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Watched "Sniffing for Carriers! Bisu π°π· (P) vs Speed π°π· (T) on Dominator! - Starcraft - Brood War - 2025" on the Falcon Paladin youtube channel.
Bisu opened range expand --> 2 gate obs --> 3rd base around 6:30.
Speed opened 12 gas --> fac cc --> 3rd base off 3 factories.
Bisu went up to 5 base, then 7 base as Speed got their 3rd and 4th bases up.
Bisu then tried to transition to Carriers, Speed hit with a timing attack --> gg.
Not a whole lot to say about this game, Bisu may have been better off just throwing down more gateways/going arbiters w/ storm instead of investing in the carriers.
Other than that, well played by both sides...ggs π―π―
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On October 30 2025 21:29 mtcn77 wrote:Show nested quote +On October 19 2025 10:38 perfectspheres wrote:On September 28 2025 16:30 mtcn77 wrote:On September 28 2025 14:43 perfectspheres wrote:On September 28 2025 07:01 mtcn77 wrote:On September 28 2025 06:55 perfectspheres wrote:On September 28 2025 02:50 mtcn77 wrote:
Yeah, we are seeing terrific off meta games from title contenders like flash and larva. Larva reinvented queen play with ensnare and completely put a dead halt to flash's timing push. Imagine we had more Roaring Current games. Pros would be forced to reinvent themselves in the millenial playstyle at island maps. Pretty sure we just watched the Flash vs Larva game that you are talking about from yesterday that is on the 'Artosiscasts' youtube channel titled "FlaSh inventing Sky Terran". Looked like a calculated gamble by Flash, going 13cc against Larva's 12 hatch (at 350 minerals, kind of sloppy π€·ββοΈπ€·ββοΈ). You would usually expect a player like Flash to convert an early advantage like that into a win, but they decided to go 3 starport wraiths/valks -> dropships. They basically threw the game away by spending their resources inefficiently. Wouldn't read too much into it as it looked like Flash was just messing around trying different builds on the open play ladders. You could say the same for Light, too. Larva 3 hatched him. I wouldn't put too much emphasis on dominator, however Roaring Currents is a new kind of map. You cannot punish greed on Roaring Currents. The fortune favors the bold there. I wouldn't say Flash did bad. I would however say he overestimated his skills for reasons above. Haven't seen enough games on Roaring Currents to really speak on it. But yeah, some act like Flash's gameplay is always perfect, it is not. Overconfidence can be a weakness at times. They also have been known to make occasional strategic blunders (i.e. stubbornly going upgrade terran vs protoss, or giving away a few games vs zerg by going 13/14cc against overmatched opponents). There is Effort vs Sharp, Speed vs Hero, Larva vs Light, Larva vs Flash. They are all blockbusters. I'm yet to see a bad one. The reason is the game mechanics. You start with a big L that eliminates spawn luck of the draw, but also eliminates lucky scouting advantage. Then, tech enables huge air shortcut, there hasn't been a map with air shortcut. Would do an analysis of those games if we could...tried finding some of those games on youtube/the small VOD thread and couldn't π€¦ββοΈπ€¦ββοΈ Here you go: Effort vs Sharp; + Show Spoiler +Speed vs Hero; + Show Spoiler +Light vs Shine; + Show Spoiler +Larva vs Flash; + Show Spoiler +Sharp vs Larva; + Show Spoiler +
Already did an analysis of the Larva vs Flash game, but just watched the Sharp vs Larva game and here are our thoughts:
Sharp opened fac-->starport-->cc-->science vessels.
Larva opened 2.5 hatch with their 3rd base finishing around 6:30.
Sharp transitioned into bio, then did a timing attack and took down Larva's 3rd base.
You would think this would win them the game, but they allowed Larva to get a new 3rd and 4th base at the island expos.
It seems Sharp stayed on 2 base too long, and after eventually getting their 3rd and 4th base up, then losing their 4th and building Battlecruisers, they decided to gg.
Kind of a whatever game. Sharp probably could have won by being more dilligent in sniffing out new bases from Larva after taking down their original 3rd, but hindsight is 20/20 π€·ββοΈπ€·ββοΈ
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Just watched "DROP THOSE MARINES! Soma! π°π· (Z) vs Speed! π°π· (T) on Polypoid - Starcraft - Brood War 2025" on the Falcon Paladin youtube channel.
