On October 21 2009 12:56 siv00 wrote: I think Reach can win a PvP, but every other set favors STX massively
vs Kal? Not likely. I'd say Gorush and Darkelf are more likely to upset. Despite Hwasin's mediocre performance as of late, Id say he's the biggest lock here.
On October 21 2009 12:56 siv00 wrote: I think Reach can win a PvP, but every other set favors STX massively
vs Kal? Not likely. I'd say Gorush and Darkelf are more likely to upset. Despite Hwasin's mediocre performance as of late, Id say he's the biggest lock here.
Reach is the only one playing a MU he is actually good at.
On October 21 2009 13:40 tedster wrote: Ruby looked really good that game (and has looked good in general lately). Hwasin was outplayed pretty much the entire game.
Umm no, lol, 2 fac vult vs scouted 2 port is pretty much a BO loss.
ace fighting ~ sucks i cant watch it... Daezang and Oversky got quite good too after initially joining.. altho im not sure how good/bad they were before joining... Same goes for Ruby tho
Daezang was part of the Free/GGPlay/Daezang chimera that defined Hanbit/Woongjin before he joined ACE. OversKy was the CJ Zerg to go to between the sAviOr era and the EffOrt era.
On October 21 2009 13:50 Crunchums wrote: Why do you have your recommended games spoiling the match results : /
fixed that... in the past, I've used the recommended games as sort of a game descriptions for people who don't want to scroll through the live report but whatever
On October 21 2009 13:47 scintilliaSD wrote: Daezang was part of the Free/GGPlay/Daezang chimera that defined Hanbit/Woongjin before he joined ACE. OversKy was the CJ Zerg to go to between the sAviOr era and the EffOrt era.
But i dont think they had that good a reputation at the moment they joined ACE or did they? (aka washed up rep at best).... and oversky between savior and effort era? O_o I think he was in ACE in that period? +_+
On October 21 2009 13:47 scintilliaSD wrote: Daezang was part of the Free/GGPlay/Daezang chimera that defined Hanbit/Woongjin before he joined ACE. OversKy was the CJ Zerg to go to between the sAviOr era and the EffOrt era.
But i dont think they had that good a reputation at the moment they joined ACE or did they? (aka washed up rep at best).... and oversky between savior and effort era? O_o I think he was in ACE in that period? +_+
He joiend ACE sometime in that period. I remember him playing some good games in CJ, I think.
On October 21 2009 13:57 iamho wrote: terrible manner pylon from reach
??? That manner pylon forced like 8 probes to mine from the back at once, it was great.
you might be right, i only saw the pylon after the goon started attacking it
It was actually one of the better ones ive seen it disrupted the pathing of the entire top half of probes. Regardless Reach is pretty ahead in eco right now.
ok question. right here, reach has his expo earlier but did absolutely no damage with his DTs, and kal did not damage with his counter except make reach 2 storms and his natural was out a little later. so who the fux is ahead? wouldnt it be reach since he has cannons and thus more protected bases? or kal because hes got robo and reaver?
On October 21 2009 13:47 scintilliaSD wrote: Daezang was part of the Free/GGPlay/Daezang chimera that defined Hanbit/Woongjin before he joined ACE. OversKy was the CJ Zerg to go to between the sAviOr era and the EffOrt era.
But i dont think they had that good a reputation at the moment they joined ACE or did they? (aka washed up rep at best).... and oversky between savior and effort era? O_o I think he was in ACE in that period? +_+
He joiend ACE sometime in that period. I remember him playing some good games in CJ, I think.
Oversky joined ACE in the summer of 2007, which was right when sAviOr began slumping - he was never the stop gap between the sAviOr era and the EffOrt era, but he was a solid player before he left for ACE. Nothing amazing, but he wasn't washed up at all - far from it. DaezanG wasn't doing as well as OversKy (he was in a bit of a slump), but he still wasn't that far removed from an MSL appearance and some decent results. Both players were far from being totally washed up when they joined - they could have contributed to their teams in PL, and OversKy had to drop out of an MSL (he was in the Ro8 I think?).
