• Log InLog In
  • Register
Liquid`
Team Liquid Liquipedia
EST 18:56
CET 00:56
KST 08:56
  • Home
  • Forum
  • Calendar
  • Streams
  • Liquipedia
  • Features
  • Store
  • EPT
  • TL+
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Smash
  • Heroes
  • Counter-Strike
  • Overwatch
  • Liquibet
  • Fantasy StarCraft
  • TLPD
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Blogs
Forum Sidebar
Events/Features
News
Featured News
[ASL22] Finals Preview: Sweet Victory!12[ASL22] Ro4 Preview: Mirror Mirror6[ASL22] Ro8 Preview: Within Reach5[ASL22] Ro8 Preview: In A Tizzy11[ASL22] Ro16 Preview: Holy Diver5
Community News
Weekly Cups (Oct 26 - Nov 1): MaxPax, herO, Solar win0Weekly Cups (October 19-25): Clem triples first in 5.0.175Evil Geniuses - shutting down23ISSL (IntoTheTV x SOOP SC2 League): Premier7Weekly Cups (October 12-18): 5.0.17 era begins1
StarCraft 2
General
Liquibets sc2 season 30 Evil Geniuses - shutting down Weekly Cups (Oct 26 - Nov 1): MaxPax, herO, Solar win No more SC2 streamers on team liquid? How do you feel about the mass reverts in the 5.0.17 PTR?
Tourneys
Sparkling Tuna Cup - Weekly Open Tournament WardiTV Mondays ISSL (IntoTheTV x SOOP SC2 League): Premier Stellar Fest TWO the Moon (Dec 16-20) RSL goes to London! 2026 Offline Finals Nov 21-22
Strategy
[H] ZvP Mid-Late Game: Stalkers Collossi HT
Custom Maps
[D] the control group Simple Questions/Answers [G] How to playtest arcade maps [A] Nemrods 1/4 players
External Content
Mutation # 550 Graveyard Shift The PondCast: SC2 News & Results Mutation # 549 Endless Sparkles Mutation # 548 Shining Bright
Brood War
General
Sagi.gg Launcher Released Bot on ladder SCHNAIL now supports Remastered The End Of An Era Rollback Netcode in Brood War
Tourneys
[Megathread] Daily Proleagues 2v2v2v2 Tournament Stage 1: Community Poll [$1250] International ShieldBattery League New Worlds Star League
Strategy
50,000-Word Terran Builds Memo 2026-10-22 Cliff Jump Revisited (1 in a 1000 strategy) Simple Questions, Simple Answers
Other Games
General Games
Stormgate/Frost Giant Megathread Nintendo Switch Thread Deus Ex 3!? Mobile Legends: Bang Bang Armies of Exigo - YesYes?
Dota 2
Dota 2 Champions League Season 3 Begins April 25!
League of Legends
[TL LoL EUW IHs] Teemo shall perish
Heroes of the Storm
Heroes of the Storm 2.0
Hearthstone
Deck construction bug
TL Mafia
TL Mafia Community Thread
Community
General
US Politics Mega-thread Russo-Ukrainian War Thread Things Aren’t Peaceful in Palestine Canadian Politics Mega-thread The Chess Thread
Fan Clubs
Fan Club Resource Thread Reynor Fan Club The Flash Fan Club
Media & Entertainment
Anime Discussion Thread Movie Discussion! [Manga] One Piece
Sports
Football (Soccer) Thread TeamLiquid Health and Fitness Initiative For 2023 MLB/Baseball 2023
World Cup 2022
Tech Support
Computer Build, Upgrade & Buying Resource Thread
TL Community
Recent Gifted Posts
Blogs
Why I built Repalyzer (1.1.…
BlueStar
Innovate or Game Over?
TrAiDoS
ShieldBattery on Mac
Kraekkling
[ASL22] Ro4 Day1 Ticket Giv…
bITt.mAN
Can Bots Beat Pros?? Starcr…
namkraft
Customize Sidebar...

