Yeah. Jaedong was totally pushing into Flash's base right there. GG, didn't stand a chance, I mean those two screen shots alone are enough to call the entire game. There was absolutely nothing Flash could have done to win. At all. Good job. GG.
watch a hundred more progames, you'll discover that very seldom is the finishing blow the most critical event during a match
Even so, I'm saying that this alone isn't sufficient evidence to call an entire game over.
Flash was just getting his 3rd base up, his main mined out. JD had 3 gas for a while, and his 4th gas was up for a while too. Flash had at most 1 control group of m&ms with some reinforcements coming in. The game hinged on flash breaking 7. JD had 3 sunkens, 3 ultras (2 weakened) a defiler, and some lings to defend. Flash couldn't have broken that. In fact it looked like JD was postering to attack flash's 8 with just a handful of units and swarm, while he was morphing in reinforcments.
After watching the rep. Flash wasn't in as bad a position as I thought.
He had quite a few medic marine (a ton of medics) and was about to get his 3rd. Because Jaedong had been throwing all his larva and resources to defend 7, Flash would have been able to defend his 3rd fairly easily imo and Jaedong would have made a ton of drones to macro up.
Flash could have pulled his units back to play more defensively, or he could have reinforced more units to take down 7, which I actually think is quite likely b/c it is MUCH easier to keep sending in marines than it is to send Ultras / Defilers. You can notice that Jaedong isn't even sending any more gas units at this point, he doesn't have the econ to sustain that.
Still a very close game, giving an edge to Jaedong. Definitely, definitely not worth giving him a win though. I understand better now why KT was so upset.
Yeah. Jaedong was totally pushing into Flash's base right there. GG, didn't stand a chance, I mean those two screen shots alone are enough to call the entire game. There was absolutely nothing Flash could have done to win. At all. Good job. GG.
watch a hundred more progames, you'll discover that very seldom is the finishing blow the most critical event during a match
Even so, I'm saying that this alone isn't sufficient evidence to call an entire game over.
well surely you can at least recognize the massive advantage jaedong had at that point?
i don't understand this counting of specific units when most of you don't seem to understand what the purpose of those units are. i see people counting 10 marines, and 10 is more than 4 lings + 2 ultras which is 6 so therefore its a tie?
Jaedong had no reinforcements coming. He had 2 sunkens, 1 defiler, 1 ultralisk (the other died from irratiation), and two scourge. Flash would have irradiated the defiler and ultralisk, and then brought more marines to break the sunkens. Jaedong was low on gas and Flash had already destroyed two of Jaedongs expansions, while Flash had not been economically harassed at all.
I think Flash could have destroyed the expansion. Whatever the outcome, its not CLEAR. It could have gone either way. Calling this game is bullshit.
Yeah. Jaedong was totally pushing into Flash's base right there. GG, didn't stand a chance, I mean those two screen shots alone are enough to call the entire game. There was absolutely nothing Flash could have done to win. At all. Good job. GG.
Have you watched the game? Flash was all in, if he doesn't take out this base he loses. He was mined out with an unprotected mineral only expansion, while JD was on 3 gas. 1 swarm after this and it's gg.
yes, if flash loses the battle, he loses the game. But if jd loses the battle, he loses his 4th and has to fight t with even bases starting with no army and flash would have map control.
If jd lost that base, I really can't see how he'd manage to take another 4th again ever while I could easily see flash taking 7 and just dominating.
The game was probably going to be decided in the next 30 seconds, it was a really shitty time for a blackout.
i'd also like to point out that a lot of you are saying Flash was 'about to get his third', seemingly oblivious of the fact that it was 18 minutes into the game & Flash's two-base play consumed a ton of resources
Flash: 10 Marines 9 Medics 3 Vessels (likely low on mana due ot recently irradiating Ultras)
Jaedong: 2 Sunkens 2 Ultras, one on low health 3 lings 1 Defiler with at least 100 mana 1 creep colony morphing 2 Scourge
Reinforcements:
Flash: None
Jaedong: 2 lings 1 Ultra 2scourge
From what I can see about resources:
Jaedong on 4 bases, setting up his fifth at 2 O'Clock. JD's 2 expo-bases were fully mining and the 7 o'clock had 4 drones mining, 2 on gas, 2 on min. @ 18:20, at the 7 O'Clock base 3 more drones popped, one of which morphed into a Creep Colony.
Flash was mining only at the natural which had about 100-300 minerals left. The SCVs from his main were being transferred to a new base and they successfully moved out. At the time of the blackout, Flash was on 2 bases, both fully mining with the Nat running low. (You can tell Flash was mining his new base fully because they moved out with the marines, and it was some time that they were at the new base before the blackout.)
Flash: Main mined out, Nat low, 3rd new expo running (@9).
Jaedong: Main likely mined out as well, Nat also likely low, 3rd (@3 o'clock) base running, 4th barely running (@7). 5th just starting up (@2).
Yeah. Jaedong was totally pushing into Flash's base right there. GG, didn't stand a chance, I mean those two screen shots alone are enough to call the entire game. There was absolutely nothing Flash could have done to win. At all. Good job. GG.
Have you watched the game? Flash was all in, if he doesn't take out this base he loses. He was mined out with an unprotected mineral only expansion, while JD was on 3 gas. 1 swarm after this and it's gg.
