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Ok, so in this game I went for a standard 12 Hatch, but he bunker rushed me.
So I was wondering what do you do when you 12 Hatch, and he bunker rushes?
I cancelled my Hatchary, was that good or bad?
The rest of the game I was playing off 1 base, untill I researched drop, but because he kept me in my base, I didn't have the gas to perform any decent attacks.
I tried harrasing him with mutas, but that failed.
So I'd like to see what I did wrong in the early game. And how I could improve next time I bunker get rushed.
And if I do get bunker rushed, what can I do to stop it?
Here's the replay:
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Canceling your hatchery is like an instant loss for you. The whole point of the 12 hatch is to get the expansion early lol. You should pull drones and defend with those, trying to target the marines or the scv that is making the bunker, until your zerglings come. Never cancel the hatchery...jesus christ lol. You can always counter with zerglings his base if you cannot destroy the bunk somehow (let's say you micro'd poorly and he brought quite a few scvs), and then stay on one base and just pump zerglings and hope that you destroy his base with the counter. Then all you need to do is survive the attack on your base and you win.
Didn't watch the replay btw, canceling the hatchery is all the info needed heh. Also, 1 base zerg is really bad for later tech units (and 1 base zerg is really bad in general unless you are trying some sort of early game cheese rush or something), especially since zerg is a very gas-hungry race so you need to defend that expo @ all costs.
If you aren't comfortable with defending a bunker rush, I suggest you 9 pool instead.
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On April 01 2009 16:02 Resonance wrote:
Canceling your hatchery is like an instant loss for you. The whole point of the 12 hatch is to get the expansion early lol. You should pull drones and defend with those, trying to target the marines or the scv that is making the bunker, until your zerglings come. Never cancel the hatchery...jesus christ lol. You can always counter with zerglings his base if you cannot destroy the bunk somehow (let's say you micro'd poorly and he brought quite a few scvs), and then stay on one base and just pump zerglings and hope that you destroy his base with the counter. Then all you need to do is survive the attack on your base and you win.
Didn't watch the replay btw, canceling the hatchery is all the info needed heh. Also, 1 base zerg is really bad for later tech units (and 1 base zerg is really bad in general unless you are trying some sort of early game cheese rush or something), especially since zerg is a very gas-hungry race so you need to defend that expo @ all costs.
If you aren't comfortable with defending a bunker rush, I suggest you 9 pool instead.
Well, I scouted it with my Overlord, but by the time he got to my nat, my Hatchery was only half done I think, and I had only just started my pool. So i really had no idea what to do at all.
I was tossing up between 12 pool or 12 hatch, I guess that 12 pool would have been alot better.
So I guess that until I hit a higher rank, I should 12 Pool, stupid cheese.
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Read the recommended threads, they cover this area easily
So here is the way you stop a bunker rush
Go 12 hatch as usual
Make sure that when your ovie pops out, send it near your hatch so you can spot them if they start bunker rushing you. If they still bunker rush you while you see them, send 2 drones out to kill his scv building the bunker. If he has a marine with him, bring about 6~7 drones to kill marine / scv. Save 3 larvae as usual for 6 lings when pool finishes
Now if you didn't see him build bunker and his bunker is already finished, it depends on how many marines he has inside bunker. If he only has like 1, take about 6 drones and kill any incoming marines trying to go inside the bunker. 1 marine takes forever to kill a hatchery.
If he somehow has 4 marines inside bunker, start making a sunken colony outside bunker range. Sunken range > bunker range. If your sunken gets finished, he knows his rush fails, so he will take marine out of bunker to try to attack morphing colony. Keep scaring him with 6+ drones and you will buy enough time for sunken OR lings to finish.
Defeating bunker rush is all about buying yourself enough time without letting him do any damage to you. Remember, time is on your side. 8 lings + 4 drones will tear up a full bunker.
Anyway, I think T's who cheese Z is really gay.
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DO NOT CANCEL THAT HATCHERY. Jeez you'll lose minerals when you cancel it..
Just grab a bunch of drones, prevent the marines from getting into that bunker, or better yet take the out the scv that's building it. Deflecting Bunker rush is basically buying yourself time until zerglings come in to clean the marines.
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On April 01 2009 15:57 brotlov wrote:Ok, so in this game I went for a standard 12 Hatch, but he bunker rushed me. So I was wondering what do you do when you 12 Hatch, and he bunker rushes? I cancelled my Hatchary, was that good or bad? The rest of the game I was playing off 1 base, untill I researched drop, but because he kept me in my base, I didn't have the gas to perform any decent attacks. I tried harrasing him with mutas, but that failed. So I'd like to see what I did wrong in the early game. And how I could improve next time I bunker get rushed. And if I do get bunker rushed, what can I do to stop it? Here's the replay:
it's a stupid bnet game. you need to put up with shit like 14cc, 4 scvs rushes, bunker rushes, and ling rushes. fuck the masses.