Speed opened 1 rax CC --> 2 rax academy.
Soma opened 2.5 hatch and didn't start their 3rd base until 7:45.
It looks like Soma decided to delay their third base a bit in favor of a stronger midgame army, got their 3rd and 4th base up --> gg.
You would think staying on 2 base vs 2 base for that long would be in Terran's favor, but Soma showed how Zerg in this matchup can use a temporary army advantage to defend/take map control, then leapfrog the Terran economically and get their lategame tech up.
Impressive game by Soma π―π―
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On November 07 2025 07:32 perfectspheres wrote:Show nested quote +On October 30 2025 21:29 mtcn77 wrote:On October 19 2025 10:38 perfectspheres wrote:On September 28 2025 16:30 mtcn77 wrote:On September 28 2025 14:43 perfectspheres wrote:On September 28 2025 07:01 mtcn77 wrote:On September 28 2025 06:55 perfectspheres wrote:On September 28 2025 02:50 mtcn77 wrote:
Yeah, we are seeing terrific off meta games from title contenders like flash and larva. Larva reinvented queen play with ensnare and completely put a dead halt to flash's timing push. Imagine we had more Roaring Current games. Pros would be forced to reinvent themselves in the millenial playstyle at island maps. Pretty sure we just watched the Flash vs Larva game that you are talking about from yesterday that is on the 'Artosiscasts' youtube channel titled "FlaSh inventing Sky Terran". Looked like a calculated gamble by Flash, going 13cc against Larva's 12 hatch (at 350 minerals, kind of sloppy π€·ββοΈπ€·ββοΈ). You would usually expect a player like Flash to convert an early advantage like that into a win, but they decided to go 3 starport wraiths/valks -> dropships. They basically threw the game away by spending their resources inefficiently. Wouldn't read too much into it as it looked like Flash was just messing around trying different builds on the open play ladders. You could say the same for Light, too. Larva 3 hatched him. I wouldn't put too much emphasis on dominator, however Roaring Currents is a new kind of map. You cannot punish greed on Roaring Currents. The fortune favors the bold there. I wouldn't say Flash did bad. I would however say he overestimated his skills for reasons above. Haven't seen enough games on Roaring Currents to really speak on it. But yeah, some act like Flash's gameplay is always perfect, it is not. Overconfidence can be a weakness at times. They also have been known to make occasional strategic blunders (i.e. stubbornly going upgrade terran vs protoss, or giving away a few games vs zerg by going 13/14cc against overmatched opponents). There is Effort vs Sharp, Speed vs Hero, Larva vs Light, Larva vs Flash. They are all blockbusters. I'm yet to see a bad one. The reason is the game mechanics. You start with a big L that eliminates spawn luck of the draw, but also eliminates lucky scouting advantage. Then, tech enables huge air shortcut, there hasn't been a map with air shortcut. Would do an analysis of those games if we could...tried finding some of those games on youtube/the small VOD thread and couldn't π€¦ββοΈπ€¦ββοΈ Here you go: Effort vs Sharp; + Show Spoiler +https://youtu.be/watch?v=pjGXmENhPU4 Speed vs Hero; + Show Spoiler +https://youtu.be/watch?v=0LqDFkFvCQE Light vs Shine; + Show Spoiler +https://youtu.be/watch?v=ArHFtIwm1ak Larva vs Flash; + Show Spoiler +https://youtu.be/watch?v=Tvn5j1MjrPk Sharp vs Larva; + Show Spoiler +https://youtu.be/watch?v=PzmipsbRr4w Already did an analysis of the Larva vs Flash game, but just watched the Sharp vs Larva game and here are our thoughts: Sharp opened fac-->starport-->cc-->science vessels. Larva opened 2.5 hatch with their 3rd base finishing around 6:30. Sharp transitioned into bio, then did a timing attack and took down Larva's 3rd base. You would think this would win them the game, but they allowed Larva to get a new 3rd and 4th base at the island expos. It seems Sharp stayed on 2 base too long, and after eventually getting their 3rd and 4th base up, then losing their 4th and building Battlecruisers, they decided to gg. Kind of a whatever game. Sharp probably could have won by being more dilligent in sniffing out new bases from Larva after taking down their original 3rd, but hindsight is 20/20 π€·ββοΈπ€·ββοΈ
Ignore my Flash Larva game. I sent it because I couldn't find the timeline when Larva ultralisk dropped Sharp in the other game. It is at 17:30. I found that interesting.
