I think in the long run, the way in which Flash defeated JD will have a positive influence on their rivalry. Flash won by outsmarting JD. The fact that Flash lost to early aggression against Effort may have lead Jaedong to believe that Flash would go for the safer 1 Rax into FE build. As a result, Jaedong sacrificed early aggression and prepared his builds to counter Flash's late game. But Flash seemed to have predicted this reaction perfectly and went 14 CC each game. Game 3 was the one game where exception where Jaedong seemed to be one step ahead of Flash and took Flash completely off-guard but Flash's defense was too good, and Jaedong made a horrible mess of things from that point onwards by completely refusing to do any sort of transition until it was too late.

EDIT: The reason I say this is better in the long run for their rivalry is because I think future games will be much harder to predict. Up to this point, it's simply been a case of Flash playing standard which ended with a) Jaedong falling to Flash's incredible macro, or b) overcoming Flash's predictable style through superior builds designed specifically to exploit Flash's predictable style.
But now, it's going to be much harder to predict how they'll play against each other.

jonich0n

United States1982 Posts

May 29 2010 10:36 GMT

#2707

On May 29 2010 19:32 arew wrote:
After this final I can totally agree with Artosis and his words about EffOrt.
GJ FlaSh! Best terran of all time! ^_^

lol...

KristianJS

2107 Posts

May 29 2010 10:37 GMT

#2708

On May 29 2010 19:35 Garnet wrote:
This is the last place I expect to see math arguments.

I'd say the same....except it's happened before too =P

7mk

Germany10157 Posts

May 29 2010 10:38 GMT

#2709

On May 29 2010 18:49 Lebesgue wrote:
People forget that last season Flash raped Jaedong hard in OSL before the MSL final. However, before MSL Jaedong had plenty of time and opportunity to study Flash's build. He was the better player that night but the difference was stark mainly in the build order advantege. This time Flash prepared a new bunch of strats and raped Jaedong again.

I see, so when Jaedong wins it's because of build order advantage, when Flash wins it's because he's so much better and just "rapes" jaedong... right, that's great logic!!!

On May 29 2010 19:02 J1.au wrote:

Show nested quote +

More people need to read this.

what's funny is that out of those winners 2 finals were even Zerg vs Zerg.
I gotta say looking at this makes me feel sorry for protoss

On May 29 2010 19:32 arew wrote:
After this final I can totally agree with Artosis and his words about EffOrt.
GJ FlaSh! Best terran of all time! ^_^

Aha, so watching these finals made you realise that effort is a cheesy noob?

Anyways, very disappointing finals, but it woulda been really horrible if flash lost both of the finals after the performance he's shown in the past few months.

Severedevil

United States4839 Posts

May 29 2010 10:38 GMT

#2710

On May 29 2010 19:23 okum wrote:
Consensus during OSL finals: 14CC is a terrible autoloss build and Flash is such a retard for sticking to it.

Consensus during MSL finals: 14CC is a totally imba autowin build that ruins Starcraft.

Both statements have some validity - it's an economic cheese, so it's autoloss to an early rush and produces a heavy advantage against standard play. It tends to shorten games, which frustrates a lot of fans.

I love jockeying for build order advantages, so although I'm disappointed, it's hard to fault Flash; fast scouting --> fast CC, or fast nexus or fast double hatchery, isn't cheesy on a two-player map. Although waiting until after you scout to put up your first barracks/pool/gateway will probably cause your death against an all-in rush. (4pool, or proxy double rax/gateway.)

I think Jaedong should've 4-pooled in the first two matches, out of disdain for the map pool and to dissuade Flash from econ-cheese... but countering with his own econ cheese (which he did in game two) would've also worked, had Jaedong played better.

Yomi-no-Kuni

Germany333 Posts

May 29 2010 10:38 GMT

#2711

will there be any way to watch this somewhere?
i could only follow the first match and then had to leave...

infinity2k9

United Kingdom2397 Posts

May 29 2010 10:39 GMT

#2712

On May 29 2010 19:32 jonich0n wrote:
lol it's funny how people still say terran is OP when zerg have won something like 6 out of the last 8 starleagues (6 out of 7 before this final) -_-

Its just the fact when theres a good Terran player they can pull off some abusive builds that look very annoying to a spectator. Things like 12/14CC where standard play against it will put you way behind, bunker rushing with no economic disdvantage, bunker rush -> 1 vulture -> 1 wraith so it does get people frustrated. Its like ZvP in that respect.