His natural wasn't mined out, and from what I can see it wasn't very close. I'm not sure where you're drawing the forces count from since the observers didn't go back to his base much since the offensive started. I'm not an expert at analysis, but I'm not sure that we can conclusively decide that the game would have gone to Jaedong hands down from this point.
listening to her again, she said the decision was made based off of remaining minerals and the number of bases. nothing about unit composition, who or who wasn't winning what battle, etc.
listening to her again, she said the decision was made based off of remaining minerals and the number of bases. nothing about unit composition, who or who wasn't winning what battle, etc.
It doesn't even matter what their reasons are, you should never, ever, give someone a game in a Grand Finals.
listening to her again, she said the decision was made based off of remaining minerals and the number of bases. nothing about unit composition, who or who wasn't winning what battle, etc.
On January 23 2010 22:29 Xxio wrote: After watching the rep. Flash wasn't in as bad a position as I thought.
He had quite a few medic marine (a ton of medics) and was about to get his 3rd. Because Jaedong had been throwing all his larva and resources to defend 7, Flash would have been able to defend his 3rd fairly easily imo and Jaedong would have made a ton of drones to macro up.
Flash could have pulled his units back to play more defensively, or he could have reinforced more units to take down 7, which I actually think is quite likely b/c it is MUCH easier to keep sending in marines than it is to send Ultras / Defilers. You can notice that Jaedong isn't even sending any more gas units at this point, he doesn't have the econ to sustain that.
Still a very close game, giving an edge to Jaedong. Definitely, definitely not worth giving him a win though. I understand better now why KT was so upset.
You know Flash's main and nat were mined out? And I hope you're kidding when you say mnm are easier to reinforce than ultraling. Nothing is easier to reinforce than ultraling.
On January 23 2010 22:31 Qwertify wrote: Flash: Main mined out, Nat low, 3rd new expo running (@9).
Jaedong: Main likely mined out as well, Nat also likely low, 3rd (@3 o'clock) base running, 4th barely running (@7). 5th just starting up (@2).
Call me blind, but I'm just not seeing the brown dot at 2 (top right) that says he started a hatch. It looks more to me like he has a drone sitting there that isn't doing anything yet.
realistically, i'm gonna say i expect jaedong to win 90% of the time from that situation. the only way flash is gonna bust 7 oclock is if jaedong runs out to attack flash's new mining base before he safely can, and then somehow bungles up and loses all his units. itd be a bad decision and some sloppy control, that's the only way jaedong can realistically lose from that scenario
however, the game wasn't over, and that one-in-ten chance still lingers above everyone's heads. shoulda been a regame as far as i'm concerned.
On January 23 2010 22:33 4Servy wrote: People counting units dont know everything who god knows another 2 vessels might be going over the nat. Wich would give flash 5 vessels and 2 irra.
You simply cannot say this game was over, when the game went dark first time I thought it was bigger advantage for jd but this close really close.
If jd has a 55 vs 45 win chance at this point in the game I would already overstate it, more like 51/49.
The reason on wich kespa ref gave their judgement are totaly wrong and show they dont know anything about RTS or starcraft in general.
Nothing about your point, but we do in fact know that there were no vessels because nothing on the minimap was moving in that direction. If they just came out, it would be some time before they got to the 7 o'clock base, in which case JD would likely have more units reinforcing.
Also of note, at the tim eof the blackout, on the minimap it is clear that Flash's forces were retreating.
On January 23 2010 22:31 Qwertify wrote: Ok - EXACT UNIT COUNT AT THE END::
Flash: 10 Marines 9 Medics 3 Vessels (likely low on mana due ot recently irradiating Ultras)
Jaedong: 2 Sunkens 2 Ultras, one on low health 3 lings 1 Defiler with at least 100 mana 1 creep colony morphing 2 Scourge
Reinforcements:
Flash: None
Jaedong: 2 lings 1 Ultra 2scourge
From what I can see about resources:
Jaedong on 4 bases, setting up his fifth at 2 O'Clock. JD's 2 expo-bases were fully mining and the 7 o'clock had 4 drones mining, 2 on gas, 2 on min. @ 18:20, at the 7 O'Clock base 3 more drones popped, one of which morphed into a Creep Colony.
Flash was mining only at the natural which had about 100-300 minerals left. The SCVs from his main were being transferred to a new base and they successfully moved out. At the time of the blackout, Flash was on 2 bases, both fully mining with the Nat running low. (You can tell Flash was mining his new base fully because they moved out with the marines, and it was some time that they were at the new base before the blackout.)
Flash: Main mined out, Nat low, 3rd new expo running (@9).
Jaedong: Main likely mined out as well, Nat also likely low, 3rd (@3 o'clock) base running, 4th barely running (@7). 5th just starting up (@2).
We never saw jaedongs 4th so we dont know if that was saturated or not, and we dont know whether flash had reinforements at his nat
EPT![[image loading]](http://img251.imageshack.us/img251/259/flashvjd1.jpg)
![[image loading]](http://img684.imageshack.us/img684/8943/flashvjd2.jpg)
![[image loading]](http://img43.imageshack.us/img43/5232/21293908.jpg)