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On November 07 2025 21:33 mtcn77 wrote:Show nested quote +On November 07 2025 07:32 perfectspheres wrote:On October 30 2025 21:29 mtcn77 wrote:On October 19 2025 10:38 perfectspheres wrote:On September 28 2025 16:30 mtcn77 wrote:On September 28 2025 14:43 perfectspheres wrote:On September 28 2025 07:01 mtcn77 wrote:On September 28 2025 06:55 perfectspheres wrote:On September 28 2025 02:50 mtcn77 wrote:
Yeah, we are seeing terrific off meta games from title contenders like flash and larva. Larva reinvented queen play with ensnare and completely put a dead halt to flash's timing push. Imagine we had more Roaring Current games. Pros would be forced to reinvent themselves in the millenial playstyle at island maps. Pretty sure we just watched the Flash vs Larva game that you are talking about from yesterday that is on the 'Artosiscasts' youtube channel titled "FlaSh inventing Sky Terran". Looked like a calculated gamble by Flash, going 13cc against Larva's 12 hatch (at 350 minerals, kind of sloppy π€·ββοΈπ€·ββοΈ). You would usually expect a player like Flash to convert an early advantage like that into a win, but they decided to go 3 starport wraiths/valks -> dropships. They basically threw the game away by spending their resources inefficiently. Wouldn't read too much into it as it looked like Flash was just messing around trying different builds on the open play ladders. You could say the same for Light, too. Larva 3 hatched him. I wouldn't put too much emphasis on dominator, however Roaring Currents is a new kind of map. You cannot punish greed on Roaring Currents. The fortune favors the bold there. I wouldn't say Flash did bad. I would however say he overestimated his skills for reasons above. Haven't seen enough games on Roaring Currents to really speak on it. But yeah, some act like Flash's gameplay is always perfect, it is not. Overconfidence can be a weakness at times. They also have been known to make occasional strategic blunders (i.e. stubbornly going upgrade terran vs protoss, or giving away a few games vs zerg by going 13/14cc against overmatched opponents). There is Effort vs Sharp, Speed vs Hero, Larva vs Light, Larva vs Flash. They are all blockbusters. I'm yet to see a bad one. The reason is the game mechanics. You start with a big L that eliminates spawn luck of the draw, but also eliminates lucky scouting advantage. Then, tech enables huge air shortcut, there hasn't been a map with air shortcut. Would do an analysis of those games if we could...tried finding some of those games on youtube/the small VOD thread and couldn't π€¦ββοΈπ€¦ββοΈ Here you go: Effort vs Sharp; + Show Spoiler +https://youtu.be/watch?v=pjGXmENhPU4 Speed vs Hero; + Show Spoiler +https://youtu.be/watch?v=0LqDFkFvCQE Light vs Shine; + Show Spoiler +https://youtu.be/watch?v=ArHFtIwm1ak Larva vs Flash; + Show Spoiler +https://youtu.be/watch?v=Tvn5j1MjrPk Sharp vs Larva; + Show Spoiler +https://youtu.be/watch?v=PzmipsbRr4w Already did an analysis of the Larva vs Flash game, but just watched the Sharp vs Larva game and here are our thoughts: Sharp opened fac-->starport-->cc-->science vessels. Larva opened 2.5 hatch with their 3rd base finishing around 6:30. Sharp transitioned into bio, then did a timing attack and took down Larva's 3rd base. You would think this would win them the game, but they allowed Larva to get a new 3rd and 4th base at the island expos. It seems Sharp stayed on 2 base too long, and after eventually getting their 3rd and 4th base up, then losing their 4th and building Battlecruisers, they decided to gg. Kind of a whatever game. Sharp probably could have won by being more dilligent in sniffing out new bases from Larva after taking down their original 3rd, but hindsight is 20/20 π€·ββοΈπ€·ββοΈ Ignore my Flash Larva game. I sent it because I couldn't find the timeline when Larva ultralisk dropped Sharp in the other game. It is at 17:30. I found that interesting.