On October 21 2009 14:19 iamho wrote: its weird how shuttle always gets stuck playing his worst mu
lol what? Have you seen any of his PvTs OO? its his 2nd best mu, and its dragon level, the only reason the record is shit is his starting games and mass games vs flash this season, his pvz is sloppy and it his worst mu, I didnt watch any of his pvps but I assume its pretty good. YJ is a really underestimated player,especially his PvT which is SICK, just watch his games vs Flash.
Edit: Look at his recent record(20-30 games) excluding his games vs Flash and youll see he has pretty good PvT
When I move to the US and get OGN it'll be the happiest day of my life.
I would, however, like to express my appreciation to the host for streaming it, nonetheless. Don't let my bitching give you the illusion that I'm not intensely grateful for the days I can watch smooth starcraft. ^_^
can someone explain why he backed off when he was knocking on shuttle's last online expo? i mean, he was miles ahead so it won't matter, but what was his reasoning?
But then again, this early in the season, I wouldn't be surprised if ACE somehow managed to send Killer. Who knows? He might've been conscripted this morning.
I never remembered Darkelf having good macro, so I thought he was doomed after the early timing push was broken. Shuttle knows he was in good position to win and gave it away, too. He was pretty upset.
On October 21 2009 14:51 SplashbackFerret wrote: maybe the slip said Calm, in which case you'll need to find the only ACE player not laughing to find out who they're sending out.
On October 21 2009 14:31 integral wrote: Whoever was talking about shuttle's PvT being bad is just wrong, that was a sick push break.
100% agreed. DE wasn't in a half-bad position (ok, maybe putting his tanks a little deeper spaced), but Shuttle broke it with like no effort.
but Shuttle's PvT has always been remarkable as far as I can remember.
Shuttle's PvT is by far his best matchup, he can hang with any Terran.
?????
Better than his PvP? I would disagree with you, sir.
He has great mechanics, but he generally seems to attack from poor angles in PvT and make some weird decisions.
Don't be fooled by his stats (not that you were)—the Protosses he's played have been pretty weak players, whereas his Terran opponents have been generally monstrous. Most of Shuttle's "breakout" wins have been against Terrans (upset fOrGG in GOM when fOrGG was actually good, then again one season later, kocked Hwasin out of GOM last season, gave Flash a real run for his money at Bacchus OSL 09).
Also note that right when Shuttle was just beginning to crack PL lineups at STX, he often appeared on Terran playgrounds like Wuthering Heights. STX was playing to his strength there.
On October 21 2009 14:48 Hinanawi wrote: I can't help but feel bad for Shuttle, he looked really upset when he typed out. You can tell he takes it really seriously when he loses.
I doubt it was only about losing alone. It was about being in a great spot, 4 1/2 base against 3, having broken an early timed push, lots of Gateways producing. And then charging into a bunch of tanks and losing his entire army, with DE playing out that advantage superbly. Shuttle had it in his hands and he threw it.
I think STX is basically banking on the fact that they will make the playoffs and that Calm does NOT need extra work to get to S tier (and is in 2 leagues). They're clearly letting him take it easy where he's not absolutely needed and I don't really disagree with this decision. They are in a great position to develop an SKT-like lineup of S- and A-tier players and they're taking the steps to get there fast.
I wonder what Calm thinks of these shenanigans. Does he enjoy not having to prepare for 2 games, or does he wish STX would send him out for the star power? I imagine he'd want to be sent out to prove himself...
On October 21 2009 14:58 UGC4 wrote: LOL hero...what the fuck...did the STX coach not watch by.Hero vs Flash or something? he got so royally fuxed. lets hope the same happens here!!!
i just want to point out that according to this background, these commentators are moving up and down a very fast in an elevator in some odd white city.
Although I don't really feel like I can complain -- my fantasy team is doing pretty well -- calm not being sent out for stx ace matches is pissing me off.
Also, while I'm on the subject of unjustified complaining, I knew I should've picked ruby instead of iris or movie, but I was going to wait until week one was over to make sure he wasn't going to fail. Trading comes around and I can't afford him.
On October 21 2009 15:01 integral wrote: Although I don't really feel like I can complain -- my fantasy team is doing pretty well -- calm not being sent out for stx ace matches is pissing me off.
