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[Guide] 2 hatch builds in ZvT - Page 2

Forum Index > Brood War Strategy
Post a Reply
Prev 1 2 3 Next All
YPang
Profile Blog Joined April 2007
United States4024 Posts
Last Edited: 2009-06-02 16:18:48
June 02 2009 16:15 GMT
#21
most foreign zerg's muta micro suck too much to make it effective anyways. I've RARELY Lost any TvZ when zerg's go 2hatch, onlytime i remember is when the zerg was B... and im a C+/b- player myself, i prob woulda lost easy if he played macro style. so its pretty rare for zergs to really micro those flyers effectively...

and yes you're prob right, my late game tvz does suck .... 4k macro ftw.

but neverthelss they'll never get good at it iff they dont try...
sMi.Gladstone | BW: B high| SC2: gold T_T
Incognitodies
Profile Joined April 2008
United Kingdom184 Posts
June 02 2009 16:40 GMT
#22
Great guide. I have to say this was exactly what I was looking for having started to experiment with 2 hatch but not really sure how to transition out of mutalisks. Muta micro is fun =)

On June 02 2009 22:35 APurpleCow wrote:
He did it vs Iris.

http://www.teamliquid.net/tlpd/games/11572_Iris_vs_Jaedong/vod

That wasn't vs mech so it's not really the same
Archaic
Profile Blog Joined March 2008
United States4024 Posts
June 02 2009 16:43 GMT
#23
On June 02 2009 18:52 Perguvious wrote:
+ Show Spoiler +
Yeah, same here. It looks like you put a lot of (Z)EffOrt into this guide. Thanks!
+ Show Spoiler +
But not exactly. I would have thought there might have been at least one VOD with (Z)EffOrt



I see what you did there.

Haha, nice. I love how the beta key competition is essentially just milking the community for great guides like this.
uglymoose89
Profile Blog Joined November 2008
United States671 Posts
June 02 2009 16:45 GMT
#24
wow thanks for the guide, this is gonna help my zerg so much!
GHOSTCLAW
Profile Blog Joined February 2008
United States17042 Posts
June 02 2009 17:07 GMT
#25
On June 03 2009 01:43 Archaic wrote:
Show nested quote +
On June 02 2009 18:52 Perguvious wrote:
+ Show Spoiler +
Yeah, same here. It looks like you put a lot of (Z)EffOrt into this guide. Thanks!
+ Show Spoiler +
But not exactly. I would have thought there might have been at least one VOD with (Z)EffOrt



I see what you did there.

Haha, nice. I love how the beta key competition is essentially just milking the community for great guides like this.


It's a good thing for the community overall though.
PhotographerLiquipedia. Drop me a pm if you've got questions/need help.
JJH
Profile Joined December 2008
Canada42 Posts
Last Edited: 2009-06-02 17:53:04
June 02 2009 17:52 GMT
#26
this is one sexy guide!
thank you!
Klive5ive
Profile Blog Joined January 2008
United Kingdom6056 Posts
June 02 2009 17:53 GMT
#27
Wow, that guide is incredible.
I'm going to really enjoy trying all that on ICCUP.

Enjoy your Beta key dude!
Don't hate the player - Hate the game
Harem
Profile Joined November 2007
United States11390 Posts
June 02 2009 17:53 GMT
#28
On June 02 2009 13:00 Monkeyz_Rule wrote:
Show nested quote +
On June 02 2009 11:34 Ilikestarcraft wrote:
for 2.5 hatch 14 pool is a typo right?


Nope. Since you only do the build if you scout your opponent early you already know he isn't doing 8 rax or something so your pool timing doesn't really matter. Everything other than my rep gets their pool between 11 and 13 supply and then makes drones afterwards, but I don't think it matters at all unless you are afraid of an scv rush.

Show nested quote +
Yeah, same here. It looks like you put a lot of (Z)EffOrt into this guide. Thanks!
+ Show Spoiler +
But not exactly. I would have thought there might have been at least one VOD with EffOrt


Ya, unfortunately effort is one of the few progamers that still goes 3 hatch pretty much every game.

Effort goes 2hatch a few times vs Mind in GOM. ;o

Also, amazing guide. <3
Moderator。◕‿◕。
Zapdos_Smithh
Profile Blog Joined October 2008
Canada2620 Posts
June 02 2009 20:06 GMT
#29
ty ty ty ty
Chill
Profile Blog Joined January 2005
Calgary25977 Posts
June 02 2009 20:56 GMT
#30
Really nice guide. Can I suggest you add the Kwanro build, since it's another 2 Hatch option and is quite valuable in a lot of cases.

It's 12/11/10 lair ling speed like normal, but instead of drones, you make lings until 18 and attack with 12 zerglings right when speed finishes.
Moderator
Harem
Profile Joined November 2007
United States11390 Posts
June 02 2009 21:37 GMT
#31
On June 03 2009 05:56 Chill wrote:
Really nice guide. Can I suggest you add the Kwanro build, since it's another 2 Hatch option and is quite valuable in a lot of cases.

It's 12/11/10 lair ling speed like normal, but instead of drones, you make lings until 18 and attack with 12 zerglings right when speed finishes.

Don't you usually get ling speed before lair when you do kwanro build?
Moderator。◕‿◕。
Chill
Profile Blog Joined January 2005
Calgary25977 Posts
June 02 2009 21:47 GMT
#32
I'm not sure actually! I usually find Zergling speed finishes when my 12 Zerglings are moving to his base anyways. So because of that I usually go Lair first. I have no idea about the actual build.
Moderator
Neon_Monkey
Profile Joined February 2008
United States270 Posts
Last Edited: 2009-06-02 23:23:06
June 02 2009 22:54 GMT
#33
On June 03 2009 05:56 Chill wrote:
Really nice guide. Can I suggest you add the Kwanro build, since it's another 2 Hatch option and is quite valuable in a lot of cases.