Yeah it looks like Larva was thinking of dropping one of Sharp's bases, but decided to do a defensive drop instead.
As for the Flash vs Larva game, the analysis for it is on one of the first posts on this thread, it's the "FlaSh inventing Sky Terran" game.
Once again, appreciate the game recommendations π―π―
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Just watched game 1 of "Artosis vs StRyKeR @ SC4ALL Philadelphia"
Artosis opened 2 rax academy.
StRyKeR opened 2.5 hatchery and delayed their 3rd similarly to how Soma did in the most recent game we did an analysis of.
But instead of going defilers, StRyKeR chose to go ultralisks off 3 base...got their 3rd breached by a large terran bio army --> gg.
Pretty good game, didn't know what to expect from a couple of "foreigners" ("illegal aliens" is what people from other countries are sometimes called in the United States)...
Artosis nailed their build order, seemed to do what they wanted to do. The zerg player (StRyKeR) looked like they made a bad choice skipping lurkers/defilers and opting for ultras. ggs.
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Just watched "[ENG] SCSL S4 3rd place match (Action vs Rush) - StarCastTV English" on the StarcastTV English youtube channel.
Rush opened with a proxy 8 rax towards the middle of the map, Action opened 9 pool.
Action decided to go straight for Rush's main with their initial zerglings, Rush decided to not try and defend...instead they tried to bunker Action's natural, and got a factory up as well.
After failing to take down Action's natural and losing a bunch of SCVs/their initial vulture...Rush decided to gg.
Nothing too interesting about this game, it seems like 8rax bunker rushes have lost a lot of their effectiveness, especially on 4 player maps.
Zergs seem very confident defending them with drones when they 12 hatch, and it is basically always going to be a lose/play from behind situation when they opt for an early pool.
Take it mind this was a 3rd place match (Rush might have just been trying to get the games over with), but wouldn't be surprised to see professional Terran players trend away from this strategy in the near future π€·ββοΈπ€·ββοΈ
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Watched "π₯π₯Ladderrnet 2025.11 Larva vs Barracks ZvT @ Knock Out | Starcraft Remastered" on the NamKraft youtube channel.
Wow this game was so crazy.
Barracks opened 1 rax CC (2 supply variant), then opted for a fast factory and starport --> valkyries.
Larva opened 12 hatch --> 2 hatch early 3rd.
After losing a good amount of SCVs to Larva's initial muta harass, Rush stablized, and then transitioned to Mech after getting on 4 base.
The game eventually went to 6 base Terran vs 7 Base Zerg, and Larva was all over the place with Queens constantly broodlinging Rush's tanks, defilers throwing down dark swarms + plague, scourge killing off science vessels, and ultra/ling swarming all over the map.
Haven't seen lategame Zerg look that good in a long time. Larva looked like an absolute beast vs the Terran mech transition.
Don't really like mech/tech plays off of 1 rax CC against 2 hatch early 3rd, and perhaps the game was already lost allowing Zerg to take their early 3rd with no resistance (in addition to taking economic damage from the first group of mutas)...but wow that was an impressive game from Larva π―π―
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Hi I'm a noob. I played SC:BW for a few years after it came out and since then I've just been a fan. Can anyone help me understand why main base ramp wall-ins are not done anymore? Is it the maps or has something evolved in the META to counter it somehow?
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On November 13 2025 04:30 malathion wrote:
Hi I'm a noob. I played SC:BW for a few years after it came out and since then I've just been a fan. Can anyone help me understand why main base ramp wall-ins are not done anymore? Is it the maps or has something evolved in the META to counter it somehow?
There are several factors, some are dependent on the MU (match-up). In general:
1. Terrans generally expand much earlier than in the past across all three MUs, so a wall doesn't fit their long-term plan.
2. Walls make pathing up and down the ramp a problem, which is especially bad in certain common scenarios (defending vs. Reaver drop, vs Muta, etc.).
MU-specific:
1. TvZ: Walls were never really common in this MU to begin with, and most of the 1 base builds which utilized a wall are out of fashion. I don't know how the modern crop of maps is in terms of making ling-tight walls, but the maps I do know are hit-or-miss, and on some maps it depends on the position.