Website Feedback

Closed Threads



Active: 9818 users

[MSL] Grand Final - Page 138

Forum Index > Brood War Tournaments
Post a Reply
Prev 1 136 137 138 139 140 157 Next
jonich0n
Profile Joined February 2009
United States1982 Posts
May 29 2010 10:50 GMT
#2741
On May 29 2010 19:44 Hot_Bid wrote:
someone needs to quote all the Flash fans in the OSL Finals thread and replace "bullshit zerg cheese" with "bullshit 14cc cheese" because the exact same arguments can be made about this series lol

how things change in one week!

lol... but most of us never called what Effort did BS cheese. we're not all like Artosis. :3
(>'.')>
EvilTeletubby
Profile Blog Joined January 2004
Baltimore, USA22261 Posts
May 29 2010 10:51 GMT
#2742
On May 29 2010 19:43 StarStruck wrote:
Why in the blue hell would you let Flash do 14cc without punishing him Jae? He pretty much gave him a free win, lol.

He didn't play his game. Instead you played into Flash's. Wow, just wow.


Um, no. JD matched the build in game 2 with the 3 hatch, and went to counter it with the hydra all-in in game 3. It wasn't BO losses, jesus.
Moderatorhttp://carbonleaf.yuku.com/topic/408/t/So-I-proposed-at-a-Carbon-Leaf-concert.html ***** RIP Geoff
JWD
Profile Blog Joined October 2007
United States12607 Posts
May 29 2010 10:51 GMT
#2743
This is the effect of losing the OSL so painfully...Flash returns with a vengeance.
✌
Emon_
Profile Blog Joined November 2009
3925 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-05-29 10:52:38
May 29 2010 10:52 GMT
#2744
Seriously though the best game tonight was set 2. Medic marine + Valkyries? Such a sexy strat.
"I know that human beings and fish can coexist peacefully" -GWB ||
Kimaker
Profile Blog Joined July 2009
United States2131 Posts
May 29 2010 10:54 GMT
#2745
Wow, JD fans SO much more gracious than the Flash fans, lol.

Seriously though, a disappointing finals. Well played by Flash, but a 3-0 extremely one sided rape just seems so...anti-climactic for the likes of Leesangrok.

Oh, and because I need to get some CJ fanboyism in there: Effort>Flash+Flash>JD=Effort>JD

jk.
Entusman #54 (-_-) ||"Gold is for the Mistress-Silver for the Maid-Copper for the craftsman cunning in his trade. "Good!" said the Baron, sitting in his hall, But Iron — Cold Iron — is master of them all|| "Optimism is Cowardice."- Oswald Spengler
KristianJS
Profile Joined October 2009
2107 Posts
May 29 2010 10:55 GMT
#2746
Seriously, the OSL loss is completely wiped away, and now Flash and his fans still have loads to be motivated about the next few seasons (win that Golden Mouse Flash!!)
You need to be 100% behind someone before you can stab them in the back
7mk
Profile Blog Joined January 2009
Germany10157 Posts
May 29 2010 10:56 GMT
#2747
On May 29 2010 19:43 Lebesgue wrote:
Show nested quote +
On May 29 2010 19:38 7mk wrote:
On May 29 2010 18:49 Lebesgue wrote:
People forget that last season Flash raped Jaedong hard in OSL before the MSL final. However, before MSL Jaedong had plenty of time and opportunity to study Flash's build. He was the better player that night but the difference was stark mainly in the build order advantege. This time Flash prepared a new bunch of strats and raped Jaedong again.


I see, so when Jaedong wins it's because of build order advantage, when Flash wins it's because he's so much better and just "rapes" jaedong... right, that's great logic!!!

Never said so. Please don't read between the lines.

All I meant that Flash this timebrought new strategies into the table and won. Last time it was Jaedong's turn. But when they first time met when Flash started dominating in Bo3 in OSL their games looked very similar to games tonight.

Both are great players and it is obvious that having an upper hand in build orders leads to a domination of one or the others

And please let me just be happy for Flash


the way you word it still puts a clear contrast between JD winning cuz of BOs and the finals played just now.
Of course you can be happy for flash, a little part of me is happy for flash too,
I just dont think that you have to rub it in like that, us jd fans are already annoyed that he lost so it's annoying to read sentences like "People forget that last season Flash raped Jaedong hard in OSL" T_T
anyways, dont wanna take away from ur happiness ^^ flash clearly deserved to win and if he like he said was truely fearing for his career if he lost in both finals then it's probably a good thing he won.
beep boop
J1.au
Profile Blog Joined July 2009
Australia3596 Posts
May 29 2010 10:57 GMT
#2748
Will Flash be able to reach dual finals for a third consecutive time? I think he might be able to...
Hot_Bid
Profile Blog Joined October 2003
Braavos36402 Posts
May 29 2010 10:59 GMT
#2749
Only one question remains...

