zero was playing extremely aggressively, and Flash adopted to it perfectly by turtling. I guess all you whiners saw was just turtling turtling turtling. As a terran, I saw the freaking god of defense against an opponent who was incredibly aggressive and incredibly strong. Virtually NO Terran in the WORLD can do what Flash did there, against such perfect swarms / drops by Zero. And what's all this BS about Zero "switching to guardians"?? What, really, because the "dark swarm + guardian" combo is just so excellent, isn't it? You waste so many resources going for defilers and lings, then you just somehow automatically switch to guards?? You need TIME. Zero did not have any. He needed to stop Flash from getting 1oclock at ALL costs, and that was literally just a matter of seconds, had he not constantly been bombing Flash's troops. A guardian switch would have eaten up resources/time/supply, none of which Zero had to spare in such a tight match. A muta switch may have been more viable, but considering how many freaking turrets there were on the map (did someone say 108?) and the fact that irradiate was already researched and vessels were in the air, PLUS the fact that upgrades were OBVIOUSLY not done for air (this argument applies to the guardian switch theory), Zero would have been an idiot to change at that point in the game. What did Zero do wrong? IMO it wasn't any one decisive mistake, it was a collection of smaller ones. Constantly attacking only one side of the fortress, when his army was mobile and he maybe should have tested other areas, even those with lots of turrets, because often those are the places with the least ground troops; a major drop there with swarms might have been the distraction Zero needed to buy time for 1-oclock. What else? Lurkers? Flash didn't have that many vessels flying around, and making lurkers just pisses off a terran by constantly forcing him to scan and adding to his multitasking problems. IMO Zero should have tried. Basically, this game was on a knife's edge, and Flash pulled it through with unbelievable strategy, macro, and positioning. What the hell can you guys ask for?? You blame this guy for playing defensive and turtling as if he's been doing it his entire life, which is obviously untrue, he was the m&m monster last year. Sure, progamers like to entertain, but at a certain time (major individual leagues), they don't give a shiit anymore. For players like JD, Flash... first thing is to WIN. | ||
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L0thar
987 Posts
On July 31 2010 22:59 Wings wrote: this is so stupid. everyone is hating on flash for "imba" or "lame turtling". Well if it was so damn imba/easy, WHY DONT ALL TERRANS WIN THIS WAY ALL THE TIME??? Why the hell does any Zerg (COUGH JD GOLDEN MOUSE COUGH) EVER win, if terran can just play like this??? What can you do, haters gonna hate. I bet they would be hating on him even if he solved world hunger lol. + Show Spoiler + I can even picture it...fucking imba terran, the hunger played much better, keeping his expos in third world countries saturated for so long and attacking at multiple fronts. Flash just turtled in west europe and north america and spammed food! Eh, maybe I should get more sleep... | ||
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hacpee
United States752 Posts
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revy
United States1524 Posts
Nobody should be criticizing Zero this game, I've never seen someone trade almost on even levels with Terran Mech which has reached critical mass. Those pushes by Zero were beautifully executed. To the people commenting that Zero was too focused on top right, well sure he was, that expo decided the game. If Zero held onto it Flash would have lost, if Flash took it he won for sure. Plus you have to look at it this way, when terran mech is setup with turrets+depots+mines+everything you need to send in a full wave just to get rid of all of the buildings/mines. Had Zero sent a big assault north, cleared out all that stuff then sent a big assault south he would have lost that wave without really hurting Flash's unit count. Plus he would have ceded that 1 o'clock expo MUCH earlier. I don't know what could have been done to win this for Zero. Had he gone guardians Flash would have switched his unit mix to gols+vessels. His turret forests would have bought him ample time to beat a guard switch. Lurkers weren't the right answer either I don't think, Lurkers get cut up badly by tanks and they aren't melee so you dont get the extra dps from terran splashing himself. Zero couldn't have just sat back on his hands, he needed to push Flash because otherwise mech just slow pushes to victory, anyone remember Flash v Kwanro where Flash just slow pushed/cliffed to victory? This was a beautiful game, I understand why people rage about it but thats just silly in my mind. Only Flash can play this way, and this illustrates one of Flash's greatest abilities, his many different play styles. He can Turtle (this game) he can be hyper aggressive (his October->January TvZ style // his December -> May TvP style). I do hope Flash has shaken out of his little mini slump but I suppose we will only know when we see him TvT. Good games. | ||
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SubtleArt
2710 Posts
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p14c
Vatican City State431 Posts
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dukethegold
Canada5645 Posts
Like, seriously, Jaedong BARELY pulled off this pure muta build against Mong and now he tried against Sea. | ||
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Lebesgue
4542 Posts
On July 31 2010 20:44 Samurai- wrote: yeah, interview from this and todays MSL please I second this. Please please please | ||
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moopie
12605 Posts
On July 31 2010 14:04 Holgerius wrote: Ya, me want too. There has been so few Flash interviews recently. Pretty please? <3 Nobody did the last KT PL round 5 interview either. Translators hate on KT. | ||
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hacpee
United States752 Posts
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Ideas
United States8103 Posts
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Elroi
Sweden5595 Posts
On July 31 2010 08:51 infinity2k9 wrote: I don't get why people think Jaedong is 'trying to send a message'. He's just trying to win the game, and he gets ahead of himself its pretty clear. People think that because if he only had a group of lings with his mutas (he built the grand total of 6 lings in the game) he would have won easily. It can only be some kind of statement to try to win with pure muta. On another topic. I don't think most people think that mech turtle is easy to pull of (even though it is slightly imba on the right maps. Noone can do it as Flash anyway.) What most people complain about is that it is lame. That is two different things. It's just gay to see a terran never leave his base during a 40 min game, but instead just build the base all the way to the opponent and then wait until he is out of resources. | ||
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dtnmang
Vietnam752 Posts
On August 01 2010 06:00 moopie wrote: Haters gonna hate Nobody did the last KT PL round 5 interview either. Translators hate on KT.  | ||
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Highways
Australia6103 Posts
Can win from pretty much any position. | ||
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Hautamaki
Canada1311 Posts
I think Zero's only mistake was attacking without maxing supply first. He almost broke through Flash's line with the first couple of attacks but ran out of units at the last second. Also he fought the first 1 or 2 major battles without ultras iirc. Of course, it would be easy to say that if he had waited too long for ultras or max supply, Flash's army would have been even bigger or Flash would have attacked sooner and killed him. Which basically goes to show that Flash out-played/out-timed Zero. If Zero were the better player, he'd have had better timing on his macro to make sure that he maxed and finished teching sooner to make sure that he had enough of the right units at the right time to break that push. It's not like it would be theoretically impossible for him to do so considering that Flash had his army spread over the entire diagonal axis of the map and hadn't done any attacks except for minor vulture raids up until that point. Zero had all the time and opportunity in the world to make sure that he'd be ready to attack with 200/200 fully teched when the time came; he just got out-timed and felt as though he was forced to attack at 160 without ultras. | ||
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