2. TvT: Walls were never that common in this MU too, but even less so now. They simply don't serve any purpose in the MU.
3. TvP: FE (fast expand) builds are far more common than they used to be (on both sides of the MU), and in-base sim city using Barracks/CC/Depot/Factory is enough to hold Zealot pressure because Terrans have better sim city + Marine micro.
That all being said, plenty of people will still wall in public games and on lower level ladder, simply because it is safe and easy, even if disadvantaged in some areas.
ETA: This thread is basically one user's blog, for any similar questions I recommend this thread, which has far more eyes on it:
https://tl.net/forum/bw-strategy/220903-simple-questions-simple-answers
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Just watched "Laddernet 2025.11 Soulkey vs Light ZvT @ Roaring Current | Starcraft Remastered" on the NamKraft youtube channel.
Light opened 2 port, Soulkey opened 2.5 hatch + burrow.
After successfully defending the wraiths, and Light getting his expo up, Soulkey tried to double expand and got broken by a timing push by Light (bio+wraiths+valks) --> gg.
Soulkey in general seems very confident vs 2 port plays, but in this case it seems they were perhaps overconfident in trying to double expand.
We will see what they do differently in the future, as we have seen 2 port have some success vs 2.5 hatch plays recently π€·ββοΈπ€·ββοΈ
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On November 13 2025 09:12 Jealous wrote:Show nested quote +On November 13 2025 04:30 malathion wrote:
Hi I'm a noob. I played SC:BW for a few years after it came out and since then I've just been a fan. Can anyone help me understand why main base ramp wall-ins are not done anymore? Is it the maps or has something evolved in the META to counter it somehow? There are several factors, some are dependent on the MU (match-up). In general: 1. Terrans generally expand much earlier than in the past across all three MUs, so a wall doesn't fit their long-term plan. 2. Walls make pathing up and down the ramp a problem, which is especially bad in certain common scenarios (defending vs. Reaver drop, vs Muta, etc.). MU-specific: 1. TvZ: Walls were never really common in this MU to begin with, and most of the 1 base builds which utilized a wall are out of fashion. I don't know how the modern crop of maps is in terms of making ling-tight walls, but the maps I do know are hit-or-miss, and on some maps it depends on the position. 2. TvT: Walls were never that common in this MU too, but even less so now. They simply don't serve any purpose in the MU. 3. TvP: FE (fast expand) builds are far more common than they used to be (on both sides of the MU), and in-base sim city using Barracks/CC/Depot/Factory is enough to hold Zealot pressure because Terrans have better sim city + Marine micro. That all being said, plenty of people will still wall in public games and on lower level ladder, simply because it is safe and easy, even if disadvantaged in some areas. ETA: This thread is basically one user's blog, for any similar questions I recommend this thread, which has far more eyes on it: https://tl.net/forum/bw-strategy/220903-simple-questions-simple-answers
Yeah, most of the time these days with wall-able/semi-wallable naturals, Terrans are choosing to either wall off at their natural or not wall at all depending on the matchup.
This thread was created as a place to discuss the current (still evolving) strategy and gameplay of Brood War at the highest levels, as well as a place for us to journal our thoughts on the games we watch on pretty much a daily basis.
Once again, not really doing the analysis for anyone else...but if you would like one done of a particular game/games don't hesitate to let us know π«
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Just watched "CadenZie vs. Scarlett Bo9 SHOWMATCH" (game 1) on the ArtosisTV youtube channel.
CadenZie opened overpool, Scarlett opened with a 2 gate in their own main.
After getting scouted by an early probe, CadenZie took their 2nd hatchery at their 3rd base (mineral only) location.
Scarlett was unable to do damage with their early zealots to CadenZie's main, and allowed the zerg player to get 3 bases up before eventually taking down CadenZie's mineral only.
They also opted for a cybernetics core --> robo --> reavers instead of choosing to expand, tried to attack with a slow shuttle, got it sniped by hydras --> gg.
CadenZie seemed to play well, opting to go for hydralisks off of 2 base vs their 1 base opponent, while also getting their 3rd base back up.
