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[R&S] EVER 2009 OSL - Page 7

Forum Index > Brood War Tournaments
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ptz
Profile Joined January 2005
Romania251 Posts
December 11 2009 14:45 GMT
#121
are the dates for the games known yet ?
micromegas
Profile Joined November 2008
Denmark171 Posts
December 11 2009 14:45 GMT
#122
On December 11 2009 23:17 mmgoose wrote:
Oh man, can you imagine Jaedong winning an OSL with a run of Flash, Calm, Stork? EPIC


Were that to happen, I sincerely believe that the world would implode. He'll then have proven himself the best ever, I should say.
We need help, the poet reckoned.
TwoToneTerran
Profile Joined March 2009
United States8841 Posts
Last Edited: 2009-12-11 14:51:34
December 11 2009 14:51 GMT
#123
I just want Flash to win an OSL by beating JAEDONG Calm and Stork. That'd be the only OSL run ever to rival his Jaedong/Bisu/Stork and Savior's Iris/Nada run.

God I want a Flash vs Stork Finals rematch. It'd make me so happy. :3
Remember Violet.
Mogwai
Profile Blog Joined January 2009
United States13274 Posts
December 11 2009 14:55 GMT
#124
uhg, the match eveyone wants happens first round...

I guess it's nice that we're guaranteed a Flash vs. Jaedong showdown, but I would've preferred it to happen in the finals :p
mogwaismusings.wordpress.com
Rostam
Profile Blog Joined December 2008
United States2552 Posts
December 11 2009 15:58 GMT
#125
On December 11 2009 23:17 mmgoose wrote:
maps are sooo stacked against jd not to mention up against a bonjwa level FvZ.

if jaedong wins this series and goes on to snatch another osl then it's bonjwa time.


How are the maps stacked against Jaedong? There's a reason there's only 1 Terran in this ro8, and it's not a magical simultaneous slump hitting every other T player.
BW forever || Thall
Skeggaba
Profile Blog Joined April 2009
Korea (South)1556 Posts
December 11 2009 16:08 GMT
#126
Wow what great matches! JD v. Flash right of, and lotsa lotsa ZvP (which is the most fun MU to watch in my opinon) !
Bisu[about JD]=I was scared (laughs). The force emanating from his facial expression was so manly that I was even a little jealous.
micromegas
Profile Joined November 2008
Denmark171 Posts
December 11 2009 18:53 GMT
#127
On December 11 2009 23:17 mmgoose wrote:
maps are sooo stacked against jd not to mention up against a bonjwa level FvZ.

if jaedong wins this series and goes on to snatch another osl then it's bonjwa time.


Fighting Spirit:
TvZ: 6-4 (60%)

Neo Heartbreak Ridge:
TvZ: 1-0 (100%)

Eye of the Storm:
TvZ: 4-7 (36.4%)

How is this imbalanced? Too few games by far have been played on these maps to base an opinion on these numbers. Besides, S-class players often seem to transcend map imbalances purely because they're so awesome.

We need help, the poet reckoned.
Hinanawi
Profile Blog Joined July 2009
United States2250 Posts
December 11 2009 19:33 GMT
#128
Fighting Spirit

Pretty much the defintion of balanced. 6-4 spread, and the number of TvT and ZvZ matches is even (showing that both Ts and Zs are about equally confident on the map)

Heartbreak Ridge

Neo HBR is too new to draw meaningful stats, but looking at the old one we see 25-23, with more than two times as many ZvZs as TvTs.

Eye of the Storm

Still a small sample size to draw any meaningful data from, but Z is ahead 4-7 in TvZ on this map so far.

The first two maps are very even, and the third might have a slight Z advantage. Saying that JD has map disadvantage is just stupid.
Favorite progamers (in order): Flash, Stork, Violet, Sea. ||| Get better soon, Violet!
Jenia6109
Profile Blog Joined December 2008
Russian Federation1613 Posts
December 11 2009 19:38 GMT
#129
So so so so so so sick brackets. 1 TvZ (JvF) and 3 PvZ with every Protoss playing strong PvZ. It should be awesome!!
INnoVation TY Maru | Classic Stats Dear sOs Zest herO | Rogue Dark soO
TwoToneTerran
Profile Joined March 2009
United States8841 Posts
December 11 2009 19:40 GMT
#130
I'm amused that the Ro4 has potential to be all ZvZ with these draws.
Remember Violet.
.risingdragoon
Profile Joined January 2008
United States3021 Posts
December 11 2009 20:27 GMT
#131
wow the tiebreaker saved us from 2 mirrors :D
......::::........::::........::::........::::........::::.......::::.......::::... Up☆MaGiC ...::::.......::::.......::::........::::........::::........::::........
pripple
Profile Blog Joined May 2009
Finland1714 Posts
December 11 2009 20:41 GMT
#132
ahh damn i would've have prefered a BO5 between JD & Flash at the finals ;<
well this should do, too bad Flash's neat little TvZ streak ends here, expecting good games!
Jaedong! <> Team MVP <> Mouz.
Crunchums
Profile Blog Joined December 2008
United States11144 Posts
December 11 2009 21:03 GMT
#133
(from here)
Did you want to play Jaedong in the ace match?
▲ I wanted to at some point. However, I don’t know why but I think we’ll face each other a lot from now. I’m just happy that we won 3-0 today.

