STX FTW! Best lost his last 3 PvP so I am hoping for a 3-0. If not, Bisu can single-handely turn the series around, but where there is Calm there is hope!
I think STX will take this! even tho I'm SKT1 fan, I feel SKT1 got some issues within their team and not preforming aswell as they should. Maybe the team feels Oov is depression, the gorilla obviously misses Midas cooking
On December 27 2009 08:12 Xiphos wrote: If Calm beat Fantasy then he'll be a serious contender against Flash.
cool, then Killer has a real shot at beating Flash! =)
I'm saying this cuz Fantasy have probably been practicing a lot for this and Calm haven't really displayed his ZvT that much lately so if Calm wins, he can prove himself or something.
Afraid STX will 3-0 this and hinder Bisu from playing
If SKT manages to win a game in the 3 first sets I expect them to win the match, unless the SKT coaches decide to do something stupid like sending out Canata or Huyk or something in the acematch.
On December 27 2009 09:51 Oystein wrote: Afraid STX will 3-0 this and hinder Bisu from playing
If SKT manages to win a game in the 3 First sets I expect them to win the match, unless the SKT coaches decide to do something stupid like sending out Canata or Huyk or something in the acematch.
Please.. don't give them ideas. A CuteAngel vs Canata ACE match would unwind the fabrics of reality as we know it.
That said, i'm hoping for a 3-1 by STX, with the loss most likely being Shuttle, who as much as I love him is seriously not BeSt.
I hope Fantasy has been practicing his M&M micro and macro and comes out a better player since being eliminated from the OSL. But New Tornado looks like a good map to go mech.
anyone know why we havent seen Valkionic from Fantasy anymore? last time i saw it was when he raped Type-B with it. it it not viable anymore? cause its fun as hell to watch
fixed image, imageshack has been being gay about large images lately so I'm going to upload them to my own website at campaigncreations or another image uploading site.
On December 27 2009 11:49 Chen wrote: anyone know why we havent seen Valkionic from Fantasy anymore? last time i saw it was when he raped Type-B with it. it it not viable anymore? cause its fun as hell to watch
I've only seen it a handful of times. Canata vs JD on HBR, fantasy vs JD on HBR, some other time, and another. It's a super strong timing push (at like uh, 13 minutes or so?), but the problem is you'll likely lose to a well executed aggressive build [primarily a 2-hatch tech build] (see: JD vs fantasy on Medusa, Kwanro vs Casy in '09 Bacchus OSL both games). But I say it's time for that build to make a comeback. No more one-of-everything build, please fantasy.
Go Fantasy SKT's chances rest on his unsure shoulders. But theres no better way to break a slump than against an S-class player hes already beaten twice
On December 27 2009 12:22 Mattz12 wrote: Go Fantasy SKT's chances rest on his unsure shoulders. But theres no better way to break a slump than against an S-class player hes already beaten twice
Calm isnt S class. not even close. seriously some people need to learn what that word means and that its an exclusive club.
zealots running around aimlessly with no targets, solid defense from soo. lurkers out now too... scouting manlot runs past defenses to spot the muta switch!
He throws his units a few at a time at Kal's main army situated in the top choke of HB Ridge. Lurkers are easily stormed, zerglings are blocked by zealots, and hydras are annihilated.
On December 27 2009 13:24 Oystein wrote: SKT needs to get their owner\Kespa boss to change the rules so teams can play without a race in PL matches. This was some good old SKT Zerg fail.
The best part is, SKT can have a complete fail Zerg line-up and still dominate though.
On December 27 2009 13:24 Oystein wrote: SKT needs to get their owner\Kespa boss to change the rules so teams can play without a race in PL matches. This was some good old SKT Zerg fail.
The best part is, SKT can have a complete fail Zerg line-up and still dominate though.
but we aren't really dominating in R2
Hyuk needs to recover whatever mojo he had going back in October
On December 27 2009 13:29 writer22816 wrote: BeSt vs Shuttle is going to be critical...Fantasy may not be able to beat Calm.
If this was before Best's semifinal against Stork (aka 80% pvp) no one would be doubting him
haha those were the days…man I loved watching that streak. A lot of it was due to Colosseum though, which was basically made for BeSt. The guy went like 11-0 on that map or something? He'd just wait for his opponent to try to break him with reavers, defend easily using the high ground/choke and then macro like crazy off 3base for an easy win. Beat so many top Protosses that way.
On December 27 2009 13:24 Oystein wrote: SKT needs to get their owner\Kespa boss to change the rules so teams can play without a race in PL matches. This was some good old SKT Zerg fail.
The best part is, SKT can have a complete fail Zerg line-up and still dominate though.
but we aren't really dominating in R2
Hyuk needs to recover whatever mojo he had going back in October
when winner's league starts Bisu will start raping shit again and you guys will get into playoffs
On December 27 2009 13:24 Oystein wrote: SKT needs to get their owner\Kespa boss to change the rules so teams can play without a race in PL matches. This was some good old SKT Zerg fail.
The best part is, SKT can have a complete fail Zerg line-up and still dominate though.
but we aren't really dominating in R2
Hyuk needs to recover whatever mojo he had going back in October
when winner's league starts Bisu will start raping shit again and you guys will get into playoffs
winner's league lets all the 1-man teams start actually getting wins
On December 27 2009 13:24 Oystein wrote: SKT needs to get their owner\Kespa boss to change the rules so teams can play without a race in PL matches. This was some good old SKT Zerg fail.
The best part is, SKT can have a complete fail Zerg line-up and still dominate though.
but we aren't really dominating in R2
Hyuk needs to recover whatever mojo he had going back in October
when winner's league starts Bisu will start raping shit again and you guys will get into playoffs
What's with the sad face? Don't tell me you're not craving for some good old KT-SKT grudge matches. Especially with WL format. :p
Hopefully Shuttle will continue to win, and see more and more appearances in the line up. Personally, I'm hoping that since GOM is now defunct, his mystical powers will transfer to the other individual leagues. He needs an OSL or two under his belt, tbh. >_>
Hopefully Fantasy is able to clinch this game, but to be honest, Fantasy is not impressing anybody lately with his terrible play T_T
lets hope he's gotten some practice and has some build in store to catch Calm off guard or something because otherwise I just don't see him pulling off a win.
I'm going to give Fantasy props for actually being on the winning but holy shit his micro is SO fucking bad. He just lost like 20 MnMs and 2 tanks to lurkers.
you know the pathetic thing is fantasy has often brought jaedong to his brink and calm has like an 80% zvt record for this year. Yet, here we are, watching one of the sloppiest games in modern history.
On December 27 2009 14:08 FireGuyX wrote: Fantasy is going suddenly look like iloveoov. Fantasy has been practicing his TvZ a lot.
ahaha !
WOW what a good game. Such good dropsship timing and harass holy crapp
well actually isnt he more like oov than boxer? horrible control but great tactical decisions and macro wins him the game. there were alot of really pimp defiler snipes with units that game
On December 27 2009 14:33 FragKrag wrote: wow I did not expect fantasy to win.
he lost like 70 rines to lurkers without even reacting and he beats calm.
god calm vs fantasy is always fucking terrible T_T
I think that game was very similar to flash vs hyun: for the obvious macro -> dropship reasons, but also because flash lost like 20 vessels to scourge mostly because he didnt care and knew he was going to win.
On December 27 2009 14:33 FireGuyX wrote: It's safe to say that Fantasy's TvZ has improved.
In the sense that he failed slightly less than in their games from several weeks back?
I've noticed an improvement in his M&M micro and macro, although he still doesn't have Flash's game sense when it comes to TvZ. Seriously Fantasy would be an S-Class Terran if his TvZ wasn't such a handicap for him.