Also, while I'm on the subject of unjustified complaining, I knew I should've picked ruby instead of iris or movie, but I was going to wait until week one was over to make sure he wasn't going to fail. Trading comes around and I can't afford him.
On October 21 2009 15:01 integral wrote: Although I don't really feel like I can complain -- my fantasy team is doing pretty well -- calm not being sent out for stx ace matches is pissing me off.
Also, while I'm on the subject of unjustified complaining, I knew I should've picked ruby instead of iris or movie, but I was going to wait until week one was over to make sure he wasn't going to fail. Trading comes around and I can't afford him.
On October 21 2009 15:00 Aesop wrote: hero is actually a decent player against Mech I think. So I hope Ruby goes M&M.
Hero's standard ZvT is even sicker from what Ive watched in his series vs Hwasin, the only game he lost was a mech build in medusa iirc.He has a sick Hydra/lurk like Calm/July, which is how STX rolls ZvT + having 450 apm helps at using hydra/lurk
Oh, and what the hell is with all the people saying "lol hero sucks" or something along those lines? Hero has always been solid. Losing 0-3 to Jaedong doesn't really mean you're a scrub TBH. I've always been kinda peeved that people write off hero's run as a fluke. Hero fighting!
On October 21 2009 15:01 integral wrote: Although I don't really feel like I can complain -- my fantasy team is doing pretty well -- calm not being sent out for stx ace matches is pissing me off.
Also, while I'm on the subject of unjustified complaining, I knew I should've picked ruby instead of iris or movie, but I was going to wait until week one was over to make sure he wasn't going to fail. Trading comes around and I can't afford him.
Oh well.
RUBY IN MY FANTASY WOOT!
Since you did that just to spite me, maybe we should compare fantasy ranks.
On October 21 2009 15:03 Carnivorous Sheep wrote: Oh, and what the hell is with all the people saying "lol hero sucks" or something along those lines? Hero has always been solid. Losing 0-3 to Jaedong doesn't really mean you're a scrub TBH. I've always been kinda peeved that people write off hero's run as a fluke. Hero fighting!
2nd
He's a far better choice than Modesty, Frozean, and probably even Hwasin. On a lesser team he would be one of the PL regulars.
On October 21 2009 15:00 Aesop wrote: hero is actually a decent player against Mech I think. So I hope Ruby goes M&M.
Mech is usually what defeats him.
Like that game vs Hwasin on Medusa and also that game vs Canata on ROTK where Canata caught him droning too hard and just attack moved a bunch of goliaths and won.
On October 21 2009 15:03 Carnivorous Sheep wrote: Oh, and what the hell is with all the people saying "lol hero sucks" or something along those lines? Hero has always been solid. Losing 0-3 to Jaedong doesn't really mean you're a scrub TBH. I've always been kinda peeved that people write off hero's run as a fluke. Hero fighting!
2nd
He's a far better choice than Modesty, Frozean, and probably even Hwasin. On a lesser team he would be one of the PL regulars.
hero just isn't good at ZvT, there's no convincing me otherwise - he's achieved absolutely nothing substantial in the matchup to date. RuBy however, is very good at TvZ. It's pretty simple.
On October 21 2009 15:09 JIJIyO wrote: So is Themarine back or something? I swear I read he was going to the army or something a while ago.......Someone care to fill me in? O_O
Wait crap..........is the middle commentator even Themarine? lol I feel dumb.
On October 21 2009 15:03 Carnivorous Sheep wrote: Oh, and what the hell is with all the people saying "lol hero sucks" or something along those lines? Hero has always been solid. Losing 0-3 to Jaedong doesn't really mean you're a scrub TBH. I've always been kinda peeved that people write off hero's run as a fluke. Hero fighting!
2nd
He's a far better choice than Modesty, Frozean, and probably even Hwasin. On a lesser team he would be one of the PL regulars.
hero just isn't good at ZvT, there's no convincing me otherwise - he's achieved absolutely nothing substantial in the matchup to date. RuBy however, is very good at TvZ. It's pretty simple.
Ruby lost to Hero pretty convincingly in Batoo OSL..
