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! [G] Forge FE wall-ins on popular maps. - Page 3

Forum Index > Brood War Strategy
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boudiou
Profile Joined October 2007
France190 Posts
Last Edited: 2007-11-21 10:06:10
November 20 2007 16:57 GMT
#41
OK here comes my views on Luna the final. (since no one seems to post it)
This is far from perfect but I did my best.

Position 1:
Nuked better job done

Position 4:
Nuked better job done

Position 7:
Nuked better job done

Position 10:
[image loading]

*EDITED*
note: OK this one is far better than the previous one. Apart from the way out of your base you need one zealot at the bottom left of the ramp or lings may go through.
forge and nexus are fully protected. However there is still litle room to harass gas. (long way to go to do this)
clearly the bottom canon is a little bit weak but tell me what you think of this.



EDIT: end of ninja edits or so I hope

RIEN.
IntoTheWow
Profile Blog Joined May 2004
is awesome32274 Posts
November 20 2007 17:36 GMT
#42
Sorry but on some of those, lings can hit nexus because cannons are out of reach
Moderator<:3-/-<
boudiou
Profile Joined October 2007
France190 Posts
November 20 2007 17:47 GMT
#43
On November 21 2007 02:36 IntoTheWow wrote:
Sorry but on some of those, lings can hit nexus because cannons are out of reach

y I know ITW that's why I went for only one canon.
I'll update this soon but got to buy some food before everything closes.
RIEN.
SuperJongMan
Profile Blog Joined March 2003
Jamaica11586 Posts
November 20 2007 17:48 GMT
#44
Position 1 layout is terrible. That nexus is toast.

I dislike position 7 due to the exposed cannon.

I don't want to be rude, but I think the luna layouts are weak. ~_~

Position 4 is the only solid sim city I see.
POWER OVERWHELMING ! ! ! KRUU~ KRUU~
thedeadhaji *
Profile Blog Joined January 2006
39489 Posts
Last Edited: 2007-11-20 17:53:38
November 20 2007 17:53 GMT
#45
On November 21 2007 01:57 boudiou wrote:
OK here comes my views on Luna the final. (since no one seems to post it)


Look more carefully next time, WhatisProtoss posted good Luna setups in the previous page.
boudiou
Profile Joined October 2007
France190 Posts
November 20 2007 18:09 GMT
#46
On November 21 2007 02:53 thedeadhaji wrote:
Show nested quote +
On November 21 2007 01:57 boudiou wrote:
OK here comes my views on Luna the final. (since no one seems to post it)


Look more carefully next time, WhatisProtoss posted good Luna setups in the previous page.


Damn my bad. Dunno how I skip it. :/
feel free to nuke as much as u want.
RIEN.
ZerG~LegenD
Profile Blog Joined August 2007
Sweden1179 Posts
Last Edited: 2007-11-20 20:31:59
November 20 2007 20:18 GMT
#47
Here's a few reworks of boudiou's work.


Luna 5

[image loading]


This one is great =) The cannon isn't bothering the peons mining gas.


Luna 7

[image loading]


You can either place the second cannon to the right of the gate in order to protect the gas or next to the first cannon in order to protect it from an all in.
The path between the gate and the nexus is lingwalkable but is quite the detour.


Luna 1

[image loading]


The only thing that bothers me with this one is that the gas still isn't protected. Maybe it's worth it to move out the wall. That would make it worse vs runbys but the gas would get protected just as much as the rest of your base.
Even a broken clock is right twice a day
ZerG~LegenD
Profile Blog Joined August 2007
Sweden1179 Posts
Last Edited: 2007-11-20 21:00:46
November 20 2007 20:59 GMT
#48
Btw, I think I've figured out the general rules for the building placement.

The internal structure of the wall should be gate above forge if they are to be placed next to each others.

The gate can be placed above obstacles and to the left of walls (not water though).

The forge can be placed above and below obstacles, to the right of walls (not water though) and to the left of walls (not water though.)

Everything was tested on the twilight tileset.
Even a broken clock is right twice a day
ketomai
Profile Joined June 2007
United States2789 Posts
Last Edited: 2007-11-21 20:30:59
November 21 2007 03:32 GMT
#49
This is how I normally wall in on peaks of baekdu. The top one, I have seen pros use, however the bottom, just is my copy. It might have some flaws.

TOP--PEAKS OF BAEKDU

[image loading]





BOTTOM--PEAKS OF BAEKDU

[image loading]



Edit: Not sure why picture doesn't show, but I'll fix it later.

Edit2: Thanks humblegar =].
liosama
Profile Blog Joined October 2007
Australia843 Posts
November 21 2007 10:10 GMT
#50
holy shit
this thread is pro.

thanks
Free Palestine
evanthebouncy!
Profile Blog Joined June 2006
United States12796 Posts
November 21 2007 10:22 GMT
#51
I think it'll be a good idea if we can play some practice games where all protss do is make a formation at every single spawn Nat and zerg makes some ling and try to break it. Should be fun.
Life is run, it is dance, it is fast, passionate and BAM!, you dance and sing and booze while you can for now is the time and time is mine. Smile and laugh when still can for now is the time and soon you die!
boudiou
Profile Joined October 2007
France190 Posts
November 21 2007 10:29 GMT
#52
On November 21 2007 19:22 evanthebouncy! wrote:
I think it'll be a good idea if we can play some practice games where all protss do is make a formation at every single spawn Nat and zerg makes some ling and try to break it. Should be fun.