On December 27 2009 14:33 Random_0 wrote: Awesome game by Fantasy.
Were we watching the same game?
It was a contest of who could fuck up less and the T > Z edge gave fantasy the edge.
Clam revealed his ugly play tonight.
There was almost constant action on multiple fronts that game, it was very hard for both players to have their attention focused on 1 spot at once to minimize the mistakes. It was a great game though.
On December 27 2009 14:33 FireGuyX wrote: It's safe to say that Fantasy's TvZ has improved.
In the sense that he failed slightly less than in their games from several weeks back?
I've noticed an improvement in his M&M micro and macro, although he still doesn't have Flash's game sense when it comes to TvZ. Seriously Fantasy would be an S-Class Terran if his TvZ wasn't such a handicap for him.
And if he brought his TvP up to snuff. So really only TvT, for now.
On December 27 2009 14:33 FireGuyX wrote: It's safe to say that Fantasy's TvZ has improved.
In the sense that he failed slightly less than in their games from several weeks back?
I've noticed an improvement in his M&M micro and macro, although he still doesn't have Flash's game sense when it comes to TvZ. Seriously Fantasy would be an S-Class Terran if his TvZ wasn't such a handicap for him.
If you saw this, then it must be from a different game.
So much 3 hatching goping on lately. Does any sane person even THINK that calm stands more htan a 10% chance against flash on New Years? Even if Calm does come up with amazing BOs/cheeses for the series he just doesn't have the skill necessary to pull them off against flash. His muta micro is nowhere near Zero or JD's level. Even his macro and multitasking seems to lag behind Zero's.
I'm never one to criticize pro gamers. But ya.. it surely wasnt S-Class. But... still good games. 99% of players would get crushed by either the Z or T played there... so bleh.
On December 27 2009 14:35 lone_hydra wrote: What makes Zvt so hard?
tanks? nahh sci vessels? nahh
its the fcking drop ships
Dropships are A) the slowest of the 3 transport units(maybe they are 2nd but i dont think they are faster than overlords) B) have the least HP of the 3. C) are by far the most expensive you have nothing to complain about.
On December 27 2009 14:34 jalstar wrote: fantasy finally learned bio tvz
not really but clam made enough mistakes for him to win
LOL. Good one.
I swear Fantasy vs. Calm produces the least skill-infested games ever. Seriously... the fuck was that shit lmfao.
did you miss the second part
Pretty sure he didn't notice the 15 minute section where fantasy was attacking in so many places that he needed to outsource some of his mnm control to Bubble.
On December 27 2009 14:33 FireGuyX wrote: It's safe to say that Fantasy's TvZ has improved.
In the sense that he failed slightly less than in their games from several weeks back?
I've noticed an improvement in his M&M micro and macro, although he still doesn't have Flash's game sense when it comes to TvZ. Seriously Fantasy would be an S-Class Terran if his TvZ wasn't such a handicap for him.
And if he brought his TvP up to snuff. So really only TvT, for now.
? i thought he was known for his TvP. hes lost a few games vs Stork and dropped a bad series vs stats but what else "isnt up to snuff?"
On December 27 2009 14:35 lone_hydra wrote: What makes Zvt so hard?
tanks? nahh sci vessels? nahh
its the fcking drop ships
Dropships are A) the slowest of the 3 transport units(maybe they are 2nd but i dont think they are faster than overlords) B) have the least HP of the 3. C) are by far the most expensive you have nothing to complain about.
I agree, but just to point out, dropships are slower than speed-shuttles but faster than speed-overlords
On December 27 2009 14:33 FireGuyX wrote: It's safe to say that Fantasy's TvZ has improved.
In the sense that he failed slightly less than in their games from several weeks back?
I've noticed an improvement in his M&M micro and macro, although he still doesn't have Flash's game sense when it comes to TvZ. Seriously Fantasy would be an S-Class Terran if his TvZ wasn't such a handicap for him.
And if he brought his TvP up to snuff. So really only TvT, for now.
? i thought he was known for his TvP. hes lost a few games vs Stork and dropped a bad series vs stats but what else "isnt up to snuff?"
It's very obvious (it seriously is) that his TvP relies on a harass style which isn't working that effectively anymore. It's not bad, one of the better TvP's out there, but not near S-class
On December 27 2009 14:33 FireGuyX wrote: It's safe to say that Fantasy's TvZ has improved.
In the sense that he failed slightly less than in their games from several weeks back?
I've noticed an improvement in his M&M micro and macro, although he still doesn't have Flash's game sense when it comes to TvZ. Seriously Fantasy would be an S-Class Terran if his TvZ wasn't such a handicap for him.
And if he brought his TvP up to snuff. So really only TvT, for now.
? i thought he was known for his TvP. hes lost a few games vs Stork and dropped a bad series vs stats but what else "isnt up to snuff?"
It's very obvious (it seriously is) that his TvP relies on a harass style which isn't working that effectively anymore. It's not bad, one of the better TvP's out there, but not near S-class
Not sure how you can say this considering Fantasy has only played 3 PvTs this season (MSL, OSL, and PL combined), and they were back in September (2-1 with wins vs free and Much). I guarantee Fantasy still has one of the game's best TvPs—we just haven't seen it in a very long time.
On December 27 2009 14:38 Chen wrote: Dropships are A) the slowest of the 3 transport units(maybe they are 2nd but i dont think they are faster than overlords) B) have the least HP of the 3. C) are by far the most expensive you have nothing to complain about.
Strictly speaking, they're easier to put to use than overlords, because overlords need 2 upgrades that don't otherwise help, while the dropship only requires buildings that you would get almost 100% of the time anyway.
Dropships only cost more than overlords drops after the 4th one.
On December 27 2009 14:33 FireGuyX wrote: It's safe to say that Fantasy's TvZ has improved.
In the sense that he failed slightly less than in their games from several weeks back?
I've noticed an improvement in his M&M micro and macro, although he still doesn't have Flash's game sense when it comes to TvZ. Seriously Fantasy would be an S-Class Terran if his TvZ wasn't such a handicap for him.
And if he brought his TvP up to snuff. So really only TvT, for now.
? i thought he was known for his TvP. hes lost a few games vs Stork and dropped a bad series vs stats but what else "isnt up to snuff?"
It's very obvious (it seriously is) that his TvP relies on a harass style which isn't working that effectively anymore. It's not bad, one of the better TvP's out there, but not near S-class
Not sure how you can say this considering Fantasy has only played 3 PvTs this season (MSL, OSL, and PL combined), and they were back in September (2-1 with wins vs free and Much). I guarantee Fantasy still has one of the game's best TvPs—we just haven't seen it in a very long time.
Here's the thing about S-class. If say, Flash/Stork/Jaedong/Bisu dropped those games, people would say they were slumping. You can't just brush off these games if you want to consider Fantasy's TvP to be S-class.
On December 27 2009 14:33 FireGuyX wrote: It's safe to say that Fantasy's TvZ has improved.
In the sense that he failed slightly less than in their games from several weeks back?
I've noticed an improvement in his M&M micro and macro, although he still doesn't have Flash's game sense when it comes to TvZ. Seriously Fantasy would be an S-Class Terran if his TvZ wasn't such a handicap for him.
And if he brought his TvP up to snuff. So really only TvT, for now.
? i thought he was known for his TvP. hes lost a few games vs Stork and dropped a bad series vs stats but what else "isnt up to snuff?"
