EPThe needs to play
[G][Q] My zerg on coke - Page 11
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Mora
Canada5235 Posts
he needs to play | ||
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Rucky
United States717 Posts
I love this build late game- Ultra ling? Sure then- Mass muta? ok mass hydra? Drops? Man terran is just not going to be able to keep up! (hopefully) It seems to me like when this build hits late game, zerg has the option to do any build with the insane economy. So, the main point to have this build successful is to get to late game. The question is! Will mass hydra-ling with ensnare support be enough to hold off until late game? We'll know later with more gaming.....go game! | ||
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Misrah
United States1695 Posts
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Misrah
United States1695 Posts
On October 31 2008 06:22 Geo.Rion wrote: actually this build has a pretty much perfect, not all-in, not wierd counter build, however i wont give out terran TvZ BOs, since T is only my second race after Zerg, and the build does not belongs to me, but to a friend of mine who's much better than me. I still think it may be a viable option, so i will keep trying. so what are you trying to say? Every build has a counter. I just feel that (if this build becomes viable actually) that this build may be a great way to confuse terran. Is Z going fast lurker? (if you face a spire) Is Z going fast Muta? Or with the increased hatch- is Z going all in lings? I think that this build will help to open the options zerg has against terran in the ZVT MU. I would be interesting in listening to what your Terran friend has to say about this counter he has created.  | ||
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Infundibulum
United States2552 Posts
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Conquest101
United States1395 Posts
Make this a request for helping his friend =p | ||
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Mora
Canada5235 Posts
On October 31 2008 08:10 Misrah wrote: tru that- but considering that you were getting hive play at about 8:40 zerg may be able to make late game come faster than normal. The question is, (and i feel that this will become easier/faster the more you play the build)- how many hatches/drones do you have at this time? I figure that if you can get a "critical mass" of hatch this is going to be hilariusly funny. To try and watch terran fight back when zerg has high production and hive play. hmm.... the hive should come much later. at 8:40 it is not possible to have 3 bases, 7 upgrades, 6 queens, 4-5 groups of units, and hive tech. nope! | ||
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Misrah
United States1695 Posts
Mora, would you agree that hive timing is game dependent? i daresay- that the longer you could delay hive, the more powerful your economy and production rate could become. So- if you are a good player- you should be able to forgo hive play till you hit full fledged Cocaine style zerg. At which point, you switch to Hive and transition into Dopamine style zerg. Just imagine it! The fully upgraded ultras, the sudden mass muta blobs, the drops- the.................... everything. Ohh for anyone that cares: I have selected a piece of music that fits perfectly into this play style: Musik: | ||
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Pokebunny
United States10654 Posts
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GHOSTCLAW
United States17042 Posts
On October 31 2008 11:47 Pokebunny wrote: I'm really thinking that standard Lurk/Ling with one queen might be better. Under ensnare, it really maximizes the lurker effect with splash. Hydras are good too (plague + hydras = one hit kill from range = ownage) Lurk/ling dosen't really work out in the open- T's micro/spread is just too good, even with slowed down marines. And firebats break the dps lowering that we're trying to achieve (against lings). | ||
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Rucky
United States717 Posts
The weakness to this build is usually early game. 1 base multirax builds or sunken break builds are really hard to deal with though since they will have a quick sizable army before ensnare and before hydras are fully upgraded. With the right m&m micro, the game could end right there for zerg. If you put up sunkens and mass lings at the natural, you'll be contained. If you have other expansions they will be as good as dead. So how can this coke build beat the 1 base multirax? A good flank? seems to me like when the m&m are well positioned and stim, lings just die. How to survive until ensnare and hydras are ready? | ||
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Conquest101
United States1395 Posts
On October 31 2008 16:16 Rucky wrote: I've noticed that this build can counter any unorthodox build from terran. If terran goes fe or fantasy build, this build just goes crazy, because there's not pressure from terran early on. This build definitely rapes the mech builds. I played one game, where i was vulture dropped and gol dropped, and i easily defended with hydra-ling. Then with my 5 hatches, i just mass units and a-move. The weakness to this build is usually early game. 1 base multirax builds or sunken break builds are really hard to deal with though since they will have a quick sizable army before ensnare and before hydras are fully upgraded. With the right m&m micro, the game could end right there for zerg. If you put up sunkens and mass lings at the natural, you'll be contained. If you have other expansions they will be as good as dead. So how can this coke build beat the 1 base multirax? A good flank? seems to me like when the m&m are well positioned and stim, lings just die. How to survive until ensnare and hydras are ready? Everyone might be looking at this the wrong way. As you said, this build is good and against mech/tech builds, and arguably good against FE. However, there is no one ultimate build, so this build's weakness might just be 1 base multirax/sunk break builds. Period. So if you scout/think a T is doing this, do some other build? | ||
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Misrah
United States1695 Posts
So hope that this helped a bit | ||
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Mora
Canada5235 Posts
On October 31 2008 11:27 Misrah wrote: Ohh- about that. Just commenting on Rucky's youtube video. He gets a crazy fast hive, after semi spoiling terrans mid game 3tank 1 vessel push. i just watched the game. my thoughts: This wasn't the strategy discussed on here at all. This was 2base fast hive tech. We can discuss the merits of such a strategy in a different thread. In the meantime i am going to imagine accurate situations relative to the general pacing of this game and cocain zerg. what the terran should have done differently:
Based on the pacing of the game, the following thoughts were provoked. The nucleus of the strategy resides on responding to Terran movements and Terran production - or, in practical terms: precise scouting.