On October 21 2009 15:03 Carnivorous Sheep wrote: Oh, and what the hell is with all the people saying "lol hero sucks" or something along those lines? Hero has always been solid. Losing 0-3 to Jaedong doesn't really mean you're a scrub TBH. I've always been kinda peeved that people write off hero's run as a fluke. Hero fighting!
2nd
He's a far better choice than Modesty, Frozean, and probably even Hwasin. On a lesser team he would be one of the PL regulars.
hero just isn't good at ZvT, there's no convincing me otherwise - he's achieved absolutely nothing substantial in the matchup to date. RuBy however, is very good at TvZ. It's pretty simple.
If hero hasn't achieved anything substantial in ZvT, than Ruby hasn't achieved anyting substantial in TvZ either. I don't know what standards you're going by here, Ruby kinda just plays...like your average run of the mill Terran, with the occasional massive turtle fest that would put Flash's old vP style to shame. -coughmslprelimvshoejjacough-
On October 21 2009 15:03 Carnivorous Sheep wrote: Oh, and what the hell is with all the people saying "lol hero sucks" or something along those lines? Hero has always been solid. Losing 0-3 to Jaedong doesn't really mean you're a scrub TBH. I've always been kinda peeved that people write off hero's run as a fluke. Hero fighting!
2nd
He's a far better choice than Modesty, Frozean, and probably even Hwasin. On a lesser team he would be one of the PL regulars.
hero just isn't good at ZvT, there's no convincing me otherwise - he's achieved absolutely nothing substantial in the matchup to date. RuBy however, is very good at TvZ. It's pretty simple.
If hero hasn't achieved anything substantial in ZvT, than Ruby hasn't achieved anyting substantial in TvZ either. I don't know what standards you're going by here, Ruby kinda just plays...like your average run of the mill Terran, with the occasional massive turtle fest that would put Flash's old vP style to shame. -coughmslprelimvshoejjacough-
RuBy's Bio is among the best - these days hero's ZvT consists of a failed mutalisk harass into getting rolled shortly thereafter by the terran. Citing the one mech game RuBy has ever gone is a horrible argument to make.
On October 21 2009 15:18 3clipse wrote: Man, hero's muta micro is just unbelievable.
Every single Zerg can do that nowadays,even relative nonames like Soulkey who did this on this map in the testing, this map is just plain good for 2hat muta.
On October 21 2009 15:18 3clipse wrote: Man, hero's muta micro is just unbelievable.
Every single Zerg can do that nowadays,even relative nonames like Soulkey who did this on this map in the testing, this map is just plain good for 2hat muta.
I've yet to see a zerg besides Jaedong with tighter muta micro on a consistent basis.
On October 21 2009 15:23 Holgerius wrote: This game just makes me even more impressed by Flash's utter domination against hero in MSL. The kid obviously has some muta micro skills.
To be fair to Ruby, there was part where it was +1 armor vs attack less marines? wtf
Well I was wrong in regards to this game (although I'll still stand by my argument for hero, his game lives and dies by the muta harass) - btw LOL at Last's hair, it's worse than Jaehoon!
On October 21 2009 15:18 3clipse wrote: Man, hero's muta micro is just unbelievable.
Every single Zerg can do that nowadays,even relative nonames like Soulkey who did this on this map in the testing, this map is just plain good for 2hat muta.
I've yet to see a zerg besides Jaedong with tighter muta micro on a consistent basis.
On October 21 2009 15:25 p4NDemik wrote: Well I was wrong in regards to this game (although I'll still stand by my argument for hero, his game lives and dies by the muta harass) - btw LOL at Last's hair, it's worse than Jaehoon!
That game wasn't the Muta harass - Ruby did a good job of recovering from the slow Turrets. It was hero's defense of a mass blob of MnM with pure Mutalisks that saved him - and defending MnM with pure Mutalisks is very difficult TBH.
Even Jaedong misses swings with pure Mutalisk against MnM, people need to stop discrediting hero so much :<
On October 21 2009 15:18 3clipse wrote: Man, hero's muta micro is just unbelievable.
Every single Zerg can do that nowadays,even relative nonames like Soulkey who did this on this map in the testing, this map is just plain good for 2hat muta.