It's very obvious (it seriously is) that his TvP relies on a harass style which isn't working that effectively anymore. It's not bad, one of the better TvP's out there, but not near S-class
Not sure how you can say this considering Fantasy has only played 3 PvTs this season (MSL, OSL, and PL combined), and they were back in September (2-1 with wins vs free and Much). I guarantee Fantasy still has one of the game's best TvPs—we just haven't seen it in a very long time.
After his hot 9-1 streak in proleague, his recent TvP's have been quite underwhelming.
On December 27 2009 14:33 FireGuyX wrote: It's safe to say that Fantasy's TvZ has improved.
In the sense that he failed slightly less than in their games from several weeks back?
I've noticed an improvement in his M&M micro and macro, although he still doesn't have Flash's game sense when it comes to TvZ. Seriously Fantasy would be an S-Class Terran if his TvZ wasn't such a handicap for him.
And if he brought his TvP up to snuff. So really only TvT, for now.
? i thought he was known for his TvP. hes lost a few games vs Stork and dropped a bad series vs stats but what else "isnt up to snuff?"
It's very obvious (it seriously is) that his TvP relies on a harass style which isn't working that effectively anymore. It's not bad, one of the better TvP's out there, but not near S-class
Not sure how you can say this considering Fantasy has only played 3 PvTs this season (MSL, OSL, and PL combined), and they were back in September (2-1 with wins vs free and Much). I guarantee Fantasy still has one of the game's best TvPs—we just haven't seen it in a very long time.
After his hot 9-1 streak in proleague, his recent TvP's have been quite underwhelming.
tbh is was very well executed by Frozean... made Bisu look helpless. Bisu should've tried to delay him getting to his nat longer IMO rather than trying to just stall until reaver.
Noo!! My fantasy ace match!! Noo!! Sk Telecom lose again!!
What happened? I was watching Leta match. By the time I came back, Terran already at Bisu base outside with bunker tank scv turrets all kinds of things.
I'm laughing so hard right now. I don't like Bisu one bit, and all I know about Frozean is that I liked his old name more, and he's fucking terrible. Such a massive grin on my face right now.
On December 27 2009 14:56 XiaoJoyce- wrote: Noo!! My fantasy ace match!! Noo!! Sk Telecom lose again!!
What happened? I was watching Leta match. By the time I came back, Terran already at Bisu base outside with bunker tank scv turrets all kinds of things.
And... Leta match start earlier end later!!!
2 fact with siege instead of vult speed caught Bisu off guard. Frozean shoots up at Bisu's units from low ground, obs instead of Reaver costs Bisu. Reaver only gets off 1 shot when it does get out so Bisu gets rolled
On December 27 2009 14:58 On_Slaught wrote: Looking past the manner CC, that was actually a pretty frightening build from Frozean considering the timing and power behind it.
srsly. Hwasin did same thing with 1 difference AND pulled SCV's and got rolled. the power of siege eh?
Upon review of the replay.. It looks like it was a Bisu fail by moving his goons into his base and by losing a ton of them to siege modo, then that reaver fail was just too sad.
On December 27 2009 14:58 On_Slaught wrote: Looking past the manner CC, that was actually a pretty frightening build from Frozean considering the timing and power behind it.
Not really. Its pretty good vs fast expo builds like that but it gets raped by DT or Reavers. Actually it should not even beat what Bisu did, he just suicided all his goons for no good reason
On December 27 2009 14:58 On_Slaught wrote: Looking past the manner CC, that was actually a pretty frightening build from Frozean considering the timing and power behind it.
Not really. Its pretty good vs fast expo builds like that but it gets raped by DT or Reavers. Actually it should not even beat what Bisu did, he just suicided all his goons for no good reason
On December 27 2009 14:58 On_Slaught wrote: Looking past the manner CC, that was actually a pretty frightening build from Frozean considering the timing and power behind it.
Not really. Its pretty good vs fast expo builds like that but it gets raped by DT or Reavers. Actually it should not even beat what Bisu did, he just suicided all his goons for no good reason
I suppose Bisu just did what he could to make the build look better than it is .
On December 27 2009 15:00 bluemanrocks wrote: LOL at the recommend description of game 3. + Show Spoiler +
Check out Set 3, GREAT multitasking by both players but the better one wins with some amazing play.
also LOL at frozean bming bisu. id say thats worhta recommend as well.
I'm sure the words he used in the recommendation are sarcasm.
Yea sarcasm...
i know i know, i thought the OP was funny with their sarcasm, i wasnt laughing at his stupidity! =P
man, you gotta wonder how bisu takes all this. i mean in his interview he said he goes into every game with confidence that he will win (which makes people think hes cocky), but you gotta wonder what all this recent stuff does to him. especially when hes bmed, lol. poor guy.
I just love how he built that reaver with like 6 tanks on his doorstep, only for it to die without a single kill. Bisu's horrible reaver/shuttle micro continues.
LOLin' hard at calling FrOzean "The Terran Guy", since he is quite possibly the most mediocre (but still, at totally random intervals, just barely relevant) terran players in recent history.
Also that manner CC was a great move from FrOzean. It's something STX can go back home and laugh about, and as the new "mascot" player on the team it's a great little morale shot in the "hell yeah we humiliated the champs" kind of way. He'll probably get scolded by the coach but I'm positive it's good for the team as a whole and like seeing him make that move.
On December 27 2009 15:08 MountainDewJunkie wrote: Set 4 not recommended? OP fail.
It's pretty clear from the OP "recommended game" note unironically labeling fantasy the better player compared to Calm without any real qualifiers that he is only really interested in SKT wins.
On December 27 2009 15:09 XiaoJoyce- wrote: No, I call him terran guy because his name is not english name, and wierd spelling. I always type Frozen instead..
yeah but the reason I gave is why we think it's particularly funny. He's completely forgettable except for the fact that he's bad... except when he wins. He's sort of like a Terran Backho except less ridiculous.
On December 27 2009 15:08 MountainDewJunkie wrote: Set 4 not recommended? OP fail.
It's pretty clear from the OP "recommended game" note unironically labeling fantasy the better player compared to Calm without any real qualifiers that he is only really interested in SKT wins.
On December 27 2009 15:08 MountainDewJunkie wrote: Set 4 not recommended? OP fail.
It's pretty clear from the OP "recommended game" note unironically labeling fantasy the better player compared to Calm without any real qualifiers that he is only really interested in SKT wins.
Game 1 epic fail Game 2 long but no really awesome plays by either player save the 2 drops Game 3 long and hilariously epic Game 4 Bisu failed to defend a 2-fact, again. Unless you hate Bisu or really like to see a offensive CC not to much great to watch about that game
On December 27 2009 15:08 MountainDewJunkie wrote: Set 4 not recommended? OP fail.
It's pretty clear from the OP "recommended game" note unironically labeling fantasy the better player compared to Calm without any real qualifiers that he is only really interested in SKT wins.
He also said they had "great multitasking."
That's pretty hilarious too.
Yeah, Fantasy has traditionally good multitasking but it's been below par lately. Calm's multitasking is currently his only real weakness - when he smooths out his ability to control more areas of the game at once he'll go from being a completely baller series player to nearly unstoppable... but right now his control becomes very spotty when things are happening all over.
On December 27 2009 15:08 MountainDewJunkie wrote: Set 4 not recommended? OP fail.
It's pretty clear from the OP "recommended game" note unironically labeling fantasy the better player compared to Calm without any real qualifiers that he is only really interested in SKT wins.
He also said they had "great multitasking."
That's pretty hilarious too.
pretty sure OP was making a joke about how horribly sloppy the play of the two was.
On December 27 2009 15:08 MountainDewJunkie wrote: Set 4 not recommended? OP fail.
