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United States4991 Posts
On April 16 2009 07:57 EscPlan9 wrote:
Man those replays are boring to watch after like 5 mins into them. I'm sure they're much more fun to play at least! Otherwise you're just watching low tech unit micro battles for 10 minutes, then eventually someone techs and it's back to the constant battles over and over again. About 30 minutes of "clank clank, pow pow, ahh!!"
Yeah the PZ vs PP was really boring because they just turtled  Others mostly have more action throughout game.
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On April 16 2009 07:57 EscPlan9 wrote:
Man those replays are boring to watch after like 5 mins into them. I'm sure they're much more fun to play at least! Otherwise you're just watching low tech unit micro battles for 10 minutes, then eventually someone techs and it's back to the constant battles over and over again. About 30 minutes of "clank clank, pow pow, ahh!!"
Well this kind of reminds me of people who complain about macro 1v1 games. I really fail to see how the TP vs PP game was "boring," but to each their own. I'm only care cause I'm in it, probably.
I mean, I guess for you Hunter replays are boring too or do you like that kind of micro (I'm talking about like CKBTV).
Also, I do agree the PZ vs PP is boring but Z is so terrible on the map I liked the game just cause we managed to come back from a disadvantageous position.
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I didn't even see that one... I was specifically referring to the ones that were constant action. I found that to be the downfall because of how repetitive it was. I much prefer the non-bgh/hunters games where there will always be times when both are macroing, teching, expanding, trying to secure expos and all that. Not to mention that in the non-money games, even a minor harassment such as a vulture raid that takes out 3-4 drones can have a significant impact on the outcome of the game. That obviously isn't the case with BGH, so I guess I shouldn't expect anything like it.
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Watching low tech micro battles rarely amazes me or excites me. Playing in them, obviously, would be a lot more fun though. That's mostly what I'm saying. No need to take it personally.
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nvm I don't really feel like a bunch of people telling me to calm down when I'm not mad and not take it personally when I'm already not taking it personally, then have to keep saying I'm not mad and not taking it personally over and over
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On April 16 2009 05:33 Sonu wrote:
BGh is the only fastest map ill ever play on. gl with guide (btw it looks very VERY detailed already)
BGH is a money map.
Fastest maps have stacked minerals.
Is there a channel for BGH or hunters in abyss.
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lol this should increase the power of the pub xD
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can somebody explain
Zerg is weak on BGH due to the limitation of larvae: Zerg can't keep up economically while still having an army; either they are forced to not have an army (in which case the game is lost), or else they don't have much of an economy and lose relevance as the game goes on.
-limitation of larvae.. meaning zerg cant produce fast enough?(cant this be fix by more hatchery?)
-cant keep up economy ???
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T.O.P.
Hong Kong4685 Posts
On April 16 2009 13:35 artofmagic wrote:can somebody explain Show nested quote +Zerg is weak on BGH due to the limitation of larvae: Zerg can't keep up economically while still having an army; either they are forced to not have an army (in which case the game is lost), or else they don't have much of an economy and lose relevance as the game goes on. -limitation of larvae.. meaning zerg cant produce fast enough?(cant this be fix by more hatchery?) -cant keep up economy ???
Zerg could either make drones or make zerglings. Protoss and Terran can do both at the same time. Zerg could make additional hatcheries, but 300 minerals costs a lot for a unit production building.
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On April 16 2009 13:35 artofmagic wrote:can somebody explain Show nested quote +Zerg is weak on BGH due to the limitation of larvae: Zerg can't keep up economically while still having an army; either they are forced to not have an army (in which case the game is lost), or else they don't have much of an economy and lose relevance as the game goes on. -limitation of larvae.. meaning zerg cant produce fast enough?(cant this be fix by more hatchery?) -cant keep up economy ???
No. It's because of the number of minerals. Terran and protoss can continue making workers and receive a LOT more money and saturation than they would on a low money map or hunters. 15 mineral patches = a ton of money for toss and terran. Normally, say, you have 9 drones on low money, that's 1 drone on each patch. On BGH, it's 9/15. On BGH, once T or P has more than 8 miners, they're already getting more money than comparative time on low money. Zerg isn't, if they 9 pooled. The economic imbalance builds up enormously over time. You might ask if it's possible to just 12h and make pure drones and keep up that way. Yes, it is possible to keep up in workers, but then your tech and units will be wayyy behind and you will have no defense either. The economy problem is insurmountable. Zerg is only strong early game with good 9p micro and late game when they have enough drones to equal the P or T economy. Imagine going 9p, and by the 9 minute mark you're still making lings, you have maybe 10, 11 drones. The P has 40 probes mining, and he's still not entirely saturated, plus he can expo and saturate those 10 patches at nat easily. He can produce far more zealots than normal by around the 3-4 minute mark when he starts getting more money than on low money (i.e. 10+ probes) and can then afford say 6 gate zealot when on low money 3 gate would still be economically demanding. At that point, your lings no longer match him as they would in low money. Zerg falls off exponentially as the game progresses.
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yep, which is why I think normal Hunters is better overall.
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United States4991 Posts
I'm on as GandalfTheGay playing on east with Zelniq.
Shoot me a /w if you want to play.
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I have Frodo
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CA10832 Posts
it was fun playing w/ you guys tonight!
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United States4991 Posts
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Pretty cool thread, I got into 3v3 BGH about 10 years ago and it's still surprising how one can get a game now. I remember making so many friends from the US and Canada for years through playing BGH seriously.
Oh man the nostalgia. The public game qualities of BGH seems to be pretty bad nowdays though in USEast especially.
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I recommend not to ever play public games in east or west for BGH. There are 3 Main reasons for this.
#1 Most pubs have no Idea how to play and will just make BGH seem boring.
#2 There will be a 80% chance you will have a lagger in each public game you join.
#3 Hackers while I never really cared to vs them but most will disc hack you once have the advanage.
So for anyone who would like to play BGH I would recommend do 2v2 BGH inners. Get a partner and go to )V( in east and spam 2v2 BGH team Msg. For the lower skilled try to join a 3v3 BGH inner game I usally do those myself. Or if you don't have a partner just go to the channel and say any inners going? If no one responds and if you have the time just do other things and go back to the comp every 5 mins and ask. Because I would never play a public game again since I don't like to waste the little time I have for gaming.
Huascar
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thanks to your strategical advices i managed to win in a 3on3 on hunters keeping all of your tips in mind, was amazing how much easier it felt for me to play that game compared to those before reading the thread.
your advices seem so simple and logic, yet i always tended to get consumed by tactical action (micro) and logistics(macro), so that i lost my thoughts microing/macroing and didnt pay attention to reforming my strategically thoughts in mind (im a rather bad zerg-player and tend to get consumed by playing VERY stressfully/at a fast pace, so that might explain what happened before), but thanks to this post i kept reminding myself what the situational goal was and not trying to force a fast victory which then often leads to irreversible doom.
btw here is the replay (dont know whether it would contribute to the thread or not since it is hunters and i cannot claim the players to be gosu, posting anyways)
im forever.noob in this rep
thx again, keep up the good work
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holy crap. that is a long read. i have an idea. how about drop reavers in the "holes" where tanks normally go, and let the reaver hug the minerals. if done correctly, the scarab could jump over the minerals.
i may be being a newb, though. the scarabs jumping over minerals trick may only work in certain directions
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Really sick guide Peter/everyone else that contributed.
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EPT