I've yet to see a zerg besides Jaedong with tighter muta micro on a consistent basis.
Zero Edit: +the above Yarnc/Luxury when they are in "super awesome im the 2nd best zerg" mode and not "fail" mode. Hell, Yarncs anti turret Muta Micro is even better than Jaedong, I couldnt believe my eyes when I saw that game vs Flash on Athena.
On October 21 2009 15:18 3clipse wrote: Man, hero's muta micro is just unbelievable.
Every single Zerg can do that nowadays,even relative nonames like Soulkey who did this on this map in the testing, this map is just plain good for 2hat muta.
I've yet to see a zerg besides Jaedong with tighter muta micro on a consistent basis.
You need to watch the twins moar.
I have Yarnc on my fantasy PL actually, but he's letting me down. :/
On October 21 2009 15:18 3clipse wrote: Man, hero's muta micro is just unbelievable.
Every single Zerg can do that nowadays,even relative nonames like Soulkey who did this on this map in the testing, this map is just plain good for 2hat muta.
I've yet to see a zerg besides Jaedong with tighter muta micro on a consistent basis.
You need to watch the twins moar.
I have Yarnc on my fantasy PL actually, but he's letting me down. :/
Lol me too.
Zero's Mutalisk control has nothing on this WTF lol.
On October 21 2009 15:18 3clipse wrote: Man, hero's muta micro is just unbelievable.
Every single Zerg can do that nowadays,even relative nonames like Soulkey who did this on this map in the testing, this map is just plain good for 2hat muta.
I've yet to see a zerg besides Jaedong with tighter muta micro on a consistent basis.
You need to watch the twins moar.
I have Yarnc on my fantasy PL actually, but he's letting me down. :/
Not due to muta micro, though. It's still kick ass.
On October 21 2009 15:25 p4NDemik wrote: Well I was wrong in regards to this game (although I'll still stand by my argument for hero, his game lives and dies by the muta harass) - btw LOL at Last's hair, it's worse than Jaehoon!
That game wasn't the Muta harass - Ruby did a good job of recovering from the slow Turrets. It was hero's defense of a mass blob of MnM with pure Mutalisks that saved him - and defending MnM with pure Mutalisks is very difficult TBH.
Even Jaedong misses swings with pure Mutalisk against MnM, people need to stop discrediting hero so much :<
But, as people have said, hero took a lot of unnecessary fire from the rines. His mutas survived, but not solely or even mostly because of micro.
Edit: Yeah, everyone misses some. Just saying he was sitting there getting shot a lot and nothing was dying.
On October 21 2009 15:29 Pyrthas wrote: But, as people have said, hero took a lot of unnecessary fire from the rines. His mutas survived, but not solely or even mostly because of micro.
Hero took so many hits because he was being so damn aggressive with them. Most zergs just swoop in intermittently, giving the mutas time to heal and the terran a chance to have his attention focused elsewhere. Hero was absolutely relentless and did loads of damage. His casualties were understandable and well justified.
On October 21 2009 15:25 p4NDemik wrote: Well I was wrong in regards to this game (although I'll still stand by my argument for hero, his game lives and dies by the muta harass) - btw LOL at Last's hair, it's worse than Jaehoon!
That game wasn't the Muta harass - Ruby did a good job of recovering from the slow Turrets. It was hero's defense of a mass blob of MnM with pure Mutalisks that saved him - and defending MnM with pure Mutalisks is very difficult TBH.
Even Jaedong misses swings with pure Mutalisk against MnM, people need to stop discrediting hero so much :<
But, as people have said, hero took a lot of unnecessary fire from the rines. His mutas survived, but not because of micro.
The +1 definitely helped, but a lesser Zerg would've died regardless of the +1. There's a reason you don't see much pure Mutalisk vs. MnM - it's ridiculously difficult, since one miss means you get completely raped. There was no unnecessary fire, because so far no one has good enough Mutalisk micro to avoid all that fire. You kinda just have to go in, and accept the fact that you will take fire because you're not gonna be able to do a perfect hit every time - you just have to make sure it happens most of the time, which is still very difficult. I maintain that hero's Mutalisk micro is exceptional.