It's pretty clear from the OP "recommended game" note unironically labeling fantasy the better player compared to Calm without any real qualifiers that he is only really interested in SKT wins.
He also said they had "great multitasking."
That's pretty hilarious too.
pretty sure OP was making a joke about how horribly sloppy the play of the two was.
He was defending it elsewhere in the thread unironically
And the line saying fantasy is "the better player" than Calm is just silly, I'm a fan of both players but that's a pretty damn unsupported claim to make
On December 27 2009 14:58 On_Slaught wrote: Looking past the manner CC, that was actually a pretty frightening build from Frozean considering the timing and power behind it.
Not really. Its pretty good vs fast expo builds like that but it gets raped by DT or Reavers. Actually it should not even beat what Bisu did, he just suicided all his goons for no good reason
I suppose Bisu just did what he could to make the build look better than it is .
I would say so, have to rewatch the game tho. Not to take anything away from Frozen since he did play it out well, but when the toss lose like 10goons with height advantage vs 5tanks without killing any tanks (dont think he killed any tanks, not 100% sure tho was watching the Leta-Hoejja game also) its usually an indication that the toss is doing something wrong the very least :p
On December 27 2009 15:08 MountainDewJunkie wrote: Set 4 not recommended? OP fail.
It's pretty clear from the OP "recommended game" note unironically labeling fantasy the better player compared to Calm without any real qualifiers that he is only really interested in SKT wins.
He also said they had "great multitasking."
That's pretty hilarious too.
I thought every set was exciting except set 1 [exciting =/= well played]. I mean, the Shuttle vs Best game was pretty entertaining too, up until the last 7 minutes.
On December 27 2009 15:16 Sunny Afternoon wrote: I thought set 2 was pretty entertaining. Until it started dragging on pointlessly.
Actually, I'll agree with that. The fact that Best actually could fend off those attacks while being 1-2 bases down was impressive in and of itself, despite the fact that it ended up not panning out.
Really though, I just think games like that highlight what is keeping Calm from a #1 spot despite having some of the smartest play around - he is not yet good at controlling action in many locations at once.
Look at his series vs. Backho for a great example of where Calm's game still needs work (or this game tonight). He is such a good player to have such a glaring weakness - I wonder if it's something he can fix and how his game will change if it does. I see him challenging Flash for the throne if he can improve in that area, because he definitely plays a smarter game overall than Jaedong (though jaedong will always have slightly better overall mechanics). It's an interesting trade and he gets around it a lot in series play but I want to see him take the next step.
On December 27 2009 15:14 TheYango wrote: EDIT: I'm surprised how little T1 nerdrage there's been so far. Disappointment sure, but I expected more straight up rage.
Fear of the banhammer.
After the OSL Ro8 Day 2 thread, I'm patrolling live reports. ^_^
On December 27 2009 15:14 TheYango wrote: EDIT: I'm surprised how little T1 nerdrage there's been so far. Disappointment sure, but I expected more straight up rage.
Fear of the banhammer.
After the OSL Ro8 Day 2 thread, I'm patrolling live reports. ^_^
On December 27 2009 16:03 MrHoon wrote: hahaha I just read Frozean interview
man what is with these drama inducing shit these days in esports
Don't just tease us, translate it >:
I want to see what Shuttle said, if it's like "the only reason I don't have more wins is because you bastards never play me" or something.
- You are 4:2 against Bisu including non-sanctioned games ▲ I remember all the games I played with Bisu. But if you add the map testing games, I am actually 6:2 against bisu. But bisu probably doesn't care about that. I may have put the score 1:1 in sanctioned games today but it wasn't a big deal for me.
Isn't this recommendation like... A LITTLE biased? "only point scored by my favorite team, where fantasy won even though he made lot's of mistake. let's pretend it was perfect game because it was 1 pt for skt!"
P.S. I'm really starting to wonder is Bisu really not practicing at all? Because he proved time and time again that he is very skilled but his performance, ESPECIALLY vs weaker players seems to tell us that he kinda doesn't care too much and doesn't prepare accordingly.
Definitely baaad attitude for S player and main reason why so many people prefer Stork to Bisu
On December 27 2009 19:24 Kaniol wrote: Isn't this recommendation like... A LITTLE biased? "only point scored by my favorite team, where fantasy won even though he made lot's of mistake. let's pretend it was perfect game because it was 1 pt for skt!"
No kidding. That was some of the most brutal MnM control I've seen from a progamer. The strategy was great though.
P.S. I'm really starting to wonder is Bisu really not practicing at all? Because he proved time and time again that he is very skilled but his performance, ESPECIALLY vs weaker players seems to tell us that he kinda doesn't care too much and doesn't prepare accordingly.
Definitely baaad attitude for S player and main reason why so many people prefer Stork to Bisu
I think it's not that he doesn't practice, but rather Bisu likes his economic openings against terran. It's just a different style from Stork, who usually go for aggressive BO and use that to scout terran tech. Both style has its strengths and weaknesses. It's just that Bisu tends to look bad when he lose because they're to 2-fac pushes. Whereas Stork can get in trouble if the terran gets his economy faster.
I definitely need to check out the Calm/Fantasy VOD, I love games between them. Is it just me or is anyone else feelin' a rivalry between the two of them?
On December 28 2009 01:56 DoctorHelvetica wrote: Bisu is slumping pretty hard, it makes me happy.
I definitely need to check out the Calm/Fantasy VOD, I love games between them. Is it just me or is anyone else feelin' a rivalry between the two of them?
Well Calm vs Fantasy's game were certainly better than Jaedong vs Flash
On December 28 2009 01:56 DoctorHelvetica wrote: Bisu is slumping pretty hard, it makes me happy.
I definitely need to check out the Calm/Fantasy VOD, I love games between them. Is it just me or is anyone else feelin' a rivalry between the two of them?
Four games in the last month and a half? I think they need a starleague final or winners league/playoff match-up to make it official.
But if they keep playing each other, they're on their way.
On December 27 2009 16:14 Avidkeystamper wrote: Err, that doesn't go well. "frozean sux blah blah blah" "You're right, frozean is bad, what does that make Bisu?"
Tell that to the Stork fanboys/Shine haters in the OSL Ro8 Week 2 thread.
On December 27 2009 19:24 Kaniol wrote: Definitely baaad attitude for S player and main reason why so many people prefer Stork to Bisu
The reason people prefer Stork over Bisu is simple bandwagoning with the player who's winning games. It's why there's less nerdrage in recent Bisu losses than in Stork's--all the bandwagon fans have jumped ship.
Was Bisu's pvt ever stable? As far as I can remember, he would always lose the most random games to terran. Like I literally cannot remember the last time he could reliably beat terran - unlike say stork or jangbi.
On December 27 2009 16:14 Avidkeystamper wrote: Err, that doesn't go well. "frozean sux blah blah blah" "You're right, frozean is bad, what does that make Bisu?"
Tell that to the Stork fanboys/Shine haters in the OSL Ro8 Week 2 thread.
On December 27 2009 19:24 Kaniol wrote: Definitely baaad attitude for S player and main reason why so many people prefer Stork to Bisu
The reason people prefer Stork over Bisu is simple bandwagoning with the player who's winning games. It's why there's less nerdrage in recent Bisu losses than in Stork's--all the bandwagon fans have jumped ship.
On December 27 2009 16:14 Avidkeystamper wrote: Err, that doesn't go well. "frozean sux blah blah blah" "You're right, frozean is bad, what does that make Bisu?"
Tell that to the Stork fanboys/Shine haters in the OSL Ro8 Week 2 thread.
Think of it this way, stork was the better player, zerg was the better race.