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On April 01 2009 16:45 Polyphasic wrote:Show nested quote +On April 01 2009 15:57 brotlov wrote:Ok, so in this game I went for a standard 12 Hatch, but he bunker rushed me. So I was wondering what do you do when you 12 Hatch, and he bunker rushes? I cancelled my Hatchary, was that good or bad? The rest of the game I was playing off 1 base, untill I researched drop, but because he kept me in my base, I didn't have the gas to perform any decent attacks. I tried harrasing him with mutas, but that failed. So I'd like to see what I did wrong in the early game. And how I could improve next time I bunker get rushed. And if I do get bunker rushed, what can I do to stop it? Here's the replay: it's a stupid bnet game. you need to put up with shit like 14cc, 4 scvs rushes, bunker rushes, and ling rushes. fuck the masses.
As opposed to...? Iccup games? Proleague? OSL? lawl.. you will always see this, regardless of situation.. unless you make "10 mins no rush" or something.
Anyway, OP, alot of zergs send their second over to the natural to spot for this kind of thing.. it really ruined my bunker rushes on D+.. depending on how many scvs he brings, send more drones to kill the scv that is constructing the bunker, and/or block the marines from entering it.
There is a proleague VOD of July(?) .. I forget which zerg it is.. but he fights the bunker rush back and then goes on to the terran base with the drones and kills him with pure drone micro. It was on Andromeda a while ago.
Defending the bunker rush depends heavily on your micro, you will become good at it with practise.
Also, in that game, you could've killed him with muta micro pretty easy.. work on muta stack micro.
GL
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Don't 12pool to avoid bunker rushes, as it is a reallly really bad build. Send second overlord to nat to watch for bunker rushes, save larve for lings and use drones to a. kill worker making bunker and b. block + kill marines coming towards the bunker before they get to it. Also make sure that you continue with scouting + a game plan after deflecting the bunker rush, as you really need to know if the T is planning to do a mech followup or a expo, or something else.
Search function if you want better replies though.~
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Always send your second overlord to your natural to spot that hatchary
Keep scouting until you find him, if you see no barracks in his base then it means he proxied you. If he is sending marines directly from his base, use your scouting drone to block/attack the marine, it will buy you time.
One way to stop it is to build a sunken out of the bunker range. But that will require a few zergling support. When he comes out to fire at your morphing sunken, you need to attack with some zerglings and force him back in the bunker. The you retreat. Repeat this and his attack will fail.
Using pure zerglings, you need to unite them from your main base and your expo. Never send in zerglins one at a time. If there are not enough zerglings yet, send the ones spawning from your natural hatch out to kill any reinforcements or to counter his base.
Always remember to find the barrack and force him to lift if he proxied it. Don't send everything you have though, just enough to make him lift. Then pressure him with the rest if your lings but do not go all in! You are already ahead so just play it normal from there on.
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On April 01 2009 15:57 brotlov wrote:Ok, so in this game I went for a standard 12 Hatch, but he bunker rushed me. So I was wondering what do you do when you 12 Hatch, and he bunker rushes? I cancelled my Hatchary, was that good or bad? The rest of the game I was playing off 1 base, untill I researched drop, but because he kept me in my base, I didn't have the gas to perform any decent attacks. I tried harrasing him with mutas, but that failed. So I'd like to see what I did wrong in the early game. And how I could improve next time I bunker get rushed. And if I do get bunker rushed, what can I do to stop it? Here's the replay:
oh geez, let's address what you did after you cancled your hatch first. The 2nd sunken you drop is in a comical location.. behind the minerals directly on the edge of the map. Meanwhile, you (re)place your 2nd hatchery on the other side of your original hatch, only like 3 squares over. What good does that do??? I stopped watching after that so I don't know what happened, but I thought it was interesting enough to point out.
On your build.. make drones until 13.. IIRC you went 12 hatch, 11 pool, then inexplicably stopped making drones at 11. Part of the reason why 12 hatch expo is so strong in ZvT is that, if needed, you can pull 8 or so drones off to defend and still have 4-5 still mining, depending on whether or not you scout (I usually send 2 drones down to expand and use 1 to scout). You'll also have enough minerals because you'd otherwise be using them to drop a 3rd hatch, which you are certainly going to have to delay if you're facing something like 8 proxy bunker rush.
Also, you CAN'T lose an ovie at this stage of the game, which I believe you do. If you can't make lings fast it's probably gg.
There are some tricks with drone micro that others have described pretty well. You can also stack them by using a mineral in your main, minerals and gas at your expo, and perhaps another patch of minerals with a scouting ovie. So all in all, you'll have a decent amount of mobility with that.
Check the game Zerg~Legend posted in this thread if you're confused about what I'm talking about: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=90365
The game starts off with an 8 proxy rax rush but ZL defends nicely.. just make sure you make your lings ASAFP!