+ Show Spoiler +
In his post game interview does Flash thank the reigning OSL champion for his helpful practice??
@Hot_Bid on Twitter - ESPORTS life since 2010 - http://i.imgur.com/U2psw.png
KristianJS
Profile Joined October 2009
2107 Posts
May 29 2010 10:59 GMT
#2750
On May 29 2010 19:57 J1.au wrote:
Will Flash be able to reach dual finals for a third consecutive time? I think he might be able to...



Honestly I think Flash will keep reaching double finals until he gets the dual gold
You need to be 100% behind someone before you can stab them in the back
Biff The Understudy
Profile Blog Joined February 2008
France8220 Posts
May 29 2010 10:59 GMT
#2751
On May 29 2010 19:48 jonich0n wrote:
Show nested quote +
On May 29 2010 19:43 Biff The Understudy wrote:
On May 29 2010 19:38 Severedevil wrote:
On May 29 2010 19:23 okum wrote:
Consensus during OSL finals: 14CC is a terrible autoloss build and Flash is such a retard for sticking to it.

Consensus during MSL finals: 14CC is a totally imba autowin build that ruins Starcraft.

Both statements have some validity - it's an economic cheese, so it's autoloss to an early rush and produces a heavy advantage against standard play. It tends to shorten games, which frustrates a lot of fans.

I love jockeying for build order advantages, so although I'm disappointed, it's hard to fault Flash; fast scouting --> fast CC, or fast nexus or fast double hatchery, isn't cheesy on a two-player map. Although waiting until after you scout to put up your first barracks/pool/gateway will probably cause your death against an all-in rush. (4pool, or proxy double rax/gateway.)

I think Jaedong should've 4-pooled in the first two matches, out of disdain for the map pool and to dissuade Flash from econ-cheese... but countering with his own econ cheese (which he did in game two) would've also worked, had Jaedong played better.

Jaedong lost because he was unable to predict that Flash would go every game for an economic build. Doesn't go further than that. If he had 9 pooled he would have won, if he had 4 pooled, he would have won, if he had 7 pooled, he would have won.

that's kinda dumb... zergs rarely even go <9pool these days against T, especially on the 3 maps we saw today.

and 9pool was not an autowin anyway... especially since Flash scouted before putting down a CC at 14.

If you can predict that your opponent goes 14 CC, you go 4 pool and you enjoy your win. I don't think Flash would have recovered from 9 pool from JD, although, yes, he scouted quite early.
The fellow who is out to burn things up is the counterpart of the fool who thinks he can save the world. The world needs neither to be burned up nor to be saved. The world is, we are. Transients, if we buck it; here to stay if we accept it. ~H.Miller
DarkMatter_
Profile Joined January 2010
Canada1774 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-05-29 11:04:01
May 29 2010 11:00 GMT
#2752
On May 29 2010 19:46 538 wrote:
Show nested quote +
On May 29 2010 19:41 jonich0n wrote:
This title is Flash's. Yes, he just lost OSL to EffOrt, but he lost because EffOrt played like a newbie. The complete randomness of EffOrt's play caused Flash to lose, not Flash slumping or burning out. Flash has to be insanely upset at this loss to a much inferior player. I believe he will bring everything he has to the MSL finals, and even Jaedong will be hard pressed to stand up to that.

Don't pull an Idra to take away Effort's achievement. Effort outplayed Flash on that day, easy as that, JD today didnt.

Pretty much. It's commendable that Jaedong tried to beat Flash at his own game (late game macro-oriented games) rather than relying on cheese (well except for game 3 but that was more of a reaction to Flash's 14CC) but he was predictable and his adaptability was really poor compared to Effort who reacted perfectly to what Flash was doing.