On December 27 2009 16:14 Avidkeystamper wrote: Err, that doesn't go well. "frozean sux blah blah blah" "You're right, frozean is bad, what does that make Bisu?"
Tell that to the Stork fanboys/Shine haters in the OSL Ro8 Week 2 thread.
Think of it this way, stork was the better player, zerg was the better race.
Id rather blame El Nino for losing Stork the series than zergs being the 'better race'.
Sure game 3 did contain zerg gayness but il firmly put the ball in storks park for failing to count the drones and getting so thrown off balance after he barely blocked the runby.
On December 27 2009 16:14 Avidkeystamper wrote: Err, that doesn't go well. "frozean sux blah blah blah" "You're right, frozean is bad, what does that make Bisu?"
Tell that to the Stork fanboys/Shine haters in the OSL Ro8 Week 2 thread.
Think of it this way, stork was the better player, zerg was the better race.
Id rather blame El Nino for losing Stork the series than zergs being the 'better race'.
Sure game 3 did contain zerg gayness but il firmly put the ball in storks park for failing to count the drones and getting so thrown off balance after he barely blocked the runby.
He did pretty much what he can do. He didn't see the zergling camped outside his natural so he know that shine was mining out his backdoor nat, except that Stork didn't expect shine to pull off a drone so early and start mining his backdoor min. Stork did a great job fending it off unlike movie who just probably thought oh look, I don't see lings outside my base and jaedong's base is empty, he must not be a nub and not mining my backdoor mineral, I think I'll just go rack up some drone kills, and lost. Its much easier for us to just go why didn't he do that, but what stork did was great in the fact that although he didn't know what shine was doing exactly, he still knew in the end. Zerg was just the better race on that map.
On December 27 2009 16:14 Avidkeystamper wrote: Err, that doesn't go well. "frozean sux blah blah blah" "You're right, frozean is bad, what does that make Bisu?"
Tell that to the Stork fanboys/Shine haters in the OSL Ro8 Week 2 thread.
On December 27 2009 19:24 Kaniol wrote: Definitely baaad attitude for S player and main reason why so many people prefer Stork to Bisu
The reason people prefer Stork over Bisu is simple bandwagoning with the player who's winning games. It's why there's less nerdrage in recent Bisu losses than in Stork's--all the bandwagon fans have jumped ship.
People nerdraged over Stork losing because a possible Flash v Shine final is laughable.
fantasy vs calm as recommended game? gtfo skt1 fanboy, that game was so bad, there was one point fantasy walked 2 control groups m&m and 3 tanks through 3 lurkers
On December 28 2009 08:43 saltywet wrote: fantasy vs calm as recommended game? gtfo skt1 fanboy, that game was so bad, there was one point fantasy walked 2 control groups m&m and 3 tanks through 3 lurkers
gtfo STX fanboy The players sucked that game but it was hella entertaining to watch. Bad Play=/= not entertaining and worthwhile game.
On December 28 2009 08:43 saltywet wrote: fantasy vs calm as recommended game? gtfo skt1 fanboy, that game was so bad, there was one point fantasy walked 2 control groups m&m and 3 tanks through 3 lurkers
It was hilariously bad. Thats why its recommended. There were quite a few games where the hilariously bad games are just so hilariously bad that it just gets recommended.
Whenever Bisu loses in a disappointing fashion he normally just gets his smiley face and goes "uhuhuh well everyone makes mistakes I guess I'll own him next time :D"
I have never seen bisu so pissed off after a loss
and guys, stop shitting on bisu the guy had enough shit taken on him
just realized he has a winning record vs bisu, jaedong and flash
There's a reason everyone says that if "Forgg ever gets back in shape KT will be unstoppable." He was honest to goodness the best player in the world at one point after consistently dismantling every other top player like playthings.
just realized he has a winning record vs bisu, jaedong and flash
There's a reason everyone says that if "Forgg ever gets back in shape KT will be unstoppable." He was honest to goodness the best player in the world at one point after consistently dismantling every other top player like playthings.
Then poof slump for the entirety of 09. :>
You can say that about many teams.
If savior becomes the old savior then CJ will be unstoppable. If jangbi and fbh get back to their prime then the only way to take down khan is to have a good zerg line up. If boxer and oov gets back into shape, wow.
just realized he has a winning record vs bisu, jaedong and flash
There's a reason everyone says that if "Forgg ever gets back in shape KT will be unstoppable." He was honest to goodness the best player in the world at one point after consistently dismantling every other top player like playthings.
Then poof slump for the entirety of 09. :>
You can say that about many teams.
If savior becomes the old savior then CJ will be unstoppable. If jangbi and fbh get back to their prime then the only way to take down khan is to have a good zerg line up. If boxer and oov gets back into shape, wow.
QFT! Btw even if they do have a good Zerg lineup vs Khan, FBH will take care of that. lol
just realized he has a winning record vs bisu, jaedong and flash
There's a reason everyone says that if "Forgg ever gets back in shape KT will be unstoppable." He was honest to goodness the best player in the world at one point after consistently dismantling every other top player like playthings.
Then poof slump for the entirety of 09. :>
You can say that about many teams.
If savior becomes the old savior then CJ will be unstoppable. If jangbi and fbh get back to their prime then the only way to take down khan is to have a good zerg line up. If boxer and oov gets back into shape, wow.
Um...no. You can't say that about Oov/Boxer/Savior. I'm pretty sure they said, atleast while all were playing, that they're better now than they were in their prime, just that competition has gotten fiercer.
Forgg was better than he is now. There's no getting around it. He beat Kal, Jaedong, and Flash in absolutely dominating fashion on his title run. He played some absolutely amazing and impressive starcraft, even by today's standards. This was all directly after Flash won his OSL, Jaedong won his MSL, and Kal was runner up in the MSL -- all were in peak condition before Forgg shut them down.
The same DOES go for Jangbi and Firebathero, though. But Firebathero was never a title winner who stomped the best players in amazing fashion. Same kind of goes for Best/Fantasy/Jangbi, too, though they, at their best, are certainly much more impressive than now.
ForGG is the only person on this list that stomped the best players in the modern age (With exception to Stork, who is definitely Forgg's canemaster). Savior/Oov/Boxer/Nada/Best/Jangbi/Firebathero never simultaneously took down the likes of Flash/Jaedong/Kal/Bisu, and did so convincingly. They may have good records against a couple of them, but it's hard to compare to Forgg's prime.
just realized he has a winning record vs bisu, jaedong and flash
There's a reason everyone says that if "Forgg ever gets back in shape KT will be unstoppable." He was honest to goodness the best player in the world at one point after consistently dismantling every other top player like playthings.
Then poof slump for the entirety of 09. :>
You can say that about many teams.
If savior becomes the old savior then CJ will be unstoppable. If jangbi and fbh get back to their prime then the only way to take down khan is to have a good zerg line up. If boxer and oov gets back into shape, wow.
Yea but no one doubts any of the players that you listed, they were well-known. ForGG, on the other hand, isn't given that much credit by a lot of new players. They just know him for the mess that he is now.
just realized he has a winning record vs bisu, jaedong and flash
There's a reason everyone says that if "Forgg ever gets back in shape KT will be unstoppable." He was honest to goodness the best player in the world at one point after consistently dismantling every other top player like playthings.
Then poof slump for the entirety of 09. :>
You can say that about many teams.
If savior becomes the old savior then CJ will be unstoppable. If jangbi and fbh get back to their prime then the only way to take down khan is to have a good zerg line up. If boxer and oov gets back into shape, wow.