Obviously keep as many drones alive as possible, and have them mine at your natural when it's safe. Build a sunken only if absolutely necessary, but you really need to learn how to defend with drone/ling.
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Or if its really bad and he sends alot of scvs or it was some 8 rax proxy crap, just have vision of his mineral patch and send out alot of drones and like 10 lings and counter. Just make a sunken in your main and forget about your nat. - july vs nada
He can retreat with his attacking group and you can rape it right there or he can keep attacking. If he blocks ramp you drone drill, and one bunker wont save him from 10 lings and ~8 drones.
regular bunker rush just try to stop it with drone ling. youll want to get out of this in better condition than the T
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cancel hatch isn't auto lose, if you can get pool building and cancel it at the last second. He spends a lot of money and time into making the bunker and building early. Then watch for when he retreats from the bunker or starts to build more shit there, then you speedling rape.
But in general yea use drones and lings to battle it.
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On April 01 2009 16:05 brotlov wrote:Show nested quote +On April 01 2009 16:02 Resonance wrote:
Canceling your hatchery is like an instant loss for you. The whole point of the 12 hatch is to get the expansion early lol. You should pull drones and defend with those, trying to target the marines or the scv that is making the bunker, until your zerglings come. Never cancel the hatchery...jesus christ lol. You can always counter with zerglings his base if you cannot destroy the bunk somehow (let's say you micro'd poorly and he brought quite a few scvs), and then stay on one base and just pump zerglings and hope that you destroy his base with the counter. Then all you need to do is survive the attack on your base and you win.
Didn't watch the replay btw, canceling the hatchery is all the info needed heh. Also, 1 base zerg is really bad for later tech units (and 1 base zerg is really bad in general unless you are trying some sort of early game cheese rush or something), especially since zerg is a very gas-hungry race so you need to defend that expo @ all costs.
If you aren't comfortable with defending a bunker rush, I suggest you 9 pool instead. Well, I scouted it with my Overlord, but by the time he got to my nat, my Hatchery was only half done I think, and I had only just started my pool. So i really had no idea what to do at all. I was tossing up between 12 pool or 12 hatch, I guess that 12 pool would have been alot better. So I guess that until I hit a higher rank, I should 12 Pool, stupid cheese.
That shouldn't be happening. When he starts his bunker I would imagine your pool should be about 50% done or so. It goes 12 hatch, 11 pool. When are you getting your pool? If you were just starting your pool when your hatch was half done that means you started it 1 minute after your hatch(hatcheries take 2 minutes, as shown in the map editor). When your 12hatch is doesn't take 45 seconds - a minute for that. There have already been threads on bunker rushes as well so look at those, it's basically just drone micro until your lings hatch.
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Only cancel when he comes at you with like 8+ scvs but cancel at the very last second.
Depending how many scvs he sends, you send out drones, about his number of scvs +2 drones to kill marines, if you scout it early, harass his scouting scv with 2 drones as long as you have already placed the pool/he has started bunker.
If you have already stopped the bunker rush using only drones, his scvs have retreated, theres no bunker, etc. try not to make more than 2 lings for now.
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Bunker rushed? Type "fuck you fucking cheese noob", then disconnect without gg.
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United States43348 Posts
On April 01 2009 17:40 meathook wrote:Show nested quote +On April 01 2009 16:45 Polyphasic wrote:On April 01 2009 15:57 brotlov wrote:Ok, so in this game I went for a standard 12 Hatch, but he bunker rushed me. So I was wondering what do you do when you 12 Hatch, and he bunker rushes? I cancelled my Hatchary, was that good or bad? The rest of the game I was playing off 1 base, untill I researched drop, but because he kept me in my base, I didn't have the gas to perform any decent attacks. I tried harrasing him with mutas, but that failed. So I'd like to see what I did wrong in the early game. And how I could improve next time I bunker get rushed. And if I do get bunker rushed, what can I do to stop it? Here's the replay: it's a stupid bnet game. you need to put up with shit like 14cc, 4 scvs rushes, bunker rushes, and ling rushes. fuck the masses. As opposed to...? Iccup games? Proleague? OSL? lawl.. you will always see this, regardless of situation.. unless you make "10 mins no rush" or something. Anyway, OP, alot of zergs send their second over to the natural to spot for this kind of thing.. it really ruined my bunker rushes on D+.. depending on how many scvs he brings, send more drones to kill the scv that is constructing the bunker, and/or block the marines from entering it. There is a proleague VOD of July(?) .. I forget which zerg it is.. but he fights the bunker rush back and then goes on to the terran base with the drones and kills him with pure drone micro. It was on Andromeda a while ago. Defending the bunker rush depends heavily on your micro, you will become good at it with practise. Also, in that game, you could've killed him with muta micro pretty easy.. work on muta stack micro. GL
Sounds a lot like July vs NaDa on R-Point, very famous game.
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Bunker rushes are 2 ez to stop, i dont know why would anyone do that.
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