5unrise

New Zealand646 Posts

May 29 2010 10:39 GMT

#2713

On May 29 2010 19:32 jonich0n wrote:
lol it's funny how people still say terran is OP when zerg have won something like 6 out of the last 8 starleagues (6 out of 7 before this final) -_-

Terran is OP OP OP, nothing nobody says will change that

User was temp banned for this post.

darktreb

United States3016 Posts

May 29 2010 10:40 GMT

#2714

On May 29 2010 19:38 Yomi-no-Kuni wrote:
will there be any way to watch this somewhere?
i could only follow the first match and then had to leave...

http://www.soku.com/search_video/q_msl/orderby_2

http://www.clipnabber.com if the stream is slow, just download the videos first

KristianJS

2107 Posts

May 29 2010 10:40 GMT

#2715

On May 29 2010 19:38 Yomi-no-Kuni wrote:
will there be any way to watch this somewhere?
i could only follow the first match and then had to leave...

It's already being uploaded on the Jon747 youtube account

link18

Croatia65 Posts

May 29 2010 10:40 GMT

#2716

Very dissapointed in JD decision making, going 12 hatch every game. Bad scourge micro and TERRIBLE decisions in game 2(should have went muta ling in Flash natural and turtle with sunks and lurks).

Game one also pretty much retarded build, it almost never works when you skip mid game units.

And game 3 was just painful to watch-JD throwing away 20+ hyrdras on 2 bunks.If you watch game 3 again you can notice that Jd even came close to killing that push when tanks sieged below natural.

If he had those hydras he wasted he would have easily killed that push.Just abuse mech immobility and snipe tank or a couple of gols, and when tanks siege just move back.Repeat.

I really dont know what was JD thinking.Overall just poor games by him.

Of course props to Flash for making well executed builds, i really liked the build in the first game, fast vessel play.
I want a PvZ finals again for once.That would be epic.

jonich0n

United States1982 Posts

May 29 2010 10:41 GMT

#2717

This title is Flash's. Yes, he just lost OSL to EffOrt, but he lost because EffOrt played like a newbie. The complete randomness of EffOrt's play caused Flash to lose, not Flash slumping or burning out. Flash has to be insanely upset at this loss to a much inferior player. I believe he will bring everything he has to the MSL finals, and even Jaedong will be hard pressed to stand up to that.

7mk

Germany10157 Posts

May 29 2010 10:41 GMT

#2718

P.S. I told you flash fanboys, taking risks is part of his play and part of what makes him great,
maybe dont flame him that much or say that he "played way below his abilities" the next time he takes a risk again and it doesnt pay off.

arew

Lithuania1861 Posts

May 29 2010 10:41 GMT

#2719

@ 7mk, maybe not that he's a cheesing noob, but probably FlaSh thought about him too good and realized that he'll play with more serious strategies than this.
Glad that FlaSh won, he really deserved this.

infinity2k9

United Kingdom2397 Posts

May 29 2010 10:41 GMT

#2720

On May 29 2010 19:40 link18 wrote:
Very dissapointed in JD decision making, going 12 hatch every game. Bad scourge micro and TERRIBLE decisions in game 2(should have went muta ling in Flash natural and turtle with sunks and lurks).

Game one also pretty much retarded build, it almost never works when you skip mid game units.

And game 3 was just painful to watch-JD throwing away 20+ hyrdras on 2 bunks.If you watch game 3 again you can notice that Jd even came close to killing that push when tanks sieged below natural.

If he had those hydras he wasted he would have easily killed that push.Just abuse mech immobility and snipe tank or a couple of gols, and when tanks siege just move back.Repeat.

I really dont know what was JD thinking.Overall just poor games by him.

Of course props to Flash for making well executed builds, i really liked the build in the first game, fast vessel play.
I want a PvZ finals again for once.That would be epic.

I don't think Flash would have pushed out at that point had Jaedong not thrown away more hydras.