The thing with Boxer, Savior (and perhaps Oov but he never really plays anymore so who knows) is that they're probably playing the best Starcraft of their lives right now. Everyone else is just better than them, they can't really keep up. Boxer still has his micro and cheesy builds, Savior can still use hive tech very well, and Oov still has his game sense and understanding of Starcraft and you can see it in their play.
Jangbi, FBH, and Forgg are similar and that is that their slumps are pretty unexplainable and their skill level literally deteriorated literally overnight. Jangbi, who has the highest PvT ELO peak, has slumped so far that he even has trouble against terran players, FBH, who used to be a monster at TvT and TvZ, can't even win against CuteAngel, and Forgg's decision making and timing is now completely shot. Forgg is a curious case because the minute he won the Arena MSL, he basically turned into a retard.
just realized he has a winning record vs bisu, jaedong and flash
There's a reason everyone says that if "Forgg ever gets back in shape KT will be unstoppable." He was honest to goodness the best player in the world at one point after consistently dismantling every other top player like playthings.
Then poof slump for the entirety of 09. :>
You can say that about many teams.
If savior becomes the old savior then CJ will be unstoppable. If jangbi and fbh get back to their prime then the only way to take down khan is to have a good zerg line up. If boxer and oov gets back into shape, wow.
Um...no. You can't say that about Oov/Boxer/Savior. I'm pretty sure they said, atleast while all were playing, that they're better now than they were in their prime, just that competition has gotten fiercer.
Forgg was better than he is now. There's no getting around it. He beat Kal, Jaedong, and Flash in absolutely dominating fashion on his title run. He played some absolutely amazing and impressive starcraft, even by today's standards. This was all directly after Flash won his OSL, Jaedong won his MSL, and Kal was runner up in the MSL -- all were in peak condition before Forgg shut them down.
The same DOES go for Jangbi and Firebathero, though. But Firebathero was never a title winner who stomped the best players in amazing fashion. Same kind of goes for Best/Fantasy/Jangbi, too, though they, at their best, are certainly much more impressive than now.
ForGG is the only person on this list that stomped the best players in the modern age (With exception to Stork, who is definitely Forgg's canemaster). Savior/Oov/Boxer/Nada/Best/Jangbi/Firebathero never simultaneously took down the likes of Flash/Jaedong/Kal/Bisu, and did so convincingly. They may have good records against a couple of them, but it's hard to compare to Forgg's prime.
Guy just lost it. =\
Ask Oz fans, Forgg was a wrecking machine.
Are you kidding? Savior is playing much worse than he used too. He isn't focusing on large army micro anymore. People say savior has gotten worse because competition has gotten fierce, but I also believe that Savior is just playing worse and his fpvods show is. That is why I believe Savior can make a comeback as long as he starts playing like he used to. The same might not be applicable to boxer and oov, but they definitely are playing worse than before. FBH never won a title partly because of his tvp, but his tvt and tvz was good enough to get a title. And I would dare to say Jangbi prime>forgg prime anyday.
Savior maybe could be a little better, but remember why Savior became less relevant -- he was completely destroyed by Bisu. The modern era is why Savior isn't amazing. ForGG's time was during the modern era.
Anyhow, Jangbi vs ForGG in their primes, depends on who they're up against. Versus each other, Jangbi's definitely the favorite because Jangbi at his best is just a more efficient, less creative Stork. But up against Bisu or Jaedong? ForGG has the better shot over Jangbi by a LOT.
just realized he has a winning record vs bisu, jaedong and flash
There's a reason everyone says that if "Forgg ever gets back in shape KT will be unstoppable." He was honest to goodness the best player in the world at one point after consistently dismantling every other top player like playthings.
Then poof slump for the entirety of 09. :>
You can say that about many teams.
If savior becomes the old savior then CJ will be unstoppable. If jangbi and fbh get back to their prime then the only way to take down khan is to have a good zerg line up. If boxer and oov gets back into shape, wow.
Um...no. You can't say that about Oov/Boxer/Savior. I'm pretty sure they said, atleast while all were playing, that they're better now than they were in their prime, just that competition has gotten fiercer.
Forgg was better than he is now. There's no getting around it. He beat Kal, Jaedong, and Flash in absolutely dominating fashion on his title run. He played some absolutely amazing and impressive starcraft, even by today's standards. This was all directly after Flash won his OSL, Jaedong won his MSL, and Kal was runner up in the MSL -- all were in peak condition before Forgg shut them down.
The same DOES go for Jangbi and Firebathero, though. But Firebathero was never a title winner who stomped the best players in amazing fashion. Same kind of goes for Best/Fantasy/Jangbi, too, though they, at their best, are certainly much more impressive than now.
ForGG is the only person on this list that stomped the best players in the modern age (With exception to Stork, who is definitely Forgg's canemaster). Savior/Oov/Boxer/Nada/Best/Jangbi/Firebathero never simultaneously took down the likes of Flash/Jaedong/Kal/Bisu, and did so convincingly. They may have good records against a couple of them, but it's hard to compare to Forgg's prime.
Guy just lost it. =\
Ask Oz fans, Forgg was a wrecking machine.
Are you kidding? Savior is playing much worse than he used too. He isn't focusing on large army micro anymore. People say savior has gotten worse because competition has gotten fierce, but I also believe that Savior is just playing worse and his fpvods show is. That is why I believe Savior can make a comeback as long as he starts playing like he used to. The same might not be applicable to boxer and oov, but they definitely are playing worse than before. FBH never won a title partly because of his tvp, but his tvt and tvz was good enough to get a title. And I would dare to say Jangbi prime>forgg prime anyday.
sAviOr is getting much worse results than ever, but he's definitely improved as a player. Even he admits it. Watch the Shinhan 3 finals, which was sloppy zvt versus sloppy tvz (by modern standards) and then watch his games against Leta and UpMaGiC in early 2009. He's improved a lot, everyone else really is just that much better.
On December 28 2009 13:18 TwoToneTerran wrote: Savior maybe could be a little better, but remember why Savior became less relevant -- he was completely destroyed by Bisu. The modern era is why Savior isn't amazing. ForGG's time was during the modern era.
Anyhow, Jangbi vs ForGG in their primes, depends on who they're up against. Versus each other, Jangbi's definitely the favorite because Jangbi at his best is just a more efficient, less creative Stork. But up against Bisu or Jaedong? ForGG has the better shot over Jangbi by a LOT.
Forgg's tvp was as good as jangbi's pvz in their primes. He might be able to take on bisu, but bisu's pvt isn't too special. Stork and jangbi definitely have better pvt than forgg.
just realized he has a winning record vs bisu, jaedong and flash
There's a reason everyone says that if "Forgg ever gets back in shape KT will be unstoppable." He was honest to goodness the best player in the world at one point after consistently dismantling every other top player like playthings.
Then poof slump for the entirety of 09. :>
You can say that about many teams.
If savior becomes the old savior then CJ will be unstoppable. If jangbi and fbh get back to their prime then the only way to take down khan is to have a good zerg line up. If boxer and oov gets back into shape, wow.
Um...no. You can't say that about Oov/Boxer/Savior. I'm pretty sure they said, atleast while all were playing, that they're better now than they were in their prime, just that competition has gotten fiercer.
Forgg was better than he is now. There's no getting around it. He beat Kal, Jaedong, and Flash in absolutely dominating fashion on his title run. He played some absolutely amazing and impressive starcraft, even by today's standards. This was all directly after Flash won his OSL, Jaedong won his MSL, and Kal was runner up in the MSL -- all were in peak condition before Forgg shut them down.
The same DOES go for Jangbi and Firebathero, though. But Firebathero was never a title winner who stomped the best players in amazing fashion. Same kind of goes for Best/Fantasy/Jangbi, too, though they, at their best, are certainly much more impressive than now.