The rest is up to you! | ||
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Mora
Canada5235 Posts
On October 31 2008 16:16 Rucky wrote: The weakness to this build is usually early game. 1 base multirax builds or sunken break builds are really hard to deal with though since they will have a quick sizable army before ensnare and before hydras are fully upgraded. With the right m&m micro, the game could end right there for zerg. If you put up sunkens and mass lings at the natural, you'll be contained. If you have other expansions they will be as good as dead. This build is not made to counter 1base Terran. In that case you could do many things (what do you normally do against 1base T? do that. lol) * 3hatch muta/ling * 3hatch lurker/ling * etc. | ||
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DarkSaieden
South Africa254 Posts
On October 30 2008 21:24 DarkSaieden wrote: for late game against 2 port/pure SK, would it be viable to just add defilers and use mostly hydra/defiler/queen and lings for flank/consume/sneaky crackling drops? micro would be much easier than almost any other anti-MM-ball. just hold hydras, swarm on hydras, ensare MM/vessels and then.. PLAGUUU! then eitther rinse repeat, or mop up right there As for this idea- any thoughts? Right now I am leaning towards, I love this idea? but who knows.... Seems like a much better counter to SK than going fast ultra no? On October 30 2008 21:46 village_idiot wrote: In this situation Ultraling + the occasional defiler is still miles better. Ultraling is easier to micro which gives you more time to macro. village_idiot & Conquest101 obviously think this idea is no good- any collaborators here? once again- I/We/this build needs GROUP opinion and experience. [/QUOTE] also remember, a crit mass of hydra will totally nullify vessel and thus less gas for defilers. On October 31 2008 03:16 village_idiot wrote: How will this build work on maps where the Terran can secure a third expansion? I'm talking about a map with a min-only like Andromeda and Medusa. If I have understood this build correctly, the essential idea is to have the whole map under control and the Terran sort of contained. By contained, I mean that every time Terran moves out, his army is attacked and Terran never reaches the point where he can pump out so much marimedi that he can steamroll the Zerg. And while this is not cost effective for the Zerg, the Zerg player only needs to buy time for his mass expansion Ultraling. The idea is to keep Terran at main + natural. Also, OP, when are you getting your comp back... it's been such a long time... mass drop on back door. in ando, at the power gens, and behind the temples on medusa, map control willing of course | ||
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Metaspace
Austria670 Posts
On October 31 2008 04:42 Geo.Rion wrote: Misrah should be proud, his build is used all around the world I played this build yesterday afternoon with a friend, intending to post a replay. I cannot, I have to say, as I played terribly :-) After the first game, a guy observes us talking about the past game, and asks if he can obs us. We agree, and the moment I lay down the queen's nest, he asks, "And, ist this the Misrah build?" :-)) Real fun, on the other hand he recognized me from this thread which was somewaht awkward as I played so terrible :-) | ||
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cyronc
218 Posts
On October 31 2008 19:22 Metaspace wrote: I played this build yesterday afternoon with a friend, intending to post a replay. I cannot, I have to say, as I played terribly :-) After the first game, a guy observes us talking about the past game, and asks if he can obs us. We agree, and the moment I lay down the queen's nest, he asks, "And, ist this the Misrah build?" :-)) Real fun, on the other hand he recognized me from this thread which was somewaht awkward as I played so terrible :-) yeah that would have been me aka forever.noob | ||
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Geo.Rion
7377 Posts
On October 31 2008 08:14 Misrah wrote: so what are you trying to say? Every build has a counter. I just feel that (if this build becomes viable actually) that this build may be a great way to confuse terran. Is Z going fast lurker? (if you face a spire) Is Z going fast Muta? Or with the increased hatch- is Z going all in lings? I think that this build will help to open the options zerg has against terran in the ZVT MU. I would be interesting in listening to what your Terran friend has to say about this counter he has created. i agree with almost everythin you just wrote above, i dint say this build isn't good, or isn't a valouros add to the Z BO's, i said it's a viable option. However it is countered by an already existent build, which i use when i feel my mechanics are working well. This build i'm talking about is disiegned to kill the Zergs who arent going mutalisks (or massmass zerglings early on, bout who the hell goes for that), and still is very good against the muta play too. Of course this build as every other may have his counter too, and becauzse i played against it i have some tought how it can be deflected, but with this bo i kill up zergs who are better than me statisticly, in rank, and APM. For sure it's nothing overpowered, but to me it seems just too easy (or maybe i have some hidden talent for T, and i'm a fool for sticking with the Zergs, lol). yet again i wont write it down, ZvT is hard enough anyway. | ||
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cyronc
218 Posts
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