It does seem Scarlett blundered a bit in going for the 1 base, 2 gate tech play...ater taking down CadenZie's 3rd, it might have been a better choice to expand, and attempt to play 2 base vs 2 base for as long as possible.
Have seen 2 gate plays give overpool openings problems at times, but have not really seen it too often recently at the professional levels π€·ββοΈπ€·ββοΈ
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Just watched "IF THIS GAME DOESNT PROVE PROTOSS IS IMBALANCED NOTHING WILL" on the eOnzErG youtube channel.
eOnzErG opened overpool --> 3 hatch hydra/ling.
Their protoss opponent opened with a forge fast expand, skipped Stargate, and opted for gateways --> dragoons.
eOnzErG tried to bust the protoss natural, got repelled...and decided to continue with hydra production instead of droning up.
They had very low drone saturation at their natural and 3rd for quite some time, deciding to stay on low drone count even after eventually breaking their opponent's natural and killing off the Nexus.
Eventually the Protoss was able to retake their natural, got their 3rd up as well --> gg.
It seems to us that 3 hatch hydralisk is not as strong as it was once considered to be. If you do not finish the protoss, the build can be very flimsy economically.
In this game, it also appears the zerg player made bad decision in not choosing to drone up for quite some time, with the protoss effectively playing in the dark...but hindsight is 20/20.
It also seems zerglings (or a mix of hydra/ling) can be more effective against mass dragoons than straight up hydralisks π€·ββοΈπ€·ββοΈ
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On November 08 2025 02:29 perfectspheres wrote:Show nested quote +On November 07 2025 21:33 mtcn77 wrote:On November 07 2025 07:32 perfectspheres wrote:On October 30 2025 21:29 mtcn77 wrote:On October 19 2025 10:38 perfectspheres wrote:On September 28 2025 16:30 mtcn77 wrote:On September 28 2025 14:43 perfectspheres wrote:On September 28 2025 07:01 mtcn77 wrote:On September 28 2025 06:55 perfectspheres wrote:On September 28 2025 02:50 mtcn77 wrote:
Yeah, we are seeing terrific off meta games from title contenders like flash and larva. Larva reinvented queen play with ensnare and completely put a dead halt to flash's timing push. Imagine we had more Roaring Current games. Pros would be forced to reinvent themselves in the millenial playstyle at island maps. Pretty sure we just watched the Flash vs Larva game that you are talking about from yesterday that is on the 'Artosiscasts' youtube channel titled "FlaSh inventing Sky Terran". Looked like a calculated gamble by Flash, going 13cc against Larva's 12 hatch (at 350 minerals, kind of sloppy π€·ββοΈπ€·ββοΈ). You would usually expect a player like Flash to convert an early advantage like that into a win, but they decided to go 3 starport wraiths/valks -> dropships. They basically threw the game away by spending their resources inefficiently. Wouldn't read too much into it as it looked like Flash was just messing around trying different builds on the open play ladders. You could say the same for Light, too. Larva 3 hatched him. I wouldn't put too much emphasis on dominator, however Roaring Currents is a new kind of map. You cannot punish greed on Roaring Currents. The fortune favors the bold there. I wouldn't say Flash did bad. I would however say he overestimated his skills for reasons above. Haven't seen enough games on Roaring Currents to really speak on it. But yeah, some act like Flash's gameplay is always perfect, it is not. Overconfidence can be a weakness at times. They also have been known to make occasional strategic blunders (i.e. stubbornly going upgrade terran vs protoss, or giving away a few games vs zerg by going 13/14cc against overmatched opponents). There is Effort vs Sharp, Speed vs Hero, Larva vs Light, Larva vs Flash. They are all blockbusters. I'm yet to see a bad one. The reason is the game mechanics. You start with a big L that eliminates spawn luck of the draw, but also eliminates lucky scouting advantage. Then, tech enables huge air shortcut, there hasn't been a map with air shortcut. Would do an analysis of those games if we could...tried finding some of those games on youtube/the small VOD thread and couldn't π€¦ββοΈπ€¦ββοΈ Here you go: Effort vs Sharp; + Show Spoiler +https://youtu.be/watch?v=pjGXmENhPU4 