ForGG is the only person on this list that stomped the best players in the modern age (With exception to Stork, who is definitely Forgg's canemaster). Savior/Oov/Boxer/Nada/Best/Jangbi/Firebathero never simultaneously took down the likes of Flash/Jaedong/Kal/Bisu, and did so convincingly. They may have good records against a couple of them, but it's hard to compare to Forgg's prime.
Guy just lost it. =\
Ask Oz fans, Forgg was a wrecking machine.
Are you kidding? Savior is playing much worse than he used too. He isn't focusing on large army micro anymore. People say savior has gotten worse because competition has gotten fierce, but I also believe that Savior is just playing worse and his fpvods show is. That is why I believe Savior can make a comeback as long as he starts playing like he used to. The same might not be applicable to boxer and oov, but they definitely are playing worse than before. FBH never won a title partly because of his tvp, but his tvt and tvz was good enough to get a title. And I would dare to say Jangbi prime>forgg prime anyday.
sAviOr is getting much worse results than ever, but he's definitely improved as a player. Even he admits it. Watch the Shinhan 3 finals, which was sloppy zvt versus sloppy tvz (by modern standards) and then watch his games against Leta and UpMaGiC in early 2009. He's improved a lot, everyone else really is just that much better.
His recent games are getting much better, but his mid 2009 games were just terrible. I honestly think that savior is worse than during his prime.
On December 28 2009 14:04 MuffinDude wrote: [ Forgg's tvp was as good as jangbi's pvz in their primes. He might be able to take on bisu, but bisu's pvt isn't too special. Stork and jangbi definitely have better pvt than forgg.
Jangbi's PvZ was never really good, he just out multitasked and harrassed mediocre zergs, the only good zergs Ive ever recalled him beating, And if you recall Forgg beat Jangbi in proleague championsips with one of the craziest timing pushes while during which jangbi killed all his scvs and nevertheless still was crushed. That being said forgg hasnt really shown any of that prowess in anything other than really 1 game at a time.
On December 28 2009 14:04 MuffinDude wrote: [ Forgg's tvp was as good as jangbi's pvz in their primes. He might be able to take on bisu, but bisu's pvt isn't too special. Stork and jangbi definitely have better pvt than forgg.
Jangbi's PvZ was never really good, he just out multitasked and harrassed mediocre zergs, the only good zergs Ive ever recalled him beating, And if you recall Forgg beat Jangbi in proleague championsips with one of the craziest timing pushes while during which jangbi killed all his scvs and nevertheless still was crushed. That being said forgg hasnt really shown any of that prowess in anything other than really 1 game at a time.
When jangbi was at his prime, he was arguable the 2nd best pvzer at the moment. Movie hasn't really broken through yet and stork had about the same pvz as jangbi did. I remembered one game jangbi completely steamrolled effort that jangbi had more storms than he knew what to do with. But this was a time when I could laugh at effort and nobody would care. But jangbi had one of the best pvz out there just because there really aren't any good pvzers out there.
On December 28 2009 16:40 Avidkeystamper wrote: Does any non-STX fan realize that Shuttle is 9-2 PvP, both losses coming from Bisu? Dayum.
Shuttle is awesome all around :3. His TvP record -looks- awful, but the caliber of players he's losing to is for the most part pretty high - HiyA, Flash, Mind, Light, and Sea are all good, and he recently beat ZerO at ZvP. On almost any other team, he'd seeing consistant play.
On December 28 2009 14:04 MuffinDude wrote: [ Forgg's tvp was as good as jangbi's pvz in their primes. He might be able to take on bisu, but bisu's pvt isn't too special. Stork and jangbi definitely have better pvt than forgg.
Jangbi's PvZ was never really good, he just out multitasked and harrassed mediocre zergs, the only good zergs Ive ever recalled him beating, And if you recall Forgg beat Jangbi in proleague championsips with one of the craziest timing pushes while during which jangbi killed all his scvs and nevertheless still was crushed. That being said forgg hasnt really shown any of that prowess in anything other than really 1 game at a time.
When jangbi was at his prime, he was arguable the 2nd best pvzer at the moment. Movie hasn't really broken through yet and stork had about the same pvz as jangbi did. I remembered one game jangbi completely steamrolled effort that jangbi had more storms than he knew what to do with. But this was a time when I could laugh at effort and nobody would care. But jangbi had one of the best pvz out there just because there really aren't any good pvzers out there.
On December 28 2009 14:04 MuffinDude wrote: [ Forgg's tvp was as good as jangbi's pvz in their primes. He might be able to take on bisu, but bisu's pvt isn't too special. Stork and jangbi definitely have better pvt than forgg.
Jangbi's PvZ was never really good, he just out multitasked and harrassed mediocre zergs, the only good zergs Ive ever recalled him beating, And if you recall Forgg beat Jangbi in proleague championsips with one of the craziest timing pushes while during which jangbi killed all his scvs and nevertheless still was crushed. That being said forgg hasnt really shown any of that prowess in anything other than really 1 game at a time.
When jangbi was at his prime, he was arguable the 2nd best pvzer at the moment. Movie hasn't really broken through yet and stork had about the same pvz as jangbi did. I remembered one game jangbi completely steamrolled effort that jangbi had more storms than he knew what to do with. But this was a time when I could laugh at effort and nobody would care. But jangbi had one of the best pvz out there just because there really aren't any good pvzers out there.
I miss Jangbi
Hes so much cooler than stork.
Well, the reason why Jangbi's so cool is because his style is so aggressive. But that's also his downfall. He relies so much on mechanics that he lacks Stork's decision-making. So ironically, for Jangbi to rebound from his slump, he'd have to play more like Stork and not try to be so cool.
SKT is in no SLUMP what so ever and I just realized it looking at this series. Putting Best in PvP again (did he win a PvP this season?!) and a weak B team Zerg again to give an early advantage by 0-2-ing own team by THE COACH! Is there a rule that doesn't allow to play a PL series without a Zerg player?
On December 28 2009 22:30 Hazard wrote: SKT is in no SLUMP what so ever and I just realized it looking at this series. Putting Best in PvP again (did he win a PvP this season?!) and a weak B team Zerg again to give an early advantage is 0-2-ing own team by THE COACH! Is there a rule that doesn't allow to play a PL series without a Zerg player?
Teams have to send out at least 1 player of each race.
On December 28 2009 14:04 MuffinDude wrote: [ Forgg's tvp was as good as jangbi's pvz in their primes. He might be able to take on bisu, but bisu's pvt isn't too special. Stork and jangbi definitely have better pvt than forgg.
Jangbi's PvZ was never really good, he just out multitasked and harrassed mediocre zergs, the only good zergs Ive ever recalled him beating, And if you recall Forgg beat Jangbi in proleague championsips with one of the craziest timing pushes while during which jangbi killed all his scvs and nevertheless still was crushed. That being said forgg hasnt really shown any of that prowess in anything other than really 1 game at a time.
When jangbi was at his prime, he was arguable the 2nd best pvzer at the moment. Movie hasn't really broken through yet and stork had about the same pvz as jangbi did. I remembered one game jangbi completely steamrolled effort that jangbi had more storms than he knew what to do with. But this was a time when I could laugh at effort and nobody would care. But jangbi had one of the best pvz out there just because there really aren't any good pvzers out there.
You're forgetting Kal. His PvZ was always better than Jangbi's / Stork's.
On December 28 2009 14:04 MuffinDude wrote: [ Forgg's tvp was as good as jangbi's pvz in their primes. He might be able to take on bisu, but bisu's pvt isn't too special. Stork and jangbi definitely have better pvt than forgg.