On October 21 2009 15:28 MuffinDude wrote: Haha, skt, cj, hite, and khan all ranked in lower half.
Yeah, the start of this season is amazing IMO. It's really cool to see Ace, Estro and Wemade putting up a fight instead of being autowin for the big teams.
On October 21 2009 15:18 3clipse wrote: Man, hero's muta micro is just unbelievable.
Every single Zerg can do that nowadays,even relative nonames like Soulkey who did this on this map in the testing, this map is just plain good for 2hat muta.
I've yet to see a zerg besides Jaedong with tighter muta micro on a consistent basis.
You need to watch the twins moar.
I have Yarnc on my fantasy PL actually, but he's letting me down. :/
So down indeed.. I had hopes for him. Glad that STX and Calm won though, I started feeling depressed already.
On October 21 2009 15:25 p4NDemik wrote: Well I was wrong in regards to this game (although I'll still stand by my argument for hero, his game lives and dies by the muta harass) - btw LOL at Last's hair, it's worse than Jaehoon!
That game wasn't the Muta harass - Ruby did a good job of recovering from the slow Turrets. It was hero's defense of a mass blob of MnM with pure Mutalisks that saved him - and defending MnM with pure Mutalisks is very difficult TBH.
Even Jaedong misses swings with pure Mutalisk against MnM, people need to stop discrediting hero so much :<
Even if he wasn't harassing RuBy's economy at all he still predicated that entire game on harassing RuBy's army and keeping it at bay while he teched up. I'll admit it was sick control by hero, but that is really all he has (and these days it doesn't really make you stand out among the masses of zergs - most of which have exemplary muta control). Back in the days of Blue Storm Jaedong built his reputation on this style of play, but nowadays it isn't enough to get zergs wins regularly against top terrans. hero is a one trick pony in ZvT, and he'll need to get better elsewhere in the matchup before he's a real threat imo.
I maintain that hero is just lacking in experience vT. He tends to panic whenever something deviates from plan, and doesn't adapt well enough. I'm pretty sure I said this before, but hero's biggest fault is probably his reliance on everything going according to plan. TBH the more exposure he gets, the better he'll become. This is one of the reasons I really like STX - they aren't afraid to put up newer players in high pressure situations to help them develop (they played Last and Bogus a lot last season to develop them, and also Modesty). True, it might suck for those of us who have Calm on our fantasy (he's still top player though, so :D) at times, but this means that STX will always be a strong team. It's just a very good environment for newer players, and I think hero is really benefiting from this. hero traditionally hasn't done exceptionally in high pressure situations, and another team probably would've shied away from sending him out for ace, but I think that this is really helping him. I totally think hero's gonna be the next big thing to come out of STX.
I like how by.hero wins and people respond by constructing large blocks of texts of how his ZvT isn't good enough, or that he's still a "one trick pony," a term that should only be reserved for Leta's TvZ.
I think from now on, every time someone wins an ace match, we should all write about how bad they are...
On October 21 2009 15:18 3clipse wrote: Man, hero's muta micro is just unbelievable.
Every single Zerg can do that nowadays,even relative nonames like Soulkey who did this on this map in the testing, this map is just plain good for 2hat muta.
I've yet to see a zerg besides Jaedong with tighter muta micro on a consistent basis.
On October 21 2009 15:21 SplashbackFerret wrote: should've optic flared the overlord
cutest idea ever haha
imagine ruby researching it before hand as a back up plan for his 4 rax late tech build blinded the overlord and killed the guards with his cloaked wraiths.
EPT![[image loading]](http://www.teamliquid.net/staff/keit/Proleague0910.jpg)
![[image loading]](http://img16.imageshack.us/img16/4088/lineupsx.jpg)
Calm < Outsider SE > 
Hwasin < Moon Glaive > 
Kal < Heartbreak Ridge > ![[image loading]](http://img19.imageshack.us/img19/2192/resultss.jpg)
![[image loading]](http://img195.imageshack.us/img195/7209/recommendedgames.jpg)
![[image loading]](http://img39.imageshack.us/img39/6235/howtowatch.jpg)
lololol