Speed vs Hero; + Show Spoiler +https://youtu.be/watch?v=0LqDFkFvCQE Light vs Shine; + Show Spoiler +https://youtu.be/watch?v=ArHFtIwm1ak Larva vs Flash; + Show Spoiler +https://youtu.be/watch?v=Tvn5j1MjrPk Sharp vs Larva; + Show Spoiler +https://youtu.be/watch?v=PzmipsbRr4w Already did an analysis of the Larva vs Flash game, but just watched the Sharp vs Larva game and here are our thoughts: Sharp opened fac-->starport-->cc-->science vessels. Larva opened 2.5 hatch with their 3rd base finishing around 6:30. Sharp transitioned into bio, then did a timing attack and took down Larva's 3rd base. You would think this would win them the game, but they allowed Larva to get a new 3rd and 4th base at the island expos. It seems Sharp stayed on 2 base too long, and after eventually getting their 3rd and 4th base up, then losing their 4th and building Battlecruisers, they decided to gg. Kind of a whatever game. Sharp probably could have won by being more dilligent in sniffing out new bases from Larva after taking down their original 3rd, but hindsight is 20/20 π€·ββοΈπ€·ββοΈ Ignore my Flash Larva game. I sent it because I couldn't find the timeline when Larva ultralisk dropped Sharp in the other game. It is at 17:30. I found that interesting. Yeah it looks like Larva was thinking of dropping one of Sharp's bases, but decided to do a defensive drop instead. As for the Flash vs Larva game, the analysis for it is on one of the first posts on this thread, it's the "FlaSh inventing Sky Terran" game. Once again, appreciate the game recommendations π―π―
I recommended it based on the drop looking very similar to how prime Jaedong used to drop very frequently. I think dropping really enhances the zerg faction. They have the weakest units, however the cheapest and the strongest transport units out of all three factions.
On November 13 2025 04:30 malathion wrote:
Hi I'm a noob. I played SC:BW for a few years after it came out and since then I've just been a fan. Can anyone help me understand why main base ramp wall-ins are not done anymore? Is it the maps or has something evolved in the META to counter it somehow?
Starcraft meta is not related to what works, but what given APM works best. That is why prime Jaedong and Queen seemed like they invented a new meta with queens and Flash used SK Terran every game. It is APM intensive, but works. Larva seems to be the new rebel. Everyone claims he isn't a pro, yet he cuts right across the roster of players. Apart from a minute timing push that only Flash can pull off, nothing beats his queen play.
Such is the 1 base wall. Sometime in the past, protoss players whined until natural bases got walled off. That made FE walls possible. Terrans players saw this and started fast expanding themselves, too. It is just on an APM reward basis to work.
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Just watched "Laddernet 2025.11 Rush vs Queen TvZ @ Metropolis | Starcraft Commentary"
Rush opened 2 rax academy, Queen opened with a 2.5 hatchery build, and started their 3rd base around 6:45.
After a few skirmishes, Rush pushed Queen's natural with a few valkyries+tanks in addition to their bio army --> gg.
Pretty quick and relatively unremarkable game.
It seems to us that this particular variation of the 2.5 hatchery build which some might consider "safe" just winds up putting the zerg player behind.
The Soma vs Speed game we did an analysis of recently, where Soma choose to go relatively low drone count, get a stronger midgame army, and leapfrog the Terran later economically while getting to 4 base showed one of the ways 2.5 hatchery can be successful against Terran.
It will be interesting to see how this matchup evolves π€·ββοΈπ€·ββοΈ
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Just watched "Laddernet 2025.11 Rush vs Soma TvZ @ Pole Star | Starcraft Remastered" on the NamKraft youtube channel.
Soma opened up 2 hatch --> early 3rd.
Rush opened 2 rax academy.
Soma got their mutalisks out, did some economic damage to Rush at their main mineral line...Rush then amassed a few control groups of medic marines, pushed Soma's Natural, won the battle there --> gg.
Not too much to say about this one, pretty standard example of 2rax academy > 2 hatch early 3rd.
We have seen Zerg have some success vs. Terran with a few different strategies lately, but this wasn't it.