It's 12/11/10 lair ling speed like normal, but instead of drones, you make lings until 18 and attack with 12 zerglings right when speed finishes.


Yea its a pretty well knowm build but it always seemed pretty all-in to me and requires good muta micro because when your mutas pop you pretty much have only enough econ to continue pumping mutas from your 2 hatches. If there are good ways to follow them up other than killing him with mutalisks I have absolutely no idea. Everything I know about the subject is pretty much covered by your post. Except that I thought the opening with it was usually 12 gas 11 pool so you could get both lair and speed right as your pool finished.

On June 02 2009 22:35 APurpleCow wrote:
Great guide and should help a lot of people, me included.

There's just one thing I think you should add - overlord scouting. What should I do with my overlord (that is, should I send it to his main to see everything, leaving my overlord vulnerable to marines, or should I just go to the safe spot?), and how should I read the Terran with what I scout?


I just stick the overlord at a safe spot near his nat and judge everything by his expo timing. Even if he walled in and made his CC in his main with a 1 rax expo build the CC will be floated to his nat about the time a hydra den would start vs a mech build so you can just cancel it and continue as if it were vs bio.

Also, is there an easy way to quote more than 1 person for a single post?
Klive5ive
Profile Blog Joined January 2008
United Kingdom6056 Posts
June 02 2009 23:19 GMT
#34
On June 03 2009 07:54 Monkeyz_Rule wrote:
Also, is there an easy way to quote more than 1 person for a single post?

Tabbed browsing :p
In Firefox; say I wanted to reply to you and Chill. I middle mouse click quote on Chill to open that in a new tab, then I click quote on you.
Then I would just copy-paste the text from one tab into the other where I wanted it.
Don't hate the player - Hate the game
sprawlers
Profile Joined June 2007
Norway439 Posts
Last Edited: 2009-06-05 12:38:26
June 05 2009 12:37 GMT
#35
I've been trying this out and really like it, even though it gets me into defiler lategame, which I'm pretty bad at.
I find that I have difficulty against bunker rushes when using your standard opening as I almost never get to scout him in time (python) then have no larvae when he actually hits me. do you always dronescout at 9 on 4player maps or do you just save larvae instead of droning to 14 then sunken and build drones if he hasnt attacked before your natural is up? I found a terran that bunkerrushed eith 10 scvs every game and tried to play it out as if I had no idea he might be bunker rushing, and in those games he beat me or crippled me enough to end it before I got to lairtech every single time.
Neon_Monkey
Profile Joined February 2008
United States270 Posts
Last Edited: 2009-06-05 23:38:08
June 05 2009 23:34 GMT
#36
On June 05 2009 21:37 lingallin wrote:
I've been trying this out and really like it, even though it gets me into defiler lategame, which I'm pretty bad at.
I find that I have difficulty against bunker rushes when using your standard opening as I almost never get to scout him in time (python) then have no larvae when he actually hits me. do you always dronescout at 9 on 4player maps or do you just save larvae instead of droning to 14 then sunken and build drones if he hasnt attacked before your natural is up? I found a terran that bunkerrushed eith 10 scvs every game and tried to play it out as if I had no idea he might be bunker rushing, and in those games he beat me or crippled me enough to end it before I got to lairtech every single time.


Any form of bunker rush is usually held off with drones. If you wait for lings then he probably has like 3-4 scvs and a bunker up at your nat already. You can always save your 3 larvae and make 6 lings if you want, it doesn't really matter since you are going to make 6 lings anyways. Even if you don't you can still make 4 lings since your 2nd hatch will finish about the same time as your pool. For an scv rush obviously you should just start making a sunken as soon as he moves out. I also don't know if you mean 2 rax scv rush or 1 rax or 8 rax or what...

But I have gone 6-10 this week at D and D+ on python mostly due to rushes like 2 rax scv or 8/9 gate on close positions and bbs so honestly I just suggest playing on a different map, because after playing hundreds of games on that map when I was first learning I am still unable to hold off this crap consistantley with such short rush distances. But I have also played enough on it to at least know that if you 12 drone scout him and are cross positions then if he goes 8 rax you will see him scouting the nat of the base your drone scouted first and the one your overlord scouted first at about the same time. But on the bright side if they spawn cross positions it should be an easy win for you but that just never seems to happen when you want it to.

Also, you can't kill anything with swarm due to the wide open middle and its really hard to defend against drops without a ton of lings around the map so I would suggest 3 hatching on python anyways.
ulszz
Profile Blog Joined June 2007
Jamaica1787 Posts
June 06 2009 08:21 GMT
#37
awesome guide. just what i needed! getting back in to the sc
everliving, everfaithful, eversure
sprawlers
Profile Joined June 2007
Norway439 Posts
June 06 2009 10:45 GMT
#38
generally just double barracks with scv train, not bbs. I just thought your standard build didn't include dronescouting at 12 and without it I cant save larvae, cause i don't know that its coming before he is almost at my nat.
Geo.Rion
Profile Blog Joined October 2008
7377 Posts
June 06 2009 11:50 GMT
#39
after my exams when i will start to play sc again (hopefully) i will read this, looks awesome, thanks
"Protoss is a joke" Liquid`Jinro Okt.1. 2011
fishyjoes
Profile Blog Joined October 2007
Germany644 Posts
June 14 2009 11:46 GMT
#40
Wow, thanks a lot this Guide seams awesome. "Seams" but I only read few parts of it. But I will definitely read the whole thing. Because I like 2hat builds a lot but most the time I just go 2hat muta into 3gas mass muta when I want to do some Muta Mirco.
infinite fun: http://dagobah.biz/flash/loituma.swf
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