eesh, he wasn't kidding
brood war for life, brood war forever
Crunchums
Profile Blog Joined December 2008
United States11144 Posts
Last Edited: 2009-12-11 21:48:52
December 11 2009 21:31 GMT
#134
On December 12 2009 04:33 Hinanawi wrote:
Fighting Spirit
Pretty much the defintion of balanced. 6-4 spread, and the number of TvT and ZvZ matches is even (showing that both Ts and Zs are about equally confident on the map)

The best number for evaluating confidence is purely race choices from proleague (which is imperfect for various reasons), which shows 39T 32Z 33P. Jaedong is 1-0 vs T (beat Canata) and Flash is 2-0 vs Z (Savior, Kwanro). So this map is basically a wash.
Heartbreak Ridge

Neo HBR is too new to draw meaningful stats, but looking at the old one we see 25-23, with more than two times as many ZvZs as TvTs.

Neo HBR isn't different enough from HBR that we'll see a noticeable shift in balance. The numbers for HBR were 8T/56Z/28P which are ridiculous - clearly this is not a terran map and very much a zerg map. But Jaedong is 1-3 vs T (beat Leta, two losses to fantasy and one to Canata) whereas Flash is 3-2 vs actual zerg progamers (beat hero, july, hoejja, lost to yarnc and effort). I wouldn't put too much stock into those numbers; this map clearly favors zerg.

My opinion is that when you have two players at such a high level the map balance is pretty irrelevant as long as it's not ridiculously imbalanced. So maybe Jaedong has a tiny advantage on HBR but I wouldn't consider it significant. Jaedong hasn't really had a strong referendum on his ZvT in a while whereas Flash is on fire TvZ, so this series is really all about how good Jaedong's ZvT is in my mind.
brood war for life, brood war forever
knyttym
Profile Blog Joined December 2006
United States5797 Posts
December 11 2009 21:57 GMT
#135
Please Pure make the Finals for this OSL. I know you are capable of it
Heyoka
Profile Blog Joined March 2008
Katowice25012 Posts
Last Edited: 2009-12-11 22:20:50
December 11 2009 22:06 GMT
#136
On December 11 2009 23:45 ptz wrote:
are the dates for the games known yet ?


Yes! I have it all updated now with ro8.

(12/18 and 12/25 - bo3s split up into two days)
@RealHeyoka | ESL / DreamHack StarCraft Lead
ZooG
Profile Joined January 2008
Sweden618 Posts
December 11 2009 22:15 GMT
#137
11? shouldnt be 12 or im I just stupid?
"Rain, also a name for a meteorological condition" -Artosis
Heyoka
Profile Blog Joined March 2008
Katowice25012 Posts
December 11 2009 22:20 GMT
#138
oh good call
@RealHeyoka | ESL / DreamHack StarCraft Lead
Avidkeystamper
Profile Blog Joined June 2008
United States8556 Posts
December 11 2009 22:25 GMT
#139
On December 12 2009 06:31 Crunchums wrote:
Show nested quote +
On December 12 2009 04:33 Hinanawi wrote:
Fighting Spirit
Pretty much the defintion of balanced. 6-4 spread, and the number of TvT and ZvZ matches is even (showing that both Ts and Zs are about equally confident on the map)

The best number for evaluating confidence is purely race choices from proleague (which is imperfect for various reasons), which shows 39T 32Z 33P. Jaedong is 1-0 vs T (beat Canata) and Flash is 2-0 vs Z (Savior, Kwanro). So this map is basically a wash.
Show nested quote +
Heartbreak Ridge

Neo HBR is too new to draw meaningful stats, but looking at the old one we see 25-23, with more than two times as many ZvZs as TvTs.

Neo HBR isn't different enough from HBR that we'll see a noticeable shift in balance. The numbers for HBR were 8T/56Z/28P which are ridiculous - clearly this is not a terran map and very much a zerg map. But Jaedong is 1-3 vs T (beat Leta, two losses to fantasy and one to Canata) whereas Flash is 3-2 vs actual zerg progamers (beat hero, july, hoejja, lost to yarnc and effort). I wouldn't put too much stock into those numbers; this map clearly favors zerg.

My opinion is that when you have two players at such a high level the map balance is pretty irrelevant as long as it's not ridiculously imbalanced. So maybe Jaedong has a tiny advantage on HBR but I wouldn't consider it significant. Jaedong hasn't really had a strong referendum on his ZvT in a while whereas Flash is on fire TvZ, so this series is really all about how good Jaedong's ZvT is in my mind.

Actually the dearth of terrans on Heartbreak Ridge is from the PvT imbalanace.
They're all equal, but if you had to scream imba, I'd go for a Zerg slant on the last map and a Terran slant for the first.
Jaedong
sushiman
Profile Joined September 2003
Sweden2691 Posts
December 11 2009 22:31 GMT
#140
Ouch, seems like the toss-players will have a rough time in the RO8. :/
Hopefully there won't be another ZvZ final again.
1000 at least.
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