Jangbi's PvZ was never really good, he just out multitasked and harrassed mediocre zergs, the only good zergs Ive ever recalled him beating, And if you recall Forgg beat Jangbi in proleague championsips with one of the craziest timing pushes while during which jangbi killed all his scvs and nevertheless still was crushed. That being said forgg hasnt really shown any of that prowess in anything other than really 1 game at a time.
When jangbi was at his prime, he was arguable the 2nd best pvzer at the moment. Movie hasn't really broken through yet and stork had about the same pvz as jangbi did. I remembered one game jangbi completely steamrolled effort that jangbi had more storms than he knew what to do with. But this was a time when I could laugh at effort and nobody would care. But jangbi had one of the best pvz out there just because there really aren't any good pvzers out there.
You're forgetting Kal. His PvZ was always better than Jangbi's / Stork's.
Correction, at his peak performance, his msl run, his pvz was really good, now its just another pvz.
On December 28 2009 14:04 MuffinDude wrote: [ Forgg's tvp was as good as jangbi's pvz in their primes. He might be able to take on bisu, but bisu's pvt isn't too special. Stork and jangbi definitely have better pvt than forgg.
Jangbi's PvZ was never really good, he just out multitasked and harrassed mediocre zergs, the only good zergs Ive ever recalled him beating, And if you recall Forgg beat Jangbi in proleague championsips with one of the craziest timing pushes while during which jangbi killed all his scvs and nevertheless still was crushed. That being said forgg hasnt really shown any of that prowess in anything other than really 1 game at a time.
When jangbi was at his prime, he was arguable the 2nd best pvzer at the moment. Movie hasn't really broken through yet and stork had about the same pvz as jangbi did. I remembered one game jangbi completely steamrolled effort that jangbi had more storms than he knew what to do with. But this was a time when I could laugh at effort and nobody would care. But jangbi had one of the best pvz out there just because there really aren't any good pvzers out there.
You're forgetting Kal. His PvZ was always better than Jangbi's / Stork's.
Correction, at his peak performance, his msl run, his pvz was really good, now its just another pvz.
On December 28 2009 14:04 MuffinDude wrote: [ Forgg's tvp was as good as jangbi's pvz in their primes. He might be able to take on bisu, but bisu's pvt isn't too special. Stork and jangbi definitely have better pvt than forgg.
Jangbi's PvZ was never really good, he just out multitasked and harrassed mediocre zergs, the only good zergs Ive ever recalled him beating, And if you recall Forgg beat Jangbi in proleague championsips with one of the craziest timing pushes while during which jangbi killed all his scvs and nevertheless still was crushed. That being said forgg hasnt really shown any of that prowess in anything other than really 1 game at a time.
When jangbi was at his prime, he was arguable the 2nd best pvzer at the moment. Movie hasn't really broken through yet and stork had about the same pvz as jangbi did. I remembered one game jangbi completely steamrolled effort that jangbi had more storms than he knew what to do with. But this was a time when I could laugh at effort and nobody would care. But jangbi had one of the best pvz out there just because there really aren't any good pvzers out there.
You're forgetting Kal. His PvZ was always better than Jangbi's / Stork's.
Correction, at his peak performance, his msl run, his pvz was really good, now its just another pvz.
On December 28 2009 14:04 MuffinDude wrote: [ Forgg's tvp was as good as jangbi's pvz in their primes. He might be able to take on bisu, but bisu's pvt isn't too special. Stork and jangbi definitely have better pvt than forgg.
Jangbi's PvZ was never really good, he just out multitasked and harrassed mediocre zergs, the only good zergs Ive ever recalled him beating, And if you recall Forgg beat Jangbi in proleague championsips with one of the craziest timing pushes while during which jangbi killed all his scvs and nevertheless still was crushed. That being said forgg hasnt really shown any of that prowess in anything other than really 1 game at a time.
When jangbi was at his prime, he was arguable the 2nd best pvzer at the moment. Movie hasn't really broken through yet and stork had about the same pvz as jangbi did. I remembered one game jangbi completely steamrolled effort that jangbi had more storms than he knew what to do with. But this was a time when I could laugh at effort and nobody would care. But jangbi had one of the best pvz out there just because there really aren't any good pvzers out there.
You're forgetting Kal. His PvZ was always better than Jangbi's / Stork's.
Correction, at his peak performance, his msl run, his pvz was really good, now its just another pvz.
You must not have seen Kal's recent pvzs
or any of his PvZs during "jangbi's pvz peak"
kal has always been better than jangbi at PvZ
Jangbi in his prime, he definitely had better pvz than kal at that moment.
And about kal's recent pvz, he beaten soo and whole bunch other nonamers. So scary. Only good win was against typeb and overhyped hyuk. He lost to all better pvz players like kwanro and jaedong and even got out of osl prelims by just. Yes awesome pvz.
just realized he has a winning record vs bisu, jaedong and flash
There's a reason everyone says that if "Forgg ever gets back in shape KT will be unstoppable." He was honest to goodness the best player in the world at one point after consistently dismantling every other top player like playthings.
Then poof slump for the entirety of 09. :>
You can say that about many teams.
If savior becomes the old savior then CJ will be unstoppable. If jangbi and fbh get back to their prime then the only way to take down khan is to have a good zerg line up. If boxer and oov gets back into shape, wow.
Um...no. You can't say that about Oov/Boxer/Savior. I'm pretty sure they said, atleast while all were playing, that they're better now than they were in their prime, just that competition has gotten fiercer.
Forgg was better than he is now. There's no getting around it. He beat Kal, Jaedong, and Flash in absolutely dominating fashion on his title run. He played some absolutely amazing and impressive starcraft, even by today's standards. This was all directly after Flash won his OSL, Jaedong won his MSL, and Kal was runner up in the MSL -- all were in peak condition before Forgg shut them down.
The same DOES go for Jangbi and Firebathero, though. But Firebathero was never a title winner who stomped the best players in amazing fashion. Same kind of goes for Best/Fantasy/Jangbi, too, though they, at their best, are certainly much more impressive than now.
ForGG is the only person on this list that stomped the best players in the modern age (With exception to Stork, who is definitely Forgg's canemaster). Savior/Oov/Boxer/Nada/Best/Jangbi/Firebathero never simultaneously took down the likes of Flash/Jaedong/Kal/Bisu, and did so convincingly. They may have good records against a couple of them, but it's hard to compare to Forgg's prime.
Guy just lost it. =\
Ask Oz fans, Forgg was a wrecking machine.
Are you kidding? Savior is playing much worse than he used too. He isn't focusing on large army micro anymore. People say savior has gotten worse because competition has gotten fierce, but I also believe that Savior is just playing worse and his fpvods show is. That is why I believe Savior can make a comeback as long as he starts playing like he used to. The same might not be applicable to boxer and oov, but they definitely are playing worse than before. FBH never won a title partly because of his tvp, but his tvt and tvz was good enough to get a title. And I would dare to say Jangbi prime>forgg prime anyday.
sAviOr is getting much worse results than ever, but he's definitely improved as a player. Even he admits it. Watch the Shinhan 3 finals, which was sloppy zvt versus sloppy tvz (by modern standards) and then watch his games against Leta and UpMaGiC in early 2009. He's improved a lot, everyone else really is just that much better.
Savior's play in early 2009 was at least top5 zerg worthy, but now its gotten weaker again...
EPT![[image loading]](http://i47.tinypic.com/w9cf9v.png)
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Kal vs 
n.Die_soO on New Heartbreak Ridge
fantasy on New Tornado![[image loading]](http://img402.imageshack.us/img402/6526/predictionspng.png)
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