EPTCause since my scouting probe killed and zerg has speedlings, i cannot see what he does, and if i go mass cannons in my nat and zerg doesn't go fast hydra push, then i am way too far behind him.
So, what do you think, what's the best vs this?
[Q] PvZ defending fast hydra push
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bitchaRd[raGe]
Russian Federation376 Posts
Cause since my scouting probe killed and zerg has speedlings, i cannot see what he does, and if i go mass cannons in my nat and zerg doesn't go fast hydra push, then i am way too far behind him. So, what do you think, what's the best vs this? | ||
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koreasilver
9109 Posts
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Azrael1111
United States550 Posts
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petzergling
538 Posts
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Repertoire
Canada92 Posts
You can also click on the mineral patch with the second probe when you have vision with the first scouting probe. This allows the second probe to bypass the ramp and get another scout in. | ||
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Dromar
United States2145 Posts
On January 25 2009 02:41 Snacks wrote: Send another scouting probe to a random area on the map, so when your first probe dies you can scout for a 3rd expansion or get lucky and scout his main. You can also click on the mineral patch with the second probe when you have vision with the first scouting probe. This allows the second probe to bypass the ramp and get another scout in. Yeah I think the best answer is to get another scout in, even though it's hard. You send another probe to hide somewhere on the map as soon as your first one is killed. Wait for him to get his lings outside your base, and then a bit later send the scout to his base or look for a third. You should have some time to scout before his lings get there. If he manages to completely deny scouting, you may have to add cannons. | ||
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Cloud
Sexico5880 Posts
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Malongo
Chile3472 Posts
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bitchaRd[raGe]
Russian Federation376 Posts
 Some zergs make early sunk and even put 2 lings into ramp so you can't sneak into his main. Scouting his 3rd may work (if he didn't get 3rd means he is all-in hyda or muta) but on some huge maps you can't scout all expansions, and zerg can expand everywhere. So, it seems that 2nd hiding probe and mineral walk is the only ultimate solution, though it hasn't ultimate solutions  | ||
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Cloud
Sexico5880 Posts
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Breavman
Sweden598 Posts
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Cheerio
Ukraine3178 Posts
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imperfect
Canada1652 Posts
On January 25 2009 03:53 Cloud wrote: Get your corsair asap and keep making zeals, you may need to cut probes, but you want your sair to be out in record time. On January 25 2009 04:15 Cloud wrote: Thats why you make your sair faster and produce nonstop zeals. yeah i think this is the best answer, although the hidden probe works sometimes. you have to play around with your overall core timing to get the sair in, or else just build cannons. better safe than dead! | ||
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Shado.
United States187 Posts
It is almost impossible to completely deny scouting without having at least 10-12 speedlings. What most protoss do is try to sneak one probe out, which attracts the attention of the lings, then send either a second scout out after most of the lings are chasing the initial scout. You can also send a zlot out to scout, they have a lot more life, and can usually make it far enough to see if zerg has gone all in. You can also engage the lings with a 2-3zlots and 2-3 probes and force him to reveal his army composition. Either way, you need to do something to scout zerg. Cutting probes for an early sair is really risky. By then it could be too late. | ||
OneOther
United States10774 Posts
On January 25 2009 04:15 Cloud wrote: Thats why you make your sair faster and produce nonstop zeals. No, this is wrong. You never get your corsair on time to prepare for a 2 hatch hydra all-in, if the Zerg is half-decent. It doesn't matter how much you rush the tech or cut probes. Add a third cannon, then it's up to the experience and game sense, really. And yeah, keep making those zealots because zealots+probes really help you survive. Do everything you can to get as much information as possible. Like someone said above, hide a probe somewhere that Overlords will not be flying across. Try to see when he gets the third. Of course scouting his main would be ideal, but that rarely happens, but even if you scout his natural, you can somewhat tell what he's doing by looking at the drone count. | ||
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meegrean
Thailand7699 Posts
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Knickknack
United States1187 Posts
I know, a novel idea. Also might want to consider 3hatch hydra as that is pretty deadly as well. I'll give Jaedong 2hatch hydra vs arew @ WCG bluestorm overpool, 8gas, 10 3x lings, speed, 2lings, expo, 13 drones, 15den, drones, 17speed +lord, 23range+ovie 6 hydras by 5:00 8ling/11+hydra speed/range by 6:00 JD attacked arew at 6:20 with 8ling/9hydra Looking at this rep, pushing out with 3lots at 5min seems to be pretty promising. 8 spread out speedlings vs 3zealot, so you should be able to see what the z is up to ~5:30 which is easily enough time to react with loads of cannons. How should zerg react to this? Make more lings while hiding the hydra and try to kill lots before they scout much? So send a probe out after the lots? As said by others the sair timing to scout and react to 2hat hydra seems pretty iffy...though i did not work out the timings. | ||
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Cloud
Sexico5880 Posts
On January 25 2009 10:55 OneOther wrote: No, this is wrong. You never get your corsair on time to prepare for a 2 hatch hydra all-in, if the Zerg is half-decent. It doesn't matter how much you rush the tech or cut probes. Add a third cannon, then it's up to the experience and game sense, really. And yeah, keep making those zealots because zealots+probes really help you survive. Do everything you can to get as much information as possible. Like someone said above, hide a probe somewhere that Overlords will not be flying across. Try to see when he gets the third. Of course scouting his main would be ideal, but that rarely happens, but even if you scout his natural, you can somewhat tell what he's doing by looking at the drone count. You already need to have a 3rd cannon if you want to survive speedlings, the hiding probe is guarantee of absolutely nothing if he has zerglings at his choke. The only way you can be sure of what the zerg is doing is with a corsair. | ||
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OneOther
United States10774 Posts
On January 25 2009 12:02 Cloud wrote: You already need to have a 3rd cannon if you want to survive speedlings, the hiding probe is guarantee of absolutely nothing if he has zerglings at his choke. The only way you can be sure of what the zerg is doing is with a corsair. Obviously? My point is you don't get a Corsair on time to get sufficient defense for a hydra break. Hydra break is aimed to come right before/right as Corsair pops out. Everyone knows Corsair is the best scouting method in PvZ, it's just you don't get it on time so you have to resort to other things. In an ideal world, we Protoss players would be able to get the sair on time to defend verses any kind of all-in attack  | ||
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Cloud
Sexico5880 Posts
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