It's disappointing that there was no early aggression from Jaedong. One of Jaedong's distinguishing quality is that even when going for a macro-oriented build, he still finds a way to get in his opponent's face with some kind of early harass or pressure, even if it's just with his initial set of lings. But today, his play seemed completely passive and it looked like he was on the back foot the whole time. It's very uncharacteristic of him and I found it hugely disappointing. I truly feel bad for Jaedong because he probably would've fared a lot better if he just played like he always does in any random proleague match. Instead he put so much hard work and effort trying to come up with more original and elaborate builds only to be punished for it.
Archer_
Profile Joined December 2009
United States14 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-05-29 11:05:06
May 29 2010 11:00 GMT
#2753
It's funny how with the OSL finals, it's all like Flash played soooooo bad, Effort is super lucky, but here it's all about how Flash played soooooo good, Jaedong was at 100% right?
meegrean
Profile Joined May 2008
Thailand7699 Posts
May 29 2010 11:01 GMT
#2754
Ugh, Flash completely destroyed Jaedong. That's all I have to say. Congratulations Flash!
Brood War loyalist
Hot_Bid
Profile Blog Joined October 2003
Braavos36402 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-05-29 11:07:15
May 29 2010 11:05 GMT
#2755
On May 29 2010 20:00 DarkMatter_ wrote:
Show nested quote +
On May 29 2010 19:46 538 wrote:
On May 29 2010 19:41 jonich0n wrote:
This title is Flash's. Yes, he just lost OSL to EffOrt, but he lost because EffOrt played like a newbie. The complete randomness of EffOrt's play caused Flash to lose, not Flash slumping or burning out. Flash has to be insanely upset at this loss to a much inferior player. I believe he will bring everything he has to the MSL finals, and even Jaedong will be hard pressed to stand up to that.

Don't pull an Idra to take away Effort's achievement. Effort outplayed Flash on that day, easy as that, JD today didnt.

Pretty much. It's commendable that Jaedong tried to beat Flash at his own game (late game macro-oriented games) rather than relying on cheese (well except for game 3 but that was more of a reaction to Flash's 14CC) but

It's disappointing that there was no early aggression from Jaedong. One of Jaedong's distinguishing quality is that even when going for a macro-oriented build, he still finds a way to get in his opponent's face with some kind of early harass or pressure, even if it's just with his initial set of lings. But today, his play seemed completely passive and it looked like he was on the back foot the whole time. It's very uncharacteristic of him and I found it hugely disappointing. I truly feel bad for Jaedong because he probably would've fared a lot better if he just played like he always does in any random proleague match. Instead he put so much hard work and effort trying to come up with more original and elaborate builds only to be punished for it.

JD went 2 defiler mounds and an earlier 4th in game 1, yes thats kind of new. he went standard in game 2, 3H before pool is not innovative vs flash anymore. in game 3 hydra break is hardly creative.

JD made a calculated choice not to play aggressively, partly due to the fact that he probably felt Flash was practicing for that style the entire week (with Effort, no less). It's not some "manly commendable decision," JD clearly did the builds he thought gave him the best chance to win.
@Hot_Bid on Twitter - ESPORTS life since 2010 - http://i.imgur.com/U2psw.png
okum
Profile Blog Joined February 2009
France5779 Posts
May 29 2010 11:06 GMT
#2756
Interview translation?
Flash fan before it was cool | Coiner of "jangbang"
iLoveKT
Profile Blog Joined October 2008
Philippines3615 Posts
May 29 2010 11:06 GMT
#2757
Flash, from the bottom of my heart(eyes starts to get teary), Thank You.

Woo Jung Ho
Insight
Profile Joined December 2009
19 Posts
May 29 2010 11:08 GMT
#2758
On May 29 2010 18:57 snowdrift86 wrote:
Show nested quote +
On May 29 2010 18:56 PanzerDragoon wrote:
On May 29 2010 18:48 Uranium wrote:
On May 29 2010 18:45 below66 wrote:
he made jaedong look like an amateur in the last 2 games, and some will argue first, and while it was bad it was not THAT bad.

Jaedong made himself look like an amateur in the last 2 games.

Game 2 he completely failed at his muta micro in not taking out the valks (and muta micro is supposed to be JD's strong point).

Game 3 continuing to pump hydras and just needlessly suiciding them... I don't even know what to say. Some of the dumbest shit I have ever seen in an SC game. And in a league final, no less.

no, Flash makes everyone look like amateurs.


And Effort makes Flash look like an amateur.

The circle is complete

effort didnt make flash look like an amateur, flash did it himself. every single game effort won was more of flash's mistake then effort's good play

if flash took effort seriously like he did with jaedong he would've easily 3-0 him, effort isnt even close to jd, remember how badly effort lost in game 2 after getting away with 3 hatch 3 base and having huge econ advantage because he couldn't keep up with multitask?
Kyuki
Profile Joined February 2008
Sweden1867 Posts
May 29 2010 11:12 GMT
#2759
Big congrats to Flash, really well played. Sadly abit disappointing finals, but I'm sure we'll see more of these two in the finals.

Aslong as we still get to see OSLs and MSLs that is...