It will be interesting to see what some of the top Zerg players decide to do to counter the variety of Terran build orders we have been seing π€·ββοΈπ€·ββοΈ
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On November 17 2025 15:22 perfectspheres wrote:
Just watched "IF THIS GAME DOESNT PROVE PROTOSS IS IMBALANCED NOTHING WILL" on the eOnzErG youtube channel.
eOnzErG opened overpool --> 3 hatch hydra/ling.
Their protoss opponent opened with a forge fast expand, skipped Stargate, and opted for gateways --> dragoons.
eOnzErG tried to bust the protoss natural, got repelled...and decided to continue with hydra production instead of droning up.
They had very low drone saturation at their natural and 3rd for quite some time, deciding to stay on low drone count even after eventually breaking their opponent's natural and killing off the Nexus.
Eventually the Protoss was able to retake their natural, got their 3rd up as well --> gg.
It seems to us that 3 hatch hydralisk is not as strong as it was once considered to be. If you do not finish the protoss, the build can be very flimsy economically.
In this game, it also appears the zerg player made bad decision in not choosing to drone up for quite some time, with the protoss effectively playing in the dark...but hindsight is 20/20.
It also seems zerglings (or a mix of hydra/ling) can be more effective against mass dragoons than straight up hydralisks π€·ββοΈπ€·ββοΈ
Just watched Soma vs Best S4W4 KCM game. I hold on to my view that hydralisks are not good units against a good millenial protoss.
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On November 21 2025 07:06 mtcn77 wrote:Show nested quote +On November 17 2025 15:22 perfectspheres wrote:
Just watched "IF THIS GAME DOESNT PROVE PROTOSS IS IMBALANCED NOTHING WILL" on the eOnzErG youtube channel.
eOnzErG opened overpool --> 3 hatch hydra/ling.
Their protoss opponent opened with a forge fast expand, skipped Stargate, and opted for gateways --> dragoons.
eOnzErG tried to bust the protoss natural, got repelled...and decided to continue with hydra production instead of droning up.
They had very low drone saturation at their natural and 3rd for quite some time, deciding to stay on low drone count even after eventually breaking their opponent's natural and killing off the Nexus.
Eventually the Protoss was able to retake their natural, got their 3rd up as well --> gg.
It seems to us that 3 hatch hydralisk is not as strong as it was once considered to be. If you do not finish the protoss, the build can be very flimsy economically.
In this game, it also appears the zerg player made bad decision in not choosing to drone up for quite some time, with the protoss effectively playing in the dark...but hindsight is 20/20.
It also seems zerglings (or a mix of hydra/ling) can be more effective against mass dragoons than straight up hydralisks π€·ββοΈπ€·ββοΈ Just watched Soma vs Best S4W4 KCM game. I hold on to my view that hydralisks are not good units against a good millenial protoss.
They're good, it just seems like hydra/ling is a more effective composition vs protoss.
4 zerglings = 100 minerals --> 140 hp (16 shots from dragoons, not counting regeneration due to them having 35 hp a piece).
4 zerglings also do 37.5 damage (un-upgraded) in the time it takes a hydralisk to fire 1 shot (10 explosive damage).
1 hydra = 75 minerals/25 gas (100 combined resources) --> 80 hp (6 shots from dragoons).
Of course you have to take into account the larva cost, but even 2 zerglings is probably a better investment against straight up dragoons than a hydralisk π€·ββοΈπ€·ββοΈ
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Just watched "Laddernet 2025.11 Soma vs Royal ZvT @ Dominator | Starcraft Remastered" on the NamKraft youtube channel.
Royal opened 13cc --> mech.
Soma opened 2.5 hatch, and took their 3rd base around 6 minutes.
After taking some economic damage from Soma's mutalisks, and getting 5 factories up...Royal pushed across the map with goliaths+tanks, and took down Soma's main and natural.
Soma attempted to counter-attack, killed a good portion of Royal's SCVs, but was unable to stop the Terran mech army arriving at their new 4th base --> gg.
Pretty interesting game, it looked like it could go either way.
Generally don't like 13/14cc --> mech vs 2 hatch plays, as it gives map control to the zerg for a good portion of the early/mid-game...but Soma's 2.5 hatch looked like it gave Royal just enough time to get their army up and squeak out a win.
Perhaps 2 hatch --> early 3rd would have been a better choice against this particular Terran build π€·ββοΈπ€·ββοΈ
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EPT