Yes this could be nice to know with how much speedlings zerg can get a breakthrough that bothers protoss economy. (something like 5-6 lings or more)
RIEN.
FatChicken
Profile Joined November 2007
China15 Posts
November 21 2007 10:54 GMT
#53
On November 21 2007 19:29 boudiou wrote:
Show nested quote +
On November 21 2007 19:22 evanthebouncy! wrote:
I think it'll be a good idea if we can play some practice games where all protss do is make a formation at every single spawn Nat and zerg makes some ling and try to break it. Should be fun.

Yes this could be nice to know with how much speedlings zerg can get a breakthrough that bothers protoss economy. (something like 5-6 lings or more)


3 lings is often all you need to really bother toss economy early game.. assume toss doesn't have more than 1 zealot.
I would rather be ignorant and happy than knowledgeable and sad.
humblegar
Profile Blog Joined October 2004
Norway883 Posts
Last Edited: 2007-11-21 11:38:37
November 21 2007 11:35 GMT
#54
On November 21 2007 12:32 nevake wrote:
...
Edit: Not sure why picture doesn't show, but I'll fix it later.


For the first image use "http://img510.imageshack.us/img510/2129/peakstopwallingk2.png", for second use "http://img214.imageshack.us/img214/7085/peaksbottomwallinzo9.png" in your tags. You get them from the "direct" field at imageshack below your image.
BluzMan
Profile Blog Joined April 2006
Russian Federation4235 Posts
November 21 2007 13:49 GMT
#55
Usually, people wall-in on Peaks with their pylon on high ground. I will do Peaks later, bit busy atm.
You want 20 good men, but you need a bad pussy.
ketomai
Profile Joined June 2007
United States2789 Posts
November 21 2007 17:50 GMT
#56
Ok I fixed peaks, but can someone make an LT wall-in picture xP (especially for 12 if it's even possible)
Chill
Profile Blog Joined January 2005
Calgary25977 Posts
November 21 2007 18:07 GMT
#57
Nice. A lot of these are really good, but I think a lot of these can be improved. Specifically nevake's Peaks. You should be considering the following when you place your Cannons, in descending order of importance:

- Are they blocked in by buildings (Forge, Pylon, Nexus, Gateway) to prevent an easy surround?
- Do they cover all buildings?
- Do they cover Probes?
- Can they easily be run by into my main?

In the top Peaks, both Cannons are fairly exposed and side-by-side, meaning they will easily die to 12 Zerglings. The top position doesn't even cover the Forge, meaning you will lose that to Zerglings. Once the Forge is gone your ramp is exposed, even though you should have Zealots by this time.

It's a similar problem for the bottom Peaks. The Cannons are exposed and not easily protected by Zerglings. This position is slightly better because the Forge isn't exposed.

There must be a better formation for Peaks. I realize it's tough because you need to have your Gateway and Forge blocking the ramp, but I think we can find (or come up with) something better.

On the top Peaks I'm not sure because that Forge is so exposed if you try to block the ramp. I would probably move the bottom cannon to the top left of the Nexus, at the very least, but I think this formation needs to be entirely redone.

On the bottom Peaks I would move the top Cannon to the left of the Pylon so it's more protected. I'd still be really nervous with that formation, and would probably use a Pylon or Cybernetics Core to block the Cannons from the top.
Moderator
ketomai
Profile Joined June 2007
United States2789 Posts
Last Edited: 2007-11-21 20:44:32
November 21 2007 20:35 GMT
#58
I see your point with the top (but I think it's more my mistake that the cannons didn't reach than anything else, so I re did it and I think the cannons reach now). I'll try to get a different top wall-in I have seen from a replay I have (and edit it into this post).

Edit: I think this is Kal's top wall-in from one of his replays. It has a wider choke, but the cannons are further apart.

[image loading]
ZerG~LegenD
Profile Blog Joined August 2007
Sweden1179 Posts
November 21 2007 21:13 GMT
#59
I think the gate on the bottom spot should be moved to atop the forge. That would limit the possibel angles of approach. And I think the cannons should be moved to below nexus for better protection.
Even a broken clock is right twice a day
humblegar
Profile Blog Joined October 2004
Norway883 Posts
Last Edited: 2007-11-22 22:51:15
November 22 2007 22:48 GMT
#60
Alright, so I'll stick my neck out and try this

First of all, I checked like 10 pvts with top players just now. And they don't seem to rely as much (based on those 10) on a perfect wall-in on peaks (unlike blue storm), especially not at 12.

In addition they often build only the forge and a cannon first, and they sometimes place the forge where I place the gateway (on 12), they don't have the luxury of placing it all at the same time and therefore have to choose differently. When expecting lings all of them built three or more cannons at 12, often two along the Nexus and one behind it leaving big holes otherwise, just slapping a gate under the forge. I am quite sure they have good reasons for this, but that did not stop me for trying to make something more along the lines of this thread.

Peaks 12:
[image loading]


Peaks 6:
[image loading]


Buildings and gas are covered in both positions (the gas cannot be surrounded by lings afaik here either). Minerals are mostly covered too. 12 is obviously harder to defend. With probes placed like shown the lings have to run around the Nexus (or attack).
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