Props to JD beeing so awesome and mannered, I really love the guy, so inspirational! Next time it's yours!
Mada Mada Dane
Crunchums
Profile Blog Joined December 2008
United States11144 Posts
May 29 2010 11:13 GMT
#2760
I wish this one had been the one with the power outage : /

feel bad for jd; pretty lame that he had to play against only successful 14cc's
brood war for life, brood war forever
Prev 1 136 137 138 139 140 157 Next
Please log in or register to reply.
Live Events Refresh
Replay Cast
08:00
Continental Nation League S1
CranKy Ducklings81
Liquipedia
[ Submit Event ]
Live Streams
Refresh
StarCraft 2
PiGStarcraft256
Nathanias 95
EmSc Tv 5
StarCraft: Brood War
GuemChi 800
Artosis 504
Rain 381
ProTech57
Shinee 48
LuMiX 2
League of Legends
Doublelift4487
JimRising 663
Counter-Strike
Coldzera 1350
Fnx 1316
Super Smash Bros
hungrybox574
Other Games
summit1g16157
tarik_tv5072
Grubby2993
syndereN354
byalli223
C9.Mang0145
Pyrionflax140
Fuzer 100
Maynarde93
NeuroSwarm83
ViBE67
ZombieGrub37
JuggernautJason11
Chillindude9
Railgan4
Organizations
Counter-Strike
PGL105
Other Games
BasetradeTV34
StarCraft 2
EmSc Tv 5
EmSc2Tv 5
[ Show 14 non-featured ]
StarCraft 2
• CranKy Ducklings SOOP13
• AfreecaTV YouTube
• intothetv
• Kozan
• IndyKCrew
• Laughngamez YouTube
• Migwel
StarCraft: Brood War
• BSLYoutube
• STPLYoutube
• ZZZeroYoutube
League of Legends
• Nemesis2881
• Jankos2542
Other Games
• imaqtpie682
• Shiphtur278
Upcoming Events
The PondCast
10h 5m
KCM Race Survival
10h 5m
OSC
14h 5m
IntoTheTV X SOOP
2 days
Reynor vs Solar
ByuN vs SHIN
Clem vs MaxPax
herO vs Rogue
IPSL
2 days
WorsT vs nOmaD
Dewalt vs andersOn
AI Arena Tournament
2 days
IntoTheTV X SOOP
3 days
IPSL
3 days
Azhi_Dahaki vs ggnore13
Double vs WIZARD
Replay Cast
3 days
Replay Cast
4 days
[ Show More ]
Sparkling Tuna Cup
5 days
WardiTV Invitational
5 days
YoungYakov vs Lambo
SHIN vs TBD
Percival vs Shameless
Solar vs TBD
PiGosaur Cup
6 days
Liquipedia Results

Completed

Proleague 2026-11-03
Blizzard Classic Cup 2026
HCC Season 3

Ongoing

Acropolis #5
KCM Race Survival 2026 Season 4
International ShieldBattery League
BSL Season 23
IPSL Winter 2026-27
Proleague 2026-11-04
Calamity Cup Div. A Season 8
IEM Beijing 2026
PGL Masters Bucharest 2026
Stake Ranked Episode 5
1win Private Club #2
Thunderpick World Champ. '26
ESL Pro League Season 24
Stake Ranked Episode 4
1win Private Club #1
Logitech G Play Connect 2026
SL StarSeries Fall 2026
FISSURE Playground #3
BLAST Open Fall 2026
Esports World Cup 2026

Upcoming

1xBet Invitational
SC4ALL II: Brood War
BSL 23: Non-Korean Championship
HSC XXX
Stellar Fest 2: Lunar Cup
SC4ALL II: StarCraft II
Kung Fu Cup 2026 Grand Finals
RSL Offline Finals
Underdog Cup 2026 Div 2-3
PGL Bucharest 2027
BLAST Bounty Winter 2027
eXTREMESLAND 2026
PGL Major Singapore 2026
Stake Ranked Episode 6
BLAST Rivals Fall 2026
TLPD

1. ByuN
2. TY
3. Dark
4. Solar
5. Stats
6. Nerchio
7. sOs
8. soO
9. INnoVation
10. Elazer
1. Rain
2. Flash
3. EffOrt
4. Last
5. Bisu
6. Soulkey
7. Mini
8. Sharp
Sidebar Settings...

Advertising | Privacy Policy | Terms Of Use | Contact Us

Original banner artwork: Jim Warren
The contents of this webpage are copyright © 2026 TLnet. All Rights Reserved.